The Austin-Evert rivalry

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by kiki, May 3, 2014.

  1. PDJ

    PDJ Hall of Fame

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  2. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Agassi is a rookie compared to Evert when Image is Everything is talked
    Evert had the perfect girl image since she was 16
    Maybe the smartest mind that went so far playing a pro sport
     
  3. suwanee4712

    suwanee4712 Professional

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    Sounds like Evonne hasn't changed, and that's a great thing. Tennis is a gift to us for the exercise, the competition, and the feeling of accomplishment that it gives to us. But Evonne Goolagong was a gift to tennis.
     
  4. PDJ

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    What a lovely last sentence. And what a gift :)
     
  5. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Kerry Reid was also great watching
    Owned peak Navratilova and beat the hell out of Austin well past 30
     
  6. Con_T

    Con_T New User

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    Kerry Reid was also great watching
    Owned peak Navratilova and beat the hell out of Austin well past 30


    Kerry Reid was an interesting player - very unusual sidespin forehand - however, she did not own any Navratilova, peak or not. The only win Reid had against Navratilova was in the semis of the 79 Family Circle Cup, losing the other 9 or 10 matches they played.
     
  7. The Sandbagger

    The Sandbagger New User

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    Injuries cost Austin a even greater career.
     
  8. suwanee4712

    suwanee4712 Professional

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    Thanks. I was worried that it sounded corny. But for Evonne, I think it fits.
     
  9. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Remember how Jimmy Connors dismantled Evert´s perfect girl poise after the torrid 1981 Wimbledon champions dance party?

    Connors was both funny, ocurrent and straight.I still laugh at that.
     
  10. Rochester

    Rochester New User

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    What is interesting to me is celebrating Connors' nastiness over Evert's decorum. Whatever every did in private, has she ever said anything bad abt Comnors publicly??
     
  11. PDJ

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    She's definitely criticised Connors in the past - bringing a girlfriend to her Wimbledon Final, and there is a story (I dont know if it's true, but hope it is) comparing him and Gueralitus.....
    But re his book, evert put out a dignified statement and, as far as I know, not discussed it again.
     
  12. PDJ

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    He hardy dismantled her reputation - given how she is still generally perceived- but his comment was funny. Less funny was how he tried to destroy her reputation in his book. Still, every one loves a comedian.... Or not.
     
  13. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    well, the only time Jimbo defended Mac...and it is vs his former
    girlfriend¡¡¡ great trio.
     
  14. PDJ

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    Evert herself said that she wd occasionally break rackets, swear etc in practice sessions but even her greatest critics surely agree that she behaved well on the court. Surely.....?
     
  15. Con_T

    Con_T New User

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    Yes, just who was the straw and who was the bottle? Enquiring minds want to know. 8)
     
  16. Con_T

    Con_T New User

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    Yes, just who was the straw and who was the bottle? Enquiring minds want to know. 8)
     
  17. PDJ

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    Apparently blonds do have more fun!
     
  18. JCat

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    Tell me more...

    What happened after the 1981 Champions Dance? What did he say?
     
  19. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    In the night after his 1981 Wimbledon victory,John Mc Enroe, after the big quarrel of his last press conference ( with fighting between tennis journalists and yellow journalists, the first defending him and the second attacking him) left Wimbledon without the mandatory Champions Dance.

    Chirs Evert, during the dinner took a micro and said something like " I feel offended by him not being here, since he is also an american but I can´t talk on his behalf because I am afraid I don´t have the same vocabulary" ( woww¡¡¡).

    Next day or so, while he was practicing ( can´t remember where), a journalist spotted Connors and asked Jimmy if he had heard about Evert´s speech and what happened at that infamous night.Connors, always eager to counterpunch just said " I have been on court enough time with Chrissie to know she can match vocabularies with John anytime" ( woww)
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2014
  20. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Vitas had a lot of experience , which is an asset on the issue
     
  21. JCat

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    Ok. Yes, I remember now. If I remember right, John said something later about Chris being somewhat of a phony. He was not happy that she took it upon herself to apologize for him. I don't think what Connors said was all that bad in that instance. He was a wee bit unkind to her in his book though.
     
  22. PDJ

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    Re 1981 Wimbledon Champions Ball- Evert, in her book, states that by the 'vocabulary' comment said she was not trying to embarrass McEnroe but diffuse an awkward situation where the men's champion had failed to attend. McEnroe took exception. I'm assuming he's over it now! But at the time it was front page
    news that he'd slighted The AETC so openly. And embarrassed his own country. Evert's speech was very well received at the time, and given the champions enjoyed the first dance (I think this has been discontinued?) McEnroe's no show was seen (then) as churlish at best. I believe the AELTC didn't offer him membership to the club which was normally automatic for The Champion.
     
  23. Con_T

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    Well, just to move to another tangent, who of Austin/Evert is the better commentator?
     
  24. PDJ

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    Personally I like them both. I would say Austin is more insightful but Evert funnier. Appreciate that like/dislike of commentators is a very personal choice. Of the women, my favourites are Jo Durie & Sam Smith. And I really like Wade who seems to treat it all as a jolly wheeze these days- and well she might!
     
  25. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Evert did a class act at 81 Champions dance

    Like former boyfriend never missed a single chance to boost the perfect girl of America image
    If Mondale,instead of Ferraro picks her at their ticket maybe Reaganism dies right there
    Best PR is not taught at Yale
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2014
  26. PDJ

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    There's PR.......& then there's muck-raking......:)
     
  27. Rochester

    Rochester New User

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    Once when McEnroe and Evert were doing commentary McEnroe whined about how evert had a better public image. Then he made a dig abt her dating life (which he would have never made abt a male). Then she retorted, "John, whoever I dated or didn't date, I didn't do it on court."
     
  28. chandler bing

    chandler bing Rookie

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    I do find it amusing that Chris and Tracy both ended up with three sons. Also that none of Chrissie's kids look anything like her.
     
  29. chandler bing

    chandler bing Rookie

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    I think they got on well. I remember them kidding around together at the WTA anniversary thing at Wimbledon a few years ago. Plus Martina had nothing but the kindest words for Evonne in her autobio.
     
  30. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    OK thanks...who could dislike Mrs Walkabouts?
     
  31. kiki

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    at the end of the day, what must be enhanced is how charismatic and unique the 70 and 80 champions were.To have this kind of trio thing with Mc Enroe,Connors and Evert is just unthinkable now.
    And there were a few more.
     
  32. PDJ

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    I love this anecdote - thank you for sharing.
     
  33. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Is it true that Mc Enroe and Mandlikova had a kind of short romance? it´s been too long away, don´t remember well but somebody mentioned it in a former thread.
     
  34. suwanee4712

    suwanee4712 Professional

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    No. They were friendly. They were caught on camera talking during the 84 ladies final. Mac was probably critiquing her taunts towards Martina. ;-)

    They took part in an exo in Ixtapa in 85. Hana got a lil schnockered and asked Mac a question that Tatum probably didn't care for. But it was very innocent.

    There is an article from early 86 contemplating a mixed doubles pairing between the two at a slam, which didn't happen. Mac said Hana was the only woman he would consider playing with. But I do remember him playing with one time gf, Stacy Margolin.

    As odd as it sounds, Hana was pretty tight with Tim Mayotte. Nastase was her favorite mixed partner, but she was also friendly with Cash and Michael Fancutt.

    She said in her book that she dated an unnamed Romanian player. But her most well known tennis romance was with Nigel Sears whose proposal she turned down. He went on to become more well known as a British Davis Cup player and Hantuchova's coach. Nigel teased her about being from a Communist nation, and his nickname for her was "Brezhie" obviously for Brezhnev.
     
  35. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    I doubt such a weak sense of humour could make any impression on her at all.
    I know she was fond of Australia,which she loved,so she was friendly with aussies ( Turnbull) but did not know about gentlemanTim,I always considered him the most polite of the élite players of his time
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2014
  36. PDJ

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    Didn't McEnroe win the French Mixed with Carillo?
     
  37. suwanee4712

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    Yes. They then played Wimbledon together and Mary got hit by Dennis Ralston. Mac blew up over it and said he would not play mixed again because the women were targets. He played a time or two with Margolin and then much later with Steffi.

    He also partnered with Pam Shriver in the 90 Hopman Cup against Hana and Mark Woodforde. Pam and Mac won, 6-4 7-6.

    We've gotten a bit off track, so consider this: We know Mac and Chris despise one another and Jimmy and John won't ever be friends. Could you imagine Mac/Austin vs. Evert/Connors?

    I would root for Mac/Austin but would give the nod to Evert/Connors based on experience together. And the weakest doubles player on the court would be Tracy.
     
  38. PDJ

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    Do you mean Tracy & Chris don't like each other? I get the impression McEnroe & Evert get on very well now.
    I too would give the nod to Connors & Evert. Although it would be more interesting if you swapped the pairs around!
     
  39. PDJ

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    Also Austin still plays doubles in legends events- saw her at Wimbledon a couple of years ago and her doubles has really improved. So all in all, it would be one hell of a match. :)
     
  40. suwanee4712

    suwanee4712 Professional

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    "Weakest" being a relative term. People forget that Chris is a really good doubles player. Watching the World Champ tournaments in Houston, I realized that Connors is very good on the doubles court as well. I guess I view Tracy as the least adaptable.

    But she has had some good results at the seniors events as you said. Certainly better than Hana had at least since she made the final in 2000 with Mima. But I think Hana just wanted her kids to see her play the last few times she played.
     
  41. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    I just can't imagine Lendl and Mandlikova
    What about Becker and Graf?
     
  42. PDJ

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    I guess Graf & McEnroe were the last truly great champions to pair up in a slam- & that didn't end well!
     
  43. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    When asked why she picked Nastase instead of Lendl, Hana just answered that Ilie was fun and Ivan was not and she played the mixed for fun.

    Incidentally, and this is a bracket, I don´t think any team gets close to Court/Newcombe.Its almost like playing two very strong male players instead of a male and a female.
     
  44. AngieB

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUm-fr4jC78

    Evert-Lloyd vs Tracy Austin 1980 US Open Semi-finals (I was there)

    I had almost forgotten how poor Tracy's body mechanics were when she played. That hiccupped service motion with an abbreviated "I" at the end. The forehand motion that was hungry to end. If I were a betting person (Jesus doesn't allow), I would say that her poor technical motions were the largest contributor to her back problems and early retirement.

    It was fascinating to watch a young American challenge Chris Evert. You could always feel the tension when they played. Tracy was so eager and youthful while Chris defending her position as the best player of her generation.

    I believe Tracy had a few more grand slam singles titles in her future before injury in 1982. She handed Martina Navratilova losses 4/5 times they played in 1981 including the US Open finals. Tracy always seemed to give Chris problems.

    Aside from Steffi Graf, Tracy Austin was the only younger player that realistically challenged the Evert-Navratilova generation.

    PTL

    AngieB
     
  45. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    delenda est.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2014
  46. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Austin was less talented than Andrea and,of course, Hana, who were the other two players who could challenge Evertilova, at least until Graf and Seles established themselves.But she was more consistent and hungry.

    with Hana, Evertilova never knew what to expect, but they certainly knew she could beat them anywhere and she was almost an only slams focused player.But didn´t have the focus of a number one.Tracy was more predictable but she pushed very hard for number one.

    I agree that it would have been great if Austin´s body had held on and Jaeger´s mind too.
     
  47. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    I think Tracy Austin really meant the biggest challenge in Evert´s sporting life.She was too old for Graf and Seles and she was a bit too young when Court and King and she dominated Goolagong except for a few matches.She had a mental edge over Navratilova except at Wimbledon , at least till 1981.But Tracy´s challenge overlapping also a challenging personal time for her put her entire perspective at the crossroads.She gave herself the right answer in 1980.

    Martina may have been tougher for longer time, but Austin was more dramatic in many more senses, and one of them was public image in the US press.
     
  48. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    It will never cease to amaze me that a die hard Evonne and Hana supporter finds himself in the duty to enhance Chris Evert´s Shakesperian dimension that is the ultimate test to her greatness.Apparently, no Chris Evert loyal will take that torch ( too much baselining over the years lead to feeling well trading groundies).

    But, her trascendental decisions, somewhere 1979 and 1980 made Chris Evert the champion that she ended up being in historical terms.Of course, had she retired when blattantly owned by Martina and Tracy she´d have gone down as the, maybe, leading 70´s female.But that challenge gave her 10 more years atop.

    Of course, the key to this is that , while she really never minded too much being beaten by HER OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN, Martina, she hatred being beaten by the clean looking, blue eyed californian teen.

    Why? easy to think, hard to swallow.

    Whenever Chris had doubts and personal biterness, she always looked upon Martina and figured out that " hey¡ what are my personnal problems compared to hers?".That led to both being like two communicating glasses, feeding each other not so much on courts as off courts.

    Of course, Tracy was a heavy burden to carry.Too many years as a kid lost on those Floridian dragging slow courts, hours of uncompromising sweat and commitment to reach that perfection,demanded firstly by dad ( Evert dixit) at those complementary levels of both image and play, and all of a sudden, this girl who excels at maths ( Chris herself never got to college while Austin skipped majors to prepare her exams¡¡¡) is beating me playing my game in a more open minded, wild way¡¡¡ This is like your own image being broken by the mirror; it is hard to cope with it.

    Yes, Chris could look at Andrea as her young sister, the ocassionnal little jerk that breaks your party but really, you get mad at her but she is not a reflection of yourself, you love her too much (Chris said after besting Jaeger at the 1980 W QF " She is a wonderful teen ", can you ever imagine Chris thinking about Tracy in the same way?).

    You know, after those years, maybe Tracy´s mission as an all time great was not to win all those USO and W titles that she probably wasn not prepared to win; it was to inhalate and propel new life into Evert´s career...and the more one thinks about it, the more one gets fond of Robert Lansdorp´s most genuine and charming creation.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2014
  49. DMan

    DMan Professional

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    Yeah, for about 5 minutes. Or maybe 5 months tops.


    No. The Evert-Navratilova rivalry was far more dramatic in an infinite number of ways. They were both vying for the #1 spot for close to a decade. At one time they were friends. Then they weren't. Both had very public images in the worldwide press for a long time.

    Tracy was a side show for a short period of time.

    And the last Evert-Austin match kinda sums up what the rivalry was about:
    Chris Evert def. Tracy Austin 6-0,6-0.

    Yes, a double bagel in the SF of the season ending Toyota Championships!

    Yup, it happened!
     
  50. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Chris Evert was spooked by Tracy Austin, because Austin was a more tenacious version of Evert. In contrast, when Evert looked at Martina Navratilova, she saw a very different person to herself, in personality and playing style.

    And legend has it that a young Austin saw Evert as her idol, but when she met Evert in person, she was very disappointed, and from then on said that Evonne Goolagong was her idol.
     

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