The pro stock to end all pro stocks: The Fed racket

Discussion in 'Pros' Racquets and Gear' started by FEDERERNADAL13, Aug 7, 2012.

  1. Big John

    Big John Rookie

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    I didn't want to rain on your parade Povl and that of other retail Tour 90 players, but if you want the truth then here goes. It doesn't make me happy to dampen the enthusiasm of others but many of us here are more about a search for the truth than living in a pleasant but naive dream world?

    The Federer Stock racquet that I have is very similar in a lot of ways to many of the other pro stock racquets that I own in that it is an almost identical mold to the retail version. The Federer racquet LOOKS almost identical to the BLX and the KFactor racquets. The difference lies in what it is made out of, the layup if you will. The retail Tour 90's (KFactor, BLX etc) are made out of heavier material and have their weight more evenly distributed throughout the frame. The Federer racquet starts out much lighter overall and then has a lot of weight put into the handle (a lot, not a little) and then has varying amounts of lead put on the end of the racquet at 12 to match up the racquets to the same specs as there are it appears substantial variations in the weight of even his racquets stock from Wilson.

    I can tell you from experience that a racquet with weight in the handle and lead on the end plays very differently from a racquet that has the weight evenly distributed through it. The overall balance in cm's might end up the same, but the way it feels to swing and more importantly, how it flexes and feels when you hit with it are different. Now the good news is, the Federer racquet and the retail are very alike in terms of mold, more so than most others except a couple like the Pure Drive Roddick Plus to Roddick's (save the cortex and maybe being a smidgeon softer) and Rafa's Aeropro to Rafa's actual stick.

    As many learned TW members would be able to tell you, many pro's use racquets that are completely different under the paint, that bear almost no resemblance at all to the retail version of their paint job. For instance, Robin Soderling's racquet, Richard Gasquet's racquet. The Fed's racquet, on the other hand, weighs about the same as the retail and flexes very similarly, just has the weight distributed a little differently.

    Hope that answers your question. I think the retail Tour 90's are tremendous racquets for the highly skilled player. My issue with them is that they are a bit tough to use when it is windy and that they don't allow you to play 'bigger' like some more 'tweener' style racquets that can be tamed a little by using poly. In terms of being able to place and enjoy stroking a tennis ball around a court, my Fed sticks are up there with my pt57a's for feel but give me more spin more easily. The best racquets for hitting single handers (and I need the help!) that I've found so far.

    All of the pro stocks I've bought (and there have been a lot of them) have led me to conclude that the main difference between most pro stocks and the retail is the quality of the materials used and the process involved in their construction and that they tend to come out lighter so that pros can have them customised to their preferred specs. Some are closer to the retail than others, some are completely different and can't be replicated with a retail stick (Gasquet's current super light setup can't be achieved with a retail Instinct Tour XL for instance, just too heavy stock). Fed's retail equivalent is very similar to what he uses and your average person who isn't as obsessed as I am would be well satisfied. As a racquet victim, I'm not but I may well never be. :)
     
  2. SwankPeRFection

    SwankPeRFection Hall of Fame

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    Until one of you cuts open one of your super special pro stocks and a retail to compare next to each other, you're all just as full of yourselves as the people on here that don't agree with you. NOTHING you "say" can be taken as any more prevalent truth than anything else that others say.

    Look at it logically. NOTHING you are saying is based purely on physical evidence. You're all saying stuff based on "what it feels like", which is subjective to everyone. You want people to take what you say for real? Cut your isht open and prove it!
     
  3. Big John

    Big John Rookie

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    Most of what I'm saying is based on physical evidence?? How can a racquet with a fair amount of lead and resin/silicone in the handle and lead on the head that is lighter overall than the retail be the same racquet? It must be made of lighter material, or is that a little too logical for you?

    How it feels and which is a better racquet for an individual player is up to the individual. Pro stock racquets just provide more options for customising as they come lighter stock. As I tried to say in my post above, it could be for many people that the retail tour 90 is a better fit/preferred choice over the Fed stock. I hope it is as for most people, it is the only choice as there aren't many of these around!

    Maybe a retail Asian Tour 90 might in fact be closer to an actual Federer racquet if customised properly?

    I'm not telling people what to use and what they should like, that's completely up to them. If you are such a pro stock non-believer, what are you doing reading this forum?

    Why would I want to cut one of my racquets open, to please you? Won't be doing that in a hurry! :)

    I'm not an engineer, I'm a pretty average tennis player looking for the best racquet for me to play tennis with. What is your goal in all of this? How many actual tour players racquets have you owned or hit with? While we're at it, how many racquets have you cut open? I haven't cut open any!
     
  4. skraggle

    skraggle Professional

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    What a combative and selfish post. I'm embarrassed for you.
     
  5. onehandbh

    onehandbh Hall of Fame

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    Just because it is lighter does not mean that the actual materials being
    used are of a different composition. They can add higher density materials
    to change the weight and balance. (e.g. lead, metals, silicon)

    The actual racquet's composition (e.g. graphite, blx) could still be identical
    to the retail version. I'm not saying it is. Just that your conclusion is
    not necessarily true.
     
  6. Big John

    Big John Rookie

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    Thats a very good point. I was going to put something in that sentence along those lines but felt like I had probably fed enough strawberries to that particular donkey and didn't want to confuse the issue further, I've rambled enough! :)

    I don't know much about how racquets are actually made in terms of how many layers, what percentage of graphite etc. I'm not an engineer, if the discussion starts going there I can't really contribute much.

    I think the point I was trying to make is that if it is lighter it must be made differently in some way, don't know enough to say how and that this is a pretty common theme across almost all of the pro stock racquets I have encountered?

    I'm more interested in how they play and trying to modify other racquets I have to have similar characteristics for my racquets and for players that I know. For example, I'm trying to get my Blade BLX pro stock XL in open pattern that comes out at 330 grams strung balance 34 with no lead or silicone and a synthetic grip that I can't volley to save myself with, to volley better. I've concluded about 12 grams of silicon in the handle, a leather grip and about 6 grams between 8.30 and 10.30 should make it work better for me, I'll do it tonight and see how it goes.. :)
     
  7. Big John

    Big John Rookie

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    Thanks for your help Skraggle, I thought we were past this whole pro stocks aren't any better/don't exist argument. It is completely up to the individual what racquet works best for them, I don't think anyone here is trying to tell anyone else what to do, just exchanging opinions on what works for them and appears to work very well for players and their racquets. If it was all about the racquet, we'd all be on tour with them and I'm certainly very far away from that.. :)
     
  8. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    Very true. It could just be the pallets for all we know. Bedsides the lead on top of Federers racket is a very few grams for matching purposes for all we know.
     
  9. Big John

    Big John Rookie

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    The lead on the head is for more than matching purposes I think, it is part of the 'polarised' weighting that his racquets have, ie - weight at the 'poles' of the racquet, in the handle and on the top of the head. Many pro's use this setup, it causes a racquet to feel quite different from the standard retail racquets that have more weight in the throat etc. It allows your rally ball to have a lot more shape and makes the top of the string bed more solid. It isn't just the pallets, they don't weigh very much at all. We're not talking about a few grams here.

    They vary the amount of lead on the head for matching purposes, that is very true. But adding that amount of lead on the head changes the way a racquet plays quite significantly, it will hit a much 'heavier' ball but will be harder to swing ie - increase its swing weight.
     
  10. Rusty669

    Rusty669 Semi-Pro

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    The lead underneath the bumper on Fed's racket is on the one hand for matching purposes but also for the polarized set-up.
    If you take a look at the photo on the P1 website, you will see different amounts of lead on each racket. This means different amounts of lead are used on each racket in order to make them identical in weight and balance.
    On the other hand, Fed has stated in interviews that he does change the balance of his rackets for the clay season for example, where he has them a little more head heavy.
     
  11. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    I know about polarized and unpolarized, swingweight, etc, but I will have to disagree with what you think. I am still with Nate Ferguson and others on this one.
     
  12. ATP100

    ATP100 Professional

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    Closer to the truth than you realize.
     
  13. Big John

    Big John Rookie

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    I'd say if I was trying to play with something as close to what Fed uses, I'd be trying to get hold of some Asian Tour 90's and putting some lead and silicone or resin the handle and some lead on the head and you'd be so close as for most not be able to tell the difference.

    You'd have to have an engineer cut them open to tell them apart I'd suggest to have a look at how they are constructed to tell them apart. If I was a tour 90 player, that's what I'd do for sure.

    I've tried with four different new pro staff 95's to 'replicate' a Fed stick setup that would be easier to hit with the bigger head. Epic fail, it is just too soft, too mushy. Has lost the crisp feeling of the tour 90. Hope they re-do this one with a stiffer layup.. :)
     
  14. SwankPeRFection

    SwankPeRFection Hall of Fame

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    Drill out the stock foam resin in the handle and replace it with silicon. The weight of the 90 will turn out the same as the stock frame, but be much more head light than stock. It actually plays like crap, personally speaking of course. Add some weight at the top and the balance comes back, along with added playability.

    Now, I'm not saying this is what you have or have seen, but I had a BLX90 like this and so have others. I guess what I'm saying is that when you're dealing with grams, it's very easy to swap out equal or almost equal amounts by changing out things within the frame and you don't always need to start with some kind of magic mold that's made of lighter material or is constructed differently.
     
  15. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    The mushy, soft feel could come from the fact that the 95 is a lighter, thinner layup than the 90 from the beginning.
     
  16. ART ART

    ART ART Semi-Pro

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    What specs did you try to achive?
    ...
    weight, balance and SW ?
     
  17. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    Hey Big John, if you're serious about replicating the Federer feel then do this:

    - buy a Wilson Prostaff 85
    - paint it white/gold/red
    - string it like Federer

    According to many people who I trust much more than you on the topic Federer's frames have always been more like personalised iterations on the PS85. The retail "Federer" frames technically already are just that apparently but the money is odds-on that his frames are made in a more PS85-ish manner.

    Retail frames, by contrast, are made as cheaply as humanly possible and have massive quality variances which extend to balance, weight and flex.

    Until someone cuts one of his actual frames open the discussion about polarisation/silicone in the handle is irrelevant when trying to make comparisons or mimic his feel using a retail frame. Why? Because, as others have said many times before you joined the lengthy discussions on the board, the composition of Federer's is likely to be different. Different materials, different quality level and certainly made with a discerning subject in mind, not 99% of players who wont even notice the difference.

    In addition to all this, as someone who's used a PS85 for decades and tested various 90s and 95s... if you're coming from it from the point of view that a 95 will be is easier to play with than a 90 then you may as well not even be trying to mimic the Federer feel - you've moved too far from the tree as it is already. If you want his feel in a different frame you best bet according to most is to find some K6.1 Tours and be done with it. If you want or need more power or forgiveness then it's clear you don't want the characteristics of Federer's frame.

    (OR just accept you're really just dying to use Pete's stick and buy some PS85s)
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2012
  18. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    I did this to a Taiwanese 85 and dipped it in Basalt soup, strung it with CC at 44 and I played eerily similar to Fed. I then called Ron and told him I found the truth and he just smiled and hung up on me knowing that I am the 4.5 GOAT epic USTA GOD of public tennis courts.
     
  19. Big John

    Big John Rookie

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    Bobby Jr, I am not a Federer wannabe in the slightest. Or a pro staff diehard either. You clearly don't read people's posts very carefully and prefer to take the bits out of them that suit your point of view. I have stated on these forums a number of times that the whole point of this for me is try and find my ultimate racquet to play with. Period. Not trying to 'be like Mike' or Fed or Pete in this case.

    I'm not dying to use anyone's stick, I want to find the racquet that I play best with.

    If you are going to make this your latest 'accomplishment' by 'destroying' another would be Fed stick, please at least pay us the respect of reading the entire thread carefully and deal with the issues raised in the thread. The racquets I own came from the pro room in Chicago. These isn't another pro in the world that uses the tour 90 that I am aware of, would like to know of any as I've asked previously? The pro room only makes racquets for the top 100. If it isn't Fed's stick then, whose is it, or are you trying to say that isn't where it came from?

    I have some St Vincent 85's. Bumpered and bumperless. I have hit with Edberg and Sampras' actual frames and I think every version of Tour 90. Also Dimitrov's 93. No need to buy any. If you have someone who has obviously some experience that perhaps you don't have, why not ask them questions and try and learn from them, I'd love to learn from you? If you attack people, they're really not going to want to help you that much are they?

    I'm not trying to replicate Federer's racquet to be like Federer. I have hit his Tour 90 stock stick set up as I have explained and liked it, hence was trying to do probably what Wilson were trying to do when they made the 93 for him to try, make a slightly bigger headed version that felt and played similarly.

    I'm 6'6". If anything like a lot of other tall players, I'm after control, a big first serve, a kicker that really bounces, some control on my volleys and a heavy ball off the ground. I tend to agree with many of the other posters here, that Tour 90 and 85's are probably more suited to 'older style' tennis where you had a bit more time to move your feet and get into the net to volley. They are wonderful frames, but there is a reason that the Fed is pretty much the only guy on tour that uses them. For your average human, they don't make the game easy.

    Its a bit like the move away from blades at golf, there is no feeling in the world like a well struck blade but how many times is your average human going to flush it? It appears to be a better percentage choice on average to go with something that is easier to hit that allows you to play more within yourself.

    I absolutely respect the guys that play this stick, it is far from easy and their ball striking must be superb. I love playing and hitting with them too, you have to beat the other guy with skill, you're not getting a hell of a lot of help from the stick. It isn't going to make it easier for me to beat a junior on a hot day in my opinion, hence I'm using 27.5 open pattern flexy sticks that hit a heavier ball, serves bigger, hit better kickers and give my poor footwork and technique some form of chance. If I can serve big and rip my forehand and make some volleys, I'm half a chance on a good day. If I use a tour 90, my serve isn't as big and I'll have to defend more, sounds like a looming loss to me as a tall person.

    These are only my views, feel free to disagree. I repeat that I am not an engineer, I have not made any frames personally. I don't believe that many members here are either! :)

    You seem to be particularly interested in Federer's racquets. Have you ever owned or seen one yourself? Or do you just read about it on the internet? I must obviously have some pretty good contacts at Wilson as I seem to have a fair few pro stocks from them if you read my other threads?

    I think what I'll do, to satisfy my own curiosity, certainly not to please you, is take one to the Aussie Open and show it to the P1 guys there, I'm pretty sure I know the people I need to get that done. If by any chance, I happen to be correct, I want an apology from you on this board. If I'm wrong, I will stand happily corrected, I would like to know the answer to this too.

    If you've got some helpful logic to add to this discussion, please come forward with it. If not, please keep your judgements as to other's motivations and reasons for doing things to yourself and maybe go and hit with those hopefully St Vincent 85's of yours.. :)
     
  20. Big John

    Big John Rookie

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    Swankperfection, what is with this fixation for chopping up and drilling out frames? :)

    Art Art, I and a mate of mine have tried just about everything to get that damned 95 and the 100 also to work - gut mains, softer strung poly, all sorts of weight and balances with silicone and lead etc. It just had a sort of hollow, not solid feeling, not that nicely solid feeling but muted stiffness of the 90, just doesn't feel crisp at all. :(

    My Blade Blx pro stock XL in open pattern has a nice feel to it, crisp but nicely flexy. The 95 just feels hollow and kind of muddy to me, I've given up. The 93 was light years ahead of it but with the massive swing weight, really did feel like a bigger tour 90. If it had been lighter.. Trying to get my paws on some that are btw, will let you all know if I do.

    For the umpteenth time, I know nothing about layups AT ALL. I am not an engineer. I can sit here and postulate about why certain racquets play the way they do but I really have no idea and I suspect not many others do either. All I can do is discuss how they do play and what potential changes we can make with lead, silicone and string to make them play better.

    Maybe there need to be a racquet manufacturing/engineering section. I'm interested in pro stock (actual players) racquets, how they set them up and what we can learn from this to use on our own sticks to help our tennis? :)
     
  21. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    I read all of the posts in this thread.

    The posts by people who have supposed Federer frames can be summed up such: they want everyone to believe them.

    I don't know nor am bothered either way if you have a pro room frame or if you think your 'logic' on why it is likely to be a Federer frame is definitive (it's not - not even close, discussed in previous posts). What interests me most are the ongoing posts discussing how one might replicate Federer's frame characteristics - when you are really here just trying to find a frame that suits you. Really, what do they have to do with each other?

    The details people usually post about customising their frames sounds less like an interest in the particulars/nuances of Federer's set-up and far more like a back-door justification for their often insane attempts to mimic his frame characteristics. Attempts which, in the past, have sometimes resorted to plain fabrications of details or seriously poor conclusion forming based on faulty logic, poor information or plain myopia.

    The vast majority of these poster come across far more like: "yippee, I have mastered the Federer feel" than having worked out anything particularly salient or interesting.

    I've met approximately a dozen people here or in person claiming to have a Federer pro-stock frame direct from Wilson (I mean a frame which never made it into his playing stock, not used frames bought at charity auctions etc). None have ever been able to justify their claims with anything I'd consider overly reliable. The whole "no-one else on tour uses a 90sq in head" sort of logic is not really indicative of anything in relation to the pro room frames, let alone that since Federer is the only pro using 90s (he isn't by the way - as discussed earlier in an earlier post) it therefore must have been made for him.

    It's fine for me to accept that you have a frame made for Federer which is outside of the stock they send for him to actually use. Short of dissecting/x-raying it almost everything said about the internal composition is just guesswork, not logic.
     
  22. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    This was my answer to someone who critized my interest in Federers racket/specs. Whether or not this racket would be my wisest choice if I was serious tournament player I dont know. But it is currently my favourite racket to play with along with my PS Classic. Because it is juicy, solid, spinny and controlled.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2012
  23. corners

    corners Legend

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    Yep, the k90 is a fine, fine racquet, no matter who it was made for or not made for.
     
  24. Big John

    Big John Rookie

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    I completely agree, the k90 and in fact, pretty much all of the tour 90's in my opinion are great racquets. Not super easy to play with but if I'm ever playing against weaker players, I often use it as playing with it is really fun. I pull out my St Vincents sometimes as well under similar circumstances.

    Against guys that rip it, I find myself late and particularly later in the match, find myself tiring as it is, particularly in the retail stock form, a little demanding for me. That's why I'm particularly enjoying this pro stock one, more head light than the retail kfactor and nowhere near as demanding. If I leaded it up like Fed's, different story I'd imagine. If I was a true Fed wannabe, I'd have done it. I also tried his string setup and struggled for control after the first hit, I prefer these racquets strung at early 50's in full poly, really great spin for putting away short balls, love how easy it is to move the small head.

    My main observation out of all of this is that I think more Fed and Tour 90 lovers out there should get hold of Asian Tour 90's, put silicone in the handles and enjoy!
     
  25. Big John

    Big John Rookie

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    At the risk of repeating myself, I hit with the pro stock Fed stick and liked it! For reasons that we've discussed, I prefer playing matches with bigger headed sticks. Hence, now looking for a spec that is similar to it with a bigger head to play with. Is that hard to understand, sounds pretty simple to me?

    Just got a tight pattern pro stock blade XL today, we'll see how that goes.

    What pro stocks do you have Bobby Jr? Please tell me about your experience of pro's sticks from what you've owned and hit and why you're so interested in it? I think I've explained my reasons for being interested, what are yours?
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2012
  26. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    I have a couple of Sampras PS85s "pro stock" frames and about 4 or 5 Edberg and Courier "pro stock" fames.

    My Sampras pro stock frames even have blue Tourna-Grip on them... I definitely play better than when I have used another colour grip. :p
     
  27. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    I have a Pro stock Eric Clapton Blackie and I can play 'Wonderful Tonight' on it but that's it. I tried to play Who songs with it but it doesn't work for Townsend material. Pro stock guitars are a fail. Waste of money and a killer of dreams.

    :(
     
  28. Big John

    Big John Rookie

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    Well there you go, that was really helpful, thanks.

    I'm all Fedded out, I'll let you know what happens when I go to the Aussie Open. :)
     
  29. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    I am afraid one might experience that they are too soft and mushy.
     
  30. corners

    corners Legend

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    Nope. Flex and feel seem to be the same. Actually the asians I've found to be a bit crisper, probably because the vibration frequency is higher due to the lower weight. But in all respects the asian k90 appears to be identical to the us version at a lower weight and swingweight.
     
  31. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Actually, I find the Asian K90 to be a tad flexier than the US version. I'm talking about a very minute difference. It might be because of less graphite used in the layup to make it lighter.
     
  32. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    You are right. I've used one an it was more boaty than the non-Asian K90.

    It is noticeable so maybe not all that minute. That said, given Wilson's infamous quality control, it could be I just lucked a more flexible one and a stiffer normal frame.
     
  33. UCSF2012

    UCSF2012 Hall of Fame

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    Alright, someone send me Fed's racket, and I'll run it thru the x-ray machine. We'll see what the distribution of weight really is. :wink:
     
  34. Rusty669

    Rusty669 Semi-Pro

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    I don't think so Break Point. I have been wondering about the differences in the two rackets, and in order to find out I sent my one and only k six one tour to a professional tuning company here. They have in the past put an identical custom grip on all my AK90s and matched them weight-wise. I asked them to take off the handle of the US K90 and put the custom grip on,but also to take any extra weights out that are under the pallet.
    Long story short, they matched the US K90 to my AK90s and they play pretty much the same. The only difference in the two is the added weight in the grip area and the more head light balance of the US K90.
     
  35. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    From doing a search, it seems that it is possible that the difference is only in the pallet/grip weight.
     
  36. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Well, I've played with about 10 different AK90's and at least a half dozen US K90's and I have noticed that the AK90's feel slightly flexier - i.e., I can feel the flex in the AK90 more than I can in the US K90. I think the lighter weight (less graphite used) is the reason for that.

    BTW, there are factory installed weights inside the handles of all of my AK90's (you can see them as metal rods inside the handles). I can also feel the extra weight in the hoop and throat of the US K90's when I play with them so I am positive that the difference is not just the weight in the handles between the two. And stock-to-stock, I also don't notice that the AK90 is any less headlight than the US K90. I know that the official specs state otherwise, but I think those specs are wrong and that the AK90 is just as headlight as the US K90.

    Also, I've tried to make some of my AK90's into US K90's by adding weight inside the handles of the AK90's to match the static weight of the US K90, but they still don't play the same. I can still feel that there's more weight in the hoop and throat of the stock US K90 than there is in the modified AK90's with weight added inside the handles.
     
  37. athanlau

    athanlau New User

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    Quick question:

    You see how there are 3 leather thingy at the bottom of the 3 strings (6 oclock direction)

    What is the purpose?
     
  38. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    10,582
    Who make Power Pad?
     
  39. DownTheLineWith90

    DownTheLineWith90 Rookie

    Joined:
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    I think P1 just cuts strips of leather and places them when they string Fed's sticks up.
     
  40. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
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    Where Power Pad?
     
  41. frinton

    frinton Semi-Pro

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    Hi FN13 - Reviving this old thread, as I am looking for an answer. All of you who have pro stock frames / Federer frames - did you have any of them the with typical Wilson hologram stickers and/or Grip size stickers? (Would be especially interested in knowing that from Ron Yu - would they be removed like the "made in china" stickers? and also, did the Federer 90s have special or retail but caps.
    Is there anybody who has pro stock stick from Wilson with 2014 pj? I am interested in but caps and any noticeable differences to retail pj.
    Thanks a lot in advance for helping me out.
     
  42. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

    Joined:
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    5,755
    The retail 90'es in the later years has an annoying (to me anyway) butt cap with a clip to hold the leather grip, which makes them asymetrical. My guess is that P1 has put older date regular caps on the rackets after making the custom pallets/grip. The whole idea of this procedure could very well be to copy the shape and feel of a favourite Federer grip from perhaps back to the PS 85 days.
     
  43. corners

    corners Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2008
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    5,441
    All through the K90 years P1 put the Hyper generation buttcaps (red W on black field) on Fed's racquets. These Hyper buttcaps have the same clip as the newer buttcaps. As far as I can tell the buttcaps on the Tour 90s have been essentially the same from the Hyper generation to present.
     
  44. sixone90

    sixone90 Professional

    Joined:
    May 7, 2008
    Messages:
    1,250
    Yeah, but the butt caps that P1 put on don't have a trapdoor
     
  45. ART ART

    ART ART Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2004
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    644
    What about the SwingWeight ?? ...

    Did anyone get that value ??
     
  46. SpinToWin

    SpinToWin G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
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    354 if I remember correctly. I think Fabfed (not sure of the username) had posted his findings.
     
  47. corners

    corners Legend

    Joined:
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    Despite many, many requests, Fabfed never came through with the swingweight. Makes me wonder a little if his frames really were tournament sticks.

    But another poster did give us a value of about 354, although his methods were not the most precise. I think he said give it a plus or minus 5.
     
  48. corners

    corners Legend

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    AH, I did not know that.
     
  49. The ball was in

    The ball was in Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2006
    Messages:
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    Hi Frinton, see the below images of the ones I have (FabFed has a much more extensive collection :) but i am happy with the ones i was able to source!) If you want anymore pics then let me know. But looking at them, the grip size sticker is not there along with the Wilson hologram...maybe they are fakes :)
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  50. The ball was in

    The ball was in Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2006
    Messages:
    419
    and a couple more.....

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Taken from this frame:
    [​IMG]

    Let me know if you want anymore.

    Enjoy!
     

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