The "Gutpoly High" Club

Discussion in 'Strings' started by JackB1, Mar 24, 2011.

  1. stringertom

    stringertom G.O.A.T.

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    More playtest feedback re: 3 poly crosses

    Got another 4 or so hours court time in with the three different set-ups:
    1. Call me biased, but the Tornado still delivers for me. It has really stabilized at 57/36 readings on the Beers tensometer. Despite being strung 10 days earlier @ 3-4 #s less and played with more, it has the same read as the X-Code set-up. The Hyperion reads 6% higher now but was strung 2-3 #s higher. I will get more hitting, non-competitive court time tomorrow and use the Hyperion mostly to see if it holds tighter.
     
    #51
  2. Boricua

    Boricua Hall of Fame

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    What tension did you use?
     
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  3. drummerdan

    drummerdan Semi-Pro

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    Tennis Warehouse has a section in their learning center called "String Friction Rankings". Many of the rankings are hybrids. I decided to try out the number 1 COF (coefficient of friction - ie: slippery strings) rated hybrid: VS Tonic+ 16 (mains) and MSV Hepta Twist 17 (crosses). I strung it up at 60# gut and 57# poly and took it out for a test drive this evening.

    All I can saw is WOW! This setup was everything you want - spinny, comfortable, controllable and I could really crank up the serve when necessary. No soreness in my arm afterward and it was easy to string (the crosses were a bit feisty but not too bad). This is a combo worth serious consideration.

    Try it out for yourself!!
     
    #53
  4. McLovin

    McLovin Hall of Fame

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    I am a huge proponent of the gut mains/poly crosses setup. My initial setup was Pacific Classic 17g / Topspin Concept Pure 1.24 crosses in a Fischer M-Comp.

    When I switched to the C10 Pro I tried a few different poly crosses, including Red Code, Poly Force, Solinco Outlast and Pro Poly Plasma. I initially settled on the Poly Force, but after a few more outings, decided I liked the feel of Concept Pure the best, so I went back to my original setup, and there I've been for 9 months.

    56lbs all the way around. Setup lasts ~ 3 weeks, or 8 - 10 matches. I don't believe I have broken a string yet.

    In addition, I've turned many people I string for on to this setup. All different levels of play, and all different types of frames. And the fact that Topspin reels are so inexpensive (costing ~ $2 a string job) helps offset the cost of the gut.
     
    #54
  5. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    DrummerDan,

    If you enjoyed the VS / Twist hybrid try VS / CoFocus. I spoke with the folks at Guts and Glory and they explained that CoFocus is the exact same material simply not twisted. You get even better string movement.

    Part of the Secret to Twist/CoFocus smooth surface is the polished surface. Some polys are slippery due to a coating but these wear away quickly. These strings are slippery because they some of the most highly polished strings available. Thus their surface stays slippery longer. Another highly polished string is Silverstring but it is more easily deformed (see below).

    The Twist/CoFocus material resists deformation far more than any poly I've tried. Other polys have a lot of "memory" when deformed and their surface gets broken and rough when bent. The CoFocus material stays smooth and strong even when subjected to harsh bending keeping your string bed smooth and lower friction.

    I liked it so much my new standard is Black VS mains and CoFocus 17 crosses. My wife also usesthishybrid in her PB10 Mid and loves it!
     
    #55
  6. Boricua

    Boricua Hall of Fame

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    1-Would you recommend the Black VS mains and CoFocus 17 setup for a topspin player?

    2-Did the Black VS feel as good as the regular VS?
     
    #56
  7. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    1- Absolutely! I love hitting with topspin and this is very spin friendly. Night before last I hit with my wife using this setup. I could tell I was generating more spin than with previous setups for two reasons. First, on numerous occasions shots she was convinced were heading out dropped in at the last moment. The balls were arcing very hard. Second, I've not been very good at generating side spin but Wednesday evening she was having more trouble lining up her shots. Several times my shots broke in unexpected directions post-bounce. Two actually slammed into her the arc and post-bounce break were so significant.

    Is it as spinny as some full polys? I guess so. I've tried some full poly setups and didn't see that all the fuss is about. Yeah, you can hit hard from the baseline with full poly, but forget all-court performance compared to gut mains. And for me spin generation was as good or better with gut/poly compared to full poly so I can hit just as hard with this gut/poly hybrid.

    2. I tried VS Black previously (with RPM mains) and I found it stiffer than VS Classic which was disappointing to me. But VS Classic is going out-of-production so I decided to give it another try. It has less of that ball-pocketing feel than VS Classic and I miss that. On the other hand, it does feel crisper (the upside of greater stiffness?), so it's certainly a trade off. I'll miss VS Classic's unique feel but will be able to play with VS Black. Besides, the VS Black looks killer with CoFocus! My PSLGT strings are black/red and the PB10 Mid is black/yellow. :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2011
    #57
  8. Boricua

    Boricua Hall of Fame

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    Have you considered trying the all black combo of VS Black and Weiss Cannon Black5Edge. Many,including myself, like B5E very much, it is much more comfortable than RPM.:)
     
    #58
  9. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    I am considering it. John at G&G has also recommended it. He said the surface is also well polished.

    I've tried a number of shaped polys in the crosses with gut mains: RPM, Hepta Twist, PHT, Hurricane Pro, etc. They're not bad and the initial "low friction" quality can be good. But I find that over time the string bed exhibits greater friction compared to smooth poly crosses. That's what led me to Co Focus. I enjoyed Hepta Twist in some ways and John recommended CoFocus since it's the same material "untwisted".

    I'm in the process of buying another PSLGT so maybe I'll experiment with the B5E when first strung. A local chain is checking their inventory so I can get a certain unstrung balance and weight. Their Babloats have shrink wrap on the handle but no dampener and no display cardboard attached. At least I can get an accurate relative weight/balance (I'm looking for one at least 15 points head light unstrung and as light as possible).
     
    #59
  10. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    How did the gut/hepta twist hybrid go?
     
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  11. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    I am not so sure that Co-Focus is the same as Hepta? Co-Focus came out 2 years agp and Hepta just a few months ago. I wonder if someone at MSV could confirm?
     
    #61
  12. drummerdan

    drummerdan Semi-Pro

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    Update: After 2 days and 1 1/2 hrs hitting, the tension loss is only -2.5%. Needless to say, this setup is a keeper!
     
    #62
  13. muas1

    muas1 New User

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    Looks like I'm joining the club as well, used natural gut for the first time today. String Pacific Classic / MSV Focus Hex in a PK Redondo 98 at 48/46lbs. All I can say is it produced the most penetrating and deep spin I've gotten out of any setup, more than some full poly beds. The only problem I had with it was my one handed backhand slice which kept wanting to either go long or into the net. Otherwise serves had a ton of power and the pocketing on volleys and drop-shots was awesome. This will likely be my go-to setup going forward for hard-courts. Now I just have to find something that works well on clay for the summer season.
     
    #63
  14. Lambsscroll

    Lambsscroll Professional

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    You wanna start making a list of names that are in the club?
     
    #64
  15. endro

    endro New User

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    After reading through this thread and some posts by JT_2eighty I strung Pacific ToughGut and Mantis Power Poly at 58/56 in my KBT. It is a rocking setup...the crosses make for a firm, stiff stringbed with crisp responsive power, tons of spin as expected from a 'gutpoly' hybrid...one reason I strung it so tight is because the full gut setup on my other KBlade irked me with the so called 'trampoline' effect, but the power was addicting. This setup blows it out of the water IMO, as the power is about the same but spin has increased signifigantly. Haven't used it in match play yet but I predict the stiff crosses will pay dividends on volleys and serves. Will report on durability as I go along, but so far it is looking really good.
     
    #65
  16. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    Strung up some Hepta Twist last night. Wow, talk about coil memory!
    I've never seen a string wrap and coil and twist like this one during stringing. Really a negative for self stringers.
     
    #66
  17. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Jack

    How dis the gut/hepta hybrid go? Are you still using it? How long did it last?
     
    #67
  18. joeellis

    joeellis Rookie

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    I'm sometimes in this club I suppose. I go back and forth between Gamma LW XP and VS in the crosses. I like each strung @ 56 lbs. and paired with BB Ace mains, strung @ 52 lbs.
     
    #68
  19. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    It's Ok. Not worth the hassle though IMO. Lasted over a month.
     
    #69
  20. Viking_Golfer

    Viking_Golfer Rookie

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    I use VS Team mains at 30 kg and either AluRough or BlackSavage in the crosses at 28 kg - during the summer.

    In the winter I use VS Team gut mains at 28 kg and AluRough or BlackSavage crosses at 26 kg

    These are my preferred setups.
    I get 8-12 hours from one hybrid before it breaks or I cut it out :)
     
    #70
  21. Keifers

    Keifers Legend

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    Mains or crosses higher?

    In your gut mains/poly crosses hybrid, what are your reasons for string the mains higher, or the crosses higher?

    What strings and tensions do you use?

    Thanks.
     
    #71
  22. Viking_Golfer

    Viking_Golfer Rookie

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    You're asking me ?

    I prefer to string the softer VS Team natgut 2 kg higher because it's a soft string with more power.
    I prefer to string the stiffer Lux AluRough and BlackSavage 2 kg lower because it's a stiff string with less power.

    I NEVER use poly in the mains, although it also feels very good if you have natgut in the crosses - but I get better tension stability and feel from having the natgut in the mains and the copoly in the crosses.

    Only other setup I use is full bed of VS Team natgut @ 32 kg/65 lbs in my sole BLX Blade 98 18x20 racquet.
     
    #72
  23. tomp

    tomp Rookie

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    Hi All,

    I have half a set of VS Team 1.30 lying around so I thought I would give it a go in the mains with a poly cross.

    What Poly would be recommended considering that my normal setup is BB Ace mains and Mantis comfort crosses in a K Blade Tour.

    I was thinking something reasonably thin, might have some mosquite bite lying around somewhere?

    Any ideas appreciated.
     
    #73
  24. TaihtDuhShaat

    TaihtDuhShaat Semi-Pro

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    The Cyber Flash 1.20 is great for the first few hours as a cross.
    Silverstring 1.20 has lots of feel, spin, fair control.
    Scorpion 1.22 has fantastic control, ok spin, durable.
    The mosquito bite is a good choice although I've never tried.
     
    #74
  25. I Heart Thomas Muster

    I Heart Thomas Muster Semi-Pro

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    I'm joining the club tonight. To go easy on my tender wrist I bought Babolat Tonic 15L for the mains and Kirschbaum Pro Line II 16L for the crosses. Tension is up in air right now though. I normally play RPM/Gosen JC at 54/58, dropped to 51/55 which I did okay with so I'm thinking 54/52 with the gut/poly set up.

    Does that sound about right? Man I hope it doesn't break too quickly though.

    Thanks in advance for any advice. If this works out I'll probably do Tonic/Black5edge from here on out. If it doesn't work out then I'll probably try RPM/Gamma TNT at 48/52 and see what that's like.
     
    #75
  26. TaihtDuhShaat

    TaihtDuhShaat Semi-Pro

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    Gut mains @54 might send to many shots flying in a 16 main 100 sq. in. head size. Try the gut @58 in the mains, and the poly @54 in the crosses. It will still feel soft at this tension and give that great power/spin combo.
     
    #76
  27. Keifers

    Keifers Legend

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    I'm curious... How did you decide on RPM/Gosen JC with JC 4 lbs higher?

    (I'm wondering because the RPM would normally lose tension much faster (and more) than the JC.)

    Thanks.
     
    #77
  28. I Heart Thomas Muster

    I Heart Thomas Muster Semi-Pro

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    Thanks for the advice. I had similar thoughts about the power level so that's what I'll go with then. Thankfully the strings were my father's day gift so if I have to cut it out I won't feel too too bad.

    I look forward to joining your fine club.
     
    #78
  29. I Heart Thomas Muster

    I Heart Thomas Muster Semi-Pro

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    For me that felt like the most uniform stringing surface initially and because the Radical Pro chews through strings like no racquet I've used before, by the time the discrepancy becomes really noticeable I've generally broken the strings.

    And it's probably just me but the tension loss in RPM doesn't seem as great to me. Maybe because I've never used it in a full bed?
     
    #79
  30. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Sneak preview:

    [​IMG]

    Review coming soon!
     
    #80
  31. jjs891

    jjs891 Semi-Pro

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    I am currently using NRG2 17 in mains and various polys in the crosses. Although I really like the performance, durability is poor, I get 3-4 hrs of play before NRG snaps. I know that I'll like the performance of gut mains, but how long can I expect this set up to last if I use 16 gauge gut like Bab Tonic+ ?
     
    #81
  32. Viking_Golfer

    Viking_Golfer Rookie

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    One answer - try it !!

    But 8-12 hours would be a good guess :)
     
    #82
  33. rudester

    rudester Professional

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    Tried a little VS in the mains and black magic in crosses, very nice at 55/53 in PS85.
     
    #83
  34. TaihtDuhShaat

    TaihtDuhShaat Semi-Pro

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    What racquet and spec do you use? Your setup must bite the ball a ton to saw through the mains that fast. Gut could get expensive if you go through it just as fast. You might do better with a poly main and multifilament or gut cross, or just full poly.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2011
    #84
  35. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Actually imo the issue here is how smooth/polished the poly crosses are.

    Tour bite, for example, has a sharp edge to it that's responsible for its grippiness on the ball when used as mains: imo when used as crosses this is virtually certain to saw through any mains fast. Heptatwist, from what I've read, may avoid this due to its high number of twists so that there isn't a sharp edge constantly perpendicular to the mains.

    In any event, the risk of sawing can be easily compensated for by using string savers and avoiding saw-prone polys. The fact remains that the most power, spin and arm-friendliest combinations tend to be gut mains and poly crosses.

    But yes, I agree that the choice of strings used will be critical in prolonging hybrid durability.
     
    #85
  36. jjs891

    jjs891 Semi-Pro

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    I'm playing with Vantage 95 with 16x19 string pattern.
    ~12.3 oz strung 8pts HL

    I've used Genesis hexonic (hexagon shape), Weiscannon silverstring and PL 2 as crosses and it doesn't seem to make any differences in the durability of NRG main. Hexonic has sharp edges but other two are smooth and round I believe.

    I like the feel of having nrg in the mains for playability and arm comfort.
    I rather re-string often than risk having arm problem.
     
    #86
  37. jjs891

    jjs891 Semi-Pro

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    My question was how much more could I expect gut to last compared to NRG. If gut will last about the same, it'll be too expensive for me.
     
    #87
  38. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Because NRG is supposed to only have average durability for a multi, I'd guess a 16g gut could last 30-50% longer, depending on the brand, its coating, your stroke mechanics, stringing tension, etc.

    In the case of 16g gut, I've typically seen reports of it lasting around 20 hrs, even for 5.0+ players. If you're willing to use string savers with it, as long as you're not satellite tour caliber I'd see no reason why you can't get to at least 10.

    But in all honesty, there really is only one way for you to find out.

    Go for it!
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2011
    #88
  39. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    #89
  40. Mig1NC

    Mig1NC Professional

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    Great thread guys.

    I've run Pacific Tough Gut 17/Pacific Poly Force @ 53/50, VS Team / Alu Rough @ 58/55, and currently Pacific Prime / Recoil (yeah, not poly, but still...). I also tried some Global Gut, but it was junk compared to Pacific or Babolat.

    My next experiment will probably be the other half of my Pacific Prime and either Black Widow or Beast XP as the cross since I have all of that laying around the house.

    What do you guys thing? Should I use the Black Widow? Or the Beast XP?

    On one hand, the flat edged Black Widow may give better performance, but on the other hand, the Beast XP is supposed to have pretty even performance throughout its tension loss, which would be good since it is matching up with gut.
     
    #90
  41. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    I'm going to revive this as I really want to join the club.

    I am using the wilson 6.1 95. Just want to protect my arm from the full poly setups I love. I string full poly between 48-54#s depending on the string. My favorite setup is tour bite at 52#s.

    I currently have a mini reel of ALU power so that will be my cross. I also plan to buy some Cofocus since the price is right and you guys are raving about it.

    I am thinking 55/52 to start with. Does this provide a pretty loose feeling stringbed? I like a lot of spin. I also notice when I string a syngut past 55#s the Wilson gets a lot more lower powered and I have to hit a much flatter ball than I prefer.
     
    #91
  42. TaihtDuhShaat

    TaihtDuhShaat Semi-Pro

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    My brother hits with a lot of spin and likes low tensions in his BLX 16x18.

    He settled on 52/50 with Pacific classic 16g gut and B5E crosses.

    He tried a bunch of tensions from 53/49, 54/48, etc. and likes when the gut is a bit lower for the extra power. He also didn't like the poly above 50, too dead.

    The only thing is- when the poly is too close in tension to the gut, you feel the poly more. So we are gonna try going back to 53/49 or 54/48 again with the B5E crosses since we only did those with cofocus.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2012
    #92
  43. lefty10spro

    lefty10spro Semi-Pro

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    I don't mess around with the mains anymore. Pacific Tough Gut 16L is my winner - crisp, yet soft and durable. Right now my crosses are BBO and it feels a little plasticy. Beast XP 16 has a much plusher feel and the gut snaps back better with the Beast. I string my gut mains at 50lbs and the crosses at 45 in the Prince EXO3 Rebel 98. Spin it or flatten in out and have fun, fun, FUN!
     
    #93
  44. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    awesome..thanks. Gut at 52 is intriguing. I like that I can keep it low. Ill probably do a 54/50 combo just because the B5e is a very low powered poly and the ALU hits a little heavier.

    Ill start there and then edge down if I can.
     
    #94
  45. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    B5E crosses ate through my gut mains in 3 sets.
     
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  46. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    Im going to go ALU power and then when I run out try the MSV Cofocus.

    Ended up buying VS Touch. It was all they had at the shop. If I like this gut hybrid I will probably save some cash and try the Pacific.
     
    #96
  47. Nojoke

    Nojoke Rookie

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    I've used pacific classic mains and co-focus. Very nice. If you want a little crisper, swap the gut with klip legend tour. A crisper gut in everyone's favorite black color.

    I've got some sppp to try as a cross. I'm also very curious about that new pacific pro poly power (or something like that) that just garnered awesome reviews from rsi- link in racketholic thread- including supposedly amazing tension retension, which is a major thing I want from a poly cross.
     
    #97
  48. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    Well the tension off the stringer was 53 and my racquet was hitting huge huge balls. Maybe a little too huge for me, but i am going to work with it until the gut breaks. Awesome feel, the spin is very aggressive as well. I think the blx 6.1 may need to have the gut at 58, and i hit with heavy spin. It is just a powerful racquet and with the gut it becomes huge.

    One thing i like is that i can swing a lot easier..i just have to remember to do that..i did unload when i could and it is very powerful. I guess my main thing will be seeing how long the gut lasts if i could rotate 2 racquets and get 3 weeks from the gut that way, this may end up being a permanent switch. But if the gut breaks after a week or so, i dont know if i can justify the price..i know one thing..i really love gut..it is so kind on the arm and feels fantastic in the wilson.

    I do like alu power a lot, but the cofocus sounds like it could be rather nice and last longer.I did have movement though ( my stick is 16x18 ).in the mains. Nothing really major though, but it was not like my stringbed was locked in and never moved. It was not as bad as a multi though..just some movement, and the middle mains got seperated a little towards the end..not a huge deal though.
     
    #98
  49. Orion3

    Orion3 Semi-Pro

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    Count me in.

    My original hybrid was VS/BHBR and tried BHSR but most recently tried CoFocus as the cross and have been hugely impressed by it.

    I was cutting out the crosses regulary but the CoFocus seems to go on and on.

    I seem to have a problem in the UK getting CoFocus though, so am going to try Focus Hex as this seems more readily available. Using Elastocrosses in the sweetspot, so not too worried about notching.

    Tried a series of different tensions - 53/46, 53/47, 54/48, 54/49, 54/50, 55/50. Finally settled on 54/49 as it seemed to give me just the right amount touch, feel, control and controllable power.
     
    #99
  50. 2Hare

    2Hare Semi-Pro

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    Glad you are enjoying gut/alu :) you might want to raise just the main by 1 or 2 pounds while keeping the cross the same, that should give u less string movement. another thing you might want to try is string savers, in the Federer's pattern. that will limited the movement of the strings near(but not at) the strike zone, giving you better spins, a bit more control, and less string movement. Good luck!
     

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