Discussion in 'Strings' started by J011yroger, Mar 8, 2008.
Authored by a frequent TTW poster in the Racquets and Strings forums too.
All poly is monofiliment, not all monofiliment is poly.
It doesn't much matter what beginners use, once intermediates get to the point where they are breaking strings, it might be time to start investigating poly.
Usually it is technique, not string that hurts your arm.
Not at all. My friend Dennis is a self rated 1.0, having never felt the crumbling pressure of USTA events, nor spent the blood, sweat, and tears required to hone his skills in order to compete, and he uses the 'Jolly Rig'.
That is what many here claim that the extra spin will give the control needed to tame down the trampoline effect of the low tension. But they never mention that in a match situation a player cannot always use spin.
Every player I know agrees that the higher tension the better control, this is the only place I have ever heard that lower tension can give as good or better control than high tension does.
for real though, I am a 4.0 that has his days. I am left handed and push with the forehand, while my two hander is very flat and my weapon. I also have crazy lefty slice that spins inside out. rigth now in college club. I go through poly syn hybrids in about 20ish hours of mild tennis drills. when I was playing in high school though, I played full bed of lux alu rough at 60 lbs, but is killed my arm to the point were I was out of the game for like 4 weeks. Now I string my hybrids at 53/51 and my arm loves it. I could play for ever.
In short you think I am man enough for kevlar poly mix or will it kill my arm?
Ps. what do you string at?
What does that mean?
Higher tension is better control for flatter hitters. Lower tension retains the power for spin hitters. The spin is used to control the ball. This is why Nadal, the hardest swinger in the game strings at 55#s. Now ask yourself, do you hit nearly as hard as him? No. So could you not string your poly at 48 or 50 if you are a spin hitter and retain good control? Of course.
The problem with lower tensions is that it challenges poor technique. If you arm the ball you will have to resort to stringing high even though you hit with spin.
I don't see what you would gain by trying it.
I don't see what is confusing about stating that in a match situation it is not always possible to use spin. Like when just having enough time to block back a big shot or serve. That is when a tighter tension will help with control.
I am confused when you state that higher tension is better control for flat hitters and lower tension retains the power for spin hitters. Say what? Does this mean that lower tension will not retain the power for flat hitters?
Lower tension gives more power to any hitter, just like higher does the opposite. Then you claim that rafa uses 55lbs. and so a club player like myself should be able to use a lower tension because I don't swing near as hard.
Again this make no sense to me, a pro player has perfect timing and preparation unlike an amateur. Plus I always love these tension comparisons to the pro players. Yes Rafa does use 55lbs. tension on his rackets for about a half hour or so and then he changes to a fresh string job.
So when people claim they are using the same tension as a pro player that only applies for the first half hour, every hour after that let alone days they are no where near that tension.
I do agree that you need a lot better timing and technique when using low tension, that is exactly why especially in match play when rushed a higher tension helps maintain control. I don't know about arming the ball needing more tension, not sure what you mean by that.
Can we make a trip to SoCal this winter? Beach Tennis, Brews, Tennis, and... well, what's left?
Can't do it this winter due to budget constraints. Would love to do Indian Wells one year, or play the Hardcourt National in Balboa park...
I think there's a total height restriction for that tournament. Team J011y tower would not qualify.
Unless you're 6'2, which, I'm pretty sure you're taller than me, we don't make it.
I have been playing for almost 2 years and i have found that some people use different tension on the mains and the crosses. I usually use a 53 lb tension(prince synt.gut) on a Yonex Vcore 100s. If i want to gain more spin and control without losing power and feel how could i customize it by having different tensions??
There is no magic solution to give you everything, it is personal preference.
The only guidance I can give you is if you like your racquets better when they are freshly strung, string a couple of pounds tighter next time and see how you like that. If you like your racquets better towards the end of the stringjob, then string them a bit looser next time and see how that works out for you.
Most people stringing at different tensions on the main and cross are using different strings on the main and cross. If you wanted even though you use the same string for both (Which is perfectly fine and recommended for most players) you could string the mains 2# tighter and it will give the stringbed a bit more even feel since the mains will come out looser than the crosses with the machine set to the same tension however, almost nobody (including me) does that.
Thanks man learned heaps.
Jolly, trolling aside what is your NTRP ranking?
I played two seasons of 5.0 and got bumped down to 4.5 last year, I am 100% healthy now so I anticipate getting bumped back up to 5.0 for next year.
I personally consider most of the people who play 5.0 here to be 5.5-6.0 players, but everybody seems to interpret these things differently.
Long Island 5.0 = 5.5 / 6.0
4.5 = 4.75 - 5.0
Westchester Mixed Combo 3.5 = devastated.
However, I see it's a few years old. Is the info still accurate? Any updates?
Yes, still a good starting point. If you have been playing a while and have specific questions I am happy to answer them if I can.
I'll be trying your Big Banger (original) main/ALUr cross setup sometime this summer. Even though I'm happy with my current setup I still like to experiment.
I have a question, have you tried stringing gut/alu at high 40s to low 50s(similar to Federer's setup)? If you have, how does that compare to your Kevlar/alu rough? Thanks!
It is a sweet, sweet, setup once you get used to it.
You absolutely MUST string it loose.
I played full ALU at 70#, and am stringing the JRII at 48# now.
Please report when you do, I'd love to hear other's opinions.
Yes, and it is amazing. I just can't afford it. I'll write a full comparison later.
Ok, the Kevlar blend is a very warm, plush feeling stringjob (contrary to what many on here would have you believe), it bites terrifically, and due to the ALU has a nice bit of pop to it.
The thing about the Kevlar blend is its absolute predictability. Nothing you can do is going to phase it. It will never do something strange or unpredictable, it will never be overmatched. You put in x, you get y out, every time.
When it gets to the last third of its life, it is like an old linebacker with two shot knees, it just gave its all, and has nothing left. Fortunately it is so tough that it lasts about 3x as long as most polys.
The gut blend on the other hand has a bit edgier feel to it, by no means uncomfortable, but where the Kevlar blend is the gentle giant, the gut blend is the quiet killer with the "Are you sure you want to F@$# with me?" stare.
The gut bites amazingly, and the ball comes off with plenty of zip, and a more confounding spin. When I hit with the gut my ball wobbles through the air like a bumblebee, hits the ground and does all kinds of crazy stuff.
The Kevlar blend has a nice, clean heavy spin, the gut blend is more like WTF is this, and how am I supposed to hit it back?
The Kevlar is like Thor, no mystery, just bash your head in.
The gut is like the Heath Ledger version of the joker. Just turn him loose, and watch him kill everyone in some sick maniacal way.
Let's kill the bat man
Mentally unstable brunettes are my Achilles heel.
Hahaha I think I get what you are saying. Thanks for the comparison. I haven't tried kevlar before, I think I'll give it a try sometime! Have you tried cheap guts? It doesn't feel as good as VS, but still works quite well to my finding if you take good care of it.
No, I haven't tried any of the off brands, used Klip once, that is the cheapest I've ever used.
If the gut lasts you, it is flat out better.
It lasts me on my BLX90... as long as I took the extra mile caring for it. That means marinating it in baby oil first after it's strung(it's usually dry), then put on some babolat thermo gut coating. After a hitting session or two, I would lubricate it with lotion or finger ease to decrease its sliding tension again. With this much care, I usually end up cutting it out when Alu cross die before the main breaks!
The guts I have are quite cheap, about $12 per set of gut. But it can be even cheaper if you buy a lot.
I'm not Jolly Roger but I've played klip uncoated in a full bed and gut/alu rough combo. I've never played with another gut. I've used nxt tour, a few synthetics and a vast assortments of polys. Since I'm used to alu rough so the full bed of gut was a little bouncy for my taste. The gut mains/alu rough is real nice. Like possible 2nd only to a full bed of alu rough. I would describe it as crisp. I'm considering making it my main setup.
Is it odd that my 3 fav string combos have alu rough crosses?
1 alu rough full
1a klip gut mains / alu rough crosses
3 Kevlar mains / alu rough crosses
On a side note, gut mains and full bed alu ruff lasted about the same for me (1st time anyway)
By jolly's account, the jr2 is the working man's setup. I haven't tried it but maybe one day.
On the other hand, 4g would be an average $8 string. A little bit better than psgd, but only because of durability.
What gut do you speak of? It's not that knock off child gut from china is it?
Oh definitely not the china stuffs. I've tried those stuffs, it plays more like multi than gut. It is basically gut in glue jello! Its coating is like some kind of weird glue, and it would wear off after a hour! Then you have gummy like stuffs all over your strings. Horrible stuffs.
I use primarily rebranded global guts. Like gaucho and stuffs from the bay.
Which string should generate the most spin?
Hey J011yroger, I have not been able to use polys due to arm issues and lately have been using 17 or 18 g multis in a 16x20 pattern, but am looking to upgrade strings. Of the following strings, which do you believe would generate the most spin? 17g Head Rip, 17g Dunlop Hexy Fiber, 16g Wilson Gut, 17g Wilson gut. I am an old Prince recoil fan from reading your threads from way back, so if you have any other non poly recommendations as well that would be great. Glad to see your thread getting some recent hits again. Thanks for your feedback!
For sure the gut. I would use the 16 to get the extra durability for the same price, but if the 17 lasts you, and you like it better then rock on. I don't notice much difference between gauges of strings, so I generally go for the thicker ones (unlike my preference in women).
The actual holy grail string for you is Laserfibre Supernatural Gut, which is quite possibly the greatest string ever made, but I don't know where you would find any of it these days.
I agree with this answer.
Thanks guys for your feedback. Your time and information on your threads are much appreciated!
Tested a few string combos over the past week+ that a friend asked me to review.
Will be posting full writeups soon.
Not sure if you still frequent this thread Jolly but I'm a 3.5-4 player, mostly baseliner with a longer, faster swing with topspin. I use a head radical mp and am still stumped at string choices/decisions.
I am going to restring my racket tmw and I'm thinking either ngr2 if the place has it or Wilson NXT. I'm not really a string breaker but I'm definitely looking for durability and spin. My current set up is Yonex Poly Tour Spin at 55, but I think I'm gonna increase tension by 2-4 pds(?) because I seem to hit too long even with spin and I think increasing tension should help. So NXT or ngr2 at 57 or 59 sound good?, or something different? Thanks for the help.
Hey J011y, thanks for the guide.
I've been stringing for 5 years now, started on a Babolat Star 5 at the first country club I worked at. Country club I work at now has an old Star 4, and I bought a Star 5 for my personal convenience at home. I've probably strung over 1,500 rackets by now when I include my own, friends, customers at the country club, demos, even as a stand in stringer for some Challenger Pros rackets (most famous person I strung for was Nicholas Monroe, that was crazy). etc.
I was wondering if you could answer this. I'm going to get certified stringers license soon, but I've always wondered why people choose to string their full poly bed at different tensions depending on main or cross. I've seen variations of tighter mains and lower cross, and vice versa. But I still don't understand why some go 54 in mains, 50 in crosses.
I feel kind of embarrassed not to know exactly why, despite the fact iv'e already strung so many rackets previously.
Hmm, the technical reason is that because strings stretch, the longer the string, the tighter you have to pull it to achieve the same final tension since there is more string between the clamps.
In reality, it's just personal preference. I string my full bed at the same tension because I'm used to it; some people feel like the tighter main gives them a bit more bite and the looser cross gives them some more oomph.
Hi, I'm a newbee and learning about strings. Thanks OP for the excellent string tutorial. I have a couple of questions...
(1) For a non string breaker, it seems that natural guts can be played with for the longest time, and poly/copoly strings the shortest. Among the other two kinds, synthetic gut & multi-filament, which one requires less frequent restringing in general?
(2) What is the factor (or the combination of factors) that enables a string to be played with for a longer time, i.e. does not make it necessary to cut it out and restring? I'm confused by the various terms like durability, tension maintenance, playability and playability duration.
1. They are about the same, personally I wouldn't leave gut in a racquet for a long time since it dries out and becomes brittle.
2. I'd just use a basic synthetic gut, or if you wanted to spend a bit more for something that was a bit better, a multifiliment. Keep playing and when you want a string with a specific difference from what you are using, then switch.
Thanks for the reply. Is there any general strategy that could be followed by a 3.0-3.5 non-string breaker to reduce the frequency of restringing? Despite reading that poly is not exactly for my 3.0-3.5 level, I loved playing a hybrid of Pro-Hurricane copoly@50 + Prince Syn gut@54, but it went dead very quickly. I'm trying to find out which direction to take my string experimentation next. The goal is decent playability at low cost (= less restringing, relatively cheap strings).
Have you tried a full bed of multifiliment?
Personally, I like nrg2.
I haven't tried any multi-filament yet, but I have ordered Technifibre E-Matrix, and Head RIP control. Trying to be cheap first. Should I forget these and directly go to NRG2?
Separate names with a comma.