Discussion in 'Pros' Racquets and Gear' started by FEDERERNADAL13, Aug 7, 2012.
True, it's just the way you swing your racquet.
Since all of Fed's frames are just matched up stock frames with a P1 handle, can't we all claim we have a pro-stock Fed frame?
FN13 mentioned that the racket still felt very different, despite the fact that he used his own string setup.
This infers that the racket's composition is very different.
I'm guessing Wilson makes his frames with much higher quality graphite and maybe actual Basalt Crystals (or maybe not, if the K90 paint job theory is true) that really help its maneuverability.
So in reality, our 90s are very, very different from his 90s.
I think your believing in fairy tales a little too much
It has been said many times that we would all be surprised how close Fed's sticks are to retail aside from the handle.
My guess is that OP has a racquet that didn't make the cut from the many that Wilson screens before they are sent to P1. Now the question is who put the handle on?
The OP's frame might be a Wilson 90 pro stock, but it doesn't mean it's the Fed frame.
Someone already showed some Wilson 90 pro stocks in other thread and they were all different frames.
Right.. It seems that I might be listening to some real leprechauns in this forum.
Yet, no one has actually cut open a pro stock and compared it to a cut open real Fed frame, have we?
So Federer hand picks his own rackets from the pro stocks?
No one has even tested the flex and SW of an actual RF frame. People love to speculate too much on these forums.
Man FEDERERNADAL13 How did you get this?! I always dream of getting a pro stock racquet but I can never figure out how.
Check StringForum. It deals almost exclusively in prostock.
Your guess is reality?
lol what was I smoking
I'm sorry. The last sentence is supposed to be 'my guess is'
It was like 3 am in the morning here.
Did FabFed deal with any of these?
Just took 'Roger' for a hit.. The control with that thing is exceptional, the best backhands I've ever hit. Not very forgiving on ball-striking on serve would be my only complaint. Was hitting it alongside a couple of pt57a's and a 238.4 and the ability to hit balls of completely different spin and shape that land in the same spot was unique to the Wilson.. Hits a surprisingly heavy ball, reconsidering my previous post!
Not saying I don't doubt you, but all of the pro staff line has some sort of metal found in the handle. For example, the 85's have a small metal sheet and the ncode 90's have metal pins. This is done to bring the racquet closer to spec.
Don't advertise selling outside of FS/T if you want to hang out here for long
Naw, that never happens on this board.
There are usually some on the auction site and some of the other tennis forums. Just be extremely careful who you buy from because I have seen quite a few sellers calling a racket pro stock when it is just a consumer racket that is supposedly used by a pro player. Not the actual racket, just that same model of racket.
A true pro stock racket was made for and/or customized for a pro. Generally, not cheap. Most are usually somewhere in the 250 to 500 range depending on condition, what the racket is and to which player it is connected. Some might go for 100/200 if the racket is not a popular model or it is not tied to a well known player. Others can go for 1000+ is they are tied to a very popular top ranked player like Fed, Nadal, Joker, Murray, etc.
I have about 10 pro stock rackets all tied to top 20 (or better) players. They hit really sweet but I can't honestly say they made me a better player than my normal player's rackets.
I've never seen a retail racquet with resin and clear balls of lead in the handle, that must weigh a fair bit? Hairpin must be much lighter than a stock one, even allowing tolerance for Wilson's now famous quality control.
buy a ps85, ncode 90, k90 and look at the handle. They all have some sort of metal. So saying yours is "special" and a pro stock frame because it has metal in the handle isn't saying much.
Yup, all my stock retail racquets you mentioned have metal bars or shanks inside of the handles. I think maybe they are put in there to prevent the handle from collapsing and to help it keep its shape when they mold the handle onto the hairpin? Just my guess.
Ron Rocchi of Wilson, when I asked him last year told me it was to get the racquet up to spec, which makes sense. Also, I have found some babolat frames, like the pure drive lite to have lead tape on the pallet in order to bring the racquet up to spec.
OK, thanks drak! It's just that the way the metal bars are inserted in there makes it look like are supporting the handle during molding as the bars run across the width of the handle and seem to be fixed in place. I've tried moving them so I can add weight in there more easily but they won't budge.
I think saying that the hairpin must be a fair bit lighter than stock if the handle is full of resin and lead balls on one side is not an unreasonable statement? I have also found all manner of different sorts of lead and silicone in and on the handles of my racquets, hadn't seen one like this before, hence I thought I'd mention it?
The thread contains the history of these racquets, I'm just discussing the handle? I haven't bought three tour 90's on the basis that they have lead balls and resin in the handle and therefore assumed that they were Fed stock.
I have to be careful what names I 'drop' or I might find that my supply of pro stocks might well dry up rather quickly.
Can't quite understand the passion of some fellow members in attempting to discredit the origins or authenticity of other people's racquets. I've certainly never done it, I wouldn't want to upset someone who clearly is enjoying their new purchase and wanted to share their excitement with fellow like minded people?
If it helps, I swapped one of my "Feds' with a man from Wilson today who's in charge of sponsored players and hence knows a fair bit about SMU racquets. Told him the story, showed it to him and he was convinced. He explained to me the process, apparently it was shown recently on the tennis channel also, did anyone catch that, I didnt?
Good enough for me anyway, they play great and that's all I'm interested in personally, the search for the ultimate racquet for me to play with! And I need as much help from the racquet as I can get, as I'm sure many of my fellow racquets lovers here do too!
This is Wilson Quality Check I'm guessing?
Some people here has not stood up very well to a scrutinizing. In a public forum you have too expect a bit of (sound?) skepticism.
Thanks Fearsome Forehand!
I just wish they'd get rid of the number of posts thing to allow pictures to be put up, it would make this whole process a lot easier?
On the topic of the title of this thread, what is the ultimate pro stock? I guess it is personal and relative but the only ones I haven't owned or hit with that I'm aware of and interested in are the pt57a in open pattern, the h19 and perhaps the one that I may shortly have, the h19 in open pattern?
Has anyone out there hit these and if so, how did it go? I really thought that the Dimitrov 93 was going to be the answer to all of my dreams but was so head heavy it was unfortunately not practical to play matches with for me, lovely to hit with though.
I'm concerned that the open pattern thing may not translate as well to some of these great tight pattern frames. The 238.5 for instance for me was a great disappointment, the open pattern h22 certainly wasn't what I was looking for either.
It seems that when these guys do make a custom racquet, sometimes they can flex or balance is somewhat strange ways that may suit particular pros whose ball-striking is obviously spectacular, but not mere mortals like me? Dimitrov's specs, grips size 6 and massive swing weight, are clearly not for many? My theory on that was that in making the bigger head (93) the hairpin then became very head heavy even without lead, perhaps like the 269.1 (Youtek Radical Pro) used by a few on tour?
I'm considering putting some lead in the buttcap of my 93 to try it more Headlight. It will be a little heavier, but (hopefully) less tiring to use .
BTW, I think you are at 50 posts now, so you should be able to post pics right?
Big John, please understand I'm not doubting what you are saying about the frame you have being a legit pro stock. I'm simply pointing out that all the STOCK pro staffs come with some sort of metal in the pallet. Therefore, just because yours has lead balls or whatever other metal does not make them pro stock.
I've actually held Federer's actual frames, and could tell you they seem the same as stock, other than the balance being a tad bit more head heavy because of the lead placed underneath the bumper guard.
No problem Drak, I've read many of your posts and understand that my knowledge of these matters isn't great in comparison to yours. I particularly respect your experience and that of the many others on this board like VSB that truly love racquets.
My 'Feds' are incredibly similar to stock, the differences are very slight. The length of the handle, the paint, the bumper strip and most obviously, the weight and small difference in flex from the retail. I was a little disappointed to be honest when I got them that the differences were so small.
I'm not sure I could use the racquets with the lead in head that Federer has. Mine are more head light as it has the weight in the handle that the ones he plays with do but no lead on the head.
I've seen the same P1 pics as everyone else and believe that with the same amount of lead that Fed puts on his, the specs on mine would be very similar as the ones that Fabfed has weighed and balanced?
Call me soft but I find the retail factor tour 90 just a smidge too heavy for 3 setters, this 'Fed' one is more head light without the lead and much easier to use.
The only problem I have with it is that it is often windy where I play and using a racquet with a head that size with footwork very far from the Fed's is a little problematic.
I feel very lucky to have been able to experience hitting something very close to what the Fed plays with, differences being the custom handle, custom P1 grip and the lead he puts on the top from what I can see?
On the Grigor Federernadal13, I put back the silicone that had been taken out of the handle in the I think 6 frames that I had and put little lead stacks in there as well on some, lead on the handle on some others. The balance does improve but you end up with say a 370 gram racquet with balance just under 34, that is an absolute beast! My elbow's already got one torn tendon in it, I couldn't risk making it worse! I used it in a pennants match and started like a house on fire. It ended with me trying ridiculously obvious drop shots on short balls as trying to pick up the racquet was killing my elbow.
Big John, thanks for the post.
Could you send me photos of the Pro Staff 93 Dimitrov frame you have? I strung his frames at the Cincy Master this year, and would like to make a comparison. Thanks!
True... I'm probably only going to add a little bit of lead, since the racket is so heavy as is. I used to play with a 13 oz racket though, it was just super head-light and thus usable (K90 with classic wilson quality control)
You've got mail Drak. Cheers, John
Some comparison pics with a retail 2012 Tour90 and the 93.. the head size is larger and the grommets take up all of the grommet channel. The difference in head size seems to be more evident in the throat area rather than overall width (I havent actually measured them). The 93 i got through BigJohn..
Nice work Tony..
Just a note of interest regarding the new 90. I took one of mine to the shop to scan with our portable CMM machine. It showed the area of the hoop to be a shade over 88 square inches.
i love how Ron himself actually came in here to tell everyone it was not a Fed stick, and this is still going on... lol
The guy who had a secret source earlier in the thread tabled evidence which effectively amounted to "my guy said that the guy he spoke to at Wilson confirmed they are legit" (post).
From my experience with Wilson staff - even relatively senior staff - they know far, far less about frames than people who've posted here. I've even had in my hands a supposed actual Federer match frame from the Australian Open last year which was being shown to a shop by the regional sales manager as a bit of a "wow" product.... it took me all of 30 seconds to work out otherwise, much to his dismay (despite having what looked like the correct strings/grip it had no lead under the bumper and no string-savers - pretty obvious omissions if you pay much attention).
Big John, thanks for your email. I'll email you back tonight.
Aimr, thanks for photos. The channel photo is what I was looking for as that is exactly what I saw when stringing his frame. They are identical to the photos I took.
There is a fundamental problem with pro stock racquets. They are made for tour players use. Thus if you are going to get your hands on one, someone has either sold something that they shouldn't have sold that they play with, played with or tested or someone that works for one of the companies that make them has 'sourced it.' I am fairly sure that the companies that manufactured the racquets for the players would not be too happy that they are bring sold/given away as they would prefer that the general public thought the players were using the actual racquet on the shelves that the racquet's paint job suggested. The person that works for the company that 'sourced it' would be in even more trouble I suspect.
It is very difficult to justify to the many people it appears who specialise in attempting to discredit the legitimacy of said racquets, without drawing unwanted attention to the source of said racquets and hence risking losing our supply.
I say supply because I buy and source a lot of pro stock racquets, I find it very interesting and get a lot of enjoyment from them.
I made reference to the tennis channel article that apparently (as I've said, I didn't see it personally) shows the racquets being shipped with handles on to P1. This may well be incorrect, that's why I asked if anyone else saw it.
To spell out the bleeding obvious, there is clearly someone out there in a place the makes these sticks or at least handles them on the way through that is letting a couple out, regardless of whether they are Fed's or not. They may have put the handles on them themselves, who knows. Either way, they probably shouldn't be doing it but as I wish to continue buying these things, I don't want them to stop!
Our friend Drak above (who knows a thing or two from what I can see) has confirmed that the Grigors are legit. There was a fair bit of debate about this too. I have bought numerous of very hard to get pro stocks from the same man. Does it then make sense that the same fella would sell us fake Feds?
Even it it wasn't Fed's, can you tell me who's it is? From what I can read, you pretty much need to be top 100 or higher to get racquets from the pro room at Wilson. Who else uses this stick in the top 100 or even close to the top 100 that it could be made for? Don't think anyone else uses the tour 90 but may be wrong on that? I'm not being aggressive about this, just want to learn more as I'm sure do many of my fellow readers/posters.
I buy racquets to play with and enjoy, not brag about. For me it about the search for that elusive ultimate stick and it is fun to play with something that is pretty much identical to what someone playing on tour is using, thus you can appreciate just how good these pro's are.
I find the pros to be a great source of ideas. Looking at Gilles Simon's setup for instance gave me the idea of a pt57a XL. The pt57a in standard length for me feels wonderful but isn't going to hit a massive ball without a fairly heavy swing weight. The extra length completely changed it whilst keeping that lovely buttery soft flex as you hit it. Wouldn't have thought of it had I not been reading the forums about Simon?
I hit again with 'Fed' last night and jeez it hits well, much better than any of the St Vincents or many other tour 90's I have owned. I don't get tired using it unlike most other 90's and 85's I've got, which I attribute this to the more head light balance and the amount of weight in the handle rather than in the overall racquet that makes the racquet far easier to move than the retails and has the lovely flex that pro stocks have with all of that weight in the butt.
Hits a very consistent, steady ball. I fixed my serving problems but comparing it side by side to a pt57a XL and an open pattern h22, it just doesn't play a 'big' enough game relatively for me to use it as my main racquet. A good one to have in the bag if you were having control issues on a given day, or perhaps on a very fast court. I was hitting on very damp clay in very heavy conditions, looking forward to hitting on hard on a sunnier day..
What the very knowledgable Ron said, and he clearly uses his words carefully, another trait of an intelligent man was -
"I'm pretty certain that racquet didn't come through our office. For one thing, we use P1 leather grips for his racquets now. Haven't used Wilson leather grips since late 2009 or early 2010. Not because there is any advantage using the P1 grip over the Wilson other than the fact we have a lot more around, so its easier to find 12 at a time that are the exact same thickness.
Again, the racquet you have could be exactly the same as Roger's, but it hasn't been customized with Roger's handle or his specs."
No one on this thread has claimed that the racquet was Feds from P1. What is claimed is that the racquet is from Fed's stock from Wilson. I completely concur with Ron's comments and he would know, particularly that nasty made in China sticker!
I'm happy to pay a fair bit more than retail for a racquet like Feds to have a hit with, not going to pay ten grand for one that's he's actually used himself. I'd be handling one of those with kid gloves, after a very careful hit perhaps..
I until recently had one of Sachin Tendulkar's match bats, signed by Sachin. It had a brief hit with it, paranoid I'd break it and then just waived it about in the office. An Indian Doctor friend of mine recently pretty much saved my Dad's life so I gave it to him, he's a huge Sachin fan (for those that don't play cricket, probably the cricket equivalent of the Fed). He now plays veterans cricket with it! Each to his own..
^^^ You from England?
No, I live in Perth in Australia.
I can't understand how anyone could like the new paintjob.
I agree with you about the shiny red paint on the top of the racquet, looks a bit cheap and seems to damage easily? I have some pro stock blx 2 6 1 95's that are in a flat finish, more like the bottom part of the retail, and they look great to me?
Looking forward to seeing pictures of the Roger.
Thats how I feel when I play with my K90.
That was the most interesting thing for me, to see how little difference there really is between his actual stick and the retail. Flex almost identical and you had to look very carefully to see differences in the racquet itself. The main difference, I guess like many pro stock racquets, is the amount of weight inside the handle as opposed to being in the frame material itself?
Possible that they could use a lighter pallet material. Whereas in the K (and others) it is heavier from the start, so the K is actually very close to Federer specs, if you add Federers string setup, stringalings, powerpads and a few grams at 12.
Looks like "Fed plays the K90" still has some merit..?
Separate names with a comma.