The J011yRoger Bet

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by tfm1973, Jan 6, 2010.

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  1. Ultra2HolyGrail

    Ultra2HolyGrail Hall of Fame

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    Florida does not have 3.5 usta tournaments?



    What's his rating? And yes i know ranking and ratings are different, but you could be rated a 4.5 and not been playing for years and want to enter a 4.0 tournament. UNLESS you where ranked at the top just in the last year i believe they would let you play. They just don't look up ratings to determine in you can play. Rankings are a much more important factor.


    You obviously don't have a clue.
     
  2. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    If you have never beaten a 5.0, and have received plenty of bagels, you would not be a 5.0.

    If you have never beaten a 4.5, and have received plenty of bagels, you would not be a 4.5.

    Therefore, we conclude this player is at most 4.0.

    However, if this same player struggled against a 3.0, what would you put this player at?



    As for Jo11y's result in his latest match, I think he should feel good about the score. That is a solid match. Does this make him a 5.0? You be the judge.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2010
  3. Topaz

    Topaz Legend

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    *sigh*

    Ok, one more time.

    You posted these two posts...

    Right? You posted these things? These are words that you yourself wrote. And I am *trying* to explain to you that:

    #1 - Drak's rating is too high for him to enter a 3.5 tournament IN ANY STATE.

    #2 - There is no such thing as being 'ranked in 4.0-5.0 ntrp in florida' as you stated above in the bold. Ntrp is one thing. Rankings are another. And NTRP is NATIONAL. It is not dependent on state.

    #3 - If Drak wants his rating public, that is up to him to post. But I assure you, he is not able to play an NTRP 3.5 tournament, again, IN ANY STATE.

    Absolutely no where did I state that.

    Again, that is not my business to post.

    The bolded part is incorrect. To play in an NTRP tournament, like you yourself challenged Drak to do and I quoted above, you enter your USTA# into the system, and that brings up your computer rating (if you have one). They don't have to look it up because, if you have a computer rating, it is already in the system. It is already right there. You have to wait a certain number of years (changes based on your age) for your rating to no longer be in the computer. Then you can start over.

    At no time can someone with a computer 4.5 rating play an NTRP 4.0 (or lower). Period. Rankings play no part in this. PERIOD.

    I might not, but next to you, I look like freakin' Einstein.

    I'm not typing all this out for you again. You're not worth my time.
     
  4. JHBKLYN

    JHBKLYN Rookie

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    I can bandage a paper cut, does that make me a doctor?

    I can change an air filter, does that make me a mechanic?

    I can plunger a toilet, does that make me a plumber?

    So no, if you can't beat a 4.0 in an actual match, you are not a 4.5!!!!!!!!
     
  5. Ultra2HolyGrail

    Ultra2HolyGrail Hall of Fame

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    This is where you don't have a clue again. Ratings are well beneath rankings. You could lay off tennis for 5 years and your name and rating would probably still be in the system. THEY WOULD NOT FORCE YOU TO PLAY YOUR RATING. Especially if you where never RANKED in the usta ntrp rankings. Like i said, some hackers could make there own 5.0 team and ALL get 5.0 ratings. It can be and is many times Meaningless.




    Again, you really dont have a clue here. I would virtually gurantee drak could enter a 3.5 tournament and be accepted, because i highly doubt he is ranked in usta ntrp 4.0-4.5 in florida. He probably was on a 4.5 team to get his 'rating' i suspect.
     
  6. Topaz

    Topaz Legend

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    Exactly, well put.
     
  7. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    ^^ultra, no one who is rated 5.0, is allowed to play down in a league or tourney (4.5, 4.0, 3.5, etc)


    no one who is rated 4.5, is allowed to play down in a league or tourney (4.0, 3.5, 3.0, etc)

    no one who is rated 4.0, is allowed to play down in a league or tourney (3.5, 3.0, 2.5, etc)

    This is the very reason the USTA has a **rating** system. So people are playing at their level.
     
  8. JHBKLYN

    JHBKLYN Rookie

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    With that said, I was once ranked 271st in Open Men's Singles and you were ranked 37th in Open Women's singles and nobody can dispute that!

    Of course, there's more that meets the eye but what people don't know won't hurt them .. :wink:
     
  9. Ultra2HolyGrail

    Ultra2HolyGrail Hall of Fame

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    They also take into consideration of your ntrp ranking or lack of. If you where not ranked at all in 4.5's ntrp in florida just in the last year i would bet you could get into a 3.5-4.0 tournament. For sure 4.0. This is how they determine seeds. Rankings. Not ratings.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2010
  10. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    NO. YOU CAN'T. PERIOD. ONLY WAY FOR ONE TO DO THIS IS TO APPEAL THEIR RATING. IF THEIR APPEAL IS GRANTED, THEY WOULD BE DROPPED FROM 4.5 TO 4.0, 3.5 TO 3.0, ETC.

    THE END RESULT WOULD BE, THAT THEY WOULD NO LONGER BE A 4.5. THEY WOULD BE A 4.0, ETC.
     
  11. Topaz

    Topaz Legend

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    Well, and that is why there are ratings and then rankings, and while there is usually a correlation between the two...anomalies do happen!

    We don't get many women in our Open tournaments around here (which is odd given that I'm in a metropolitan area)...so I may try my hand at it again this year!
     
  12. Ultra2HolyGrail

    Ultra2HolyGrail Hall of Fame

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    This might be true for usta teams. But for tournaments i know it's not true.
     
  13. JHBKLYN

    JHBKLYN Rookie

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    Are you sure of your info or are you just speculating? If you are a USTA rated 4.0, you cannot enter a USTA Sanctioned 3.5 tournament, at least not online, and that is a fact. There's no checkbox that asks you if you are ranked in any 4.0 lists. The only way is to have the tournament director put you in manually.
     
  14. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    If the tournament is for example, a "3.5 singles tournament", a 4.0 or higher CANNOT ENTER! Period.

    If a tournament is for example, a **WOMENS** 3.5 singles tournament, NO MALE CAN ENTER. ADDITIONALLY, no female rated 4.0 or above can enter.

    You are confusing ratings with rankings.

    Yes, there are "rankings" for say 4.0 players. One could be "ranked" #1 4.0 in the state of Florida. And whatever 4.0 tournament he enters, he would be seeded #1 based on his "ranking" at the 4.0 level.

    This is not to be confused with "national rankings" for OPEN tournaments, or age divisions.

    You seriously need to get a rating, and go play some leagues before you try and educate those of us who do, on how the system works.
     
  15. Ultra2HolyGrail

    Ultra2HolyGrail Hall of Fame

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    So are you telling me if you sign up for a 4.0 tournament, type in your credit card info and pay, after a 5 year layoff, and your computer sytem rating is 4.5, they are going to force you to play 4.5 and above? Is the computer going to say denied, you are rated a 4.5 and can not enter? I'm not sure but i doubt it.
     
  16. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Yes. You will be denied.

    For starters, you would need to become a USTA member, and pay the registration fee to become a USTA member. Once you sign up to the USTA it will pull up your records (if you had any). If you were rated 4.5, it will keep you there. It will provide and activate your usta memberhip #. Of course, much of this is dependent on how long it has been, and other factors.

    From there, you could sign up for a tourney/league, but have to give your usta #. If you try and sign up for a 3.0 tournament, and you are rated at 3.5 or above, you will be denied and not allowed to play.
     
  17. Ultra2HolyGrail

    Ultra2HolyGrail Hall of Fame

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    Please educate me on how you got rated?
     
  18. JHBKLYN

    JHBKLYN Rookie

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    I will bet a million dollars you can't. But I'll save you the money. I just did a test for a 3.0-4.5 tournament and the only tournaments I'm eligible for are the 4.0 and 4.5 tourneys. I don't pay any money unless I select the tournaments I'm playing in.

    Maybe you Florida guys have a different system but I don't know what else to tell you, try it yourself:

    http://tennislink.usta.com/tournaments/playerregistration/registerplayer.aspx?T=84956
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2010
  19. DownTheLine

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    I still haven't figured out how people can call Jolly a 3.5 If so I guess I am a 2.0-2.5.
     
  20. Topaz

    Topaz Legend

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    ^^^Based on results in matches.
     
  21. Topaz

    Topaz Legend

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    The silence is deafening!
     
  22. Ultra2HolyGrail

    Ultra2HolyGrail Hall of Fame

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    Yes it is. Drakulie is being very quite ;)
     
  23. Claudius

    Claudius Professional

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    I've seen his videos and he isn't that good. His forehand is technically unsound.
     
  24. JHBKLYN

    JHBKLYN Rookie

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    Unfortunately, you don't get rated by how hard you serve, how massive your groundstrokes are, how accurate your vollies are, or how beautiful your backhand angles are. You get rated by match play results. From what I read, they are going by tournament results which may or may not be accurate because the 3.5 or 4.0's he lost to could've been self-raters who rated too low. But with no USTA league matches to draw stats from, there's nothing else to get a rating from.
     
  25. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    I used your logic.

    DownTheLine, if you play one thousand matches against 5.0 players and lose every single one of them without ever winning a set would you be a 5.0? This player would be at most a 4.5

    Now, if this same "4.5" played a million matches against other 4.5's and never won a match, would you say he is a 4.5? This players would be at the 4.0 level.

    etc. etc.

    That is how one could figure it out. NTRP rating has nothing to do with how hard someone hits the ball, or how many frames they have, or how pretty their strokes look, etc.

    I find it hard to believe people don't understand this.
     
  26. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    I thought that if you had a rating and then didn't play for five years, you could then self-rate at any level you wanted consistent with USTA ratings guidelines. True? False?
     
  27. Frankauc

    Frankauc Professional

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    it's because jolly only posts vbids of him rallying and not missing one ball. So it can be misleading just looking at his vids. Real matchplay is different.

    for some people its the opposite

    If you watch me exchanging some balls with a friend, you will probably underestimate me. It's because my abilitly to chase ball, defense, mental toughness isnt shown in normal practice..
     
  28. Ultra2HolyGrail

    Ultra2HolyGrail Hall of Fame

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    Sure drak, cmon now you can not fool ultra. How the heck did you manage to get on a 4.5 team? :) Was it one of them phone a team things where you phone in with your name and a team captain calls you to play?

    Or did you get it by playing ntrp 4.5 singles and beating other players?
     
  29. JHBKLYN

    JHBKLYN Rookie

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    I think it depends on what one means by "good." First of all, if you can hit a 150mph serve and a 130mph forehand, and a 120mph backhand, does it matter how your form looks? I'm sure we've all seen players who look great hitting the ball during practice but crumble during match play. And I'm sure we've seen players who look terrible but are great match play players. The obvious example is Fabrice Santoro. How the heck is he a pro with that slice forehand???

    When I look at his or anyone's videos, I don't care about their form, I look at where the serve lands, where the forehands and backhands goes, what kind of winners he hits, and if they win or lose the match. And looking at Jolly's recent vids from an amateure's pov - I considered a 5.0 to be real good, his serves and shots look pretty good.

    But the reality is, unless we make money playing professional tennis, I don't care if you're a 5.0, 5.5, 6.0 or 6.5, we are really not that good. :)
     
  30. Ultra2HolyGrail

    Ultra2HolyGrail Hall of Fame

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    Technically you can just look at their form, technique, footwork, confidence level, just by watching them hit and not even look where the ball is going. You can tell a advanced player just by this. You can't 'hide' your level. Even if you pick the best videos of you making the best shots.
     
  31. JHBKLYN

    JHBKLYN Rookie

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    If that was true, colleges would only need to sign up players watching their recruitment videos. Why bother flying in recruits and watch them play against their players. But as never judge a book by its cover, what you see is sometimes not what you get.

    From what I've read here, videos of Santoro, Nadal and Verdasco were shown and people thought they were 4.5's or something where they were not "pro" level.

    Some of the most difficult videos to judge are the 3.0 to maybe some 4.5 players. You can't tell if they are capable of winning matches by how they look.
     
  32. Ultra2HolyGrail

    Ultra2HolyGrail Hall of Fame

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    Of'course results are the only thing that matters. But not many really good players look horrible on video, or in person when you watch them play. There are things they all have in common. Sure some players like santoro has goofy looking strokes, but if you watch him you will see, strokes aside, he has great footwork, and moves well. And can charge the net, split step, as good as anyone. These are all things advanced players recognize from one another. Footwork and other things are easy to see if one is advanced. Hitting a bunch of shots comming straight at you in a video is not impressive. Of'course it's how you play in a real match, and results, are what's most important. That's the point here. And also that videos of 100mph serves, hitting shots comming straight at you, your rating, are meaningless unless you can win in real match results. That's all that matters.
     
  33. canuckfan72

    canuckfan72 New User

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    Hey, when i was 12 i made the mistake of entering a U14 Boys *** Champs Tournament. I got lucky and the first match i played was against some 14 year old show off who i was able to beat in a close match. But then my second match was against the eventual runner up for the singles and Doubles (partner was singles champion) Champion. I lost 6-0 6-0 and got a nice "Don't Worry About It". Little did i know i ended up with like 40 points (30 for win and 10 for loss) and ended up being ranked 32nd in the Boys U14 Champs division in all of BC. I bragged to my friends about it for the rest of the summer.
     
  34. Mansewerz

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    Hey Topaz, i'm a junior and i'd like to know if there's a way to check my rank on the USTA website. How do I do this?
     
  35. Claudius

    Claudius Professional

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    Mansewerz, do you have a TR profile?
     
  36. purple-n-gold

    purple-n-gold Professional

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    League coordinator the other night mentioned a new rule that even if a player were to "sit out" 3 years they will now have to self rate at where they had been rated at previously.

    Read my above post again slowly.....btw, there's not a team captain that I know of that's gonna have a player on their team that cannot be competitive at that level.
     
  37. Topaz

    Topaz Legend

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    Try this:

    http://tennislink.usta.com/tournaments/rankings/rankinghome.aspx

    And put in your info for section, year, etc.

    This is assuming you've earned a ranking playing tournaments? So, if you've played boys 18 singles, put in boys 18 singles for your division.

    Let me know if it works...I've never looked up juniors, but I would assume it is the same. Looks like you could also just enter your USTA #.
     
  38. Mansewerz

    Mansewerz Legend

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    Highly doubt it.

    I'm 0-2, so i don't think I have a ranking yet.

    But my results showed up on the tennis link. Thanks Topaz!
     
  39. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Hey dude, I can't do the 6-8 weekdays, because I have to be at work at 8.

    Weekends would probably be best for me.

    Alley pond is better than NTC, closer for me as I am out on the island.

    If I could con you into coming to Glen Head which should be around half way for both of us, I can get a reasonably priced court.

    J
     
  40. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Was fine after the match, was fine all day today, around 5pm it started to bother me, and by the time I was leaving practice tonight carrying my racquet with the broken string, it was all that I could do to resist caving it on a telephone pole in the parking lot.

    Holding my head high is the last thing I would do after losing to anyone, by any score.

    Playing for real sucks.

    J
     
  41. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    I didn't serve particularly well, especially in the first set, less than 10 for sure, and only 1 on the 2nd serve. He was around the same, might have edged me by a couple.

    I never keep track of aces, I hit them all the time so it isn't anything special. I keep track of bad stuff like UEs or DFs if anything. Aces and unreturnables just come when you get loose and are feeling it, some days I have it, and some I don't, but nothing to try for. I would rather keep track of bad things, because I hate sucking more than I enjoy playing well.

    J
     
  42. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Close, in the beginning I made some errors in judgement about the conditions and the state of my body, fell behind 0-4 pretty quickly, realized what was going on and righted the ship. Was 2 points from serving for 2nd set, but I coughed it.

    I think I am going to have to start playing my practice matches with a 5 minute warmup, so I get used to having to warm up and evaluate what I have that day quickly, as I currently practice/drill for 1/2-1 hour, and then play practice sets.

    I joined the biggest ladder on LI, and have been wrecking shop there, and it helps with the matchplay, but it isn't the same because the caliber of opponent isn't nearly as good as those in the tournaments.

    Right now I feel like I am 75% of my practice match self in tournament matches, so hopefully being healthy and playing a bunch of tournaments will help me close that gap. Still a practice court hero, but scraping and clawing to close the gap.

    Fortunately I haven't had a day where I completely forget how to play in a couple of months, then again, indoor season really gives my game a shot in the arm, so maybe head in ass syndrome will have a recurrence when the outdoor season begins.

    J
     
  43. canuckfan72

    canuckfan72 New User

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    I totally agree with Jolly here. Its more important to know what you're doing wrong then to know what you're doing right.

    canuckfan
     
  44. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    You can hit lots of good shots in a point, but only one bad one.

    J
     
  45. mtommer

    mtommer Hall of Fame

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    I'm sure drakulie could be creative and figure out a way to enter a 3.5 tourney to meet your challenge.
     
  46. Frankauc

    Frankauc Professional

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    about aces in 2 sets is really good!

    how many unforced errors?
     
  47. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    6 or 700 :)

    J
     
  48. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Why? We all know that Ultra2 doesn't pay up when he looses.

    J
     
  49. mtommer

    mtommer Hall of Fame

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    Well, he did say he would do escrow sooooo.....
     
  50. fluffy Beaver

    fluffy Beaver Professional

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    hmm and the arrogance continues.
     
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