The Doping Thread

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by jamesblakefan#1, Feb 14, 2013.

  1. clayqueen

    clayqueen Hall of Fame

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    As he refused to give a blood sample we'll never know what the tests might have revealed.

    Maybe that was the idea of giving them the diplomatic passport!
     
  2. cjs

    cjs Semi-Pro

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    Steroids such as nandrolone (the steroid Korda was suspended for) are commonly used to speed up recovery from injury. Hence the skinniest tennis player on the planet remained the skinniest player on the planet.

    To be honest I have no problem with players using steroids to recover from injury. Its not performance enhancing for tennis - its just gets them back to full fitness more quickly.
     
  3. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    Tennis is as much about endurance as its ever been. Especially with surface slowing and practically no off season. At the top levels especially, fitness, not skill, can separate a player from being top ten to top twenty to top fifty to not even top 100.
     
  4. swedenparty

    swedenparty Rookie

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    Good one:)
     
  5. thejackal

    thejackal Hall of Fame

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    Expect a few more players to get pinched in the next few months. Seems like ARod's roid doctor has treated tennis pros as well
     
  6. JRAJ1988

    JRAJ1988 Hall of Fame

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    So because he has an opinion you practically label him a conspiracy theorist? Democracy reigns supreme hey?
     
  7. citybert

    citybert Professional

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    baseball is doing very well on the financial side of things. Not sure tennis could suffer 2-3 top ten players like braun and arod testing positive. Altho the finances of the Atp are not really publically known.
     
  8. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Personally I think that the introduction of biological passports will make great headways.

    Realistically, more out of competition blood and urine tests are needed. The current program tests far too infrequently IMO. And AFAIK the current in-competition program doesn't even test players before matches.
     
  9. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    I'm looking forward to this -- after Operation Puerto this really shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.

    The cleaner our sport is, the better.
     
  10. Day Tripper

    Day Tripper Semi-Pro

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    I recently listened to a interview with an expert on sports doping on sports talkback radio describing what an athlete would need to do to run a long term successful doping program - he may as well have been describing nadal's career. scary stuff.
     
  11. cjs

    cjs Semi-Pro

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    troll more.
     
  12. mistik

    mistik Hall of Fame

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    Maybe all of them are dopers but it is pretty clear that no one puts it on to your eyes as clearly as Djokovic. Mentally and physically fragile player turns out to be the ıron man on tour with a change of diet or something.
     
  13. britbox

    britbox Rookie

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  14. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

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    "Maybe?"

    To even ask the question--convicting without concrete evidence--means you should be comfortable with finding yourself facing prison for nothing more than loose-lipped, baseless BS.
     
  15. FreeBird

    FreeBird Legend

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    Mentally fragile??? You started watching tennis in 2010? Djokovic had saved match points multiple times to win. He always had a good stamina (thus pretty good record in 5th set even before 2011). Most of the matches in which he retired were 3rd or 4th set retirements and were due to his asthma not stamina related. Tommy haas is also gluten free. Ask him about its advantages. Even he is hale at 35. :mad:
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2013
  16. Nathaniel_Near

    Nathaniel_Near Talk Tennis Guru

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    Relax folks, ...
    Well recently Mr Nole has been rather weak mentally at important moments of matches. He has a habit of double faulting at important moments and losing his will to really fight it out to the bitter bitter end, and perhaps the most costly instance of this was him basically losing his mind against Nadal after 'the incident' in set 5 of their RG 2013 semi. He blinked and he missed (Nadal may and probably would have won anyway).
     
  17. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    [​IMG]
     
  18. R A F A Y H L N A D A H L
     
  19. LotusTang

    LotusTang Rookie

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    [​IMG]
     
  20. moonballs

    moonballs Hall of Fame

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    Only butthurt Nadal fans will point finger at Djokovic only. With the rather haphazard enforcement effort tennis nobody is really off limit.
     
  21. swordtennis

    swordtennis Hall of Fame

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  22. citybert

    citybert Professional

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    There is still no test for gene doping. Although WADA hopes to have one by end of this year.

    One of the main reasons for lack of testing in general and in other sports is that it's cost prohibitive and not practical. And to top things, its not an exact science, not as simple as is it pos or neg? They need to examine all the levels and results for every test and then order additional tests on top of that at times.
     
  23. Devilito

    Devilito Hall of Fame

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    I have a solution, allow doping and drugs. It would help keep players healthier, recover faster and protect themselves from injury. Why supress the evolution in science? These rules are really backwards thinking
     
  24. citybert

    citybert Professional

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    Agree, and it will probably slowly happen. Cortisone shots were once considered cheating and still is in cycling I believe. Now it's ok to do use in most sports.

    Yes either allow or test to the most rigorous standards, not just have the illusion of testing. (Not talking specifically about tennis here)

    Athletes should not be role models everyone is their own person.
     
  25. FreeBird

    FreeBird Legend

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    Consuming drugs, in long run, is detrimental to a person's health. You can see the case of lesser life expectancy of WWE players. So, it is ethically not correct to allow players to indulge in such activities. :|
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2013
  26. Devilito

    Devilito Hall of Fame

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    That's an ignorant statement. You need more education when you use an all encompassing monolithic term like "drugs" then use the example of locker room steroid abuse in the WWE. Even the term "steroids" is a poor choice as there are thousands of different "steroids" that function differently, have different side effects, are synergetic with different other drugs and are dependant on proper dosing. Oxygen is required for life, but too much will kill you. Ban oxygen?
     
  27. Devilito

    Devilito Hall of Fame

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    Agreed. Sports is entertainment. Athletes are not a role models for health. It's not healthy to ram yourself into another human like in football. It's not healthy to play tennis for 6 hours every day in 5 set matches. It's not healthy to run marathons causing your body to catabolize it's own muscle mass for energy. It's not healthy to lift 500 lbs over your head. Modern athletes are at the extreme of human endurance and punish their bodies daily. It's not something that's healthy to begin with.
     
  28. *Sparkle*

    *Sparkle* Professional

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    That's all very well, but the way you phrased it suggested you were OK with a free for all. If you mean that some drugs currently on the banned list should be allowed, that's a different sentiment altogether.
     
  29. Smasher08

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    These passages made quite a few things click into place for me:

    Unlimited stamina and instantaneous recovery all explained.
     
  30. FreeBird

    FreeBird Legend

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    Sorry monsieur, pardon me for my intrusion. But do you think our ambitious young brigade can put a check on themselves and rely upon 'proper' dosing only?
     
  31. Devilito

    Devilito Hall of Fame

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    let them do what they want. It's called being a free human being. You don't have the moral authority to tell anybody else what they can or cannot do with their own body.
     
  32. swordtennis

    swordtennis Hall of Fame

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    Interesting you focused on that section in the article becuase that is the area I first noticed something going on in Tennis. Notice this topic is not discussed much in the media.
    The multiple 5 set marathons showing little signs of fatigue and players actually getting stronger as the matches progress.
    Maybe many do not remember the days when a player played a marathon match and he was shot the next round. That used to happen almost all the time. Sure better training they say and evolution. Evolution is a biological process that does not occur over a few years.
    Now some players I feel could play seven 5 set matches in a major and win the whole thing!

    I am in the middle on doping. I am for it and against it. I have friends in the industry and can get the highest grade of anything and everything I want if I asked. Even EPO. :twisted:
     
  33. cjs

    cjs Semi-Pro

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    My "troll more" response was to a person who implied Nadal was doping without any argument to support it. The poster may as well have written "Hey, I just got this evidence Nadal is doping but I'm not going to share it with you". That's trolling. Its done to provoke a reaction.
     
  34. swordtennis

    swordtennis Hall of Fame

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    ^^
    Ah ok no problemo thanks for clarifying! :)
     
  35. *Sparkle*

    *Sparkle* Professional

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    By "allowing" it, you are effectively forcing everyone to do it. You are pressurising aspiring tennis players to use drugs with uncertain long-term health effects, or know they'll never be able to compete. Sensible parents won't let their children play tennis competitively, in case they decide it's a good career. Greedy parents will be shoving pills down their kid's throats in the hope they become a cash cow for them.

    How is that giving people free choice?
     
  36. nippurr

    nippurr New User

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    If you don't want to be called a troll maybe you could identify the talk back radio program you are referring to. If not I am on board with referring to you as a troll.

    What you are trying to do, impugn the reputation of another with no hard evidence, is the "scary stuff."
     
  37. bullfan

    bullfan Legend

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    Tennis players used to hit the club scene, Pete Sampras drank coke on court I believe. Fitness and diet have definitely evolved, as well as the teams players have including physios. Borg was the first player to bring a coach on tour. Times have changed. Players have a team now, and yes that makes a difference.

    Can't say players dot use epo, but I can't say they do either.

    Name me one player that has played a 5 setter in every match and won a GS.

    Players burn out generally after 2 5 setters in a GS.
     
  38. sundaypunch

    sundaypunch Hall of Fame

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    This is exactly what most of the teenagers posting here don't understand.
     
  39. swedenparty

    swedenparty Rookie

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    To everyone who thinks tennis pros dope, I have a question:

    Did you ever dedicate a minimum of 3 months to a performance sport, training 8 hours a day from which 4 would be conditioning under a strict diet regime, and fitness specialists, somewhere in the mountains(high altitude)?
     
  40. cjs

    cjs Semi-Pro

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    I have no idea what the point of your post is...
     
  41. moonballs

    moonballs Hall of Fame

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    Nadal fans should take note of this argument in the unlikely event he is exposed.

    Doping is not cheating; it is a statement for one's freedom.
     
  42. swordtennis

    swordtennis Hall of Fame

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    I agree with you. No accusations on my part. Doping does not make the player the top pros are mind blowing athletes on a level beyond beyond.
    It is an industry lets be truthful a market and the planet at this point in history runs on an economic system based on maximizing profits. For better or for worse.

    But I still feel a player might come along and play 6-7 5 setters and win a major. :)
     
  43. bullfan

    bullfan Legend

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    I wasn't clear about 5 setters. I don't think players can do more than 5 setters I a row. Yes, it may seem like doing those 2 in a row against the last 2 opponents is hard to swallow, but, there's also adrenaline. Once a player is in a match it can be another story. Nadal said that when he knew he was going to play Fed in AO 2009, he may need to take a MTO. Does that make him realistic, and using the rules, or a player abusing the rules? I think that call generally lands on who you're a fan of, Fed or Nadal. And in 2009, Nadal was only 23, which is pretty young.
     
  44. LaneMyer

    LaneMyer Rookie

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    While I appreciate the Libertarian slant, it'll never happen. No organization is going to open itself up to certain litigation when the ATP/WTA are slapped with lawsuits by families whose provider bit it from liver, kidney, heart etc failure like players from the NFL....and I think we know the ATP/WTA doesn't have anywhere near the coin the NFL has. Besides that, the designer PEDs that players are using today haven't been around long enough for anyone to understand what they do to the body in terms of side effects and future health issues. We know scores of athletes use HGH across all sports. There are some recent studies that patients who have been legitimately prescribed HGH are developing leukemia. It's not certain that HGH was the cause, but it's a fluid development. That doesn't even take into account some more well known issues with HGH leading to heart and kidney failure among a myriad of other concerns.
     
  45. swedenparty

    swedenparty Rookie

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    The point is that if that most who blame tennis players for supernatural endurance(Nadal, Novak....) are lazy fatasses themselves. And probably jealous should I add.

    I haven't seen yet one person who practiced *** hard like those guy do and blame them for doping.


    You do whatever I said in my post...you will find out on your own skin how is it possible to play 5 hour matches, be so fit and run so fast, all it takes is superhuman hard work and dedication, and that's how champions are born.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2013
  46. rajah84

    rajah84 Semi-Pro

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    Attitudes like this support my theory of Devolution.
     
  47. cjs

    cjs Semi-Pro

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    Ok, fair enough. I agree with you on this.

    So many silly people on TW who think if someone has a 6-pack stomach or a vein in their bicep it must be the result of PEDs, rather than the fact the player in question is a naturally athletic person who does physical exercise for hours on end nearly every single day of the year.

    Also, as someone who has done resistance weight training for 22 years I know how muscular it is possible to get without taking PEDs.

    Most people on TW need to get away from the keyboard and actually go play some tennis.
     
  48. Beacon Hill

    Beacon Hill Professional

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    It's interesting that, like Lance Armstrong, none of the 14 recently-suspended MLB players ever failed a drug test.
     
  49. LABtennis

    LABtennis New User

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    Of course these athletes are talented and highly disciplined in their profession. But here's the thing - PEDs WORK! Barry Bonds was a naturally awesome baseball player and a far better talent than either Marc McGwire or Sammy Sosa. Yet he had to sit back and watch these lesser ball players obliterate baseball's most hallowed records. So look what happened when Bonds started taking PEDs - he obliterates their records.

    Same thing in any sport - PEDs can make a good player great and a great player an all-time great. They can enhance nearly everything one uses in athletic competition, not just strength, speed, and endurance, but even superior eye-tracking movements - that could help one see 90 mph fastballs better for hitting a baseball or take the ball earlier in tennis.

    There is no hard evidence any particular player is taking PEDs until the evidence is revealed. But one thing is UNDENIABLE - PEDs make better athletes. Barry Bonds on PEDs is simply BETTER at baseball than a clean Barry Bonds. Nadal on PEDs would simply be BETTER than a clean Nadal. A PED Federer would simply be BETTER than a clean Federer. A PED Djokovic would simply be BETTER than a clean Djokovic. Now Wayne Odesnik on PEDs probably does not even come close to the level of a clean Nadal, Federer, or Djokovic. But the PED Odesnik will be measurably better than clean Odesnik.

    It's because PEDs work so well that people are suspicious when athletes do seemingly inhuman things against their rivals who are at or near the same level of competition. Sure those guys could roll out of bed and destroy the average TW poster in competition. But to dominate their rivals who are at the same level? Hard to see how that is possible without "help" ESPECIALLY if their rivals have "help" as well.
     
  50. furryballs

    furryballs Banned

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    mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm gluten
     

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