The King of clay was finally dethroned!

Discussion in 'Pro Match Results and Discussion' started by Buckethead, May 8, 2011.

  1. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

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    So Novak did not play MC or Barcelona. What is the big deal? That is part of the privilege of being a top player. You don't have to rely on so many tournaments and can pick and choose. It did not seem to negatively impact his clay performance thus far by not playing in those tournaments. I don't blame him.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2011
    #51
  2. Cassius Clay

    Cassius Clay Banned

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    I don't blame him either. But you can't deny the fact that Nadal won them. 1500 deserved points on those 2 tournaments. He has had a better clay season than Nole so far.
     
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  3. RalphDUD

    RalphDUD Banned

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    Is this what fanboys have now resorted to?
     
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  4. Tony48

    Tony48 Legend

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    Djokovic is undefeated on clay this year. Nadal isn't :)
     
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  5. Shangri La

    Shangri La Hall of Fame

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    A new King of clay has been crowned.
     
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  6. Buckethead

    Buckethead Banned

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    I'm not saying Nadal isn't the clay GOAT or the best player on clay ever.
    That match yesterday they both played really well, Djokovic won it in straight sets, he made a statement. In fact if it wasn't for Djokovic making uncharacteristically UE Nadal would have lost the first set 6x0 or 6x1 at best , and the match in straights.
    Honestly, this wasn't even a contest as in my understanding.

    Djoker beat Nadal hitting winners, forcing Nadal out of his comfort zone, that is why Nadal was running crazy from one side to other to hit forehands mistakenly in 90% to Djoker's BH, his strong point.

    Don't confuse last year with this year, this year many are better than they were before, Djoker is an example of it, should we say that Nadal and Djokovic play worse this year than last year??

    Nadal fans never give credits to other players and they beat Nadal. Nadal at his very best is beatable by some players.

    I picked Djoker to win in Madrid and Nadal to win in Rome, but I am actually not sure about it, because of the way Djoker beat him, he was out of sources, playing on fire, at his best and Djoker was very comfortable executing within his comfort zone.
    Just accept it, his achievements on clay were due his greatness and sometimes lack of competitiveness due to how much better than the others he was on clay, with the exception of a few players who have the game to beat him, but wound up losing.
    From now on Djoker is a real threat to him and it is in my pinion 50/50 chances.

    I said before the match even happened, the FH against Djoker BH doesn't work, it needs something else, it has to be FH VS FH because Djoker does not own a FH up the line, He can't change the direction of the ball up the line.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2011
    #56
  7. Cassius Clay

    Cassius Clay Banned

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    :confused:

    I am also undefeated on clay :)

    I'm better than Nadal :)
     
    #57
  8. RalphDUD

    RalphDUD Banned

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    Did you beat Nadal?

    Quick question, maybe best for another thread, but when was the last time Nadal lost 3 matches in a row to a player. When was the last time he lost 3 finals in a row to a player? hmmm..
     
    #58
  9. Hitman

    Hitman G.O.A.T.

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    Three in a row in the same season? Del Potro in 2009 I believe. Miami, Canada, US Open.

    Three Finals in a row? Davydenko, Miami 08, Shanghai 09, Doha 10
     
    #59
  10. jackson vile

    jackson vile Legend

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    How often does Nadal win this event?
     
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  11. djones

    djones Hall of Fame

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    The problem is that If Nadal hits to his forehand, Djokovic will play it back to Nadal's tentative backhand.
     
    #61
  12. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Talk Tennis Guru

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    It's not that simple. And the points where Nadal did that, he won.
     
    #62
  13. Buckethead

    Buckethead Banned

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    If Nadal loses RG it's the end.
     
    #63
  14. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    Of the world as we know it :twisted:
     
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  15. Cassius Clay

    Cassius Clay Banned

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    Yes, I did when I was 20 and he was 10. After that I retired undefeated on clay.
     
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  16. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

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    your signature pile... your signature...
     
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  17. Spider

    Spider Hall of Fame

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    Some times we just have to accept reality. When in Dubai, I suggested that Djokovic could go unbeaten for a very long time and could possibly be the greatest season ever seen; some posters ridiculed it.

    However, I say it again, it is going to take a superhuman effort to stop Djokovic, and most likely, unless he gets injured, he will win all the remaining matches this year.

    This is the highest level of tennis that anyone has ever seen. Djokovic's backhand is out of this world, his forehand is very consistent and can be a huge weapon. He has a very good serve, moves very well from the baseline -- when all of his game aspects start working, you are not sure what you need to do as an opponent.
     
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  18. JumpSmash

    JumpSmash Rookie

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    You're back with your ludicrous, over the top assertions about Novak. Everybody will lose at some point, including Djokovic. There is no way he will go unbeaten for the rest of the year. And his tennis is not the highest level anyone has ever seen. That distinction arguably belongs to one man only, Federer.
     
    #68
  19. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    Đoković King Baah ! Nadal and Murray are in a slump, that's all. Nole's streak has an asterisk next to it. Rafa is still the Clay King.
     
    #69
  20. Big_Dangerous

    Big_Dangerous Legend

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    It's actually not because he hasn't equaled or set the record for most wins in a row with out losing. Plus there have been quite a few matches where he really did not play well but given the level of his opponent, he fortunate to make it through.

    Second of all, there is no way he wins the rest of his matches this year unless he misses either the French or Wimbledon and several Masters Series.
     
    #70
  21. Buckethead

    Buckethead Banned

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    If you guys read my post, today's match against Lorenzi is just a result of what that beat down from Djokovic caused to Nadal.
    He lost his confidence, even that intimidation He puts on his opponents, He's going for more with his forehand, going bigger maybe to prepare to an eventual final against Djoker, and the UE are creeping in in boat loads.
    That loss was definitely in his head and affected him big time.
    We'll se how He recovers from it, of course I picked him to win this one, so i hope He at least makes to the final.
     
    #71
  22. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    Bellucci was injured.
     
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  23. Buckethead

    Buckethead Banned

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    What does Bellucci have to do with Nadal here?
    I was talking about Nadal if you didn't figure it out.
     
    #73
  24. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    Id buy that with a coke and a smile.
     
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  25. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    I think if Novak was the same player as he was last year, no one would say Nadal is declining. Having just one guy beat you is not mean a player is declining. If Nadal is consistently losing to a lesser player(like Fed in 2008 ), then it safe to say he's in decline. Right now Nadal's problem is just one player(Novak). So no way you can say he's declining when he's not even 25 yet.
     
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  26. vive le beau jeu !

    vive le beau jeu ! G.O.A.T.

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    guys... please stop this !
    these threads are scary: i thought the djoker lost today ! [​IMG]
     
    #76
  27. Buckethead

    Buckethead Banned

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    yes, He lost 3 games in the match against Kubot.
     
    #77
  28. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    Nadal isnt declining (yet)

    Djokovic is ascending.
     
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  29. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    I am talking about the thread subject, Bucket. If Bellucci wasn't injured, he would have taken out Nole and Rafa would not have been dethroned.
    Even if he lost to Bellucci.
     
    #79
  30. Buckethead

    Buckethead Banned

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    I don't think so, that result in the first set was due to Novak not playing his best and Bellucci playing his absolute best, hence He dominated Djoker, but then Djoker found his rhythm.
    If not even the Clay GOAT beat Djoker there, I don't think Bellucci would be the one to do if you consider Djokovic playing up to his best.
    Bellucci is good, when on his best, otherwise he is average. On his best he can give many players hard times as He gave Nadal last year on the FO.
     
    #80
  31. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Wait until the French Open is over, Buckethead. That will decide where this period will go down in history.
     
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  32. Cassius Clay

    Cassius Clay Banned

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    Hold you horses, guys. This clay season has no king yet.

    Points earned on clay so far:

    Nadal: 1000 + 500 + 600 + 600 = 2600

    Djokovic: 250 + 1000 + 1000 = 2250

    Novak has one more M1000, but Nadal has more points overall. RG will be the judge on who the clay king is.
     
    #82
  33. Buckethead

    Buckethead Banned

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    The results at this time are speaking louder.
    Nadal never had any chance to even take a set from Djoker in this season on clay, unless Djoker himself allowed Nadal.
    If they are to meet in the final Djoker will win in straight sets again.
    Nadal's dominance is over, forget about this clay thing with Nadal winning it all.
     
    #83
  34. JeMar

    JeMar Legend

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    Double post.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2011
    #84
  35. JeMar

    JeMar Legend

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    In 1984, John McEnroe went a perfect 42-0 before losing in the French Open final. In the 90s, Agassi swept the entire summer hard court season before losing in the US Open final.

    The first half of John McEnroe's 1984 is still a bit of an embarrassment for John McEnroe because he blew that match, eclipsing the entirety of the previous 42 matches. Agassi's US Open final defeat threw him into a psychological hole that took him years to recover from.

    Let's wait until the French Open to start making such sweeping statements.
     
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  36. crocon

    crocon Professional

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    It's too early to say who is the best right now.

    If Novak wins the FO, we will have to wait until the FO next year to decide.
     
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  37. dh003i

    dh003i Legend

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    crocon,

    Come on. The player who wins the slam on a surface in a given year is the best player on that surface that year. Doesn't mean they are overall better throughout their career in general; but that particular year, yes they are the best.

    Federer was the best player on clay in 2009. If Djokovic wins the FO, he'll be he best player on clay this year.
     
    #87
  38. crocon

    crocon Professional

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    Yeah but Nadal says the rankings should be based on a 2 year system. So if Novak wins it will be 1-1
     
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  39. vive le beau jeu !

    vive le beau jeu ! G.O.A.T.

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    what a misleading thread title...
     
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  40. AM95

    AM95 Hall of Fame

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    nadal has played more tournaments so this statistic is irrelevant.

    djokovic has beaten the goat on his turf in back to back weeks.

    nobody has been able to do that.
     
    #90
  41. WinNCash

    WinNCash Rookie

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    :shock:So if Nadal says it, it must be true?
     
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  42. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    John McEnroe says the memory of the 1984 French Open final still wakes him up at night on occasion. Brad Gilbert said a few years ago that Andre Agassi took well over 2 years to recover from the psychological damage caused by his loss to Sampras in the 1995 US Open final and to put the loss into its proper perspective. Agassi had to hit rock bottom in the October-November 1997 period, when his ranking tumbled well out of the top 100, to shake him out of his slump. Gilbert told Agassi to either quit tennis or get serious and start again from scratch. The rest is history.

    I keep saying this, but a lot of people seem to thrive on making premature predictions and taking those predictions as inevitable facts.
     
    #92
  43. GhostDog

    GhostDog Hall of Fame

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    Well, Novak is clearly the favorite heading into the FO. It's his tournament to loose. Nadal looked kind of shaken after today's defeat. It's not liked he played bad. He's has to be wondering what he has to do to beat Novak.
     
    #93
  44. WinNCash

    WinNCash Rookie

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    I agree but I would hope that a loss would not send Djokovic into a downward spiral. If he can win RG it will be one of the amazing feats of tennis history, just because of how spectacular Nadal is on clay. The first few rallies of the Rome final I was worried Novak was not going to figure out how to get the ball by Rafa, but he worked it out.

    I am sure at this point Rafa is going to feel a little bit like the underdog (even though he has won RG so many times) and is going to go for broke even more. Could make the difference in the tournament.
     
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  45. borg number one

    borg number one Legend

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    Djokovic, with the way he is playing, is really presenting big problems for Nadal now. I picked Nadal to take this match in straight sets, but Djokovic played with a lot of confidence. I did not think he would pull of the win in Rome. The one thing I've found out about Nadal is that he finds solutions and he does so often at majors. I still expect Nadal to win the FO, unless somehow he's a bit spent. Best of five sets is a very different proposition. If Nadal gains a foothold in any of the first three sets, he can at least win in five sets. I'm not so sure about Djokovic being able to do that. How much doe he have left in the tank?

    Can either Djokovic or Nadal now win BOTH the FO and Wimbledon? That's looks to be a tall task of course for either. Tennis is a game of matchups and the way Djokovic is playing could present some big difficulties for Nadal. He seems to have nowhere to go to break down the Djokovic game these days. Nadal is a bad matchup for Federer and now Djokovic is a bad matchup for Nadal. Let's see if they actually end up meeting in either the FO final or at Wimbledon. Then, if they do, will Djokovic continue to hit winners with abandon. All in all, Nadal needs to regroup and refocus. I wouldn't put it past him. No matter what, these aren't majors. Yet, four wins in a row over Nadal is stunning. This French Open has the potential to be a "barn burner".
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2011
    #95
  46. Clay lover

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    I am SERIOUSLY looking forward to FO and Wimbledon now that Djokovic's all inspired...
     
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  47. Rickenbacker4003

    Rickenbacker4003 Professional

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    I agree, but don't you realize who you are responding to? He doesn't post in here unless it's to start flaming. He loves it.
     
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  48. Smasher08

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    Yep, dethroned is probably the right word. Last week was more of a dismantling.

    If Rafa doesn't win RG, Djoker might be #1 before Wimbledon.
     
    #98
  49. Speranza

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    Holmes: And there Sir lies a possible contradiction. The best of 5 is irrelevant in the slams in my opinion. And here is why:

    1. Not an any point did it look like Nole was being troubled continually either in yesterday's or Madrid's final by Ralph.

    2. There wasn't a particular shot that Ralph was just missing by inches, or a tactic that was just needing a bit of refinement before it started to break down Nole in either final. (I'm concentrating on clay here, not the prior hard court finals which coincidentally Ralph also lost.)

    3. Even after a late night gruelling match the night before, Novak's energy did not look depleted. He may have been sore in terms of muscle groups, but he carried on through it.

    4. Let us go to the point of 6-4, 6-4 yesterday; if another set was needed, or 3 by Ralph, who looked more likely to take it/them?

    Many used to say that Roger out of majors was different to Roger in majors. That WAS true for a while, but time (as always) works its wonders. It applies no longer for Roger, and I truly believe it will NOT apply either to Ralph.

    As I mentioned before in a thread when Murray took a set of Ralph on clay this year, the damage mentally has been done. The psychological levee has indeed broken, and the water will pour quicker than it did with Roger due to Ralph's natural way of play.

    Another underrated point: Nole has shown how to take the fight to Ralph. OTHERS will have taken note of this. Ralph's journey to the RG final this year (assuming he makes it) will not be an easy one, partly BECAUSE of each match being 5 sets.

    It will be one of the most interesting French Opens for quite a while.

    Watson: And on a separate note, when we said back in February that we don't think Ralph will take the RG title this year, that hunch doesn't seem so mad.
     
    #99
  50. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Djokovic will become #1 if he just gets to the RG final even if Nadal wins RG. Nadal's only hope to stay #1 is if someone takes out Djokovic before the final.
     

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