The myth that pro's with 1hbh's are weaker against high balls...

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by always_crosscourt, Jan 8, 2013.

  1. always_crosscourt

    always_crosscourt Banned

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    haha, look at the link to Gasquet's backhand. Hell, even look at the link to Gaudio's backhand earlier in this thread. You are not even going to be able to reach up that high with two hands on the racket, let alone get a meaningful hit on it.
     
    #51
  2. BevelDevil

    BevelDevil Hall of Fame

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    It's not a myth, but I think it's often exaggerated.

    I think there's definitely a strike-zone "gap" (on the upper side) between the 2hbh and the 1hbh (with the 2hbh being higher).

    This gap is huge at the lower recreational level where people are using the wrong grips for the 1hbh and/or don't have the right timing.

    As the skill level rises, the gap shrinks but doesn't completely close.

    There are always exceptions (weak 2hbhs, strong 1hbhs), but I'm talking about the typical cases.


    But what's the reason behind this?

    I think the main reason is that to get the racket head high above the shoulders, the 1-hander supinates more before contact. The longer the lag between the beginning of supination and contact, harder it is to time right.


    What part of the swing does chin ups help with?
     
    #52
  3. above bored

    above bored Semi-Pro

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    Yeah, the slice is an additional option for the milder grip.
     
    #53
  4. above bored

    above bored Semi-Pro

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    A 2hbh would be able to deal with both of those balls very effectively, but like I said before, you have to have the correct technique. You can’t just try the 2hbh for a couple of weeks or months and expect to have it down. It takes many years. In many ways it’s a more complicated stroke mechanically, because it requires more kinetic harmony between the 2 arms, torso and feet. Still, once you get it right I think the more stable head makes it easier to control the ball for most.

    The 1hbh clearly has more reach above the head, since in principle you can potentially go as high as an overhead smash, but you don’t seem to be aware that you can go well above the head with the 2hbh too (just a tad shorter than a fully extended overhead) and create good pace and spin, but the positioning of your body has to be more precise, because of the more restricted reach. The left arm is also a key component for a righty looking to get power that high up.
     
    #54
  5. bjsnider

    bjsnider Professional

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    If the ball is really high you'll see players with 2hbh jump into the shot, which is quite devastating.
     
    #55
  6. always_crosscourt

    always_crosscourt Banned

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    Gasquet also does a jumping 1hbh, he hit a winner off a Nadal forehand in Monte Carlo using it.

    As for how chin ups will help with the 1hbh - they strengthen the posterior shoulder musculature as well as the lats. Both of these help to adduct and extend the arm, which are actions that occur in the 1hbh.

    If all these people complaining how hard it is to hit a high 1hbh were doing chin-ups with an additional 140lbs tied around their waist, I wonder how hard they would find to hit a high 1hbh. My guess is nowhere near as hard as they are currently finding it.

    Tennis players are always going on about how they shouldn't touch weights, but you can get stronger without getting heavier.
     
    #56
  7. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    an additional 140lbs?!

    gasquet is a tennis player, not mr olympia!
     
    #57
  8. always_crosscourt

    always_crosscourt Banned

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    I can do it, and I'm not Mr. Olympia.
     
    #58
  9. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    that's 63 kg or so.

    basically he should ask his girlfriend to hang on to him as he does chin ups while wearing a tennis bag full of his gear...
     
    #59
  10. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    maybe fed uses a more conservative grip (like he does on his FH)?

    I think players who use an extreme BH grip deal better with high balls to their
    1HBH.
     
    #60
  11. tennisdad65

    tennisdad65 Hall of Fame

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    Not a myth, even for the pro's. They may hit it well and it looks great, but it is just not consistent enough for the pro level.

    In this situation, either move back or move forward and take it at a better height. If you are taking it above your head with a 1HBH topspin you are in the wrong position. If it is over my head, I slice it back.
     
    #61
  12. bjsnider

    bjsnider Professional

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    I'll spend the next 5 years in the gym 6 hours a day 7 days a week, put on 25 pounds of muscle, and get back to you on the 1hbh issue.
     
    #62
  13. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    People who say one-handers can't handle high balls to the backhand never saw tennis prior to this decade. Guys like Muster and Kuerten or any of the other clay-courters of earlier decades never had any trouble.
    It is a different stroke with often much different grip than the one Federer hits. Most clay-courters now grew up with 2 handed backhands, so you just don't see them as much.
     
    #63
  14. ultradr

    ultradr Hall of Fame

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    Of course they can be handled. It's just that,... There are more 1 handers
    with some trouble than ones with trouble.

    Players with potent 1 hander, say like Gasquet, is very rare. Very very rare.
     
    #64
  15. Feather

    Feather Hall of Fame

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    Well, they never dealt with the insane amount of topspin that Nadal generates So you never know.
     
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  16. BevelDevil

    BevelDevil Hall of Fame

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    Wawrinka handles it fine.

    And so did Zeballos, lol. (Muster was left handed, also)
     
    #66
  17. cmarshall7

    cmarshall7 New User

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    Remember though that strings were different back then. There's no way a player back in the 80's/90's could hit a shot as heavy as someone like nadal can these days.
     
    #67
  18. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    Brugera, I believe, has the highest documented topspin on the forehand of anyone other than Nadal. Poly does add a few % more, enough to make a difference to the pros, but it isn't a fundamental difference. It definitely opens up more angles, but the difference in bounce height on clay is greater day-to-day from the weather conditions (which can be quite a lot) than from poly to non-poly. By the way, there was poly around in Kuerten's day - that what he used.
     
    #68

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