The Doping Thread

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by jamesblakefan#1, Feb 14, 2013.

  1. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    Let's have a semi mature discussion about doping. We all know guys are doing it.

    This is probably going to be remebered as the doping era in all sports, not just tennis. It's so easy to go undetected and cheat, as we've seen already.

    Let's start with these two articles to ponder.

    http://espn.go.com/tennis/story/_/i...answers-increased-ped-questions-espn-magazine

    http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8904906/daring-ask-ped-question

    And I ask, why as fans can't we name names? Of course we can. Why does there have to be a positive test to indict someone, when so many have been shown to cheat and admitted it without one?

    I have my own suspicions about some top players, and it's borderline irresponsible for us as fans not to. Without naming names, I say that half of the top 20 players in the world now are doping. Again, I have no proof, just my own suspicions and the BS detector being too damn high. Is it wrong to convict guys without proof? Maybe. But I think its time for us as fans to stop holding back and face the fact that tennis is just as dirty as every other sport seems to be today.
     
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  2. President

    President Legend

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    I agree 100%, I think many top players are doing it and IMO it's obvious which ones are on the juice. Errani and Ferrer are definitely the most blatant examples on both tours...they actually have known association with a doping doctor and have extremely physical styles.
     
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  3. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    Errani is clear as day. Going from 40-50 range journeywoman to making slam semis and finals overnight. Schiavone is another one that I'd add BTW. WTA has a doping problem too, that should not be ignored.
     
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  4. cknobman

    cknobman Legend

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    Personally I'd feel like Djokovic is one that sticks out to me. Career quitter to tour iron-man who actually gets quicker and stronger the longer the match goes!!!

    I say Nadal as well. Not currently but in the past which is why he has so many continual health problems today. I know his medical problems are not an effect from doping but I do believe his medical problems were suppressed by doping in the past.
     
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  5. jrs

    jrs Professional

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    I think it's time to legalize these performance enhancing drugs.

    I don't think you can compete at professional levels in sports without PED's these days.
     
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  6. citybert

    citybert Professional

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    I think there has to be some allowance of PEDs as many of the things that were not allowed 30 years ago are now ok to use.

    Also we need to think long term in 10-15 years there will probably be gene therapy available and I don't see how they can possibly test for that. Sure they could keep a repository of some sorts but there will always be a black or secondary market like they have with these new age doctors and designer drugs.
     
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  7. Djokodal Fan

    Djokodal Fan Professional

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    I would appreciate if Mods can move or merge all doping allegation posts or threads to this one. Its easy to completely avoid the thread rather than selectively ignoring few posts from trolls
     
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  8. xan

    xan Professional

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    amen to that
     
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  9. mariecon

    mariecon Hall of Fame

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    I know this isn't about tennis but...today Oscar Pistorius has been charged with murdering his girlfriend. I was so shocked when I heard this but now come to think of it, it makes one wonder if he's on PED's because everyone knows the term "roid rage" and apparently he has a violent temper. Anyway, I know this is kind of OT but I just was thinking it so I thought I'd put it out there.
     
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  10. fps

    fps Legend

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    I've yet to meet a South African who didn't have a violent temper, it is a point though. Such a tragedy, that poor girl, what on earth possessed him.
     
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  11. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    #11
  12. citybert

    citybert Professional

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    Yup she got it from drinking Acai berry thin and WTA acknowledged that it was very possible that she got it from that, and they still banned her anyway.
     
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  13. librarysteg

    librarysteg Hall of Fame

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    I fall on the denier side. It's not that I don't believe doping might be happening, but I'm not up for thinking about it and ruining my current enjoyment of the sport and my favorites by constantly thinking, "what if?" I'm fully prepared for a day down the road when something big will likely break, but until then I'm content to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. My biggest fear is that there will eventually be one or two scapegoats that take the fall while dozens or hundreds go unpunished. I would hate to see that happen. If there's doping and they decide to crack down on it or a big scandal breaks, I'd much rather see them clean house and out everyone and attempt a fresh start. It's not right to have one doping poster boy for the entire sport.
     
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  14. Vrad

    Vrad Semi-Pro

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    Well, if only she was making out with a dude then she would have been fine, ala Gasquet. Or do you need to be endorsed by a top seed to be allowed to get away with excuses?
     
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  15. mariecon

    mariecon Hall of Fame

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    Acai is a banned substance?
     
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  16. Vrad

    Vrad Semi-Pro

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    I am almost certain that a few players at the top are doping.

    I think that also explains the very curious inability of anyone below the top 4 to even challenge the top players. Maybe it's because they lack the resources to use PEDs in a way which allows them to remain Uncaught.
     
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  17. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    I have been of the opinion for awhile that a large ratio of international athletes in any sports involving strength or endurance to a strong degree are doing some kind of doping. I believe the doping testing across sport is stronger now so the drugs athletes use are not as heavy as the 80s, hence why all the female track records are still from the 80s, and the 70s and 80s East German swim records didnt begin to fall until the 2000s. However a large percentage of international athletes still dope, just with less powerful or sneakier drugs than before.
     
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  18. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

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    So the "rumors" were true. There have been rumors of her failing a drug test for weeks now.

    She is dispensable, she is not a big enough star for most people to care. It is the ITF/WTA's way of sacrificing a scrub so that it appears that they are doing their job with respect to doping.
     
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  19. mariecon

    mariecon Hall of Fame

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    well as usual they take down a relatively low ranked player and think people will assume she's the only one doing it because she's the only one they've caught. Wrong! Why is it we only hear about journeymen/women getting caught? Do people honestly believe they're the only ones doing it? If they're doing it, you can bet top players are as well. They're just better at masking it or else the ATP/ITF turn a blind eye to it because they're the moneymakers.
     
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  20. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

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    110%...............
     
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  21. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    Including Fed?
     
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  22. roberttennis54

    roberttennis54 Semi-Pro

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    I agree with this 100%. It seems all sports have entered the great doping age. People need to say something about it. It is too obvious that most top sportsmen are dopers. Tennis is one of the worst, because it is killing the sport.
     
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  23. tipsytennis

    tipsytennis New User

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    Don't know if you guys know Federer recently told in an interview that he feels there isn't enough drug tests done, and before the Australian Open he didn't even have a blood test. He reckons drug testing isn't as common now as it was many years ago.
     
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  24. citybert

    citybert Professional

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    Here is the espn article

    http://www.espn.co.uk/tennis/sport/story/193152.html
     
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  25. mariecon

    mariecon Hall of Fame

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    I said top players. I didn't mention any names did I?
     
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  26. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

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    Of course!
     
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  27. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    Yep, and Fed IS a top player isn't he? Let me guess, you think he's the exception right? Pathetic.
     
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  28. roberttennis54

    roberttennis54 Semi-Pro

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    We have discussed this before, but you don't have to dope to win. We have discussed this before, but there is the example of Darren Campbell the British sprinter. I am fairly certain he has never doped and he has won many medals at international and Olympic level. Federer maybe a doper, but Federer and Tsonga are the two least likely in the top 10, or at least they have not crossed the threshold where it is certain they are dopers.
     
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  29. President

    President Legend

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    Federer has a much less physical playing style than the other top players, shows more signs of fatigue than them during matches and plays shorter matches.
     
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  30. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    So? Who's to say he doesn't use PEDs to achieve this?

    My opinion is that it's all a load of old bollox as you can be the fittest guy in the world and still be ***** at tennis, which is, first and foremost, a game of skill.

    I don't believe any of the top guys are doping. I'm sure it happens - but not at that level.
     
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  31. roberttennis54

    roberttennis54 Semi-Pro

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    Well of course, but when you have skills then being the fittest in the world makes a huge amount of difference. Not saying that Murray is not a doper and Berdych is, but there is a huge difference in the effort they put in hitting the ball. In most of Murray's long matches you can see when he gets tired, the pace and power of his shots drop. Berdych on the other hand has superior technique to Murray and can still blast winners tired or not. Make Murray even fitter and he it makes a difference.

    If Murray was as fit as Nadal/Djokovic then perhaps he would have won the Australian Open final.

    All top 100 tennis players are immensely skilled. The same with most sportsmen really.
     
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  32. roberttennis54

    roberttennis54 Semi-Pro

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    #32
  33. mariecon

    mariecon Hall of Fame

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    you are pathetic because in every thread where I post you put words in my mouth. I prefer to ignore you from now on and you can ignore me too please. You are so annoying. But of course that's your game isn't it, being a troll and all!
     
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  34. DropShotArtist

    DropShotArtist Banned

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    I don't see why that is pathetic. Isn't it possible that Fed is not doping while Nadal is? Heck, even the reverse is possible.
     
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  35. PSNELKE

    PSNELKE Legend

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    Errani, Schiavone, Stosur are definately using some stuff on the womens side.

    On the ATP Tour there are quite a few suspicious ones as well.

    As for Djokovic.
    The guy used to have a gazillion allergies and intolerances until 2009/2010.

    - Allergic rhinitis
    - Roasting in the sun like a turkey
    - several torn muscles
    - gluten intolerance
    - and and and

    From 2005-2009 he was a retirement Queen, quitting like crazy due to ridiculous injuries.
    The guy could barely last a fifth set match when things weren't going his way.
    Now since 2011 he plays one marathon match after the other and during the post match interview he looks like he can last another 5-6 hours on court.
    Seriously such an immense change can't be explained with a healthier lifestyle and CVAC.

    All of the TOP guys might be taking some crap, but Novak takes the cake for me when it comes to a "who would you mention first" question.
     
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  36. mariecon

    mariecon Hall of Fame

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    Wasn't it in the on-court interview after the AO SF where he said he could have played another 2 hours? Nothing like rubbing his opponent's nose in it.
     
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  37. norbac

    norbac Legend

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    The way Djokovic says the current system for catching dopers in tennis is working well and does not require change raises red flags in my opinion.
     
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  38. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    Totally agree. Nobody is as suspicious to me as Djesus. His increase in performance and stamina are just far too great to be explained away by a change in diet.
     
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  39. tipsytennis

    tipsytennis New User

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    I dont think Doping is as common as people think, to many people woulnd't risk their careers. Maybe people who are getting to retirement age may do as they dont have much to lose but young players 18-23 probably dont do it.
     
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  40. Mike2228

    Mike2228 Rookie

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    I could starve myself for 3 months and not be as skinny as Fed.
     
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  41. CCNM

    CCNM Hall of Fame

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    I heard that some basketball player got busted for using a banned substance-sad. Also sad to hear about O. Pistorius (another one bites the dust....) Are they still saying that the girlfriend sneaked into the house to surprise him for Valentine's day?
     
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  42. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    Yeah, not to turn this thread to a 'hate on Novak' (or any one player for that matter) party, but there's just too many red flags for there at least not to be suspicion IMO. Mysterious doctors, unheard of training techniques, combined with fitness that he'd never had before? Too much of a good thing IMO.
     
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  43. Hood_Man

    Hood_Man Legend

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    I'm waiting for the revelation that these guys are going to test positive for horse DNA. Everything else is...
     
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  44. jrs

    jrs Professional

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    Best Drug Quote: Angela Bailey former Canadian Sprinter
    "If you can take a drug that would make you better at your job - would you take it?"

    Worst abusers - Hollywood Screen & TV writers!
     
    #44
  45. Vrad

    Vrad Semi-Pro

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    I think if Fed was doping, it would either have been during his recovery from his back injury, or recently to keep playing at a high level at his age. But even the age thing doesn't seem likely because Federer has almost certainly lost a couple of steps, and power. He is also fatiguing earlier.

    It's still possible he is doping, but as others have said, he is the least likely amongst the top players to be doing so, based solely on superficial evidence (which is all we have).
     
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  46. mariecon

    mariecon Hall of Fame

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    "IOC to hold conference on World Anti-Doping Agency's role"...

    - "The IOC has decided to hold a conference on the role of the World Anti-Doping Agency amid increasing tensions over how the fight against performance-enhancing drugs is being run."...

    ..."The Lance Armstrong scandal has triggered a nasty public feud between WADA and the UCI, cycling's governing body and a member of ASOIF. WADA has also singled out football and tennis for not doing enough testing."...


    http://www.ctvnews.ca/sports/ioc-to...-doping-agency-s-role-1.1158608#ixzz2L5cBy2YQ
     
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  47. Bjorn99

    Bjorn99 Professional

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    The top four minus Nadal are in my researched humble opinion, on organic steroids which are tremendously expensive. Nadal is most likely on synthetics as he is notoriously cheap. And thus, he gets injured constantly cause he is on the cheapies. Federer, in my humble opinion, is on the very best of the best.

    No one outside of the top four could afford the organics, its about 15k a month. But man oh man its worth it. Angela Bailey was on synthetics, her provider, was cheap as well.

    This is my opinion, and its for entertainment value only. I seek safe harbor.
     
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  48. YouCantBeSerious

    YouCantBeSerious Banned

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    Why don't you first try to figure out how you can advance technology to be able to prove somebody is doping?

    Because with nothing more than a hunch, accusing somebody of doping (or even suggesting so) publicly sounds to me like an injustice.

    Do you like people accusing you of crap you haven't done based on their intuition and without any solid proof? Let me know if you do, and I'll proceed by accusing you of several hienous and unnatural acts.
     
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  49. jrs

    jrs Professional

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    Organic steriods are they detectable

    Are these organic sterioids detectable, also are they damaging to the body?

    I don't think there is a foolproof way to keep people from taking Performance Enhancing Drugs - what if a person naturally produces more testostrone without taking anything - how will this person prove it's natural.

    I think if you legalize it and then control it - it might be safe for the athletes.
     
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  50. YouCantBeSerious

    YouCantBeSerious Banned

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    These so called "organic" steroids are nothing more than the implantation of goat testicles into the recipient's organism. It's been done before.

    Testing from now on should include a gonad count to make sure cheaters are not benefitting from "goat power".
     
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