The Graf / Seles Debate ... Combined / Continuing Threads

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by Condoleezza, Jun 10, 2006.

  1. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    Wow, what a win for Justine today!
    She is just 24 years old and has 5 slam titles already.

    In the open era the slam win rankings looks like this now:

    1. Graf 22
    2. Evert 18 (16 final losses)
    3. Navratilova 18 (14)
    4. Court 11
    5. Seles 9
    6. King 8
    7. S. Williams 7
    8. Hingis 5 (7)
    9. V. Williams 5 (6)
    10. Henin-Hardenne 5 (2)

    Top ten already!

    What do you think - how far can she go?
    I think she will surpass Serena at least, has even a shot #5 perhaps!:D

    Condi
     
    #1
  2. Max G.

    Max G. Hall of Fame

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    Wow, that's pretty good! Didn't realize she was that high already.

    I'm not going to make any predictions about her total though. She's so physically fragile - you never know when the next injury or illness is going to knock her out for even longer.
     
    #2
  3. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    So why did you post the amount of final losses of Evert & Navratilova, but not Graf or Seles?
     
    #3
  4. federerhoogenbandfan

    federerhoogenbandfan Banned

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    Justine will probably end up with the most slams of the current group of women. Serena does not seem too interested in pursuing her tennis career with much urgency anymore, she will probably still pull out 1 or 2 slams somewhere being 24 now(Henin just turned 24 herself)but that is it. Venus and Henin are tied now. Venus does seem to show a bit more enthusiasm and willingness to stay/return to the top and pursue slam titles, but since Henin is 18 months younger and has more chance on clay, and similar on hard courts now, I think she will probably end up with more slams then Venus as well. Hingis it is great to see a contender again, and she is tied with Justine in slams now, she might have more slams in her, but likely not as many more as Justine.
     
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  5. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    The "Condi Promotes Graf's Greatness" Collection

    As there is raaaaaaaaaaain in Wimbledon German DSF showed a replay of the Steffi-Arantxa Wimbledon final of 1995, the last two games. With the famous "11th game".

    Graceful, slicing, forehand-whacking Steffi with those un-be-lie-va-ble legs vs. scurrying, retrieving and fighting Arantxa with her endearing smile. And at the end the victory ceremony with DSF playing the emotional "Dances With Wolves" title theme in the background ....

    Ah, those were the days ......


    Condi


    Back to World Cup!!!
     
    #5
  6. Shabazza

    Shabazza Legend

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    yep it was a nice reminder - they even showed some of 1982 Connors vs JMac final...
    btw. where are you from, if you get DSF?
     
    #6
  7. HollerOne5

    HollerOne5 Semi-Pro

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    Must Be Nice!!! ESPN2 showed the 2005 final between Federer and Roddick not only once, but TWICE!!! Because I mean it was such an entertaining match and all. Also the 2005 Ladies final, which was a bit better, but seriously, they will need to do better than that if the rain continues.
     
    #7
  8. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    DSF is "Deutsches Sport-Fernsehen" (German Sports TV)
    Now take a guess ..... ;)

    Condi
     
    #8
  9. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    The "Condi Promotes Graf's Greatness" Collection

    1 Steffi Graf 86-2 0.977 1989
    2 Steffi Graf 75-2 0.974 1987
    3 Steffi Graf 72-3 0.96 1988
    4 Steffi Graf 47-2 0.959 1995
    5 Martina Hingis 75-5 0.937 1997
    6 Steffi Graf 72-5 0.935 1990
    7 Monica Seles 70-5 0.933 1992
    8 Steffi Graf 54-4 0.931 1996
    9 Steffi Graf 76-6 0.927 1993
    10 S. Williams 38-3 0.927 2003


    Quite interesting that even Graf's 5th-best year (1990) was better than Seles's best. And that Graf's 7th-best year (1993) was better than Seles's 2nd-best one (1991). IMO this is further proof how extremely Seles is overrated in some circles (U.S. especially).
    Stats don't lie, though ...

    Condi
     
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  10. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    Best WTA seasons - Navratilova and Graf FAR ahead

    MOST IMPRESSIVE SEASONS (85%+ wins) IN WTA TENNIS


    1 . 1983. (99% 86-1) Martina Navratilova (USA)
    2 . 1989. (98% 86-2) Steffi Graf (GER)
    3 . 1984. (98% 78-2) Martina Navratilova (USA)
    4 . 1987. (97% 75-2) Steffi Graf (GER)
    5 . 1982. (97% 90-3) Martina Navratilova (USA)
    6 . 1986. (97% 89-3) Martina Navratilova (USA)
    7 . 1988. (96% 72-3) Steffi Graf (GER)
    8 . 1995. (96% 47-2) Steffi Graf (GER)
    9 . 1977. (95% 62-3) Chris Evert (USA)
    10. 1985. (94% 84-5) Martina Navratilova (USA)
    11. 1997. (94% 75-5) Martina Hingis (SUI)
    12. 1990. (94% 72-5) Steffi Graf (GER)
    13. 1992. (93% 70-5) Monica Seles (USA)
    14. 1996. (93% 54-4) Steffi Graf (GER)
    15. 1978. (93% 53-4) Chris Evert (USA)
    16. 2003. (93% 38-3) Serena Williams (USA)
    16. 1993. (93% 76-6) Steffi Graf (GER)
    18. 1991. (93% 74-6) Monica Seles (YUG)
    19. 1982. (92% 69-6) Chris Evert (USA)
    20. 1981. (92% 68-6) Chris Evert (USA)
    21. 2002. (92% 56-5) Serena Williams (USA)
    22. 1986. (91% 64-6) Steffi Graf (GER)
    23. 1989. (91% 73-7) Martina Navratilova (USA)
    24. 2000. (91% 41-4) Venus Williams (USA)
    25. 1992. (91% 71-7) Steffi Graf (GER)
    26. 1988. (91% 70-7) Martina Navratilova (USA)
    27. 1985. (91% 79-8) Chris Evert (USA)
    28. 1980. (91% 68-7) Chris Evert (USA)
    29. 1994. (91% 58-6) Steffi Graf (GER)
    30. 2001. (90% 46-5) Venus Williams (USA)

    Quite interesting how Navratilova and Graf are superior to the likes of Seles (only #13 & #18), Serena (only #16 & #21) and Venus (only #24 & #30).

    Navratilova and Graf both had FIVE better seasons than Seles's best, Graf SIX better seasons than Serena (Navratilova 5 better ones).
    Graf had EIGHT, Navratilova six better seasons than Venus Williams.

    Evert in the 70ies was worse than Navratilova and Graf in the 80ies. Evert still has 4 better seasons than Venus's best.

    Graf won 93.6 % of her matches in 1986-96 (ELEVEN years).
    Seles and the Williams sisters didn't even have ONE single season with a winning percentage like that.
     
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  11. ATPballkid

    ATPballkid Professional

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    And Navratilova NEVER had a losing record in her career vs. Graf. In fact, long after Navratilova had passed her prime she had a winning record -- as did Seles -- in those years 1990, 1991, 1992 and 1993 until a jealous Graf fan took matters into his own hands and did something Graf could not do on her own --- he got Graf a #1 ranking by literally stabbing Monica Seles in the back with a sharp knife.

    Gunther / Graf was the best comibination in the history of women's tennis singles.
     
    #11
  12. ATPballkid

    ATPballkid Professional

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    Can Navratilova say that Evert was stabbed in the back with a knife in order for her to win an all-time record number of singles titles and doubles titles on the WTA Tour? I think the years Navratilova was most dominant she had a winning percentage which was better than the best winning percentage Graf ever had from any one year ... and Martina was able to do this without her arch-rivals being stabbed in the back with a knife.

    Name any of the 5 major events -- the 4 Grand Slams and the WTA Tour Championships -- where Graf has the all-time record for most singles or doubles titles won there.

    I don't think you can ... even with the help she got from Gunther Parche.
     
    #12
  13. Warriorroger

    Warriorroger Hall of Fame

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    ATP Ball kid: a coward:
    Sorry! That user has specified that they do not wish to receive emails. If you still wish to send an email to this user, please contact the administrator and they may be able to help
     
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  14. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    Graf won 93.6 % of her matches in 1986-96 (ELEVEN years).
    Seles didn't even have ONE single season with a winning percentage like that.
    :D :D :D

    Condi
     
    #14
  15. ATPballkid

    ATPballkid Professional

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    In the middle of Graf's career, a young teenager by the name of Monica Seles came in and dominated women's tennis by winning 10 of the 12 biggest events in women's tennis between the end of 1990 and the early part of 1993. Then, a COWARD jealous Graf fan decided to stab Monica Seles in the back with a knife.

    Warriorroger AKA Condoleezza AKA Gunther Parche himself?
     
    #15
  16. mariarulez

    mariarulez Rookie

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    true, but i think the womens game today is better than ever. just ask martina hingis. not sure if martina n. or chrissy could hang with crop.
     
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  17. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    Graf won 93.6 % of her matches in 1986-96 (ELEVEN years).
    Seles didn't even have ONE single season with a winning percentage like that.
    Enough said about domination .....
    :D :D :D

    Condi
     
    #17
  18. FedSampras

    FedSampras Semi-Pro

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    There is no doubt a giant asterisk (knife?) should be placed next to Graf's records. Seles could have easily had 18 GS titles and Graf ended up with much less if not for her stabbing by a Graf fan. Graf is definitley not the GOAT. There are players like Navaratilova, Evert, Billie Jean King, Margaret Court, who accomplished a lot without their main rival being stabbed by one of their fans.
     
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  19. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    Graf: Grace, dignity, style - a joy to behold

    Excerpts from tennis articles on Steffi Graf's retirement in 1999:

    "Vividly etched in the mind's eye was the picture, as Andre Agassi said
    four days ago, of "the best lady that has ever played". That, as much as
    her tennis, was what epitomised Steffi Graf- grace, dignity and style."

    "Oncourt, with all her fluid movement and athletic grace, she was a lithe gazelle who not only attracted our attention, but grabbed the eye of the editors at Vogue, who featured her in a who’s-that-supermodel? fashion spread."

    "For the purists she was a sheer joy to behold, one who gave tennis a new aura and dimension, as an art that not merely demanded imagination but was something with incredible capacity for improvisation. She lifted the whole aspect to a different plane."

    "Steffi Graf, a woman of both talent and grace, bewitched us 13-years
    ago."

    "Steffi Graf – a legend, a champion, a professional, and a winner. With her lethal  forehand, her troublesome slice backhand, her  devastating serve, Steffi could blow away any  opponent on the court. With her champion’s mettle, her undeniable heart, and sheer will to  win, she could win any major championship in any   given era against many different players. While  we are sad to see her depart the tour, we will   long remember the player who gave us such  excitement, such passion and such joy in  watching her play. "

    "Graf walks away from tennis with the same grace with which she played."

    "And more than anyone this side of Chris Evert, Graf did her spanking with a dignity and class that Venus Williams, Martina Hingis, Monica Seles and Martina Navratilova would beg to have. "


    What do you think: When will there be a female tennis player again who will be praised like that when she retires? Will we live long enough to see it?

    Condi
     
    #19
  20. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    Graf leads Hingis 7-2 H2H.
    Navratilova returned to the game in 2002 (as a 45-year-old) and beat #20 Tatjana Panova.
    Graf only lost in the tie-break against #16 Likhovtseva in 2005 at WTT.
    Brenda Schultz-McCarthy (35) hopped off the couch as well and broke the serve-speed record this year (130 mph).

    I don't know where you get this stuff from that the women's game of today is better than ever. Only difference is the girls of today have huge rackets which enable them to bash the ball at maximum speed.

    Give peak Navratilova and Graf today's rackets and they would whip Mauresmo & Co.
    Hey, give Graf only her old racket ......:D

    Condi
     
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  21. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    I don't know how Seles could have won 18 slams.

    Or do you think without the stabbing her dad would not have died of cancer and Monica would not have become fat???:confused:

    Condi
     
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  22. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    Most impressive seasons in WTA tennis 1987-2006

    MOST IMPRESSIVE SEASONS IN WTA TENNIS 1987 - 2006

    1 . 1989 (98% 86-2) Steffi Graf (GER)
    2 . 1987 (97% 75-2) Steffi Graf (GER)
    3 . 1988 (96% 72-3) Steffi Graf (GER)
    4 . 1995 (96% 47-2) Steffi Graf (GER)
    5 . 1997 (94% 75-5) Martina Hingis (SUI)
    6 . 1990 (94% 72-5) Steffi Graf (GER)
    7 . 1992 (93% 70-5) Monica Seles (USA)
    8 . 1996 (93% 54-4) Steffi Graf (GER)
    9 . 2003 (93% 38-3) Serena Williams (USA)
    10. 1993 (93% 76-6) Steffi Graf (GER)
    11. 1991 (93% 74-6) Monica Seles (YUG)
    12. 2002 (92% 56-5) Serena Williams (USA)
    13. 1989 (91% 73-7) Martina Navratilova (USA)
    14. 2000 (91% 41-4) Venus Williams (USA)
    15. 1992 (91% 71-7) Steffi Graf (GER)
    16. 1988 (91% 70-7) Martina Navratilova (USA)
    17. 1994 (91% 58-6) Steffi Graf (GER)
    18. 2001 (90% 46-5) Venus Williams (USA)
    19. 1990 (90% 54-6) Monica Seles (YUG)
    20. 2004 (90% 35-4) Justine Henin-Hardenne (BEL)
    21. 1994 (90% 77-9) Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario (ESP)
    22. 1991 (89% 65-8 ) Steffi Graf (GER)
    23. 2000 (89% 77-10) Martina Hingis (SUI)
    24. 2005 (88% 67-9) Kim Clijsters (BEL)
    25. 2003 (88% 90-12) Kim Clijsters (BEL)
    26. 2006 (88 % 60-8 ) Justine Henin-Hardenne (BEL)
    27. 1990 (88% 52-7) Martina Navratilova (USA)
    28. 2004 (88% 63-9) Lindsay Davenport (USA)
    29. 1987 (88% 56-8 ) Martina Navratilova (USA)
    30. 2001 (87% 62-9) Lindsay Davenport (USA)
    31. 2002 (87% 62-9) Venus Williams (USA)
    32. 2003 (87% 75-11) Justine Henin-Hardenne (BEL)
    33. 2005 (87% 34-5) Justine Henin-Hardenne (BEL)
    34. 2006 (87% 59-9) Maria Sharapova (RUS)
    35. 1995 (86% 63-10) Conchita Martinez (ESP)
    36. 1999 (86% 61-10) Lindsay Davenport (USA)
    37. 2001 (86% 60-10) Lindsay Davenport (USA)
    38. 1991 (85% 53-9) Martina Navratilova (USA)
    39. 2005 (85% 41-7) Maria Sharapova (RUS)
    40. 1999 (85% 41-7) Serena Williams (USA)

    Exactly 20 of 40 of those impressive seasons are from the last decade (1997-2006). So obviously it wasn't more difficult to be successful in today's tennis than it was in the decade before that (1987-96).

    If it weren't for Graf we would be saying today that the field had more depth in 1987-96 than in 1997-2006 ...

    Condi
     
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  23. rommil

    rommil Legend

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    Thought this would be another Graf droolfest. Move on man/woman or whatever you are. Graf is the greatest player record wise but can barely hit a passing shot from the backhand side. Now think how that would translate in today's game.
     
    #23
  24. Grimjack

    Grimjack Banned

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    Each era only has so many players who will achieve greatness. That's a simple matter of statistics.

    That said, "highest winning percentage" does not equal "most impressive," unless you are playing in an era when the best player in your sport HASN'T been stabbed in the back and rendered ineffective by a lunatic fan. So erase about half of the Graf "most impressive seasons" from the record, please.
     
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  25. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    Ask Martina Navratilova.

    Graf beat her at Wimbledon 5-7 6-2 6-1 and 6-2 6-7 6-1.
    Navratilova hit 85 % of her shots to Graf's backhand.
    And attacked the net all day long.

    Hmm, what did Graf do?
    Wanna take a guess, boy ...... ? :-D :-D :-D

    Condi
     
    #25
  26. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    Graf is there with 10 seasons.
    1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992 are pre-stabbing.
    6 seasons (= 60 %).

    1996 was post-stabbing but Seles played again.

    So only 3 seasons (1993, 1994, 1995 = 30 %) are affected by the Seles stabbing.
    And you want to suggest that Graf would have lost so many matches to Seles that she would not have win/loss records in those 3 years that would have made this list ??

    What makes you think so?
    That Seles won 1 of 4 matches against Graf in 1991/92 (Seles's two best seasons)?

    Hopefully you don't earn your money in a job where you need your brain ..... :-D :grin: :smile:

    Condi
     
    #26
  27. rommil

    rommil Legend

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    Ahhh Graf hit a slice backhand? Dude Graf has already retired and that's all you talk about. You are probably one of those types where you watch old tapes of Graf(the ones that she won anyways) over and over again. It's the year 2006, move on.
     
    #27
  28. AndrewD

    AndrewD Legend

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    Here's some plain info on the success rates of 5 of the most successful female players of all time (singles only). Years when players were off the tour haven't been included.

    Margaret Court
    14 years played
    4 times not making at least quarter final
    46 tournaments played
    23 titles won
    50% success rate

    Chris Evert
    19 years played
    55 tournaments played
    2 times not making at least quarter finals
    18 singles titles
    33% success rate

    Steffi Graf
    17 years played
    54 tournaments played
    12 times not making at least quarter finals
    22 titles won
    41% success rate

    Martina Navratilova
    22 years played
    64 tournaments played
    12 times not making at least quarter finals
    18 titles won
    28% success rate

    Monica Seles
    14 years played
    40 tournaments played
    9 times not making at least quarter finals
    9 titles won
    22.5% success rate
     
    #28
  29. Zuras

    Zuras Banned

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    Court only played about half her career in the open era, and the AO wasn't considered a real major until long after she retired.
    Anyway, realistic adjustments:
    omit results before the open era(otherwise unfair to people that played in a more competitive era), omit results after player turns 30(unfair to people that hung out for a long time, like Navratilova), omit results before the generally accepted age of adulthood (18 in North America, but your your mileage may vary).
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2006
    #29
  30. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    As a passing shot against an attacking Navratilova .....?

    :-D :-D :-D

    You don't know much about tennis, do you?


    Condi
     
    #30
  31. The tennis guy

    The tennis guy Hall of Fame

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    Why do you limit to 1987? Why list only top 40? Sounds like making a point by cherry picking stats to me.

    Only 4 out of the top 20 occured in 1997-2006 that's a lot more significant than 20 out of 40 occured in 1997-2006.
     
    #31
  32. lenbo01

    lenbo01 New User

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    1988 has got to be the most impressive regardless of winning pct... Graf - 4 grand slams wins plus the olympic gold medal. case closed
     
    #32
  33. rommil

    rommil Legend

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    Watching it you mean? You poor soul, that's probably the only thing you do. I have been playing tennis for 20 years and play in USTA tournaments. You probably sit on your behind watching very old Graf matches and thinking how good she is. And you always go back to Navratilova and how Graf passed her. You are just a redundant time machine.
     
    #33
  34. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    I admit it, I go back to Beethoven and Louis Armstrong.
    You prefer 50 cents and Madonna.
    To each his own.


    Condi

    BTW, suggesting that Graf beat Navratilova in Wimbledon with *slice* BH passing shots makes one very vulnerable .....
     
    #34
  35. superman1

    superman1 Legend

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    I don't see why it's necessary to try to prove how good Graf was. If you don't think she's at least in the top 3 of all time, you are wrong.
     
    #35
  36. tennisjunkiela

    tennisjunkiela Semi-Pro

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    the poster is cherry picking to promote graf!

    martina navratilova finished 1983 with only 1 loss the entire year!
     
    #36
  37. ty slothrop

    ty slothrop Semi-Pro

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    #37
  38. rommil

    rommil Legend

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    Ok we get it. You are old and stuck up. BTW, I listen more to the likes of Bjork, Radiohead and Sigur Ros.
     
    #38
  39. ATPballkid

    ATPballkid Professional

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    Ok guys.. I have compiled another list of stats for Navratilova & Graf and established a finals-winning percentage for them. Basically these stats show how many finals they have won vs. the number of finals they reached. I also broke it down by the surface for Condoleezza aka Gunther Parche.

    Here are the results:

    Martina Navratilova:

    Hardcourt:
    Total Finals Played: 53


    Claycourt:
    Total Finals Played: 32


    Grasscourt:
    Total Finals Played: 41


    Indoor Carpet:
    Total Finals Played: 115

    Total Career Finals Played: 241
    Total Career Finals Won: 167


    Steffi Graf:

    Hardcourt:
    Total Finals Played: 53

    Claycourt:
    Total Finals Played: 43


    Grasscourt:
    Total Finals Played: 9


    Indoor Carpet:
    Total Finals Played: 33

    Total Career Finals Played: 138

    so let's review:

    Hardcourt

    Navratilova.. 53 finals
    Graf........... 53 finals

    Winner: TIED

    Claycourt

    Navratilova.. 32 finals
    Graf........... 43 finals

    Winner: Graf

    Grasscourt

    Navratilova.. 41 finals
    Graf........... 9 finals

    Winner: Navratilova

    Indoor Carpet

    Navratilova.. 115 finals
    Graf........... 33 finals

    Winner: Navratilova

    Career Finals

    Navratilova.. 241 finals (winning 167)
    Graf........... 138 finals

    Winner: Navratilova

    As you can see by the results, Navratilova has a much better record in reaching finals than Graf did.

    Chris Evert was never stabbed in the back at the top of her career.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2006
    #39
  40. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    You forgot Graf's "Total Career Finals Won" and didn't "establish a finals-winning percentage for them" although you promised so!:grin:
    Wonder why ....

    OK, I'll help you, poor soul.

    Graf:
    Total Career Finals Won: 107

    Finals-Winning Percentage:
    Graf: 78 %
    Navratilova: 69 %


    Winner: Steffi Graf
     
    #40
  41. ATPballkid

    ATPballkid Professional

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    LOL ... another beauty from Gunther Parche.

    Graf won a total of 107 singles titles over a 14 year span. That is an average of 7.643 singles titles per year over 14 years.

    Navratilova won a total of 167 singles titles over a span of 21 years. That is an average of 7.952 singles titles per year over 21 years.


    Most singles titles in one season:

    Steffi Graf: 14 in 1989
    Navratilova: 16 in 1983 ... 15 in 1982 ... 14 in 1986.


    Most singles titles in 2 consecutive seasons:

    Steffi Graf: 25 in 1988-1989
    Navratilova: 31 in 1982-1983


    Most singles titles in 3 consecutive seasons:

    Steffi Graf: 36 in 1987-1989
    Navratilova: 44 in 1982-1984


    Most singles titles in 4 consecutive seasons:

    Steffi Graf: 46 in 1987-1990
    Navratilova: 56 in 1982-1985


    Most singles titles in 5 consecutive seasons:

    Steffi Graf: 54 in 1986-1990
    Navratilova: 70 in 1982-1986


    Most singles titles in 6 consecutive seasons:

    Steffi Graf: 61 in 1986-1991
    Navratilova: 80 in 1981-1986


    Most singles titles in 7 consecutive seasons:

    Steffi Graf: 69 in 1986-1992
    Navratilova: 91 in 1980-1986


    Most singles titles in 8 consecutive seasons:

    Steffi Graf: 79 in 1986-1993
    Navratilova: 101 in 1979-1986


    Most singles titles in 9 consecutive seasons:

    Steffi Graf: 86 in 1986-1994
    Navratilova: 123 in 1978-1986


    Most singles titles in 10 consecutive seasons:

    Steffi Graf: 95 in 1986-1995
    Navratilova: 130 in 1977-1986


    Most singles titles in a given year:

    1. Navratilova 1983 ....... 16
    2. Navratilova 1982 ....... 15
    3. Navratilova 1986 ....... 14
    3. Graf 1989 ..................... 14
    5. Navratilova 1984 ....... 13
    6. Navratilova 1985 ....... 12
    7. Navratilova 1978 ....... 11
    7. Navratilova 1980 ....... 11
    7. Graf 1987 ..................... 11
    7. Graf 1988 ..................... 11
    11. Navratilova 1979 ....... 10
    11. Navratilova 1981 ....... 10
    11. Graf 1990 ..................... 10
    11. Graf 1993 ..................... 10

    What were you saying, Gunther?

    AND Navratilova is the ONLY player in women's tennis history to have the all-time record for most singles matches won at 2 of the 5 biggest events in women's tennis.

    Meanwhile, Graf does not have the all-time record for most singles titles at ANY of the 5 biggest events in women's tennis even with the help she got from Gunther.

     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2006
    #41
  42. ATPballkid

    ATPballkid Professional

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    No ... the vast majority of the NUMBERS are on significantly on Navratilova's side ... 167 is ALWAYS greater than 107 except in golf.

    Don't make us show you up yet again, Gunther, by going over the numbers again.
     
    #42
  43. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    You forgot Navratilova's numerous mixed doubes titles.


    BTW:

    Most slams in a 1-year span:
    Graf: 4 (= "Grand Slam")
    Navratilova 3
    winner: Graf

    Most slams in a career span:
    Graf: 22 (= most pro slam titles)
    Navratilova: 18
    winner: Graf


    We should ask Graf whether she would swap those records against Navratilova's 167 singles titles and all those mixed doubles titles .....

    ;) :D :D

    Condi
     
    #43
  44. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    Which male golfers won

    a) the most titles

    b) the most majors?

    Tell us and then we decide who is more famous .... :grin: :grin: :grin:


    Condi
     
    #44
  45. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    Quick Quiz #1

    Steffi Graf won 676 of 721 matches in a 10-year time span (1987-96).
    That is 93.7587 %.

    Now the question:

    Which WTA player of the last 20 years had a better winning percentage (or at least the same) in ONE calendar year?

    a) Monica Seles

    b) Serena Williams

    c) Both of them

    d) None of them

    e) Someone else



    Condi
     
    #45
  46. Grimjack

    Grimjack Banned

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    You forgot the asterisk next to the winning percentage.
     
    #46
  47. ATXtennisaddict

    ATXtennisaddict Hall of Fame

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    condoleeza, here's a question for you

    What are you doing here instead of helping run the country?
     
    #47
  48. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    You mean

    "* = could have been even more successful if not having been hampered by tons of injuries and distracted by family scandals"?


    Hmm, debatable - but this would be woulda-coulda land.
    Doesn't count.
    So let's stay with 93.7587 % .........


    Condi
     
    #48
  49. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    As a matter of fact I DO help run the country.

    In spare time I school young tennis fanatics.


    Condi
     
    #49
  50. ATPballkid

    ATPballkid Professional

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    Navratilova is the only woman player to have the all-time record for most singles titles at 2 of the 5 biggest events in women's tennis (Wimbledon and WTA Championships) .... the other 3 record holders at the biggest events are Evert (French), Mallory (U.S. Championships) and Court (Australian). Steffi doesn't show up as having the most at any of the biggest 5 events --- even with the stabbing.

    SORRY.
     
    #50

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