The "Gutpoly High" Club

Discussion in 'Strings' started by JackB1, Mar 24, 2011.

  1. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    Im getting the string savers..good call. I guess you just slide them in after the first session of hitting?
     
  2. Orion3

    Orion3 Semi-Pro

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    Suggest you use babolat elastocrosses. They are PTFE/Teflon and allow the strings to slide.

    I put a fresh lot in each time I restring and it extends the life of the gut mains significantly, without a negative effect on playability.
     
  3. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    Awesome..that is what I got.

    I would like to string up 2 sticks, and alternate them and restring each every 3 weeks. Possibly unrealistic, since I hit pretty big with a lot of spin, but hopefully it works.

    I also bought some cofocus since it seems to be the way to go for a longer lasting, somfy poly cross from what I read here.
     
  4. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    +1 on the Babolat Elastocross. They are the easiest to install and change the feel of the stringbed the least. If you typically break strings in the same area of the racket, you can put them in there directly after stringing. The problem with waiting for notching is that they help less and less the later you put them in.
     
  5. Kcraig

    Kcraig Professional

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    DITTO--I use these once notching/fraying starts (usually around the 6hr mark).

    I'm getting ready to try out Pacific Classic 16L/MSV CoFocus 1.23 52/48. Should be able to test it out on Saturday
     
  6. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    This seems to be the setup.

    I can't string that low though on my stick. I have to go with 58/52 because the 6.1 95 is a boomer.

    Keep us posted on how long it lasts for you.
     
  7. Kcraig

    Kcraig Professional

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    This machine seems to always string a bit tighter. So my 52/48 is prolly closer to 56/52 on a crank. Can't wait to test it Saturday. Will hit 30min or so of singles then a few sets of 4.5 dubs. Will def report back.
     
  8. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    Strung up VSTouch and cofocus at 58/53. This is MUCH better in the 6.1 95. Makes the setup crisper and the racquet feel is more like a prestige. Also am using string savers. I just add them whenever I see notching or fraying.

    I dont see the need in buying ALU for the crosses. I think the Cofocus works better in terms of spin. I know that sounds weird, but this was very obvious on approach shots that I had to pick up from a low bounce and use heavy spin to put into a corner.

    I will most likely cut out the ALU crosses and put in cofocus in my first stick..that should tighten up the string bed a little and also give me a more comfortable feel. the ALU dies so fast.
     
  9. Kcraig

    Kcraig Professional

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    What gauge Co-Focus are you using. Had my first run with Pacific Classic/CoFocus 1.23 on Sat and it was ok but actually felt a tad sluggish--think the extra weight of gut and poly coupled with the 4g of lead I have a 3.5/9.5 may have added too much to SW. Going to remove the lead and try that. In comparison, same lead setup and 17g Kirschbaum has more feel, spin and control. LOVE THAT STRING!!
     
  10. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    I used 1.23. plays great as a cross.
     
  11. Posture Guy

    Posture Guy Professional

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    Cool thread.

    I've got a Volkl V1 Classic Mid. I demoed a number of hybrids, all with Pacific Classic mains. B5E was just a bit too muted and underpowered. Scorpion actually gave me elbow pain and I never get elbow pain. I'm LOVING Co-Focus in my crosses. Using 17g in both, tensions of 60/56.

    I'm thinking about trying Hepta just to see if it feels different.

    And I just strung up a stick with Performaxx gut in the mains, otherwise identical setup. Haven't hit with it yet.
     
  12. TaihtDuhShaat

    TaihtDuhShaat Semi-Pro

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    Scorpion crosses also give me some sharp pain once they've been in the racquet for a while. I noticed it on a late struck forehand return of serve.
     
  13. Posture Guy

    Posture Guy Professional

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    For me, it was instant. Within 15 minutes of hitting with Classic/Scorpion, I had an elbow problem. Never had that with CoFocus. And that's interesting to me because they felt and played very comparably.
     
  14. TaihtDuhShaat

    TaihtDuhShaat Semi-Pro

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    I'm going to switch back to cofocus crosses- the gut slid much better on it than scorpion, too!

    How big is the headsize and string pattern of the v1 mid?
     
  15. Nojoke

    Nojoke Rookie

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    anyone try sppp as a cross? I strung up 1.18 SPPP yesterday with classic mains. I like the co-focus, but wanted to see if SPPP held tension as well as everyone claims.
     
  16. Posture Guy

    Posture Guy Professional

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    Nojoke....i'm interested to hear your take on it, especially compared to co-focus. I haven't tried it, but it's kind of floated around on my radar. have heard others mention it positively.
     
  17. Nojoke

    Nojoke Rookie

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    I'll keep you posted.

    Joe
     
  18. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    the cofocus just is the way to go for me. Once, because if I try every string, ill go mad..lol.

    But also, when you just step on the gas and rip the ball, it feels perfect in my 6.1. Crisp like a prestige almost. The spin is very very aggressive as well.
     
  19. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    Try the new KLIP Natural Gut TOUR - it is coated and plays great and lasts a long time.

    While you are at it, try both MSV Co-Focus and Signum Pro Poly Plasma 18 gauge as cross strings - both soft, playable, and slippery (and CHEAP).
     
  20. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    VStouch and cofocus is a winner for me. Magic tension is 58-60 on the mains and 53 on the crosses. It is so far holding tension at 50 after dropping from 55 from 3 hours of play. Incredible control, power and spin... it really brings out all the qualities of the 6.1. Best feel ever. I ak putting string savers where i see fraying and that keeps the tension at bay as well.

    Honestly amazing. If i can keep the strings lasting long enough, this will be my setup. It feels perfect for how i hit, feel is incredible in the racquet, and the spin is incredible.
     
  21. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    I saw Klip Legend for $25 so I grabbed a pack. I also grabbed MSV HeptaTwist since the gauge of CoFocus I like was out.

    So I should be stocked up for a little bit I hope. I am guessing the same tension of 58/53 should work with these strings as well.

    Loving the gutpoly. Life changer.

    Sounds like a canon when I make contact now.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2012
  22. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    After a lot of tinkering with tensions and cross strings, I would definitely put the Co-Focus 1.18 and WC Silverstring 1.20 at the top of the list for playtests with any gut. They are two of the top ten rated polys on Stringforum and all-around solid poly values for the dollar. Chris Edwards also recently suggested I try WC Misquito Bite 1.15 as an alternative to the MSV - which I plan to give a try.

    I have found the MSV Co-Focus offers a bit more spin and power for this set up as opposed to the Silverstring. The Silverstring - on the other hand - felt a bit more crisp and precise, yet still very comfortable. Solid, with decent power, yet with good control. A bit less power and spin than the MSV, but perhaps with a bit more feel and tension stability. I suspect the MSV will play better for some in a tighter string pattern or stiffer frame as a cross string, while the Silverstring might be preferable in a more flexible frame.

    Anyone ever tried the WC Silverstring 1.20 as an option to the MSV Co-Focus 1.18 as a cross? How about Mosquito Bite?
     
  23. Nojoke

    Nojoke Rookie

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    Time for an update comparing my experience with sppp w co focus. Mains with both were pacific classic 17 at 54, poly crosses at 48. My racket is a bb legend weighted to 12 ounces with lead and leather. Sppp was 1.18 and co focus was 1.23. Have about 16 hours on cofocus hybrid and 3 on sppp, so the comparision is preliminary.

    Cofocus seems to get better each time i hit with it. I'd imagine it must be dead by now, but the feel and spin get better each time out as the gut mains dominate the feel. The gut is starting to fray and i have about 8 string savers in the frame. Big item here is dwell time--already a specialty of the bb legend, kicked up a notch with the hybrid. Power and control compliment each other very well. Spin drops balls in deep. Moderate swings generate a ball with good loop and late drop. Plush is the word i'd use.

    Sppp time is limited in comparison. Despite the thinner gauge, i find the sppp to be stiffer and less powerful. Not a bad stiff, just stiffer. Comparatively, the sppp hits a flatter ball. Really lets you jump on service returns. Touch/feel is good, but not plush. The string is very smooth, so i anticipate spin and feel will continue to increase as notches develop. I find once a "track" is notched into the mains, spin increases.

    Thus far, I wouldn't say I like sppp better, but it is plenty good to keep in the racket to see how durability and playing time equal to the cofocus pans out. If you like to hit a bit of a flatter ball, the sppp cross may be up your alley. I played three sets of singles yesterday and was able to switch between the rackets easily. Right now the cofocus racket feels incredible and gives me the confidence to play aggressive. I will keep alternating, but will stick with cofocus for matches that count in league in two weeks.

    Joe
     
  24. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    You might all find this interesting, as well. From an article by Joshua Speckman in Tennis Player Magazine this month:

    "Federer is one of the few pros today that played with full natural gut for a significant part of his career. He was pretty good with it too, beating Sampras at Wimbledon in 2001 with a full bed of gut. So why did he add copoly strings to the mix?"

    "Spin control," answers Ferguson. "Spin is part of control, and he gains both. Definitely more spin, and with that comes control. And with that control he can string way down low. He strings at 21.5 or 22 kilos (47 or 48.5 pounds)," he adds."

    "Federer's setup actually bears some resemblance to spaghetti strings, as that invention also used natural gut in the mains and a synthetic in the crosses. Many players find the combination of extremely elastic gut mains with stiff, hard and slick copoly crosses to be as, or more, spin-friendly than a full bed of copoly, while also being more comfortable, powerful and giving better feel for the ball."

    "In string-on-string friction tests, tennis equipment researcher Crawford Lindsey found that gut mains slide with less friction along copoly crosses than any other string or string combination. And he found that - unlike other strings, where notching ramps up friction and disables the snapback mechanism – inter-string friction actually gets lower as the notches get deeper."

    "Why? Natural oils seep out of the gut at the notches and lubricate the string intersections. This suggests that a gut/poly hybrid might retain its spin-generating potential for longer than any other string or combination. Well, at least until the gut breaks."

    "Surprisingly, the opposite configuration – poly mains/gut crosses – slides much less easily. Lindsey says the two materials are sticky in reverse perhaps because the surface of the gut crosses quickly abrades, pulling up microscopic fibers that get hung up on the copoly mains as they try to slide."

    The full article can be found on Tennisplayer.net.

    Other referenced articles on the subject in this article that may be useful or of interest:

    Crawford Lindsey, aka "The Professor", has published the most through, useful and up-to-date collection of scientific papers on strings and spin available. For those who want to learn more about the subject, or about other aspects of tennis equipment, there's no better resource.
    C. Lindsey's Tennis Warehouse University
    Lindsey's groundbreaking experiments on strings and spin:
    "What Strings Generate the Most Spin?"
    "Spin and String Pattern"
    "String Friction Database"
    "Spin and String Stiffness"
    "String Lubrication & Movement in Spin"
     
  25. Posture Guy

    Posture Guy Professional

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    Wow, Fed strings really low.

    I'm stringing my Volkl V1 at 58/54. I wonder how it would feel if I went 50/46. Would love to try, but I hate the idea of potentially wasting a half set of gut along with the time to do it just to try it and maybe hit for 3 minutes and go "ugh, no way".
     
  26. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    According to John Youngblood at Guts and Glory - for most people - you should never string poly above 48 pounds for maximum playability and comfort. You can check the website for a very detailed explanation on their blog "CGT Extra". I find some great information there.

    For the record, from the information I can find, Federer currently strings his Wilson racquet with Wilson Natural Gut/Luxilon Big Banger Alu Power Rough 48.5/44lbs.

    Mike Bryan is uses Prince Natural Gut/Luxilon Big Banger TiMo 54/51lbs.

    Novak Djokovic uses Head Natural Gut/Luxilon Big Banger Alu Power Rough 55/52lbs.
     
  27. Posture Guy

    Posture Guy Professional

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    Well sheeeeiit, now I've got some thinkin' to do.

    I've got a set of Prince Nat Gut coming. But I think maybe I'll experiment with the last half reel I have of Pac Classic with the CoFocus at the lower tension before I use the pricier stuff. Just concerned I'm going to experience a significant loss of control and an increase in power with that tension drop.
     
  28. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    I am hitting right now with the same set-up as noted in my signature at 50/46 due to the cooler weather and it feels pretty sweet. I usually string down a couple pounds in the Winter when the poly gets cold and stiff and the balls get harder.
     
  29. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    I think he says 53#s, but yeah..it can lose elasticity when strung too high.
     
  30. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia Professional

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    Nice thread. How did I miss it?

    I'm sure I'll have some stuff to ask/add pretty soon, but I want to test a few more things out first.
     
  31. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia Professional

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    Oh, actually I do have something to ask. Earlier in the thread, string savers were mentioned. Anyone have updates on their usage? What's the methodology in applying them (I break in almost the same place every time, a place I wish was lower on the frame). I'm almost worried I may let the gut last too long if I start using string savers and stuff because of dead poly, even in a hybrid. If it's still playable and feels good, should I worry about long term effects that maybe I can't feel? Thoughts?
     
  32. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    Dewd use the babolat string savers. They are a must for the gut poly 2012 tennis takeover.
     
  33. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia Professional

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    Once I get my setup 100% worked out, I'll definitely give them a shot. Any advice on the pattern of application? Any thoughts on my hesitation b/c of the poly?
     
  34. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia Professional

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    And I have a question about gut/poly in general: how much do you guys think the gauges matter in this configuration, since isn't most of the spin just coming from the sliding of the gut on the poly?
     
  35. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    No pattern. U put them where u see fraying..its easy man. Ewe will sea.
     
  36. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia Professional

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    Okay, cool. So no added stiffness where I put them?
     
  37. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    Tension goes up a little but you will have lost tension from hitting so its cool. Dont stress..just get the babo savers and put them in when u sea fraying.

    Saves u $$$$$$$$ and feels good man.
     
  38. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia Professional

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    Okay, thanks. So no risk of making the setup last too long and having dead, dangerous poly? Any input on my above gauge question?
     
  39. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    I use 17. Cofocus is soft so when it dies its no biggie at all.
     
  40. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia Professional

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    Thanks for all your help! I just worried a bit about Scorpion, and then started to wonder about gauges with all this string sliding stuff.
     
  41. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    Thats mad ocd...lol.just have a beer and go hit and you wont care anymore about the other stuff.
     
  42. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia Professional

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    OCD? How so?
     
  43. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    Ur over thinking. Just dive in and after a few maches you will know what you will want to change (if anything) .

    I had one setup with the tension too low, i fixed it and switched to cofocus crosses and now im happy. So it took 2 string jobs to dial it in perfect.
     
  44. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    Wouldn't putting string savers in lock the strings in place and reduce spin?
     
  45. Power Player

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    I dont notice much spin reduction to be honest.
     
  46. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia Professional

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    Some people even say it increases spin.
     
  47. Posture Guy

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    So is the magic 'do not exceed' number 48 or 53?

    And Big Kahuna, you live in SoCal and yet tension down because of the winter weather? What, did it drop from 78 to 71?

    :)
     
  48. Posture Guy

    Posture Guy Professional

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    And I'm interested in the string saver discussion. I just bought some elastocross thingies. Never used them, still might not. I'm not a string breaker. I typically have no problem getting 20 hours out of a string job, and by that point it's time to cut them out anyway. Usually by that point the gut looks like it's pretty close to blowing, but hasn't happened yet.
     
  49. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    It's 53 when I read it. I don't know if there is a magic number, but generally you want to stay at 53 or lower.
     
  50. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    If strings last you 20 hours, send your string savers my way. :)
     

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