The Donald

Discussion in 'Pro Match Results and Discussion' started by jaggy, Jul 13, 2011.

  1. jaggy

    jaggy G.O.A.T.

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    He gets a wild card to the Aptos challenger and loses in the first round to the mighty Alex Bogdanovic (no stranger himself to GB wildcards).
     
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  2. Tammo

    Tammo Banned

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    So, he lost...what's wrong?
     
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  3. jaggy

    jaggy G.O.A.T.

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    Nothing is wrong, you make a great point, sorry to add to any discussion on this forum.
     
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  4. FedererBestTennis

    FedererBestTennis Professional

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    Oh Donald...I think Nike is going to drop him VERY soon.
     
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  5. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    Alex Bogdanovic WON a match?? What's got into HIM??? :shock:
     
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  6. jakemcclain32

    jakemcclain32 Banned

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    Donald Young faced him, that's why. He'll lose in the second round, probably.

    And that kid's case really saddens me. He is an example of a stark refusal to let go of the kid, and let him fly. He needs real instructors, real discipline, and a real work ethic.

    His results in tournaments, and in wild cards no less, shows he has none of the three.
     
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  7. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    Does this mean Bogdanovic is now British number 1?
     
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  8. Dgpsx7

    Dgpsx7 Professional

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    Did Donald Young ever get a real couch or are mommy and daddy still..
     
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  9. kiteboard

    kiteboard Hall of Fame

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    Another example of a careless punk who does not show up on time, work hard, treat the game with respect, respect others or himself.
     
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  10. atatu

    atatu Hall of Fame

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    #10
  11. RedWeb

    RedWeb Semi-Pro

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    #11
  12. Cormorant

    Cormorant Professional

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    I'd say Bogdanovic's best tennis surpasses Young's, going on the matches they've played against top 100 pros so far.
     
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  13. jakemcclain32

    jakemcclain32 Banned

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    #13
  14. jakemcclain32

    jakemcclain32 Banned

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    Wanna know what's sad? Most any of us here could play Donald Young, and while we're not going to win the match, we could probably take 2-3 games off the guy based off his errors alone.
     
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  15. atatu

    atatu Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, not so much, you don't know what you're talking about on this one. You might get one game over two sets.
     
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  16. jakemcclain32

    jakemcclain32 Banned

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    You truly sure about that?

    I never said any of us would beat him. Kid's still a beast athlete, so we have to give that to him. I just meant that, match after match after match, he goes for the same shots, makes the same errors, double faults the same amount, etc... If it comes up to us, we barely win a point on the guy, but the guy is flat out his own worst enemy.
     
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  17. Bilbo

    Bilbo Semi-Pro

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    He's one of the top 200 professional tennis players... IN THE WORLD. Most of us on here couldn't get 3 games off the #20 junior player in our country.

    Donald Young would bagel all of us without breaking a sweat.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2011
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  18. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    Put it this way,he's the only British player with a positive H2H v Donald Young! :)
     
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  19. jakemcclain32

    jakemcclain32 Banned

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    I don't think people are understanding my point I'm making.

    There's not a chance in hell ANY of us are going to beat him. He IS top 200 in the world. His serve is upwards of 125+. He's a physical specimen.

    But I'm just saying that the guy has faced guys like Nadal and Hewitt, and made tons of errors. He's faced guys like Blake and lost because of errors. When he's been on his horrible losing streaks like he's been on in these qualifiers and wild cards, he makes these same mistakes. I'm not saying anyone on here is BETTER than Donald Young, because that's a numbnuts idea in itself. I'm just saying that, no matter who he plays, he plays the same way, makes a ton of errors, double faults a ton, and gets into his own head.

    Now if he curbed the mistakes, every single one of us here would be lucky to get a point. That's just what I'm trying to say. I once got whacked in a tournament 1 and 1 by a guy WAY WAY past my level(I was 18 at the time), and the reason it was 1 and 1 instead of a double bagel because, in those two games he lost combined, he had 4 double faults and four errors.

    Donald Young's problem, flat out, is his head more than anything else. He's still an elite player compared to the world, but he makes a LOT of mistakes(and the majority are unforced), and that's my point. What's keeping him from making mistakes against a lesser player?
     
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  20. fps

    fps Legend

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    The fact that one of us amateurs has no weapon that could hurt him in any way, so he doesn't have to worry about anything other than hitting the ball, which he does miles better than any of us. He would barely lose a point against any of us.
     
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  21. Max G.

    Max G. Hall of Fame

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    Those are all pretty much better than him; no surprise that when he loses, he loses the same way.

    So, have you ever seen him win a match easily?

    I'm asking a serious question. Because he DOES win matches. You just don't see how he looks when he's playing someone worse than him, because Donald Young is about as bad of a player as you can be while still making it to the big tournaments sometimes (i.e. bottom of the top 100).

    Look at his match record on atptennis.com. At the challenger level, he's actually a quite consistent player. http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Yo/D/Donald-O-Young.aspx?t=pa . He gets a lot of wins in challenger and qualifying tournaments, just not at the ATP level.

    Just a few weeks ago, Donald Young beat Greg Jones of Australia 6-1 6-0. Greg Jones is ranked 225 in the world. Are you saying that you can do better against Donald Young than the 225-ranked player in the world?

    The fact that against a lesser player, he doesn't need to go for as much to hit winners. His regular rally shot - which is a puffball at the top-100 level - would suddenly be a blistering heavy ball when facing someone ranked a few hundred spots lower.

    Against top-100 players, he can't really do anything in a rally - not enough pace consistently. But those same shots that look like neutral or defensive shots against top 100 players are actually aggressive and powerful when facing someone ranked 400.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2011
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  22. jakemcclain32

    jakemcclain32 Banned

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    Max, you make great points.

    1. I have a great link that I posted a couple days ago. Guy about his same level, and Donald Young made the same mistakes of the upper echelon I mentioned.

    2. The 6-1 6-0 win? Congrats to him. I'd LOVE to watch that match and see if he limited the mistakes. I bet he did.

    That's the only point I'm making. Ok, so our shots wouldn't be as dangerous to him, so those mistakes would be limited. What about his serve? He double faults a ton.

    Hey man, I respect your opinion and everyone else's opinion here. Very smart tennis minds here. I'm just stating something I know about that guy right now. I just said that his mistakes alone could lose a couple of games, not that any of us would actually even get a point off of him on our volition.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2011
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  23. Max G.

    Max G. Hall of Fame

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    Against someone who he'd never lose a rally to, he could just spin his serve in. No need to go for anything big on it - thus, fewer double faults.

    Against people close to his level, he has to go for more on his first ball, thus leading to more errors.

    ...besides, he doesn't even double fault *that* much, especially not enough to give amateurs any sort of edge. In his first round at Wimbledon which he lost to Bogdanovic, he had 2 double faults per set. (3,2,2,1, specifically). At the Australian open this year, he had 3 double faults in 3 sets. In the Australian Open qualifying matches, he played 3 matches, each of which he won in straight sets and had 3, 1, and 3 doublefaults in those matches, respectively.
     
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  24. jakemcclain32

    jakemcclain32 Banned

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    Eh, it's a nice debate to have. I'd like to see Donald Young succeed so that there's not even a thought to debate this.
     
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  25. bjk

    bjk Hall of Fame

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    Just a few weeks ago, Donald Young beat Greg Jones of Australia 6-1 6-0. Greg Jones is ranked 225 in the world. Are you saying that you can do better against Donald Young than the 225-ranked player in the world?


    Sort of a rhetorical question, isn't it? Don't let the tv fool you, the pace is totally different at ground level.

    Let's not be so hard on the Donald. Give him another two inches and he would be a beast. I watched him practice at the Legg Mason and his ball had a nice solid thwack that comes from having a really pure stroke. There's nothing wrong with any part of his game, and his volleying is up in the top 1% of pros, I would say. He just doesn't have the size or the big weapon. And he's not 6', I'm pretty sure of that.
     
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  26. Rhino

    Rhino Legend

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    I used to find Donald Young's career kind of entertaining in a way (Ok this loss to Bogdanovic is still quite funny), but now I am actually beginning to feel a bit sorry for the poor guy.

    These losses year-in year-out have got to hurt.

    However, as far as Alex B is concerned, good on him, I hope he wins the event.
     
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  27. SoBad

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    Kinda funny and sad how the Donald owns the Muzza yet gets owned by the Bogdan. He's gotta fire the Doyomama coach and pull himself together already.
     
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  28. Max G.

    Max G. Hall of Fame

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    It's not like he's losing every match he plays.

    He actually consistently wins matches. Despite the occasional first-round-loss at a challenger, on an average week he wins more matches than he loses. If you look at http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Yo/D/Donald-O-Young.aspx?t=pa and include challengers and qualies, his record is like 35-16. It's just that he plays mostly on the challenger level, and there he's near the upper echelon of challenger players (so he gets wins) but he's near the lower echelon of ATP-tour-level players, so when we see him at ATP-level events he mostly loses. His record at the ATP level for this year is 6-9, which means that at below-ATP-level events his record is, I believe 29-7.

    He's settled in to his career. It looks like he'll be one of those guys that permanently stays in the just-below-100 range, with occasional forays into the top 100 when he gets a few good wins. It's not a glamorous career by any means, but it's enough to make a living.

    I don't feel sorry for him. I'm not jealous of him either, but he should do okay. He's not going to live up to his hype as a great player by any means, but it's not like I feel sorry for the plenty of other players that have careers like that. Do you also feel sorry for Michael Russell, or George Bastl, or the many guys at the level of Russell and Bastl who *don't* have that one extra big moment.
     
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  29. SoBad

    SoBad Legend

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    Winning a Jr slam, especially Wimbledon, is a big deal and historically a good predictor of professional success. I cannot believe you are bringing Michael Russell and George Bastl into The Donald discussion. Is it the hat thing?
     
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  30. jakemcclain32

    jakemcclain32 Banned

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    I wouldn't even compare him with Michael Russell. Young has a lot more talent than Russell does.

    Russell's that guy who's had a modicum of success, but he'll be telling his grandkids that he once had a 4-2 lead on the #1 guy in a major before blowing it.
     
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  31. Max G.

    Max G. Hall of Fame

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    Well, Young had much more promise than those two, but looks to have ended up in a similar place. Career-high 60 for Russell - Young's high is somewhere in the 70s, if I remember correctly. Good record in challengers, occasional wins in the big leagues. Russell had his one moment of glory.

    Bastl also topped out in the 70s, had a few years in the roughly 100s. Young is better than that I think.

    Paul Goldstein is another guy of that similar level. Lots of success in challengers, mostly losses in the main draw.

    I wasn't thinking of hats at all. I was thinking of players who topped out with rankings just above 100. At that level, you're winning lots of challengers but not winning many main draw matches.
     
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  32. Bhagi Katbamna

    Bhagi Katbamna Hall of Fame

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    completely agree. He could beat all of us playing with his right hand. Unfortunately for Young, he can't make a living playing against us.

    Also, Demetrius Walker didn't grow taller than 6'3" but Donald is the average height of a tennis pro.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2011
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  33. Emet74

    Emet74 Professional

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    Not as much as you'd think. Here's a list of past winners: some familiar names, but pretty amazing how many I don't recognize at all . . .
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wimbledon_champions#Junior
     
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  34. timeisonmyside

    timeisonmyside Semi-Pro

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    Well Bastl did have that one extra big moment at the Big W in 2002.
     
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  35. Dgpsx7

    Dgpsx7 Professional

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    This video is more painful to watch than rush hour 3
     
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  36. Rhino

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    It's just that he was primed to be the great new American tennis player. The future of American tennis. I'm sure he and his parents believed it too. Spending the rest of his career playing challengers with the odd tour level match must feel like a big disappointment. I don't think Michael Russell had these expectations. He wasn't busy winning junior slams, etc and getting big time sponsorship in his teens.

    Meanwhile Alex Bogdanovic (GBR) d. (q)David Martin (USA) 6-1 6-2 :)
     
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  37. Rob_C

    Rob_C Hall of Fame

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    I dont really see any similarities at all. DY's been a fairly successful pro. Yeah he could/should be doing better, but he's had his moments.

    Like others have said, he's been fairly successful at the Challenger level, and this yr he's been getting wins at the tour level.

    He's come thru qualies in a few tour level events, including a few Slams, and he's been getting wins consistently this year at the tour level.

    That guy, whoever he is, hasnt done anything at all in basketball.

    To the other guy who thinks he could get 2-3 games off DY, just goes to show you have no clue what you're talking about.

    As for the issue of the WC into Aptos, that was just b/c he didn't enter by the deadline. You should have noticed he was the #2 seed on the draw. Also, he won Aptos back in '07, and got to the finals last yr, so it's not like he cant compete. Bad day at the office, for whatever reason.
     
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  38. SoBad

    SoBad Legend

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    Yes, because it is just a predictor, not a guarantee (which is impossible in sports) of any kind. In fact, it is probably fair to say that early/jr success is the best available predictor of future/pro success. I just don't think it's quite fair to compare an admittedly unstable pro performance of a recent Jr. slam titlist to those of a couple of near retired clown journeymen.
     
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  39. jakemcclain32

    jakemcclain32 Banned

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    Hey Rob, AGAIN you do not read what I said.

    I said, and it can be my opinion as much as I want it to be, that Donald Young's mistakes would cost him 2-3 games against most anyone. I did not say any of us could beat him, and I did not say it would be any of our spectacular shots that would kick his ass. If you go by talent, and his abilities, he murders us. Be lucky to get a point from the guy.

    But he gets in his own head, and that is all I was saying.

    It's obvious some people don't read into the whole picture. Maybe I'm wrong, but that was the point that was made.
     
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  40. Serveand...

    Serveand... Banned

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    DY is about 5'9, I saw him standing next to Robredo whos 5'11 and DY was a good 2" shorter, and at 160lbs hes a lightweight.
     
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  41. Rob_C

    Rob_C Hall of Fame

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    I think my reading comprehension is just fine, thanks.
     
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  42. jakemcclain32

    jakemcclain32 Banned

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    No it's not. I said BASED OFF HIS ERRORS ALONE!

    I never said any of us would outhit him, or kick his ass, or even get a point by our own volition. I'm saying HIS OWN MISTAKES!

    I've also said I can easily be wrong on this(and odds are I really am), but I'm not afraid to make a theory like that.
     
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  43. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

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    DY would wipe you out 6-0 6-0 clean.
     
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  44. dcdoorknob

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    People are reading what you wrote just fine. They just think that what you wrote about most of us getting 2-3 games from Young is ill-informed flat out wrong, to the point of being laughable and worthy of ridicule.

    You can put HIS OWN MISTAKES in caps as often as you like, but people (myself included) have already read that and still think your opinion is completely out of touch with reality.
     
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  45. But any of us would be so easy he wouldn't make those mistakes. We would just watch winner after winner fly by.
     
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  46. Big_Dangerous

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    He'd lose a few points because he's likely to double fault or make a few unforced errors through two sets. But yeah most of us would get double bageled maybe win one game against someone like Donald Young.

    Watching that tiebreak between Young and Guccione, it's clear that aside from their serving, there really isn't a whole lot else in their games that makes me think they aren't just a few 4.5 level guys playing, if that.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2011
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  47. jakemcclain32

    jakemcclain32 Banned

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    I actually think Donald Young has the tools to really make something of himself. Too many things in the way now, but I do.

    All I'm saying is that, time after time after time in these matches(And I'm watching these matches), it's the same thing. I don't see DY getting outplayed necessarily, I just see him beating himself time after time. It doesn't matter if it's the #1 player in the world, or challengers. Same thing. That's where my theory came into play.

    I haven't seen enough of Guccioni to make the 4.5 assumption, other than that hideous tiebreak, but I don't think DY's a 4.5. He's playing like one, but I don't think he is one. He just needs to get out of his head.
     
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  48. Rob_C

    Rob_C Hall of Fame

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    Another ridiculous statement. 4.5??? You don't think he's a 4.5??? Don't be so generous!!

    And you've been watching his matches recently??? Aptos, Newport, etc??
     
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  49. jakemcclain32

    jakemcclain32 Banned

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    Rob, I've seen one match of Guccioni's. If I saw others like that, then I'd agree.
     
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  50. jakemcclain32

    jakemcclain32 Banned

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    And DY has a ton of tools man. His problem is his head.
     
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