The biggest hole in Raonic's game

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by LBR1, Aug 16, 2012.

  1. LBR1

    LBR1 New User

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    I'm saying it's his thumbs up greeting to the crowd after winning.
    Compare that to Tsongas.
    Can we come up with something better for him?
    Maybe 10 pushups.

    Otherwise, not seeing any holes.
     
    #1
  2. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Didn't they say the same thing about Kraicheck and Phillipousis?
    The only obstacle for them were their own bodies, at 6'5" and 195 lbs., prone to injuries after a few years near the top.
     
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  3. Ripster

    Ripster Hall of Fame

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    His biggest hole is his backhand. It's just kind of a meh shot and he can miss it quite a bit.

    He also needs to work on his return of serve. He doesn't break serve enough.
     
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  4. kishnabe

    kishnabe G.O.A.T.

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    If Raonic can achive as much as Philpousis and even better Kracijek....then that is great itself barring all the injuries he might get his way.

    He a bit boring at times, though when all his cylinders are firing he is okay to watch.

    Just hope to see a miracle improvement in his movement and keep working on his ROS.
     
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  5. smoledman

    smoledman Legend

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    Backhand is quite weak and ROS.
     
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  6. DolgoSantoro

    DolgoSantoro Professional

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    Everything but his serve

    JK, I'd say his movement in general. Groundstrokes seem ok overall, and as a big guy he's always going to be slow but I'd say that in this era of tennis on slower surfaces the fact that he can't really grind if he has to will hurt him I think
     
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  7. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Lots of offensive players don't bother with defense, choosing instead to hold their own serves, and saving their energy so they can hold their own serves.
     
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  8. MTF07

    MTF07 Semi-Pro

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    I'd say Raonic needs to significantly improve his return of serve, backhand and volleys/net game.
     
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  9. LBR1

    LBR1 New User

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    That's just brutal. Not seeing his movement as a liability, at least up until the top 7 perhaps. Maybe his first serve consistancy. But he has a great second to back it up.

    The ROS is improving. Don't have the stat to show he breaks less than other players. I just think in comparison to his hold game, the return game looks weaker because it is of course. But weaker than average? Not sure.

    His points are pretty quick, so how will that break his body down? Half the points are 1-2 it seems.

    Starting to like watching him, when he gets on a roll especially.
     
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  10. cluckcluck

    cluckcluck Hall of Fame

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    He's not very fun to watch. He plays a little flat (energy). Backhand could have a little more sting though. He returns decent but it's nothing to keep his matches short.
     
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  11. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

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    ROS is the weakest part of his game. His movement is nothing to write home about but it has improved a little in a short amount of time. He needs to focus now and keep on trying to get more wins against bigger players as he has the last three days. That is what will get his confidence flowing and get his ranking up higher.
     
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  12. DolgoSantoro

    DolgoSantoro Professional

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    The first part was a joke, albeit not a very funny one :), I like raonic as well and his potential is obvious. As for not being a liability until the top 7 I slightly disagree, but I see your point. My post was made while thinking of what is holding him back from the top 10 and I do think that his movement and agility currently aren't enough at that level. I do apologize though, i didn't mean to offend
     
    #12
  13. Zildite

    Zildite Hall of Fame

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    He is ranked 60th in % return games won, so not amazing.
    Had his fair share of injuries already, short points or not.
     
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  14. SStrikerR

    SStrikerR Hall of Fame

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    He said that Sampras was his idol, which is why he tries to keep an outward emotionless appearance while on the court. He's not flat.

    Also, you can't say his biggest weakness is everything but his serve and forehand. I mean really, you think he'd make it to the next level if EVERYTHING improved? No kidding, so would a lot of other guys. Tennis is all about holding serve, which he can do. One slip by his opponent, and they get broken. Bam, set over. If he has a good enough backhand to keep him in rallies until he gets a forehand, or can improve his movement to run around those backhands, hes fine. He can dictate with his forehand, and that's how he'll manufacture breaks. At his height, movement can't be relied on. It's just not natural for him, therefore he needs to compensate. Instead of extending rallies, he needs to shorten then. His backhand doesn't have the finishing power; something a limited amount of guys do have. No amount of work on it will make it offensive enough. He needs to find tactics that give him forehands where he has time to set up.
     
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  15. Rjtennis

    Rjtennis Hall of Fame

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    I think he moves pretty well for a big guy. He looks like he is Nadal compared to someone like Isner. Milos can scramble and get himself back in a few points.
     
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  16. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Tall guys can indeed run fast...UsainBolt.
    But changing directions are not their specialty.
     
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  17. kishnabe

    kishnabe G.O.A.T.

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    If he can move like Delpo one day...he would be some much more fun to watch.
     
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  18. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Why not go another inch shorter, and move like Murray?
    Or another 2 inches shorter, and move like Fed.
    Or another 4" shorter, and move like Ferrer.
    Or head the other direction, Dr.Ivo's not the quickest guy on tour.
     
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  19. kishnabe

    kishnabe G.O.A.T.

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    Del Potro is a giant....and how can he move so beautifully at times? Raonic thanfully isn't as big as Karlovic!
     
    #19
  20. Mighty Matteo

    Mighty Matteo Semi-Pro

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    Imo, as others have said, he just needs a solid backhand (which he already has) to allow him to attack with his forehand. The biggest two places where he needs to improve are his movement and especially his return. if he make his movement just a bit better and really make his return a weapon, he would rise through the rankings.
     
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  21. TTMR

    TTMR Hall of Fame

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    That would be a conservative and defensive strategy. An offensive strategy would be to attack the opponent's serve, being aggressive on the return, as well as endeavoring to hold serve with authority.
     
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  22. Joseph L. Barrow

    Joseph L. Barrow Professional

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    His biggest problem is consistency from the baseline. His groundstrokes are pretty big, but not so big and well-placed that he can rip winners like Del Potro, and he sprays a lot of balls.
     
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  23. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Almost all the big guy strategies involve serving big, ripping off winners to hold serve, then when they return, they either go for broke, or more likely, just hit the ball back and hope the server makes a dumb mistake, at which point big guy pounces and pummells the ball for a winner.
    Call if offensive, selective offense, or whatever, that's the big guy strategy starting with Sampras.
     
    #23
  24. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    His movement and quickness are the biggest holes in his game,and he can be inconsistent from the baseline. Too bad his game is like the tennis form of Ambien. He has no personality and is a total boring snoozefest.
     
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  25. LBR1

    LBR1 New User

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    Maybe he lulls his opponents into a sleep state so he can pounce?
    But sure I'd like to see a little more personality. A smile, some enthusiasm perhaps. But none of the big guys have much for some reason.
     
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  26. LBR1

    LBR1 New User

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    Thanks for that.

    I couldn't find that particuar ranking but I looked at the big guys I'm most familar with and compared two stats, not including yesterday but
    Games that were broken, and games that were able to break, and the margin. Milos has the lowest % for broken and a better break % than Isner.

    I don't know but would think that the greater the margin the higher winning % that is likely. Of course the ranking depends on which matches and torneys that are won, not just overall winning.

    But Raonic's margin is just a few % point below the top big guys, and better
    than Isner.

    In order of last tour ranking:

    Thomas Berdych
    13% broken
    25% breaks
    12% margin

    Del Potro
    13% broken
    26% breaks
    13% margin

    John Isner
    9% broken
    11% breaks
    2% margin

    Milos
    7% broken
    16% breaks
    9% margin

    Querry
    14% broken
    17% breaks
    3% margin
     
    #26
  27. sunof tennis

    sunof tennis Professional

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    Tell that to Michael Jordan or LeBron James. Kobe alsocould do it well to when he was younger. I believe they are 6'6'', 6'8'' and 6'7'' respectively
     
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  28. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Now that's where you are totally off base.
    While Kobe, LeBron, Durant, and of course Jordan can move really quickly and change directions well FOR A BIG GUY, no way can they stay with the KevinJohnsons, IsiaThomas's, CrisPauls, or TonyParkers in the game.
    The reason you see the big guys blow past the little quicker guys is the hand check and body check before the move. Push a guy 1/4 step back, you're free to move past.
    A little guy blows past those big guys, but the big guys hand check, reach in, and body up the little guys when playing D.
    Look at the size of NFL cornerbacks. NOT ONE, who's a coverage specialist, is over 6' tall, and most are closer to 5'9" tall.
    NFL draws from a pretty big pool of athletic talent.
    While RandyMoss and LarryFitzgerald can run as fast and jump higher than any CB, they need a preplanned route, while the CB is adlibbing and constantly changing his direction to REACT to the reciever's moves.
     
    #28
  29. LBR1

    LBR1 New User

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    After Murray and Tip topple?

    Now what do you say?

    Really amazing performance against both these top players.
    He didn't look like he was playing patsy cake and used his size and
    strength and movement to his advantage. And both matches were
    enjoyable to watch.

    Made some new fans I'd imagine ...
     
    #29
  30. Magnetite

    Magnetite Professional

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    His movement is a big weakness right now.
     
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  31. LBR1

    LBR1 New User

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    It may be a relative weakness but he moved exceptionally well in both matches, especially forward. Watch his latest matches if you haven't seen them. Or later today in the Japan finals ...

    Funny how he'll have Niskori (sp) in the finals and practically the next day the first round at Bejing.
     
    #31
  32. Evan77

    Evan77 Banned

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    movement and BH.
     
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  33. フェデラー

    フェデラー Hall of Fame

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    I guess that big hole in his game didn't matter against Murray...
     
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  34. VPhuc tennis fan

    VPhuc tennis fan Professional

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    Change to the 1h BH. Go for it. You have Fed as an example.
     
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