The Official Lead Tape Placement+Racket Customization Thread

Discussion in 'Racquets' started by xFullCourtTenniSx, Jan 29, 2010.

  1. Shroud

    Shroud Legend

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    My 2 cents is It really doesnt matter. Either way is fine. I think I have put as much as 5 strips on top of each other.

    If you are really anal then yeah start over. In theory overlapping will center more weight in a specific spot, but I would doubt anyone would notice the difference between leaving them on or starting over.
     
  2. bageldog

    bageldog Rookie

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    has anybody else found that you get a more consistent stringbed response by applying long thin lead strips? for example I add 3 grams (1.5 each side) to 3 and 9, but cut the 1/2 inch lead in half, and then in half again, so I have 6 inch x 1/8 long skinny strips. found that if the strips are fat and short, it is quite obvious by feel, shock/vibration, and even sound when you hit the ball beyond where the lead ends. this was especially pronounced when i did this on a vcore tour F 310, which is pretty stiff and extremely dense stringbed, with full poly. The interesting thing, is I tried putting strips more at the corners (10/2 and 8/4), and could totally tell when I hit a ball in the middle of the racket (3/9 distance from handle) it didn't feel as nice as when I hit it a little farther out (10/2) distance. Anyways, long story short, try spreading your lead out. there isn't too much curvature of the racket around 3/9 so you still get close to maximum torsional stability, but you'll find a more consistent feel. I don't place lead at 12, but I'd guess that you'll get a little consistent feel and more stability with longer thin strips than short fat ones. if you keep it in the very top of the hoop the curvature isn't much so its still pretty close to maximum SW effect
     
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  3. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Myself I have not. I try to always keep my lead strips at 4" or less and if I need more weight I layer the weight or use a heavier lead tape. Reason being the longer the strip of lead tape you add the higher the inertia of that lead strip. So if you have 10 g of lead spread out over 10" it will have a little higher than a layered 3-4" strip of lead. It will make very little difference but a small difference. Another advantage is the sweet spot tends to move towards the added mass so if you add 10" strip to the sides instead of layered shorter strips you would have a longer sweet spot on shots high or lower than you sweet spot. But you could add weight in the handle or butt to do the same thing using less mass.

    Does it make a difference? If you think it does absolutely, but not every one will agree it makes a difference.
     
  4. crazyvictor

    crazyvictor New User

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    If I'm trying to weight my Pure Aero up to the Pure Aero Tour while shifting my sweet spot up a little and adding some swing weight, should I be doing long strips of tape at 12 o'clock maybe 4-5 inches long and then adding the same amount into the handle 6" above the end?
     
  5. zalive

    zalive Professional

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    I like the idea, this is kind of hoop fine tuning when you don't want either to add too much mass, or to concentrate it at some short area.

    I guess the significant string bed area is 8-10 center mains, and first 12-14 crosses from the tip to the center.
    So if a player wants to enhance a sweet zone in this area, makes a lot of sense that longer but thinner run is better than fatter yet shorter run. Because it will make the sweet zone wider more evenly.

    Pro player's customizers like P1 don't have that dilemma whenever they have business with pro stock hairpins which are light enough to comfortably take the full 1/2'' lead strip at required length. I experienced the same while customizing light racquets. If I want to put a long run all the way from 9 to 3 o'clock, and then add some more at 12 o'clock, no problem - I have enough space because the hoop was light enough.

    However, even on a heavier frames I still find protection tape quite satisfactory for such fine tuning. Tourna tape is about 90% mass of a single lead strip run, so it's 45% compared to twin strips. If I cut the middle out its less than that. When I come to about one third of a 1/2 lead tape (per length unit), I don't need finer than that.

    Also, when adding to 3+9 o'clock to improve twist weight, I started to put protection tape on the outer side. Because the difference from outer to the inner side is at least 15%+ added RW, meaning that you get more of desired effect for the same mass used on sides. Lead may look better, but this is more useful :)
     
  6. bageldog

    bageldog Rookie

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    i like the idea of adding the weight on the outside of the hoop seems like you'd get increased stability as if the racket head was larger than it actually is. might have to try that. I guess the downside is it might feel like you're maneuring a 100 sq in head when its really only 98
     
  7. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    I assume you're talking about raising the COP node of your tennis racket. It's easy to change it as the COP is dependant upon the inertia of the racket, the center of mass, and the pivot point on the handle. Raising the COM raises the COP. Rod Cross mentions about thre different ways to determine the COP in a book he do-authored, the Physics and Technology of Tennis.

    If you add mass at 12 and counterbalance it by adding mass in the handle your COP changes very little if any. In Cross's book the formula for the COP is 9.78" X T^2 where T is the period of the racket when swung from the handle pivot point. Because the period is solely dependant on the pivot, COM, and inertia you need to determine the exact pivot point where the center of your index finger meets the racket and not just use the arbitrary pivot point of 10 cm (or 4".) Because it is easier to use a cross string for the racket to pivot on you'll probably need to use a formula to convert the period to your specific pivot point.

    http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/pendp.html

    EDIT: A much simpler way to determine the COP is to use RacquetTune. Input your parameters, and add weight where you want and let RT compute the COP for you but then you will be using more standardized reference poin like 10 cm pivot I guess.

    EDIT: Using RT is you add 4 g of lead at 12 on the BPA you will raise the COP from 55.4 cm to 55.9 cm. if you add 4 g at 15 cm (6") you will drop the COP to 55.8 cm. if you to move the mass at 15 cm all the way down the COP drops to 55.1 cm.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2016
  8. DanFuller

    DanFuller Rookie

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    Help please. I have Vcore Tour G 310s which are a little light.

    I have a tourna over grip added on which has made the racket even more headlight.

    If I add 2g to 12 what will it do to the sW? The og weighs around 6gs

    Thanks
     
  9. zalive

    zalive Professional

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    It will add about 6.5 SW points. You can count that 3 g at 12 o'clock adds about 10 SW.
     
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  10. DanFuller

    DanFuller Rookie

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    Thank you. Would you add any at 9&3 for stability?
     
  11. zalive

    zalive Professional

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    That depends on your preferrence, how much twist stability you like. But good advice was given to start at 12 o'clock, and then see if you would like a more twist stable racquet, if yes than add some (2-4 grams, say).
     
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  12. morten

    morten Hall of Fame

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    Not that it matters much but my experience is 2g is 7 swingweight points.
     
  13. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Actually somewhere in between, again not that it matters. Inertia is the cumulative mass in Kg times the distance squared from the pivot. If you assume the distance from the 10 cm pivot is 58 cm then .002*58*58=6.728 kgcm^2.

    If you're going to turn around and add mass at 3&9 that will also increase SW at the same time that TW is increased.
     
  14. DanFuller

    DanFuller Rookie

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    Ok. So 2g either side at 3&9 would do what exactly?

    Sorry for the fools questions.
     
  15. morten

    morten Hall of Fame

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    I like further up for some reason.. read somewhere that there was a different sw added there making it sluggish in a different way than at 12. 10 and 2 works best for me but it depends on the racket..
     
  16. zalive

    zalive Professional

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    That depends mostly on racquet itself (stock twist weight?). If you like much higher twist weight than currently then 10/2 o'clock placement cannot quite do the job. Though this placement is great to widen up the sweet spot for baseline spin hitting.

    As for 3+9 o'clock, it's again preferrence. I like twist stability and I feel I benefit more with a stable racquet than what I lose with a bit less maneuverability. But that's me, it's not a recipy for everyone.

    In the future I think I'll use more 9.30/2.30 o'clock lead placement (which will be more 9-10 and 2-3 placement). Seems like a good place, still excellent twist weight effect, yet the accent is again on the hitting zone.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2016
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  17. DanFuller

    DanFuller Rookie

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    Thank you.
     
  18. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Because the answer depends specifically on the racket itself I measure a racket to get some values. The inside values of 3&9 measured 11.95 cm from the rackets center and was 42.3 cm above the 10 cm standard SW point. The TW would increase 11.95*11.95*.004=0.57121 kgcm^2 while the SW would increase 42.3*42.3*.004=7.15716 kgcm^2.

    To get a better ideas of what that means you have to know the initial values of the SW and TW to see how much of an increase you're talking about. So let assume you're starting with a racket that has a SW of 315 and a TW of 13. The SW increase would be (7.15716/315) 2.272% and at the same time the TW would increase (.57121/13) 4.394%. To get a better idea of how increases in TW and SW will be noticeable see this article.
    http://www.tennisindustrymag.com/articles/2005/02/a_new_twist_on_the_twistweight.html
     
  19. LHM

    LHM Rookie

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    I have recently purchased a used Yonex AI 100 that has lead tape on the butt cap. The seller tells me he thinks there is 20 grams on there?! That seems A LOT to me? I have not taken the grip off yet as it does not need changing yet but my question is, 20 grams seems a heck of a lot to put on the butt cap, surely this cant be right??
     
  20. zalive

    zalive Professional

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    Seems that Yonex manufacturing quality went downhill so they make it up by putting lead on the handle and butt cap. Someone from the board already put pictures of factory lead taped Yonex.

    The problem is not in lead itself nor in its quantity. The problem might be in what's its balance now and how it differs from the specifications. Because there's a possibility that stock hoop is too light and not similar at all to specifications, if lead was put just to get the static weight close to the specified value.

    But this doesn't quite belong to this thread, so I'll stop here.
     
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  21. crux

    crux New User

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    This thread is so helpful
    Thanks so much

    I have a question

    If I add 6 g on 3&9 how many gram I should add to counterbalance. And I should paste it outside overgrip or inside.

    Thanks
     
  22. Shroud

    Shroud Legend

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    Thats not a lot on the handle. At that location it doesnt really affect the sw that much. I have put around 100g on some rackets and typically do 60g.

    FWIW overgrips weigh about 6-12g so 20g is like adding a 2nd og.

    Now 20g at 12pm is alot in terms of SW.
     
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  23. LHM

    LHM Rookie

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    well I took all the lead tape off and weighed it, there was 15g there.
     
  24. Shroud

    Shroud Legend

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    Guys are ALWAYS exaggerating measurements...
     
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  25. zalive

    zalive Professional

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    I used to say that it's good to counterbalance couple of times more grams at the handle, to compensate for the weight on the hoop by going more head light.

    But the truth is, it actually depends on the racquet that you modify as well as on your preferrence, and there are no rules here in advance. So, what you can do is to counterbalance it with exact grams and then experiment by adding some more and how you feel it in the game. And it's actually not that easy to get it from the first take.

    The best is to either put blue tac or similar in the handle, or to wrap lead around the handle (my preffered spot is near the butt) under a basic grip. If you have a trap door this makes things easier a bit to play with.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2016
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  26. crux

    crux New User

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    I used Babolat AeroPro Team 2014, Unstrung Weight: 280g, Unstrung Balance: 2 pts Head Light, Swingweight: 293 kg · cm2,

    I bought babolat tungsten balance tape (3 tape, 1 tape = 3g) and I added 6g on my 12 (3g each side), 3g below my buttcapp. And I added a Rubberband Damper on my racquet face too.

    So What is the weigh of my racquet and my SW after this
     
  27. Shroud

    Shroud Legend

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    How can you guys play with those rubber bands extending into the hitting area like that? Isnt that illegal?
     
  28. zalive

    zalive Professional

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    So it's basically now total of 9 g at 12 o'clock, if I understand?

    If so, you should have gained about 30 SW points (since 3 g at 12 o'clock is pretty accurately 10 SW, perhaps one under the grommet might add 1 SW pt more). Rubberband is I guess almost negligeable since it cannot be more than couple of grams at most, so perhaps it adds about 1 SW pt. So, based on stock SW should be around 324-325.

    But the accurate SW depends on real SW of your racquet, which can quite differ from the specified value because of the tolerance (+/- 10 SW or even more is not least unexpected).
     
  29. crux

    crux New User

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    Thanks, but It's 6g at 12. I read it somewhere that 1g at 12 add 3 SW but I can't find it anywhere now. I don't know still not on court since I add it, It's a little bit heavier but I need to be on court to know what happen now.

    I thought It's legel
    I think tennis star use it too

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  30. zalive

    zalive Professional

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    One gram at 12 o'clock actually adds a bit more, about +3.3 SW, 3 grams are approximately +10 SW. So 6 grams are +20 SW.
     
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  31. Shroud

    Shroud Legend

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    Yeah I bet it is. But why do they tie it so its in the hitting area? 1st the rubber band never seems to be enough dampening for me and I would have to use 4-5 of them but I would tie them so its pointing down toward the handle not toward the tip. Roddicks is ok.
     
  32. Karma Tennis

    Karma Tennis Semi-Pro

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    The rule regarding dampeners is subject to interpretation by the official.

    In my experience, there is usually no issue if the dampener is attached to the stringbed outside of the cross string. In the case of rubber bands, the knot is usually tied outside of the cross strings. The loops of the knot are not deliberately designed to touch inside the cross string so it would be hard for an official to claim it is illegal.
     
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  33. Sander001

    Sander001 Hall of Fame

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    Vacate their titles immediately!
     
  34. Minion

    Minion Professional

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    Can someone please help me with something? I'm in the process of adding lead tape to my racquets. So, I've done all the measurements, and used the Customisation Tool on TW to calculate how much lead tape I need, and where to add it. I have a reel of the 1/4 inch lead tape. I need to add 12g at 24.0 in on the racquet, all good. The lead tape weighs .25g for every 1 inch (according to TW). That means that I need 48 in of lead tape to add 12g, ok. I can cut the tape into 8 pieces and use strips of 15.24cm and paste one on top of the other.

    My question is this: Does the full amount of weight have to be added to the exact place where the Customisation Tool indicates, and not extend beyond it (seems impossible)? I would imagine the shorter the strips, the more accurate it would be to get the desired spec? Should I stick with 8 x 15.24cm strips, or cut them shorter and just add more on top of each other?
     
  35. zalive

    zalive Professional

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    TW tool is kind of help for players that wish to customize but know very little about customization.
    Of course there are other options/places. But to know where to put lead, you need to know to describe what you actually want with your current setup, compared to your current as-is situation.

    What is good to know:
    • lead increases sweet zone (spot) in the direction of where you put it. So, if you want a more useful spin window then you're interested in 9-10 and 2-3 h o'clock zones. And if you want to make the upper hoop more powerful generally then you want to place some lead at 12 o'clock
    • 3+9 o'clock zone is the best to increase twist stability (by increasing twist weight)
    • 12 o'clock zone is the best to increase SW the most with least added static mass
    • lead at the butt is the most effective way to counterbalance the lead added on the hoop and to move center of mass (balance point) the most towards (more) HL balance
    • by polarizing your racquet's head will tend to go faster through the ball; by depolarizing (7'' at the handle, throat, 6 o'clock) your do the opposite, racquet's head will tend to slow down (there's a topic on MgR/I)
    • using a heavier grip like leather or heavy synt grip will somehow result like depolarizing approach (it tends to slow down racquet's head)
    • basically you want your racquet to travel evenly and naturally through the swing to enhance your precision, though some players may have a different preferrence
    If you're ready to add 12 grams at the hoop, one possible approach is to do the whole length run from 9 all the way to 3 o'clock. I did that with my experimental Destiny FCS setup and it turned out great, resulting in a huge sweet spot which spreads in all directions. This is Novak's type customization. Putting it all to 12 o'clock doesn't have the same effect.
     
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  36. Minion

    Minion Professional

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    Thank you, some good info there:)
     
  37. zalive

    zalive Professional

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    Thanx.
    I forgot to add: placing mass on both 12 o'clock and the butt increases recoil weight (RW) the most - and high RW is excelent for arm comfort, volleying and returns.
    However, doing Novak's type setup and counterbalancing at the butt will give you a great RW as well, no need to put all at 12 o'clock.
     
  38. TennisCJC

    TennisCJC Legend

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    I am a rec string and customize my own racket. But, I use 1/4 inch lead tape and long strips. Right now I have two 1/4 strips that are 8" long center at noon on each side of the string bed under the bumper. I also have used long strips ranging from 2" to 8" centered at 9/3 and 10/2 o'clock in the past.

    I've seen pictures of Federer's, Djokovic's, and Verdasco's frames with long strings either under the bumper or on the sides. Greg Raven's review of Sampras' frame showed he used long strips that were also layered but you get a lot of weight that way. I think long strips are fairly common.

    I like long strips but have never tried say 1" to 2" strips layered 2 or 3 layers deep.
     
  39. crux

    crux New User

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    Hi just want you guy to know after add 6g on 12 and 3g below the buttcapp in the 1st practice I still can't not feel the ball, I feel It's hard (heavier) to swing and the worse is I feel uncomfortable in my hand so I decide to change the tape to 3h-9h I add 3g to 6 and 3g to 9 (I don't add anything below the buttcapp this time). And the good thing is I play a little bit better (still not at a really good level) but I think somehow It's a slowly work for me, especially on my return I can return alot better. And I'm so happy that with the new customize racquet I have 1st win over my friend who played better than me off the ground. He didn't play well today, almost no 1st serve and I put the pressure on his serve, I still hit many errors but a win is a win and I feel really good now.

    I think It's a really good choice to add lead on 3h-9h If you like to play flat

    Thanks OP and people here
     
  40. zalive

    zalive Professional

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    Usually, if you add 6 grams at 12 o'clock you need to counterbalance it with at least 6 grams at the butt. But I'd usually add at least 10-12 grams at the butt.
    What you did previously would work only on some racquets (very headlight).
    If I added 6 grams total at 3+9 o'clock then I'd add at least 6 grams at the butt.
    Gain with 3+9 o'clock is stability and wider sweet spot.
     
  41. Minion

    Minion Professional

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    So, before the weekend, I decided to modify my IGPP's. The stock weight and balance was ok, but with a SW of 323, it felt a bit like a squash racquet. So I added some lead tape at 3, 9 and 12. I also removed the leather grip, and added lead tape on the pallet, to make up for the weight and added a normal Head synthetic grip and ended up with the following specs:
    Weight: 361g
    Balance: 33cm
    SW: 355

    I played some singles and doubles with it over the weekend. Wow, it feels amazing, effortless power, especially with my 1HBH, I can let the racquet do most of the work. It is still light enough to rip the ball, but heavy / stable enough so I can play at 80% effort and get more power and spin, than I had before I customised it:)
     
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  42. zalive

    zalive Professional

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    Yep, that's pretty much the idea of a heavier setup...let the racquet do the work for you, instead of muscling it...
     
  43. zalive

    zalive Professional

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    duplicate post
     
  44. Minion

    Minion Professional

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    Which is exactly what I wanted to achieve:)

    Thanks for your input, it helped me alot:D
     
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  45. Minion

    Minion Professional

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    duplicate post, board seems dodgy...
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2016
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