The best backhand ever?

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by theagassiman, Mar 17, 2009.

  1. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    and how many lefties possessing astonishing BH: Vilas,Orantes,Connors,Laver.

    In the early 20´s, Lacoste was considered the master of this stroke.
     
  2. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    Not that great of a parallel I'm afraid.

    Sampras had a much better serve, came forward much more than Fed and played in faster conditions (average length of rallies was shorter I would presume) while Fed achieved the majority of his success in what some consider one of the slowest era ever mainly from the baseline so his BH was picked upon a hell of a lot more and yet he still achieved comparable (many would say even better) success.

    P.S. Aren't we constantly reminded by historians that Fed is a baseliner? You chaps seem to want to have it both ways.
     
  3. geekydeveloper

    geekydeveloper New User

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    weintraub's 1h bh is one of the best I ever saw
     
  4. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    I know you want to be objective and unbiased but Federer has definately had better success than Sampras. No two ways about it. He's ahead in nearly every category.
     
  5. onehandbh

    onehandbh Hall of Fame

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    I used to think that Guga had one of the best backhands, but I no longer
    think so. It didn't hold up as well at Wimbledon, Australian and
    US Open.
     
  6. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    Heh, that was actually written in a somewhat sarcastic tone. That said I don't think the gap between Fed and Sampras is as big as people make it out to be.
     
  7. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    Sampras is underrated for sure. But the gap is probably quite substantial overall. Federer is more consistant, has won more across all the surfaces and has equalled near all Sampras' records or bettered them (other than the 6 YE #1's). The gap isn't a chasm but it's too big to jump across.
     
  8. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    I agree with you entirely. (Fed has certainly achieved greater success than Sampras.)

    My point was not that Sampras had/has a great backhand. He did not.

    My point was that the logic which presumes any great record equals all great strokes is flawed.
     
  9. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    This isn't about who achieved more between Fed and Sampras, point is they've had similar level of success but Fed's BH played much more of a key role in his success and was tested more due to the difference between playing style of two players and conditions in which they played.

    To put it simple, baseline strokes are more important/crucial for a baseline player than the one who gets way more free points on serve and goes to the net far more often (and it isn't even close).

    I agree with that in principle but the saying "He couldn't have achieved so much without having a good/great BH" has far more merit in Fed's case than Pete's for the reasons I mentioned above.
     
  10. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    The 1 handed bh is tougher for player in this generation because they play more from the baseline. Longer rally, more tested. The slow court, high bounce favors the 2handed bh but Roger still managed to hold his ground. You got many 1 handed bh players above Federer, but they were never challenged in today's vicious environment. I'm sorry but those 1handed bh players(Lendl, Laver, Budge, etc) were to exchange bh-to-bh rally against Murray, Nadal, Novak, Agassi, Nalbandian or Del Potro in today's conditions they would lose.
     
  11. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    I am certainly not biased against the one-handed backhand. I love the shot, and far prefer to see players use it. I believe it is more versatile and allows greater reach.

    And I use one myself.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2013
  12. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    1. Rosewall
    2. Laver
    3. Connors
    4. Edberg
    5. Borg
    6. Budge
    7. Agassi
    8. Kuerten
    9. Djokovic
    10. Lacoste
    11. Safin
    12. Nalbandian
    13. Ashe
    14. Lendl
    15. Vilas
    16. Kovacs
    17. Rios
    18. Mancini
    19. Mecir
    20. Orantes
    21. Murray
    22. Tilden
    23. Kodes
    24. Stich
    25. Wilander
    26. Kafelnikov
    27. Costa
    28. Korda
    29. Almagro
    30. Gasquet
    31. Becker
    32. Wawrinka
    33. Nüsslein
    34. Haas
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2013
  13. World Beater

    World Beater Hall of Fame

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    Kuerten's bh is sooo overrated.

    probably top 3-5 on clay.

    but not in the top20 on grass.

    its maybe top 15 on hardcourts..but that is pushing it.

    Kuerten's slice also is below average.

    His defense off the bh side also was sub standard.

    Great offesive bh especially on clay though.
     
  14. World Beater

    World Beater Hall of Fame

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    edberg's bh was very good but i dont think it was substantially better than stich or becker or even federer.
     
  15. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    I guess you believe all of these 33 players have better bh return of serve than Roger. Even better than Hewitt's bh return too.
     
  16. Flash O'Groove

    Flash O'Groove Hall of Fame

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    Almagro, Gasquet and Wawrinka have all great one handed back hand, but they need to play far from the baseline to use it. That's something which have to be considered when you rank a stroke. Federer and Davydenko have in my opinion better backhand that these three, especially if we take into account that they play very close to the baseline. I admit their footwork and anticipation play a huge role in it, but still.

    Look at at Davydenko-Gasquet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFf1bvBWqrM Look at it. Gasquet stand further form the baseline when he is on the offensive than Davy when he is on the defensive.

    I wish he didn't had these physical issue, my dear Davydenko...
     
  17. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Edberg´s is more efficient than Kuerten´s on fast surfaces.Kuerten is, maybe, top 10-15 but never top 5.
     
  18. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Haas and Kohlschreiber are also great one handed.
     
  19. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    Rats! I thought the havarti reference was quite clever.

    Have you ever smelled old havarti?
     
  20. Feather

    Feather Hall of Fame

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    Hoodjem's only intention in bumping this thread is to convince everyone that Roger Federer doesn't figure not even in the top thirty. I don't have any problem with that, it's a democrazy and everyone has the right to say something.
     
  21. Feather

    Feather Hall of Fame

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    I was wondering how the backhand great Rosewall deal with Nadal's topspin on a clay court with a right handed backhand. Roger had problems with balls that went above shoulder height and Roger was 6.1. Rosewall is 5.7! I don't intend to say that Roger's backhand is better than Rosewall. I don't comment about things that I don't know and whenever I comment I at least try to be objective..

    I am NOT remotely suggesting that players from the past sucks compared to todays greats. I believe greats are greats irrespective of eras. However on clay, after watching all those matches between Roger and Rafa, I really wonder..

    These single handed right handed backhanded players never played anyone like Rafa with a crazy topspin directed to their back hand with his insane forehand. They were never tested like Roger..
     
  22. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    You are completely right on that but think the other way for a minute
    How could Nadal and his weak kness resist the torture of that deep and extremely low bouning sliced, right handed BH?
     
  23. Flash O'Groove

    Flash O'Groove Hall of Fame

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    Nobody follow me on Davydenko's backhand? I'm not sure he as one of the 30 better backhand in the history of the sport, but I'm certain that he had a better backhand than Gasquet, Almagro or Wawrinka. Those are nice looking shots but they achieved nothing with it.
     
  24. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Feather, Why do Federer fans always assume that serious posters have an agenda against Federer???
     
  25. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

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    Connors for me as well in terms of best backhand ever, but I think Edberg had the best volley ever!

    The best looking backhand I've seen is Henin, when she made a come back, I saw her play live for the first time; and when she started warming up, I'm guessing lots of us had never seen her play live, and there were literally gasps from the crowd at how great her backhand looked:shock:
     
  26. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

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    I think Davydenko's backhand is amazing. Watching it live, definitely the best ball striker I've seen, he hit it so far in front of himself, it looked remarkable. In terms of a 2 hander, definitely one of the best in the last 20 years!
     
  27. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    1. Rosewall
    2. Laver
    3. Connors
    4. Edberg
    5. Borg
    6. Budge
    7. Agassi
    8. Kuerten
    9. Djokovic
    10. Lacoste
    11. Safin
    12. Nalbandian
    13. Ashe
    14. Lendl
    15. Vilas
    16. Kovacs
    17. Rios
    18. Mancini
    19. Mecir
    20. Orantes
    21. Murray
    22. Tilden
    23. Kodes
    24. Stich
    25. Wilander
    26. Kafelnikov
    27. Costa
    28. Korda
    29. Davydenko
    30. Almagro
    31. Gasquet
    32. Becker
    33. Wawrinka
    34. Nüsslein
    35. Haas
     
  28. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

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    ^^^ A great list now, good to see you've agreed and added Davydenko!
     
  29. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Easy answer...just read your posts and kiki.
     
  30. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    Here's a tip .......federer fans don't assume so ...its when they have an agenda against federer , we state it .....

    Here are some "serious" posters (who post frequently in this forum ) , who do not have an agenda vs federer :

    krosero
    Moose Malloy
    timnz
    NonP
    BTURNER
    Gizo

    etc etc ...
     
  31. President

    President Legend

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    Andre Agassi should be #1 on this list.
     
  32. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Maybe I disagree with the order of a few names, but the list of Hoodjem is very good.he is great at that, no doubt.
     
  33. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    1. Rosewall
    2. Laver
    3. Connors
    4. Edberg
    5. Agassi
    6. Budge
    7. Borg
    8. Kuerten
    9. Djokovic
    10. Lacoste
    11. Safin
    12. Nalbandian
    13. Ashe
    14. Lendl
    15. Vilas
    16. Kovacs
    17. Rios
    18. Mancini
    19. Mecir
    20. Orantes
    21. Murray
    22. Tilden
    23. Kodes
    24. Stich
    25. Wilander
    26. Kafelnikov
    27. Costa
    28. Korda
    29. Davydenko
    30. Federer
    31. Almagro
    32. Gasquet
    33. Becker
    34. Wawrinka
    35. Nüsslein
    36. Haas
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2013
  34. dennis10is

    dennis10is Banned

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    Every pro that I've seen live have great shots to me. only a small portion have something idiosyncratic but they accomdate that into their strokes.
     
  35. Feather

    Feather Hall of Fame

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    Of course you have every right to vouch for the authenticity and credibility of the list but what is really pathetic is his timing to bump the thread. There goes a discussion in another thread where Bobbyone engages in a discussion with few Roger Federer fans about weaknesses in Roger's backhand and Hoodjem bumps the thread and promptly delete Roger's name which was there in his early list. I realize that there are old people who have all the years of experience and life behind them but still act as clueless immature crybabies or kids.

    Anyway, I can expect a lot of strawman arguments coming my way. Roger fans want Roger's name to be there in the GOAT list of everything. Roger fans are too touchy that they react to mere mentioning of his name from a random list generated by few anonymous posters.

    However there is some parallel between the so called historians and the immature kiddish fans of Roger Federer. They place Rod Laver in every goddamn list in either first or second as if by a ritual and since we kids haven't seen Tennis those days or don't have any access to the video links of those times, it makes your job pretty easy since you can also use the trump card of age. The bottomline is we may be young compared to you guys, but we are not dumb and have little intelligence to see through the blatant bias
     
  36. Feather

    Feather Hall of Fame

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    Oh no don't let the collective wrath of historians fall on you!

    Andre Agassi is a mug compared to the 5.7 mighty Ken Rosewall whose back hand slice alone was 80 mph! Andre Agassi got his slams by serve and volleying in his service games as well as in his opponents service games. He never used his backhand in his career.
     
  37. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Calm down it is hard to pick the best when it gets to top five so I see no bias
    AA certainly has a top tier BH so it may be a pubic hair what separateshim from Edberg, Budge, Laver, Rosewall or Edberg and all merit top tier
    At that level it becomes subjective
    What is not is Fed having all time great Bh, he has a great Fh that deserves top tier but not top backhand at all
    I talk from what I saw live and Laver, Rosewall and Comnors are the very best I have seen qith Edberg and AA very close
    Maybe Budge, Lacoste and Kovacs were just as good
     
  38. Flash O'Groove

    Flash O'Groove Hall of Fame

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    I agree with you. Fed's backhand is not in the top 10. But not in the top 30? Wawrinka? Almagro? Ok their backhand play a more important role in their games, but still, you can't compare players who need to be far from the baseline to be comfortable with someone who stick to it!
     
  39. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

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    I didn't spot that Federer wasn't on that list. I would put Federer's backhand at about 25th on that list above.
     
  40. World Beater

    World Beater Hall of Fame

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    if we go by surface. this is what i would say...

    Grass: federer has a top 10 bh.
    HC: Fed has a top 20 bh
    Clay: Fed has a top 25 bh.

    On AVG. I would say Fed would figure TOP 20.
     
  41. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    I have melted in admiration for Federer.I think you just don´t pay enough attention to my posts.
     
  42. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    How nice Kodes is in an all time great list¡¡¡
     
  43. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    Good question.

    Would they back up or take it on the rise? (I think Connors always took Borg's big topspinners on the rise.)

    Hoad used alot of topspin; so did Laver, Tom Okker, and Vilas. What did Muscles do with those?
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2013
  44. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    slice them back to the angle and come in to hit a mid court amazing half volley waiting for an amazing short, overrolled, top spin passing shot, and anticipating it, stepping one foot forwards so to lean on the right foot and kncok out a deep FH volley that Hoad lob´s deep into the baseline but Ken intercepts that with a small leap and places an angled and sliced smash to the middle of the right court.Point and set Mr Rosewall.
     
  45. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Yes, old Rosewall had already to deal with top spin shots (Hoad, Laver, Okker, Borg, Vilas). He fared rather well against them.
     
  46. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    His BH return off a big booming serve laid at the oncoming´s volleyer feet.he did it mechanichally, like it was the easiest thing to do.I haven´t seen anybody do that in that way, except Laver and Mac when Mac was just playing out of his mind..and Nastase, too.
     
  47. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

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    How do we decide on the best double vs best single backhand ever as the best overall backhand? Or do we must keep them in their respective niches? Best forehand is much easier to decide.
     
  48. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    You're right. It's easy!

    Pancho Segura's forehand was two-handed.:wink:
     
  49. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

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    how many double handed great forehands are there?
     
  50. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    In late December 1976 Rosewall beat Vilas 6-2, 6-2, 6-0 in Melbourne.

    1977 was probably Vilas's best year.
     

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