Discussion in 'Racquets' started by xFullCourtTenniSx, Jan 29, 2010.
How is this not a sticky?
lol i don't know mr. shiver. I tried checking through all the posts in this thread and did not find one which addressed my question.
Well where exactly did you put the tape and how much at each location. You only gave the total weight added. Also if ynu want to check this or any other weight adjustments, google swing weight calculator. There should be a link to an online java based tool that calculates the changes.
right then. by the way I have a Head Radical LM MP. so according to the instructions, if I want the racquet to weigh 343g, and I only want to add weight at 3 and 9 o'clock, I need to add 6g at 3 and 9 (given it's 325 SW, and the instructions say to start with 5g, and add 1g for each 5 units of SW below 330) and 19 g at about 6.5in up the handle, as I calculated with the given equation. The lead tape added at 3 and 9 is two strips of 1/4in lead tape 6in long, at 1g per 4 in.
Don't really need a swingweight calculator, I know it will increase
...I'm interested in whether stock balance (in my case, about 3 pts HL) changes, and if so, how.
Here you go bro: http://http://www.racquettech.com/store/learningcenter/lc_combinedswtbal.html
It has swingweight AND balance. Invaluable tool, just fill in the original specs and then what you added. Simple stuff. I would have done it myself to verify it for you but my mobile sucks and doesn't get java apps.
Thanks for looking up that calculator for me, mr. shiver.
For those who might be a bit confused with it, if you are trying to create a depolarized setup like me, you need to use the calculator twice: once for each time you add weight (i.e. once for when you add weight to the hoop, the next when you counterbalance in the handle).
If you're curious, mr. shiver, the calculations provided in the first post are accurate: overall, in the setup I described for myself above, my racquet becomes about 1 pt more HL. I imagine it would be the same for different setups too, though I would use the calculator first to make sure.
Customizing a Babolat APDGT - Newbie Needs Help
Having read through pages and pages of threads including this one on customizing/leading-up I still need the input of any much more knowledgeable and experienced than I...which is probably everyone on this board.
I'm looking for specific suggestions to polarize my brand new APDGT.
APDGT Racquet specs
100 sq. in. / 645 sq. cm.
Length: 27 inches / 69 cm
Strung Weight: 11.3oz / 320g
Balance: 4 pts HL
I use an L2 grip (4 1/4") which is the original Bab Syntec grip...Grip specs at
To give a little more background, my previous racquet was a
100 sq. in. / 645 sq. cm.
Length: 27 inches / 69 cm
Strung Weight: 10.5oz / 298g
Balance: 3pts Head Light
I found immediate improvement with the Bab over the Wilson in my desire to hit heavy, penetrating topspin shots with better spin and much better depth, while using very much a Windshield Wiper forehand technique and a FH grip thats near halfway between Semi-Western and Western, ie. I'd call it a weak Western grip.
I prefer to bash topspin shots from the baseline, and I also employ the 2HBH.
I think the reason for the improvement upon changing racquets was mostly the weight increase but also the APDGT just seems to approve of my FH and also BH strokes so it likes to reward me with better shots .
So to my question:
I want even more of what I gained in switching racquets, maybe I'm being greedy but I'm curious as to how far I can improve by going in this same direction...by customizing/Polarizing my APDGT... but I want to try it in reasonably manageable increments.
So in following the general concensus of the experts on this forum I want to add lead at 12 0'Clock and also a small amount at 9 and 3 so as not to lose too much stability. I also want to consider changing up to the Bab natural leather grip which looks like it will add 7 grams total weight.
Lets say, for example I start out with 6 grams at 12 O'clock...with the need to add a little at 9 and 3 and also with the grip weight increase and/or counterbalance, won't this just be too much ? What about the HL balance point - with the changes will the racquet all of a sudden be a head heavy beast ?
With the new grip do I still need to add counterbalance in the butt-cap ??
As an alternative what if I leave the Syntec grip in place...would this make it this project any easier ??
I don't really get why you want to polarize your racquet. The babolat isn't that polarized compared to the wilson. It's 22 grams heavier, while the swingweight is only 21 units higher. That doesn't suggest a more polarized frame.
A polarized frame would have a much higher (increase in) swingweight for a given weight and balance.
Regardless, to polarize your bab, you'd put the lead at 12 and the butt. Putting 6 grams at 12 would increase the SW with about 20, which is quite a big leap. You don't lose any stability by doing this. You could however add lead at 9 and 3 to increase stability, but that would make the racket less polarized compared to adding it at 12 instead.
Adding the leather grip will add 7 grams spread along the handle, while the 6 grams at 12 are at the extremity of the frame (not even regarding any weight at 3&9). So your balance will likely become a little more headheavy, but remain headlight. If you don't change the grip, you could add about 7 grams of lead at the butt, to counterbalance (the butt is about 13" away from the original balance point, while 12 o'clock is 14" away, so adding 6 at the butt won't be enough)
Thanks for taking the time to read my post - much appreciated.
If this newb understands you correctly, if I add 6 grams at 12 and change the grip to a 7g grip, I will increase the SW by an estimated 20 grams and I would still maintain a head light balance.
This sounds like a tad too heavy a SW for a first trial at Polarizing.. suppose I target an increase of 10-15 grams in swing weight by adding some weight at 12 PLUS a little lead at 3 and 9 and with the leather grip modification. Are there numbers that would work ?
If you or anyone else wants to comment on this one...Is my requesting that I maintain a HL status a worthwhile objective for Polarizing ?
Thanks again for any and all help !
There are a lot of ways to increase the SW by 10 to 15 (SW is not measured in grams actually, it's in kg*cm^2).
Adding 1 gram at 12 will add about 3.4. Adding 1 gram at 3 or 9 (about 20" or 50cm) will add about 1.6
So you could for example try 3 grams at 3 and 9, and 3 grams at 12 (6 grams total).
Something which can be interesting or at least fun to try also, is polarizing your wilson, which starts at a lower weight and swingweight, so you can add more to it. Let's say something like 9 grams at 12, and 13 at the buttcap. That would match the weight and balance with your babolat as it is now, while having a much higher swingweight, around 342.
You can play with things yourself using the twu worksheet:
You could always go with the less scientific route and go by how it feels. Start with a little weight and keep adding until it feels wrong. Then remove it until it feels right again. Give the depolarized set up a try too, you might like it. The increased stability and plow can be quite addictive
Thanks so much cellofaan - I'll play around with all these tools ! Feel kinda dumb about the swing-weight units not being grams, I'm an engineer so I should know better
Great thread here, awesome.
Is there any way to calculate the amount of swingweight gained from adding 40 inches of 1/4 inch lead tape ( 10 grams ) all the way from 3 to 9?
You can divide the lead in several shorter strips, and measure where the center of each strip is on the racket and their weight
i.e. a strip from 3 to 2 (9-10), 2 to 1 (10-11), and 1 to 11.
that'll give you a pretty good estimate.
I just leaded my rackets up, hopefully i like it! STICKY THIS!
what does sw1 and sw2 mean?
Do an advance search for the term "SW2" with "travlerajm" in the author slot. "Swingweight 2" is a concept introduced by travelerajm several years ago. The OP of this thread does not understand these terms, or at least he didn't when he wrote the OP. In fact, most of the information in the OP was lifted from travlerajm's threads over the years: polarized, depolarized, etc.
Travlerajm has done a series of major customization experiments and these concepts developed from them. Some of these ideas have been controversial and highly disputed on these boards, but personally I think he's one clever dude and much more often right than wrong.
SW1: A range of swingweights at which the player will find less spin as the swingweight increases. This is due to diminishing swingspeed with higher swingweights. In the SW1 range, lower swingweights will give more spin but less power. This demands a tradeoff: you can choose a low-swingweight stick and have maneuverability, swingspeed and spin, or choose a higher-swingweight stick and have intrinsic power and stability, but less spin.
SW2: A swingweight threshold, differing for each player, above which travlerajm theorizes that the mass in the head will compress the ball enough to provide additional spin. As I understand it, this is unproven, but the theory is that after the ball leaves the strings a' spinning it returns to normal shape. This increases the radius of the ball, and thus the spin level. So above SW2 (which seems to be around 365 for most people) this ball crushing will start to give you more spin. The point is that now you have the additional intrinsic power and stability of high swingweight, but you're getting back the spin you lost with slower swingspeeds.
So, if you have a stick of 320 swingweight you might be able to swing it at 65 mph and generate x rpms of spin.
At 350 swingweight you'll have more intrinsic power and stability but your swingspeed might be limited to 60 mph and you'll only be able to generate ~.9x rpms of spin.
At 365 swingweight (SW2) you'll have even more intrinsic power and stability (enough to be addicting) but your swingspeed will be limited even more, perhaps to 58 mph. If your were still at SW1 you would be able to generate only .88x rpms of spin. But now, since you're past the ball-crushing, SW2 threshold, you'll actually get ~.88x + y rpms of spin. Best of both worlds: the power and stability of a high-swingweight stick and the spin of a low-swingweight stick. At least that's the theory.
Personally, I'm a little dubious, but I would love to see the concept lab-tested. In any case it's worth a go if you have the lead. Just be careful of your shoulder when serving at that high of swingweight. Let the racquet do the work!
This recent thread will give you a good idea of what Trav's been up to of late: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=279680
Alright so I have a Head MicroGel Radical MP and I want to polarize it.
How much should I add at 12? I was thinking like 3-5 grams or something.
Also would it be better if I put tape at the handle at 7" or at the bottom of the buttcap? As polarizing as far as I know is putting weight near the poles.
And last question, if I add a certain amount to the hoop should I add the exact same amount at the handle?
I am going to take the plunge into customization
What do you feel is the best way to add weight to the butt end of the racket? I am using the PDR+C, and know that the cap comes off of the butt of the frame. I'd just as soon not have to remove the grip to add the weight.
My thought is to drop some cotton into the butt of the racket, which will be held close to the end by the staples. I am tinkering with the ideal weight, so I want to be able to easily remove/add weights.
My question is: will the lead weight (1/2 oz) stay in place with the cotton balls, or do I risk the chance that the weights will push through the cotton, and rattle around underneath the grip?
Also, to add 1/2 oz to the butt end, should I use 1/4 oz weights on either side of the divider inside the racket grip, or will one 1/2 oz weight on either side be negligible enough to not cause "weight imbalance" issues with forehand/backhand shots?
There is no set rule for polarizing a racket. If you put more lead at the two ends, it will be more polarized. So, you should add however you feel like adding. Starting with 3 grams at 12 should give a noticable effect and then you can decide to put on more lead, or keep it.
Putting lead at 7" can make your frame more polarized, but it depends on how polarized it is to start with. Imagine a frame in which all the weight is located in the middle. Adding lead anywhere else would make the frame more polarized.
Now imagine a frame with half the weight at 12, and half the weight at the butt. Adding lead anywhere else would make the frame less polarized.
So, adding it at 7" may or may not polarize it, but adding it at the butt will polarize it more.
And for the amount to counterbalance, that depends on what you want to achieve. If you want to maintain the original balance, you'll have to add more lead to the handle than at 12, because 12 is further away from the original balancepoint than the buttcap is. Otherwise you should add until you feel you have reached a nice balance. So usually you'll be adding different amounts of lead.
If you put that much lead in it, the chunk of leadtape will likely be too large to push through the staples, so you'll be fine. The cotton will prevent rattling.
You won't notice any difference between dividing the lead or putting it in the same hole. You'll only start noticing it when you do something like that with lead in the hoop or throat.
Cellofan, what can I do if I add 3 grams at 12 o'clock to keep the sweetspot the same? I don't mind the balance at all after adding lead at 12, but I would like to keep the sweetspot the same. Thanks in advance!
I have a depolarized setup for my AeroStorm GT but I want a little more spin my current setup is 6 grams at 3 and 9 and 21 grams at the throat should I add more wieght to the hoop to make it more polarized or take some off the throat?
i added a tw leather grip to my babolat pure drive+.
old syntec grip weight is 17.4g.
tw leather grip weight is 32g.
basically i increased the weight by 14.6g + supergrab overgrip
does this make my pure drive+ equal to the pure drive roddick+ now? where will i be able to calculate how much more head light i have made the racquet?
You can put some lead at 6 o'clock, the throat, or maybe the handle.
Basically, everything you add below the sweetspot will move the sweetspot down, but there isn't a set rule for how much lead at which spot will work best.
I'd try it with just the lead at 12 first, and then try some different setups to see how it feels.
So, if I put a lead tape under the grip, it will lower - push down my sweet spot?
Probably not by much. It'll just make your racket for head light, which is a good thing.
Not by much, but it does have an effect.
I don't think adding 3 grams at 12 will have that much effect on the sweetspot in the first place. I would venture a guess that adding lead to the hoop will have a greater effect than adding it to the handle or throat, but that is just a guess.
Making a racket more headlight isn't always a good thing.
I was thinking about adding lead tape to my pure drive "Swirly" (2nd gen) to depolarize it. Not entirely sure about what I should do. I bought the babolat lead tape and was thinking of just putting 2 strips at 3 and 9. I'm not entirely sure how to counterbalance and such.
And I forgot to mention I use a wilson overgrip and tourna grip over the babolat grip. And I also have a gamma shockbuster.
Maybe add some rubber bands at 7'' AKA right above the handle as the guide said to counterbalance.
How much weight should I be putting at 7"? I just have the... grip tape band on it.
Well, do you want the same balance as if you didn't put lead tape on? If so, put about 5 rubber bands since you have a lot of weight by the overgrips. (not sure about the exact weight) If you want a balance toward head-heavy or head-light, add or remove some rubber bands, respectively.
Just any rubberband will do? Kinda my first time doing this.
Stupid question... How do you know where exactly 3 and 9 is...?
Find a clock face bring your racquet right infront of it where the 3 and the 9 match up on your racquet is where the 3 and the 9 are on your racquet.
Okay. So I put 3 grams at 3 and 9 making a total of 6 grams. How much should I put at 7"? or handle?
so what is the consensus on making the APDC more solid and stable/plow through/higher SW etc.?
hey guys I think I have my favorite specs at: 368 grams, 33.8 cm, and 356 swingweight
but if I had a prince exo3 ignite would I have to change them to compensate for the racquet being able to swing faster then racquets without ports?
Hi I added a total of 4g at 3&9 to my Youtek Speed MP 16/19 (replacement grip being Head Leather Grip) to increase the twist weights and stability, decreasing vibrations.
But unfortunately there now seems to be a 'pinging' sound and it actually feels like the vibrations are worse than before.
I like the plough through but the racket now feels a lot stiffer, more vibration and like a metal plate.
Any advice or similar experience? (especially those who've added lead to your Speeds)
I just got a new racket, it is a Volkl PB (PlumBum) Mid 10. Where should I add carbon to lower the swingweight?
if you add weight, the SW will only go higher.
It is pretty heavy already 11.34g (per cm3) so I was thinking of adding some carbon. My Russian coach, Galena, says it is a good idea, but will reduce the radiation shielding properties.
wait. i am confused
Sorry, just my warped sense of humour - Pb = Plumbum = lead = galena
What are the pros and cons of short strips of lead opposed to long strips? Right now I have 5 layers of 3.5 inches (1/4 gram) lead at 3 and 9 on each side of both wings of the racquet. I've always wondered the effects of spreading the lead more to maybe 4 layers of 4 inches or 3 layers of 5 inches. What are the drawbacks of long and short strips? Thanks.
Off the top of my head it's sweet-spot location, swing-weight and twist-weight that are at play.
Longer strips that reach up higher raise the swing weight and raise the sweet-spot a little as well. Short strips would concentrate that weight more at 3&9 widening the sweet-spot, giving better twist-weight and would not raise the swing weight as much.
Do any of these basic rules change when modifying a head pro stock frame which is obviously made very light for customising ?
I guess what I'm asking... Is it more acceptable to have lead at 12 as well as 3&9 in such a frame ?
I'm in the process of modifying a tgk 238.5 which had 10g of lead at 12 balanced with silicone in the handle. I've found this set up very spin fgiendly but a lithos unstable. I now have 8g at 12 and 16g at 3&9 which I plan to balance out at the handle ( just waiting for more lead tape to arrive)
Am I heading along the right lines here or making a fundamental error ?
Guys I'd love some advice on this as I'll be completing the mods and stringing the frame in the next 24 hours
I promise to review the frame
Is there any way to add wight and make my racquet heavier without changing the balance most importantly? Is it a good idea to add lead at 3 and nine oclock also so i can have a wider sweet spot? i have a babolat apdc and want to beef it up about half an ounce without changing the balance. Advice is really needed as i have never customized a racquet before with lead tape. Thanks in advance.
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