The flaws of federe slowly starts to unravel.

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by kungfusmkim, Mar 24, 2009.

  1. kungfusmkim

    kungfusmkim Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,038
    Location:
    Toronto
    I remember a few years back how people were saying how Federer had no flaws and he was perfect. They even made you tube videos showing how the supposedly flawed "backhand" was just magnificent. But it seems that the flaws were actual flaws! His backhand IMO is the pure pure weakness to his game. His backhand i believe is way to passive. The serve return on the backhand, the rally backhand just seems way way too weak. The confidence we use to see in the backhand seems to dissappear and is filled with shanks.
    *Federer not federe
     
    #1
  2. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Messages:
    10,625
    Location:
    Harker Heights, Texas
    Agreed. The backhand is definitely a liability. He should've gone with a two-handed backhand.
     
    #2
  3. deltox

    deltox Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2009
    Messages:
    2,639
    Location:
    NC, USA
    as far as 1h backhanders go his has rarely let him down. it lacks in speed but its placement was until this year so spot on it didnt matter

    fed is getting the horns for getting older =( and suddenly being human
     
    #3
  4. Tennis_Maestro

    Tennis_Maestro Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2007
    Messages:
    4,101
    Location:
    England London
    He has lost all confidence on his backhand, we know this. Is there really a need to create a thread pointing out the blimming obvious?
     
    #4
  5. federerdomination

    federerdomination Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    705
    not necessarily

    See Gasquet. He proves u can have a big one hander that is not a liability by any means
     
    #5
  6. kungfusmkim

    kungfusmkim Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,038
    Location:
    Toronto
    No im just mentioning even what the commentators doubted. Critics said long before he reached his prime that his Backhand was an issue. But when more people saw him, they said it was a reliable weapon, and that it was one of the best backhands on the tour. But, it seems that the critics were right all along. His backhand "seemed" beautiful and perfect because no one actually got on his nerves or put him out of his comfort zone until Nadal came along and just showed the flaws in his backhand.
     
    #6
  7. T1000

    T1000 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2008
    Messages:
    4,348
    Location:
    Connecticut
    his backhand isnt that weak. nadal just pummels it with insane topspin forehands. anyone's one hander except for gasquet's and guga's would break down
     
    #7
  8. kungfusmkim

    kungfusmkim Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,038
    Location:
    Toronto
    Gasquet's backhand is a freak of nature.
     
    #8
  9. kungfusmkim

    kungfusmkim Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,038
    Location:
    Toronto
    LOL why is that gasquet's backhand and guga's doesnt? Doesnt that mean federer's that its a liability? Not weak? Are you truly telling me that federer can win a point against nadal with out his backhand slice and only with his backhand stroke?
     
    #9
  10. LanceStern

    LanceStern Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2008
    Messages:
    1,332
    Until 2008, Federer's backhand was a weapon. Now it's a weakness that can be fixed if he puts in the effort.

    He used to do everything with the backhand... paint the lines, go down the line, hit extreme angles, drag the opponent offcourt, or blast it at your feet. Even hitting inside out winners with it!

    But he's taken most of that away now for more passive shots to the opponent crosscourt, and he's got to find a way to break that habit. Take chances
     
    #10
  11. edmondsm

    edmondsm Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2005
    Messages:
    6,902
    Location:
    In an in between place.
    Nice Engrish from the OP.

    Federer's backhand took part in winning 13 slams. It's off now, because he's 27, and not the hot shot anymore. I can't wait until Nadal is dropping off and I can dig up the thread: "Does Nadal have and faults".........
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2009
    #11
  12. Yeah but Nadal beat him in 2004 when he realized the backhand had deficiencies. I think it's always been there for people to see, just most of his fans didn't want to admit it. I mean no player is perfect, Nadal has his own issues. Not a big deal either way.
     
    #12
  13. edmondsm

    edmondsm Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2005
    Messages:
    6,902
    Location:
    In an in between place.
    Agree totally. Your weaknesses are relatively unnoticeable when you are dominating everything. Nadal has holes in his game, but you aren't going to nitpick a player who is winning.
     
    #13
  14. iamke55

    iamke55 Professional

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2006
    Messages:
    1,084
    I could make Roddick look like he has the best backhand in the world if I just picked all the best points from a variety of matches and uploaded it to YouTube.
     
    #14
  15. AJK1

    AJK1 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2005
    Messages:
    3,219
    I wouldn't mind having his backhand !!
     
    #15
  16. AJK1

    AJK1 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2005
    Messages:
    3,219
    I wouldn't mind having his weak backhand !!
     
    #16
  17. edberg505

    edberg505 Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2005
    Messages:
    6,073
    I'm betting you would have to go through a plethora of his matches to get enough of them to make a vid.
     
    #17
  18. luckyboy1300

    luckyboy1300 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    1,796
    i was watching some several videos of federer matches a while back and i have noticed that he can hit his backhand dtl more effortlessly before. he needs to reincorporate that on his game to add another dimension to his backhand.
     
    #18
  19. phoenicks

    phoenicks Professional

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2008
    Messages:
    1,246
    And I think Federer should thank Youtube for increasing his fanbase with all the highlighted " Perfect weapon " backhand. Without it, I doubt there would be so many people kissing Federer ass and licking his feet now.
     
    #19
  20. phoenicks

    phoenicks Professional

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2008
    Messages:
    1,246
    I doubt so, his backhand has an inherent weakness in that he need to take 1 extra step to execute it, he'll always be slightly slower with it. And with him aging and having a slightly slower footwork, I dont think he can do anything to turn it around.
     
    #20
  21. phoenicks

    phoenicks Professional

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2008
    Messages:
    1,246
    Agreed, It can be a great weapon for him at his prime when he can get into position earlier with his great footwork and speed, he can create winner and drag opponent out of position to set up point with it, but if you constantly put pressure to it, and actually rally patiently to his backhand, he'll most likely break down 1st.
     
    #21
  22. paulorenzo

    paulorenzo Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2008
    Messages:
    1,587
    Location:
    Virginia Beach
    firstly, a backhand slice is a backhand "stroke."

    guga and gasquet had gamestyles that allow(ed) them to utilize their already great back hands effectively.
    THEY PLAYED METERS BEHIND THE BASELINE.


    ahah, there is a direct corelation, you know. back in his earlier years, fed didnt mind standing 3 or four feet behind the baseline to scramble a bit, and his backhand was quite good(circa 04-07) because he had time to set up.
    but now, he doesnt want to run as much, so he camps on top of the baseline to take balls early. apparently, hitting balls on the rise doesnt bode well for his backhand.
     
    #22
  23. LanceStern

    LanceStern Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2008
    Messages:
    1,332
    He's definitely slower. But he can definitely change some things.

    Like I said a down the line backhand would work wonders. Everyone knows now he'll either hit it to you or cross court. He's got to mix it up.

    I think it's his back
     
    #23
  24. kungfusmkim

    kungfusmkim Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,038
    Location:
    Toronto
    Um yes it is a stroke but a separate stroke from the backhand it self. Think of it this way. when you teaching a beginner how to do a One Handed Backhand, they dont teach one handed backhand SLICE, they teach the one handed backhand. As they get improve the slice is introduced to them. All i'm saying is that the problem was there. federer always had the problem. its just that no one around that time could figure out what that hole is. Until Nadal, a brilliant man btw, came along and found it. Its like episodes of House, they know there is a problem even if the patient looks fine, but they just can't seem to find it through tests. So what do they do? They run different tests and some tests over again.
    * edit:
    Also if you put it like that, does't that make federer look a bit thick headed? I mean, if having your backhand at baseline made you lose, isn't it smarter to move back and hit the backhand more effectively even if it means running more? Just because some one doesnt want to do something should mean they shouldn't, if they want to win ofcourse.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2009
    #24
  25. wilsondude

    wilsondude Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2008
    Messages:
    324
    How many slams do you think Fed would have right now if he had a two-hander?
     
    #25
  26. kungfusmkim

    kungfusmkim Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,038
    Location:
    Toronto
    Depends. How good his backhand is. its pretty hard imagining him with a two hander.
     
    #26
  27. lilycolefan

    lilycolefan Rookie

    Joined:
    May 27, 2007
    Messages:
    227
    It has nothing to do with that. It has to do with his technique. The shot is too wristy.
     
    #27
  28. GameSampras

    GameSampras Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2008
    Messages:
    4,689
    Nadal was EXPOSING Fed even way back in what is highly regarded as Fed's prime (04-07). So its not just now Fed is getting exposed. Nadal has always had the game to take Fed out and give him problems and now Murray is playing Fed in a similiar fashion.

    Only difference now is Nadal is exposing Fed on every surface, now that he has become a big time player on all the surfaces. Even if Nadal, primed back in 05-06, the results would be similiar as they are today between these two
     
    #28
  29. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Messages:
    10,625
    Location:
    Harker Heights, Texas
    It's a harder shot to perfect then a two-handed backhand. Not many of the pros got that shot down as well not many have it.
     
    #29
  30. kungfusmkim

    kungfusmkim Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,038
    Location:
    Toronto
    i agree. i feel like the situation with federer is with HIV. First people throw up for the first couple of weeks of new medication (early exposure of Federer's backhand by nadal). But after those couple of weeks, they feel normal again. Then through time, the CD4* T cells starts to lower weakening the immune system (Federer still wins the encounters, but nadal exposes federer's backhand as he becomes stronger and stronger). Then FULL BLOWN AIDS (Nadal is too strong for Federer loses his matches because his backhand is unable to handle Nadal). TADA! lol.
     
    #30
  31. paulorenzo

    paulorenzo Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2008
    Messages:
    1,587
    Location:
    Virginia Beach
    hahaha. how is the slice backhand a separate stroke from the backhand itself?
    if it is a stroke hit off of the backhand side, regardless if it was top spin, flat, or slice, it is still a backhand stroke. same thing with the forehand side.

    anyways, i was merely pointing out that fed had a very decent backhand from the time he was dominant and it wasnt as much of a liablitity back then, as you claim, against most players. nadal was the one to capitalize the most on this, hitting virtually all of his shots to federer's backhand side.

    and the point you made about being federer being thick headed, i actually agree with you. he is just overly hesitant to change. a guy named PETE SAMPRAS was like that too. but the reason fed doesnt want to move back away from the baseline is because he cannot run as much as he used to, not because he doesnt want to. he even admits he cannot keep up in long points with guys like murray and nadal anymore, so he has to stay aggressive on the baseline.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2009
    #31
  32. paulorenzo

    paulorenzo Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2008
    Messages:
    1,587
    Location:
    Virginia Beach
    agreed.
    10
     
    #32
  33. ESP#1

    ESP#1 Professional

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2008
    Messages:
    1,093
    I thought at the AO it was his first serve that let him down not his backhand. He also missed alot of break point chances, I dont have the stat but its something outrageous. The backhand was a factor against Murray the other day but this is not the reason for Federers recent slump
     
    #33
  34. egn

    egn Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2008
    Messages:
    4,973
    agree with paragraph 1.
    disagree with paragraph 2 i think fed would have clear advantage on faster courts and nadal would have clear advantage on slower courts. It would not nearly be as lopsided. Though clay could be so much worse, but I think Federer would hold his own on fast hcs, indoors courts and grass
     
    #34
  35. kungfusmkim

    kungfusmkim Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,038
    Location:
    Toronto
    I Agree with everything except the slice part. The slice is a complete seperate stroke by it self. It has a different starting point and technique involved doesn't it? Even though its hit on the backhand side i mean.
     
    #35
  36. paulorenzo

    paulorenzo Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2008
    Messages:
    1,587
    Location:
    Virginia Beach
    it is still referred to as the backhand slice, so it is a backhand stroke.

    a backhand stroke is not only topspin or flat shots. a backhand slice IS a backhand stroke.


    i think of it this way, on groundies, there are two basic categories: forehand strokes and backhand strokes. the strokes listed under each of the categories include: flat, slice, top spin.
     
    #36
  37. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2006
    Messages:
    13,674
    I noticed that too.
     
    #37
  38. Gen

    Gen Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    586
    It's not the matter of his backhand only. This is what John Newcombe and Fred Stolle think about his volleying:

    "When he comes over the ball and leaves it short then he gets lost in the rally and Nadal just tees off. The other thing we (John Newcombe, Fred’s broadcast partner) noticed was when Federer came to the net he almost never came in a hurry. He has got to learn when he comes in to come in with urgency! You come in against Nadal you better come in fast and close that net hard and get two meters closer. Contrary to what most people think, we don’t think Federer is a great volleyer. Now when I saw that this is nit picky a little bit: he’s a good volleyer, but he’s not a great volleyer because he doesn’t consistently get behind the flight of the ball. He tends to bring the racquet face down and sometimes looks to where he’s hitting and when you’re volleying against someone who can dip the ball with that much spin as Nadal you must get that racquet behind the flight of the ball."

    ALex Olmedo:

    "Fred is right about the volley. The whole idea of net play is to hit the volley above the height of the net — don’t let the ball come down! Federer, in many cases, was hitting the volleys too low down around his knees and you can’t do that against Nadal, he is too good. He was a little bit late getting to the net. When he approaches he should use the slice more because the top spin backhand sits up and Nadal can drive it. Remember that fantastic running forehand pass Nadal hit it the fourth set? Federer’s approach has to be better and if you can catch the ball on the rise with slice deep and get tighter to the net that would help. He needs to punch the volley. You don’t take a swing at the volley, you punch it, and he was sometimes taking too big a swing on the volley, but look Nadal puts so much pressure on you because he hits so great on the run"

    http://blog.tennisweek.com/?p=154

    It looks that overrated Federer's volleying is a little bit deficient.
     
    #38
  39. bet

    bet Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2007
    Messages:
    487
    Didn't say anything about it in the other thread, but quite frankly, a guy who writes a lengthy post with his tips to beat Nadal, which read like tips on how to play tennis in a pamphlet handed about by a park and recs department, really has no grounds to start whining about one line from another poster. Keep your fedfanboyism under control.
     
    #39
  40. swedechris

    swedechris Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2004
    Messages:
    1,072
    True... All players have their ups and downs .. and peaks.
     
    #40

Share This Page