The J011yroger guide to strings.

Discussion in 'Strings' started by J011yroger, Mar 8, 2008.

  1. Uncle Emmitt

    Uncle Emmitt Rookie

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    JR,

    what poly main gage would you use in a 16 x 18 pattern? I hit with a bb pro and it seemed maybe a 16 would work better in this than a 17 gage, It was a demo though so it was some loosely strung multi. and was moving all over the place and seemed like it was almost too open.

    I normally use PDR w/PHT 17gage 63lbs. on mains and xcel 16gage 63 lbs. on crosses.

    Like your input.

    Thanks,
    UE
     
  2. Uncle Emmitt

    Uncle Emmitt Rookie

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    :mrgreen:eek:h yea almost forgot to tell you, great post !!:mrgreen:

    going advanced w/ Mr. Green,

    is sooooooooooo cooooolllllllllllllllllllll :mrgreen:

    I'm rather easily amused :rolleyes:
     
  3. 0range

    0range Hall of Fame

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    tt...ttw....twenty.... :shock:
     
  4. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Somebody has to be wierd, I do an admirable job.

    J
     
  5. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    I would just use your normal setup. If you were going from an 18x20 to a 16x18 then maybe start with the thicker string. But those two you listed should be pretty similar.

    If you break the 17g too fast then you could bump to the 16, but to change what you currently use and like due to some bogus demo string is a bit silly.

    J
     
  6. Uncle Emmitt

    Uncle Emmitt Rookie

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    Thanks JR,

    Makes sense
     
  7. 0range

    0range Hall of Fame

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    Jo11y if I found out that my stringer had strung my racquet using one piece of string instead of two piece specified by my racquet manufacture, should I be pissed?
     
  8. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    I wouldn't be.

    J
     
  9. yebo

    yebo Rookie

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    no theres nothing wrong with a one piece stringing
     
  10. crazy8tiger

    crazy8tiger Rookie

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    Hey jo11y, is there a multi string you would recommend similar to NXT but a bit cheaper? I am going to add a leather grip to my Dunlop and now I want to move away from poly for the time being.
     
  11. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Nothing really springs to mind, but I am sure there is something out there.

    I hate Regular NXT.

    NXT Tour, and NRG2 are the ones I like.

    J
     
  12. Mansewerz

    Mansewerz Legend

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    Maxim touch from Pro supex?
     
  13. Nanshiki

    Nanshiki Hall of Fame

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    I find that NXT is kind of bouncy even when it's prestretched at 65 pounds... rather poor spin potential too.

    I want to try some Xcel Premium, which I hear has better control and softer feel.
     
  14. talock

    talock Rookie

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    jo11y, i just started playing consistently again after an 8 year layoff (was at about a 4.5 level back then, but haven't been rated since coming back to the game), after about three months back in the game i seem to finally have my spin and power/racquet head speed back where it was when i stopped playing. When i started again, i picked up where i left off -- POG Mid, PSGD 16 at 58# -- so i would have a baseline to judge any changes. this is the string i played then, but i was in high school/early college and i needed things for cheap, so i would by syngut and have my coach string it for me. I've never been a huge string breaker, but have been looking to maybe test out a higher quality of string, and preferably something with a bit more control. My new coach immediately recomended i get a hybrid with poly in the mains. this doesn't sound right to me, since i'm not breaking the PSGD consistently anyway. I seen you've reccomended NRG2 several times to people who seem to be in a similar situation, but what about a full gut job?

    I guess i'm asking, if i have the money to spend, would a full gut (like VS) be preferrable to full multi (like NRG2) for both durability AND playability? Would there be any advantage to hybrid in this situation?
     
  15. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    Xcel is pretty sweet. It's one of the best feeling multi's out there, no doubt. Definitely the closest to gut that I've tried so far. Not too high powered either, at least for me. But then again, nothing's too high powered for me. I use full Babolat VS at 50 lbs, and I'm considering going down to 45 on my next string job.

    One of the OSU coaches gave me a free set of NXT, so I'll let you know how it feels as well.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2008
  16. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    Yes, a quality gut string is just better than any multi out of there. It's that simple.

    P.S. Wow, over 2000 posts now. I'm starting to enter the no life zone. :)
     
  17. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Wow, POG mid, my old frame. The string eater of all time. Cant imagine PSGD 16 lasting more than 15-20 mins in that sucker for me.

    Anyhow, now that the nostalgia has passed.

    The NRG2 is a fine string, if you are looking for something with a bit more muted feel and a bit more pop Prince Premiere is a pretty darned nice string too.

    And well, you have just got to try gut once.

    How long does the PSGD last you?

    If more than a couple weeks, then give the gut a shot or one of the multis. If a week or less then you might want to try a softer poly hybrid.

    J
     
  18. Nanshiki

    Nanshiki Hall of Fame

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    I've got PSGO so old that it's labeled just Prince Synthetic Gut in my Spectrum, which is the same pattern as the POG and I still can't break that junk. But it's dead and I'm going to replace it with some Isospeed I got.

    Regular NXT gets pretty gross after a few hours... just feels nasty, plus it loses control and never really had any spin potential to begin with.
     
  19. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Regular NXT is garbage.

    NXT Tour is a good string.

    I pity those who mistake the two.

    J
     
  20. talock

    talock Rookie

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    yeah, probably move to a more dense string pattern at some point, but i wanted to start with the familiar...

    i can break PSGD in about two to three weeks, BUT i am not playing consistently yet; i'll play one day one week, three days the next, and one day again the week after that, i plan to play more consistently in the coming year, but haven't taken that step yet. i guess my point is that although i'm only breaking every two/three weeks, it's really after probably 4-6 hours of actual hitting...

    I'm intrigued by trying full gut, maybe i should take this opportunity to do so before it becomes cost prohibitive. but there is also the option of going for gut or multi mains with a poly cross to add a bit of durability and spin (or will the poly crosses just cut the softer mains?).
     
  21. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Poly crosses will just obliterate the gut mains. If you want durability and pop play gut crosses and poly mains.

    I myself prefer NRG2 crosses to gut crosses, but the gut lasts twice as long in a poly blend.

    If you want economy with gut, run gut mains and a cheaper multi cross. You get like 85% of the benefits of the gut with less price.

    J
     
  22. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    Disagree w. all of this.

    Gut in the crosses is a total waste w. poly mains. the poly dumps tension, the gut holds tension and you have a very expensive setup which plays well for less than 2 hours. pros dont care..many switch to a freshly strung frame every 9 games and certainly dont play more than one match w. any stringjob. also most of all the feel and response benefits of gut is wasted by using the gut as a x string. might as well just use a cheap syn gut if you want to ease the harsh hit of poly...most cheap syn guts have more ball feel than poly anyway

    also, multis dont usually make a very good match in a hybrid w. gut because of the tension holding issues and also because the multi tends to shred quickly when coupled w. gut...if you are gonna go cheap, might as well just put a basic syn gut as a x string w. gut mains and call it a day. I like the duraflex because it matches well to the crispness of gut and holds it's tension a bit better.

    NRG2 as a x string shreds in an instant and also dumps tension quickly and quickly loses it's playability..i wouldnt use this string in any other way than straightup and be prepared to restring often even if you arent a string breaker

    I really like the Mojo setup and have been using it for maybe 3 years now and am not interested in even experimenting w. anything else
     
  23. Koz

    Koz Rookie

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    I have a different view on this.

    Tension is tension. 60 lbs on one string is 60 lbs on another string. 60 lbs in one racquet is 60 lbs in another. What you're talking about is effort required to deflect the string. I think your view of 'taut' is not how much tension is in the line, but how much the line resists deflection if a force is applied to it (like a tennis ball hitting the middle of the string).

    You take your shoelace and your 30' rope and you tie a 10 lb weight at the end of each of them and hang them both from the ceiling, they will both have 10lbs of tension. That's physics. -Now, you take that string and that rope with 10 lbs of tension on it, and apply a force in the middle of the string/rope, perpendicular to the tensile force (same as when you hit a tennis ball), you are exerting effort to deflect the string. In this case, different lengths, cross sections, and different string materials will affect the deflection. Naturally, the 30' rope will deflect a LOT more than the shoelace...but that does not mean the shoelace has more tension than the rope does.

    Warning! Science content and reasoning
    This, I think, is what you were getting at in your original post.

    Ok! Enough reasoning!

    So...back to my original point. I don't agree with the OP's quoted statement. If you set racquet A and racquet B on a stringing machine at 60 lbs, they'll both come out at 60 lbs. The string beds may deflect differently, but tension is tension! Deflection is NOT tension.

    All THAT being said...deflection plays a huge part in how well a string performs for an individual, so I think the meaning behind JR's original post comes through, but IMO it was technically inaccurate.

    Your point at the end of the quote though, about stretching is also true. However a good stringer will prestretch and allow time for the string to settle. My post concentrates on strings that are already settled in.
     
  24. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Here is the deal, you fail in your examples to take into account the elasticity of the string and consequent tension loss due to the fact that the string once clamped off is no longer being pulled on.

    Let us take this theoretical example.

    Take 20 feet of tennis string, attach it to a fish scale at one end, and to a pole at the other. Pull one end of the string to 60lbs, and clamp it off. Take a reading on the fish scale after an hour.

    Now repeat the example but with only 1 foot of string, and check the tension on the fishscale after an hour, it will most certainly be higher.

    The same theory applies when using a constant pull electric machine as compared to a spring lockout machine.

    Ie. A star 4 vs a Neos.

    The Star 4 will keep pulling until the string is clamped off and thereby leave you with a higher initial tension than the neos which stops pulling once the machine reaches the tension and locks out.

    This also explains why different stringers will string differently even with the same racquet on the same machine set at the same tension. The longer you wait before clamping the string the tighter your initial tension is.

    Your examples are correct in a theoretical land, where tension loss does not exist, and strings are either inelastic, or perfectly conserve their spring energy in that they always return 100% and do not elongate after returning from their defelection upon impact.

    J
     
  25. Koz

    Koz Rookie

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    I agree with what you're saying; I just interpreted your original post differently. For some reason I thought you were saying 60lbs is 'different' on one racquet than it was on another. Naturally, when you take the racquet off the machine, anything goes; and of course, 52 lbs will be less than 56, or whatever the tension will be after stretching This is why I ended my above post as I did, with the stretching and pre-stretching tidbits.
     
  26. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    No problem bud, I love, and understand physics quite well.

    And like discussing things like this as I usually find new ways to look at things.

    But for most of my guide stuff, I basically tell it how it works out on court, and let the people either go by what I say or not by their own choosing.

    I never try to force my crap down peoples throat, I try very hard to just say, this is my opinion, what I believe and how I feel, if you respect me, you are free to take my advice, if you don't respect me, or you disagree with my thinking, I am certainly not going to expend any energy arguing with you.

    But if you care to discuss in a logical and inteligent manner, I will gladly partake.

    (By you, I mean, people in general not you Koz)

    J
     
  27. davidahenry

    davidahenry Professional

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    ^^^ Very respectful and cordial discussion between J and Koz. Very cool to see. Take care.

    DH
     
  28. raygo

    raygo Semi-Pro

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    Very helpful thread, guys. I wish I'd known more about the physics side of this game when I was younger. "Technical Tennis" was a good read from an engineering/physics point of view.

    Also nice to see mature posts as opposed to the typical 'OMG Luxilon is teh greatest string of all time in my APDC lolz' type of post.
     
  29. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Ya, the physics is fun to know, but I think it is also helpful that I actually am a player aswell.

    Because some stuff that works in theory. . . not so much on the court.

    J
     
  30. raygo

    raygo Semi-Pro

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    True. Learning these principles gets rid of some lingering questions about the game, but it disappoints me to see so many players looking for some magical formula. This message board is great to learn about products that may or may not be worth your hard-earned money, but you can't buy game.

    My ball machine and two hundred balls was the best game-improvement purchase ever.

    In my humble opinion, sub-4.0 players should stick with a proven synthetic gut, work on their GAME, and worry less about equipment.

    Normally, I'd say to each their own, but I just had to give up the court to a bunch of rich guys with pro gear playing suckball (at least it's still a three day weekend). Rules are rules, but sheesh.

    To get on topic, I do have a hybrid string question. Poly and many multis lose tension quickly, but is the tension loss as pronounced when paired with a string that DOES maintain tension well? I imagine the higher tension would dominate and so the poor tension maintaining string would be playable longer...but like you said, reality doesn't always jive with theory.

    Just thinking of possible combinations since I just found some unexpected free time...
     
  31. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    I've found that mixing as you suggest, works about as you expect in your conjecture.
     
  32. davidahenry

    davidahenry Professional

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    Hey J - I posted this in a different thread. Not sure if you saw it, but I would love your thoughts...

    I love VS (full job). I just tried ALU Power Rough (full job) and loved it as well. Therefore, I am thinking about trying Federer's hybrid - VS mains and ALU Power Rough crosses. I know you use full ALU Power Rough but have you used this set up it in the past? If so, your comments would be greatly appreciated.

    Despite trying several high-end multi's lately, I have pretty much narrowed my personal playing preference to:

    1. Full VS
    2. Full BB ALU Power Rough
    3. VS Mains / BB ALU Power Rough Crosses

    Of the three, I haven't tried the hybrid yet. In fact, I haven't tried any hybrid combination yet. I am curious as to how it will play. I've always read that the mains account for most of a stringbed's playability, so I am curious as to how much the poly crosses will cause the stringbed to play differently (than a full gut job).

    Thanks.

    DH
     
  33. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    ^^^ I personally have never played the blend, I knew it would last me about 20 mins, so never tried.

    J
     
  34. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    I have played it with VS crosses, but never VS mains.

    J
     
  35. davidahenry

    davidahenry Professional

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    ^^^ Ok - thanks J. I'm going to give it a go. I must admit though... After playing another singles match last night with full ALU Power Rough, I am really loving it. The VS/Rough hybrid will have to be exceptional for me to switch. We'll see...

    Using full gut and multi's over the years, I have always strung my POG MP at 65 lbs. For the ALU Power Rough, I reduced the tension to 61 lbs. - based on the general consensus that poly should be strung at a lower tension. I'm not sure I love the tension at 61 lbs. I think I might still be better off to go with 65 lbs. I like to take big full swings on my groundies, and at 61 lbs., I'm still floating a few more balls than I'd like long.

    You string your ALU Power Rough pretty high, right? Do you not buy into the "string poly 10% lower than normal" recommendation?

    Thanks.

    DH
     
  36. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    I was playing multis at 64, and found the lux to be right at 58 with my N90s.

    Having said that I am up to 70 now with the K.

    I think the 10% is a good starting point, but each person will adjust differently.

    J
     
  37. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    you are stringing lux at 70 lbs??

    wow, how is the arm feeling?
     
  38. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Doesn't bother my arm a lick, actually hits smooth as glass.

    My arm has been taking a somewhat of a beating lately as I have been tinkering a bit with my service motion, and when I screw up I hit full extension before I hit the ball and that is not fun at all.

    I also think it has a bit to do with me playing a lot of dubs in the winter and comming in out of the cold to serve first not really warmed up or loose.

    But I blasted away all spring and summer at 70lbs 20 hours a week and didn't hear a peep out of my wrist, elbow or shoulder, knock wood.

    J
     
  39. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    Always felt it was more technique. makes me feel better about bumping up my BA set up a couple of lbs if I feel the need. Trying not to do it as it gets colder though.
     
  40. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    I thought about stringing up a couple of sticks with hybrids incase I had to play in the cold, as it plays much better.

    But I have a few loose ones in my bag just incase. And I am a tough dude to convince to play in sub 60F weather. I am like the cold sissy of all time, my body just revolts against it. When I have to play in the low 60s I look like the michelin man wearing everything I own.

    J
     
  41. Mansewerz

    Mansewerz Legend

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    Even an eyepatch???
     
  42. ronalditop

    ronalditop Hall of Fame

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    hi J011yroger. i have problems with the power of my strings. i use psgd 16 at 58 and is too powerful to me. i cant swing fast enough cause the ball goes out. can you recommend me a low powered string that is somehow durable and has good feel? and what tension should i put. thanks.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2008
  43. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    How fast do you break the psgd 16?

    J
     
  44. ronalditop

    ronalditop Hall of Fame

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    well this is the first time i use psgd 16 cause before i have used psgd 17 and they last me about a month or month and a half. but they have too much power.
    I forgot. please recommend me cheap strings that costs less than 10 bucks.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2008
  45. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    And you are hitting consistently long by about how much?

    Meaning the majority of your shots are going how much farther than you would like?

    J
     
  46. ronalditop

    ronalditop Hall of Fame

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    i would say when i hit very fast like i would like to , the ball lands about half a meter to a meter out.
     
  47. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Then I would just stick with the PSGD16 and string it 3-4 lbs tighter.

    J
     
  48. nadal for number1

    nadal for number1 Rookie

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    jolly, im in a string problem
    i hit fairly hard with topspin and a hard serve, multis dont last, but i also like to serve and volley, which string would you recommend? thanks, something not too stiff but something that will last
     
  49. SaunderS

    SaunderS Professional

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    I'm the same. I use Pro Hurricane Tour.
     
  50. Tofi

    Tofi Professional

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    would you say luxilon rough is stiff??
     

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