the FH is over-discussed

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by luvforty, Dec 31, 2012.

  1. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    so with a larger sample size, you have adjusted your conclusion?
     
  2. luvforty

    luvforty Banned

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    yeah I am just presenting what the data is saying.... why not.

    haven't changed the view that the FH is over-discussed.... but top 4 vs. top 100 is telling different story on which one is THE MOST important.... in any case it's not rallies.
     
  3. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    I'm not saying your are wrong, so hopefully we can just comment from our
    perspectives, but

    For me, while I believe the 2ond serve is very important for consistency, confidence,
    and as a foundation for the 1st technique...I think the stats showing the importance
    winning pts from second serves (each way), demonstrates more about how
    the ground game is going. Imo most rec matches are decided by the ground game.

    What is happening on 1st serve pt results tell me much more about how
    dominant a persons serve can be or how good a great returner is.
    If the returner is amazing like DJ, he will get a lot of 1st serves back in play and
    make the server work much harder to hold and if the server is amazing like
    Roddick, then he will serve many aces and svc winners for easy pts on 1st serve.

    With rare exceptions like Sampras (even him to an extent too), on the second
    serve pts the big svc advantage is dulled and most can rtn well enough to
    get into the point. On Second serve pts we get a look at longer pts on a more
    equal footing where the other strokes will decide things.

    I don't think there is a person who knows tennis that does not realize that for
    a pro to get to start the point with a massive overhead (1st serve) and a mulligan (2ond)
    would be a huge advantage at their Serving level.
    If someone didn't know or doesn't agree, please post on your opinion. I don't
    see where stats did anything here but confirm what we all knew...not just me.

    That said, only a vaulted few have really set themselves apart with the serve
    in a major way vs their peers. Given you are already doing that if you have that
    ability, I expect short of making amazing gains with your serve (rare), having a way
    better than avg Fh is the next best & most attainable thing. It can be your
    main rally shot and your main mid ct attack shot. Many can even cover their
    Bh side extremely well with the Fh. I would never recommend a poor neglected Bh,
    but I don't see any rec player getting the mileage out of their
    Bh they will from the Fh or Fh improvements unless the Fh is already topped out. I've played with a few players with a much better Bh than Fh, and it was a big
    problem for them. Way harder to hide your Fh than hiding your Bh.


    Most rec play is dubbs, with serves coming only every 4th game and a net man
    to help your efforts to hold. Watch a dubbs match and you will see 4+ Fhs for
    every Bh groundstroke due to less ct to cover.
     
  4. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    I agree, why not. Some on here won't change for anything.
    Good on you.

    Here is my initial comment I intended to support and I still think it was worded fine.

     
  5. julian

    julian Hall of Fame

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    Please describe in details

    Please desicribe in details how did you get 0.06429448
    Otherwise I have to give up
     
  6. luvforty

    luvforty Banned

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    not sure about the 'we all knew' part, otherwise i wouldn't have started this thread due to half the threads are on FHs...and what happened to the mid ct ball theory after charting 50 pro matches lol..

    anyway, i am tired of beating that horse now... so we have reached consensus, in the pros, serve is the most important shot.

    in the recs, no data.

    doubles, different scope that will deserve a separate discussion
     
  7. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    You are welcome to drop it of course, but don't understand what you find funny
    about charting the details of 50+ matches. How many have you charted?
    You spend the hours to chart details of over 50 pro matches, including the 5 set +
    Wimbledon victory by Rafa and get back with me. I don't know what you will
    see...but you will see somethings that you never realized.

    And No, not a consensus. I think good servers are going to be good servers.
    Really good serve coaching...enough to make a difference is sooo rare, so
    mostly they are going to get it or not. But the Fh mid ct attack is an area
    where many never even train enough to know what they have. Most have
    not scratched the surface enough to understand when to pull the trigger or
    when to play a safe.

    Also, if the serve were that clearly the most important shot, Roddick would
    have done even better than he did in his excellent career.
     
  8. luvforty

    luvforty Banned

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    now you are talking out of both sides of mouth... and you still have contributed ZERO pieces of data.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2013
  9. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    and you just contributed one above that is in error! :)

    So I guess data isn't everything for most of us.
     
  10. luvforty

    luvforty Banned

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    why not show your data, we'll take a crack at it.
     
  11. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    No need. We don't approach the data the same.
     
  12. luvforty

    luvforty Banned

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    translation - that data aint worth a dime lol
     
  13. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    See...good example of how you make poor assumptions and mishandle the info :)
     

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