The Murray controversy

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Danny_G13, Oct 13, 2012.

  1. Danny_G13

    Danny_G13 Rookie

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    He made Wimbledon's final, won Olympic gold, won the US Open and is just beat Federer with ease AGAIN to make the SM final.

    And yet every time he has any success at all, his detractors on this forum make excuses for opponents, conditions, circumstances, the lot.

    Either Federer tanked, or Djokovic was a victim of scheduling, or Federer didn't care about gold.

    I can't fathom why a tennis player as good as Andy Murray, who's in the top 8 all time ATP rankings for titles behind Pete Sampras, is so discredited in a way no other tennis player below or above him is.

    Admittedly only on here, a forum which inspires flamewars I couldn't begin to imagine before signing up.

    Apparently Federer didn't care today. Of course he didn't care, he cared so little he had the match stopped when there was zero need to do so. He didn't care so much that he ranted to himself after losing a point. Something he rarely does.

    The point is ALL PLAYERS CARE. Be it Federer, Murray, Djokovic or anyone else - every player gives their all in a match. Yes, they may have form lulls in a match but they do not take the court without interest in winning.

    Which makes the discrediting of Murray so absurd - no other player on the ATP gets this level of grief after a victory.
     
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  2. Ico

    Ico Hall of Fame

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    Chalk it up to Murray's near-unlikeable personality/court behavior.
     
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  3. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

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    Most people are idiots. The truth is Murray is showing the best form of his life and is playing the best out of the top players right now.
     
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  4. kaku

    kaku Professional

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    I can't recall a single Murray win over a top player (or even lower ranked players at times) where people didn't say he only won because of the wind, the other player was playing poorly, scheduling, etc
     
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  5. kishnabe

    kishnabe G.O.A.T.

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    We all know that.....but Murray creates Hate for no reason.

    Don't know what makes it so.

    I know I joke about how Murray wins in the wind and being Lucky. I know that he deserves it.

    Federer, Djokovic, and Nadal have all won titles with stellar form opponents, sometimes opponents who don't play well for some reasons, and some times being lucky ina point or two.

    Murray got the advantage when there was wind against Novak and Berdych, a tired Federer from the Delpo Semi, and today he beat a crap Federer while having the flu.

    Federer beat a choking Davydenko in the French Semi(07) and Aussie Qtr(10). Federer beating crapRay in 08 US final.
    Djokovic beat a mono Fed in Aussie 08.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2012
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  6. kishnabe

    kishnabe G.O.A.T.

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    US 08, Aussie 10 Nadal

    Cincny 08 Miami 09 Djokovic,

    Many wins while playing opponents in a good form. I don't think excuses should matter.

    Nadal, Federer, and Djokovic have gotten the easy days too.
     
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  7. tistrapukcipeht

    tistrapukcipeht Professional

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    Fed's game is more precise and very risky, so against top players if He isn't on is harder for him to beat them because of the same nature of his game where He goes for it while Murray/Nadal/Djokovic are on the mercy of Fed's level.

    I think Murray is a great player, but not in the same level as the other 3 for whatever reasons there are, but his personality, brat behavior and lack of class are what make some don't like him at all.

    Reasons why i don't like Murray and his game:

    Behavior, lack of class(faking injuries), ugly game (specially serve motion and forehand), relies on opponents UE most of the time.

    No doubt He deserved the win today, he just played better.
     
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  8. killerboi2

    killerboi2 Rookie

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    Yep. Too much people letting personal hate cloud their judgemet of him as a player. I doubt most of the haters acutally believe the ridiculous excuses they make whenever he wins an important match.
     
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  9. Rozroz

    Rozroz Legend

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    no excuses. he's a great player with a horrible on court personality.
    what can you do?
    make hate threads or masturbation threads ;)
     
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  10. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    Danny, welcome to Planet TTW where you can expect to read more absurd things in the space of 5 minutes than it would probably take you for the rest of the week!

    I'm a Murray fan and innocently joined this forum 18 months ago hoping to have some really pleasant and informative exchanges with other TTW posters about players we all know and respect and, in my naivety, I expected this to include Murray! Before long, I was confronted with the most amazing and irrational threads about him full of bizarre hostility and out and out hate. You'd think he had committed mass murder or raped somebody's mother or something. Well, no doubt you've seen for yourself how these threads keep popping up. There are several ongoing in this forum as we speak.

    In my opinion, there are 2 main schools of Murray-haters:

    1. Certain English football fans who have never forgiven Murray for a jokey remark he made some years ago about supporting any team but England when Tim Henman joked to him about Scotland (Murray is a Scot) failing to qualify for the World Cup. These people hate Murray with a vengeance and will waste no time in attacking him both as a person and as a player at every given opportunity.

    2. Die-hard Federer fans, whom we call '*******s'. Murray's chief crime in their eyes is to have the audacity to have a positive H2H against him unlike nearly every other player except Nadal. In their eyes, no-one is allowed to beat Federer but to beat him more times than he has beaten you is an absolutely unforgiveable sacrilege. You will see many Nadal-hate threads on here too and they are largely for the same reason and are nearly always started by the same fanatical bunch of Fed fans.

    Of course there is often quite a bit of overlap between these two bunches of weirdos.

    There is a third category which is much smaller but much more rational and bias-free. These are real tennis fans who genuinely don't care for Murray's style of play. However they are free of irrational hate unlike the other 2 categories and almost always give Murray the respect he is due as a player despite the fact that they don't like him. They would never start the silly troll threads that the guys in the first two categories delight in posting at the drop of a hat and one can have reasonable, intelligent and pleasant conversations with these guys and discuss our differences without the need for any childish name-calling or immature mud-slinging.

    So my advice is to try and ignore the troll threads started by and joined in by the same bunch of people. You'll soon get to know the usual suspects.
    It's all very sad and pathetic, I know, but try not to let it spoil your enjoyment of this forum. I assure you it IS possible to have rational and civilised discussions about players including Murray. You just have to look for us and seek us out. We are never very far away and will always look forward to sharing information and ideas with you about Murray and anybody else on the professional ATP and WTA tennis tours.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2012
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  11. vive le beau jeu !

    vive le beau jeu ! G.O.A.T.

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    i'm not sure to understand what you mean with that...
     
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  12. Rhino

    Rhino Legend

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    I keep getting close to liking Murray after watching interviews etc, and then he pulls out that bratty childish on-court behaviour...
     
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  13. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    That would be Rafael Nadal. This place is NHA,and it always will be. And go check out MTF if you REALLY want to see the hate flow.
     
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  14. Russeljones

    Russeljones G.O.A.T.

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    I can only think of his on-court demeanour as a factor in this. His workrate is world class and he is undeniably talanted.
     
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  15. Babolatbarry

    Babolatbarry Guest

    Atleast his behavior is entertaining
     
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  16. db379

    db379 Hall of Fame

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    Murray is a great player, very talented, and when he plays like today he is one of the best players ever. He even managed to almost behave today, I guess against Fed, he has more respect than against Stepanek.

    Problem is when he, too often, behaves like a little brat on court, throws insults, swears, breaks racquets, throws balls in the stands etc...
    He is unbearable when he fakes injuries and tries to find cheap excuses for his poor performance. That's just not what people want to see from a Champion.Champions are expected to behave and be role models. Who would want to have Murray as a role model for themselves, let alone their children?

    For this reason, Murray may win plenty more tournaments and be considered one of the most successful players on tour, but he'll never be in the same league as Sampras, Federer, Nadal, Borg, Laver etc... because these players have class and they know how to behave like true champions on court.
     
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  17. jaggy

    jaggy G.O.A.T.

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    He is a bit like Roddick that way but because he is Scottish I like to see him win, his behavior does bother me though
     
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  18. *Sparkle*

    *Sparkle* Professional

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    I don't see the problem. If you take a step back, you'll see that a lot of tennis fans have picked their favourite, and have a fixed idea about who should be allowed to beat them, so see everything through that filter.

    The timing of Murray's rise meant that a lot of people had latched onto other players who are still active, so in their eyes, he's always going to be the challenger, so need to explain away his success. They are also more likely to latch onto behaviour as an excuse to hate that wouldn't bother them in their favourite or someone who isn't a threat. By the time they've bumped their gums a bit, more neutral people can be influenced.

    In Andy's case, the whole saga of him being "anti-English" was taken frighteningly seriously by people who would claim to never pick up a tabloid, never mind read it. It's just one of those stories that grows arms and legs and becomes an established "fact".

    An actual well established fact that once someone has decided that they like, or don't like someone, they'll selectively notice and believe positive, or negative reports or press about them.

    But if you were a fan of another player, you'd see plenty of hate going in their direction, often just as unjustified.

    To be honest, I don't think it's worth worrying about what the more mouthy people on an internet forum have to say. This kind of place attracts people who want to moan or demean people who have achieved more than they could dream of. It's the nature of the beast.

    I also think that a lot of people who make wild claims are doing so with their tongues firmly planted in one cheek. All the stuff about the wind - most people are joking.
     
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  19. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    This describes Cvac perfectly. He swears and insults the linesmen,crowd,and whoever else he feels like during his matches. The only difference is he does it all in Serbian,so a lot of people don't know what he's saying. Like in Rome this year when he told the linemen to suck his c**k,and f**k your mother because they missed a call. And when he smashed his racket on the netpost during that same match right in front of the ballgirls face. Or when he smashed his racket into the bench at RG shattering it. Murray is unfairly singled out for this because Cvac,and others are just as bad if not worse.
     
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  20. Rozroz

    Rozroz Legend

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    not even close i'm afraid. Nole might play dirty but he does it nicely ;)
     
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  21. *Sparkle*

    *Sparkle* Professional

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    Not sure how to edit, but I meant to add, there are also cultural elements.

    Unfortunately, class is an issue. Some people see Andy as a bit too common, and his "I don't care what you think" attitude unnerves them. Some people get worked up about swearing, and think it's "thuggish". They want him to be more genteel. Where I'm from, no-one really cares about swearing, and apparently shouting out a few words from an arbitrary bad list, or being annoyed at yourself in the heat of the moment for making an error is much worse than being condescending during post-match interviews.

    At first glance, it does seem like double standards, but it's actually just different values. I don't much admire some people who are described as having "class", because I have a different opinion on what qualities are important.
     
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  22. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    Not hardly.
     
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  23. CCNM

    CCNM Hall of Fame

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    Danny G-the stuff on this forum is minor! You want to read some real flame war stuff go to Federer's website and forum. I stopped hanging out over there because I was tired of the fanaticism of his "fans" (Just once I would like to see them refer to Rafael Nadal, Novak Djokovic, and Andy Murray by their names.
     
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  24. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    I've seen death,permanent maiming,and career ending injury wished on Nadal more times than I care to count over there. It's a cesspool and the mods over there should be sacked for not cleaning that place up.
     
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  25. kaku

    kaku Professional

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    Where is all this Murray has the flu talk coming from? I can't find any source on this

    Also the Murray hate in the past few days as been very minor compared to the hate during Wimbledon. I remember the Murray vs Baggy thread to be one of the biggest hate fests I've ever seen
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2012
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  26. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

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    Most of the RF.com posters are nuts beyond belief but the hard-core Nadal fans are no different. Have you ever looked at the comments from these hard-core Nadal fans/Federer haters on Twitter and blogs dedicated to Nadal? It is sickening beyond belief. Hard-core fans of both Federer and Nadal are equally disturbing.
     
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  27. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    The only place I have seen is VB,and while it can be bad at times,I have never seen anyone wish for Fed to die or be permanently maimed the way I have seen Fed fans talk about Nadal on RF.com. I don't read Twitter because I know places like that are full of nutsos who need a good head shrinker. They even trash on Fed on his own website,and have demanded that he retire many times because he was "embarrassing" them. They're bonkers over there.
     
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  28. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

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    I don't know about VB but I have seen some of the comments of these hard-core Nadal fans on Twitter and on other blogs dedicated only to Nadal and they are just as nutty as some of the fans on RF.com. Every day they talk endlessly about how perfect and great Nadal is and how evil Federer is. Honestly Clarky, both set of the more fanatical fans are nuts beyond belief. It is even. I could post some links to some of these Twitter accounts of the irrational Nadal fans but that would not be nice or fair.
     
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  29. oy vey

    oy vey Semi-Pro

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    Goodall and Koenig mentioned it today before the Fed match and Fang screamed it himself during the Stepanek match.
    "Im sick, I'm tired and I'm not playing well."
     
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  30. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    I am sure there are nutty Nadal fans out there too,but as a whole,Nadal gets a lot more hate and bile spewed at him than Fed does. It's on this site,MTF,tennis.com,tennis-x,Espn,etc...it's everwhere. It's nowhere near even imo.
     
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  31. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

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    If you are talking about Federer receiving more love from the sports journalists and commentators and people like that, you are correct. Federer is put on a higher pedestal than Nadal is in the media. But, if you are talking about fans who are fanatics, it is very even. Both sides have serious loony fans who take this all a little too seriously. On this forum there are more Federer fans/Nadal haters, no doubt, but on Twitter and in the blog world it is even.
     
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  32. Crisstti

    Crisstti Legend

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    Going by their number of Facebook fans that might be the case. I wonder why that could be though.

    I've never been to the forum on Fed's website because I don't think I want to see that kind of place, lol. I see enough Nadal hate here. And going by what's on BV, I'm sure what's on Fed's forum is not pretty.

    It's just the way lots of people are anyway. One can see it anywhere on the Internet. I remember years ago I just stopped posting on some Paul McCartney forum because people were were just so hateful, insane with jealousy over Heather Mills then.

    People are often just not pleasant :-?
     
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  33. RogerFan1991

    RogerFan1991 New User

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    Exactly.

    Btw, i think the real difference today were the 2 stupid breaks of serve, the one of the first was a present form federer with 3 consecutive double faults and a final unforced error to the net; and the second set break came with federer being 40-0 up and then he got distracted not making a single first serve and getting exposed to 3 return winners from murray who took advantage of weak second serves.
     
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  34. tacou

    tacou Legend

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    It's easy to understand why people don't like the guy. I enjoy Murray's game tremendously and off court he's a charmer, very humble and intelligent, but on court he can be very childish.

    Anyone who tries to discredit his success, they are delusional. He's clearly one of four elite players in the world, has been for years, and is steadily moving into the top 3 or 2.

    As far as flame wars go, head over to the NBA boards at ESPN.com. TT depresses me a lot but those boards are a joke. I don't know where to go on the internet to have an engaging conversation about sports.
     
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  35. slice bh compliment

    slice bh compliment G.O.A.T.

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    He will never be as beloved as Roger, but who will?

    What is not to like? Murray is focused, competitive and athletic. He plays smart tennis with effective strokes and movement. He is becoming less and less miserable on the court as he grows as a professional.

    I've always sort of rooted for him, and now he's even better.

    Allez Muzzer.
     
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  36. tistrapukcipeht

    tistrapukcipeht Professional

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    I picked Murray to win, I know when Fed is coming back from vacation his 1st tournament is just to get a rhythm, if He wins it, He wins it, if not, it doesn't matter, He wasn't too worried about it, I think Fed needed to rest a little more, but He knew the #1 ranking was in danger that's why He played it.
     
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  37. tistrapukcipeht

    tistrapukcipeht Professional

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    Btw: Did Murray Grow Up Without A Father Around Him??

    Does anybody know?
     
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  38. norbac

    norbac Legend

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    #38
  39. Zarfot Z

    Zarfot Z Semi-Pro

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    Nole has a very likable personality that makes up for his not-so-good on court behavior.

    The same cannot be said about Murray.
     
    #39
  40. als47

    als47 Rookie

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    I'm pretty sure he and his brother lived with their dad after their folks got divorced, actually. But someone can correct me if I'm wrong on that.
     
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  41. swordtennis

    swordtennis Hall of Fame

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    The team of Lendl and Murray is awesome to have.
    Hope they keep beating up on Federer, Nadal and Djokovic.
     
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  42. bluetrain4

    bluetrain4 Legend

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    That's why they're detractors. It's what they do. BTW, there's detractors for nearly all top players, even non-top players. Their detracting isn't really a "controversy."

    Murray's great. A lot of people agree. Don't play victim.
     
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  43. oy vey

    oy vey Semi-Pro

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    #43
  44. Vcore89

    Vcore89 Hall of Fame

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    Federer knows he still has the upper hand against Novak and Andy M. with the exception of Rafa. Naturally, Fed has to maintain that edge in whatever capacity he can. The ultimate ''goals'' remians to be the biggies...what can the guy do or do more for self preservation?:cool:
     
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  45. Sreeram

    Sreeram Professional

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    I know the reason why many here fail to appreciate the brilliance of Murray while the commentators and pros know his value. His game is boring to most guys here because their understanding of tennis is so limited. Even to understand and appreciate Murray's game needs a standard which many here do not posses.

    If you see today's game with roger the different options that Murray has with his BH is awesome. He mixes things well. In one of the point against Roger today he hit a rocket speed BH to Fed's BH in a rallay, the next shot had the same placement but more spinny BH. Roger soon errored on hit BH. An average tennis fan will think that Murray won the point because of Roger's mistake but the truth is Murray hit two different shots with similar placement but different trajectory, spin and pace. Something that will offset your opponents timing, even a great like Roger. If you keep observing his game like this, you will find lot more things that he keeps doing to setup a point win. It is not a same strategy that Nadal uses like running around FH and hitting extreme topspin or what fed does like hitting though his opponent by his powerful shot.

    The point is there is a silent beauty in his game that not many average tennis fans can not appreciate. You need some class to even understand it.
     
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  46. Danny_G13

    Danny_G13 Rookie

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    Good thread. Lots of very reasonable opinions. Well done!
     
    #46
  47. PeteD

    PeteD Hall of Fame

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    #47
  48. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    I thought all that cussing was sorted out with Lendl coming in. Yesterday was quite shocking, how he was swearing after each point lost.

    Looking at his lips move, looked like he was swearing in rural Punjabi (nothing worse than that in the world, believe me!).
     
    #48
  49. tusharlovesrafa

    tusharlovesrafa Hall of Fame

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    LOOOL..I didnt see the match but this must have been hilarious..Teri Jaat ka paida maro!!:D:lol::shock:
     
    #49
  50. Russeljones

    Russeljones G.O.A.T.

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    I didn't watch it but just to reiterate what I have said after the US Open final. Lendl's role is very hazy as far as I am concerned. I don't see Murray improving technically or his temperament being dealt with. If all Lendl did was play a trick and make Murray believe the pressure was off, then fair play that's good enough. We might never find out but Lendl's qualifications are still suspect.
     
    #50

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