THE REASON WHY Nadal SOMETIMES GETS A BAD RAP ... THO HE'S WON FRENCH, WIMBY, AUST,??

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by TheOneAndOnly, Feb 20, 2009.

  1. TheOneAndOnly

    TheOneAndOnly New User

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    I've been thinking.

    the reason why Nadal is not dubbed or marked yet as a serious #1 player in the minds of many is because of his style of game.

    As he sits on the #1 throne a little bit longer, it may sink in the naysayers minds.

    But his style of game is so Muster-esque (tomas muster), where he tries so hard and seems to grunt for every point, that there hasn't been a smooth sort of easy going playing where he can tell the crowd that he is head and shoulders above the rest.

    no?
     
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  2. Zaragoza

    Zaragoza Banned

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    Those who don't see Nadal as a serious or true no.1 don't know too much about tennis. There are different styles that can make someone the no.1 in the world and it has always been like this, some narrow minded people just think that you have to play a certain style to be a true no.1 or an all-time great contender.
    In order to become the no.1 you have to be exceptional at something and very good in every aspect of the game and Nadal is.
    Nadal has won 3 of the last 4 majors and he has been very consistent in the other tournaments. You can't do much better than that.
     
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  3. Okazaki Fragment

    Okazaki Fragment Semi-Pro

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    He's achieved much more than Muster. Nadal is more like Lendl. Nobody liked Lendl either.
     
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  4. S H O W S T O P P E R !

    S H O W S T O P P E R ! Hall of Fame

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    People are still clinging onto the sinking ship known as Roger Federer.
     
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  5. oneguy21

    oneguy21 Banned

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    Oh c'mon...there are probably 20 other threads on this subject.

    The fact is Nadal is number 1 right now; if he's not he'll eventually lose it. It's as simple as that.
     
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  6. GameSampras

    GameSampras Banned

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    Nadal is the legit best player in the world right now. You cant argue against that. Hes won the 3 of the last 4 slams. I think as the next few years unravel he will have a more difficult time keeping that number 1 spot and winning the slams as Roger did 04-07. It came so easy to Roger. While Nadal has to work for what he has. Fed could almost half-arse at alot of the slams he played. He won a few slams there where you werent getting the best out of Fed. There wasnt a player like Nadal who could push him to the limit. Hewitt and Roddick. But neither were the calibor of Nadal. People will say Roger's best days are behind him. But if he had to deal with a 22 year old Nadal who has primed back in 04-06 the results would have been the same as they are now with Nadal taking most of the matches from clay to HC to grass and Fed may only be sitting half the slams he has now. MAYBE LESS
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2009
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  7. DoubleDeuce

    DoubleDeuce Hall of Fame

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    Firstly, he's the number one as defined by ATP guidelines. Other than that anyone can choose their own number one.

    Number one does not mean absolute better. In this regard, I am going to agree with Toni when he recently said Federer is a better player. Sure he knows what he's talking about.

    For me personally, Federer is the number one and always will be, simply because what he did for me no other player ever did.
     
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  8. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

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    Yeah but who won Wimbledon and the Australian Open? Lol You can have imaginary friends as well. Whatever makes you feel better.
     
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  9. DoubleDeuce

    DoubleDeuce Hall of Fame

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    See? For you it's only who wins what. That's apparently the deciding factor for you.
    Like I said above, to each his own.
     
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  10. pound cat

    pound cat G.O.A.T.

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    Originally Posted by DoubleDeuce
    Firstly, he's the number one as defined by ATP guidelines. Other than that anyone can choose their own number one.

    Number one does not mean absolute better. In this regard, I am going to agree with Toni when he recently said Federer is a better player. Sure he knows what he's talking about.

    For me personally, Federer is the number one and always will be, simply because what he did for me no other player ever did.

    I have no idea where NadalFreak found this post as it is not on this thread.

    For me personally, Federer is the number one and always will be, simply because what he did for me no other player ever did.


    double deuce, you have finally articulated the basis of the Nadal /Federer message board rivalry. It is not based on logic, but it is simply based on subjective feeling for one or the other player.
    Like religion, you have no hope of convincing the other side.

    Given that, some like Federer, some like Nadal. It's all in the mind, and neither side can be convinced of the other's point of view.

    SO..forget all this Federer.Nadal stuff. You like tomatoes, I like tomahtoes. Period...never to be resolved....NEVER NEVER NEVER .


    Personally, I have never given up on Safin, and no one can convince me otherwise. It's all in my mind. like Federer or Nadal is to others.


    Cheers............
     
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  11. edmondsm

    edmondsm Legend

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    Who doesn't think Nadal is a serious #1? I would call this thread trolling but I don't know who the OP is trying to **** off.
     
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  12. The-Champ

    The-Champ Legend

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    what did he do to you?
     
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  13. tahiti

    tahiti Professional

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    I think the reason is there. Federer came along, toppled Sampras and became unbeatable. It sticks. Like a swarm of bees people follow the new Queen Bee, though I should be saying "King Bee" :twisted:

    The next "to be King Bee", completely opposite to the current in reign, comes along and threatens to throw the whole show overboard. The media assist, explaining a victory or loss as the beginning or end of the world. People don't like change!

    As quoted "whoever is our no. 1" remains your no.1 True. Even when Nadal slips to no. 10, he'll still be my no. 1 . We are like bees to honey. Anything other than our familiar "King Bee" is considered a wasp. Dangerous, different and WRONG!
     
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  14. tahiti

    tahiti Professional

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    Oops though must mention Pound Cat to say

    Quote: Originally Posted by DoubleDeuce
    Firstly, he's the number one as defined by ATP guidelines.

    Is like saying Federer & Sampras was only defined as No. 1 by ATP guideline. Bit strange isn't it? When there are no other definitions or guidelines in place?
     
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  15. P_Agony

    P_Agony Banned

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    Nadal is the best in the world at the moment and anyone who believes otherwise is clearly in denial. That said, you can argue that his style is not pretty to watch (personally, I think it's a borefest), but he is the most effective, consistent and tough mentally player on tour right now, and therefore the best. I do think Federer ans some other players are more talented than Nadal as far as shotmaking abilities goes, but obviously that's not enough. The only person at the moment who seems like he has the ability to beat Nadal and take his place is Andy Murray. He has the tennis skills, the movement, and is starting to develop a real mental toughness against the top players. However, Murray still has to prove himself in the slams and on other surfaces like clay and grass, as Nadal did time and time again.
     
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  16. P_Agony

    P_Agony Banned

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    No.

    10 chars.
     
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  17. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    dont mix thinking and posting

    That can be a dangerous thing. Please drop the habit at once.

    :)
     
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  18. Pinkskunk

    Pinkskunk Rookie

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    And what did he do for you? :shock:

    Federer IS a former World #1, as is Samprass and those before him....... Today, Nadal is World #1. The ATP ranking is there for a reason. You don't rank/make someone #1 because you have feeling for him/her. you rank someone #1 for the total of points that he/she accumulated and remain ahead, and in today's game, it's NOT easy.
     
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  19. pound cat

    pound cat G.O.A.T.

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    And they have no real appreciation for the game of tennis and all those who successfully play it.
     
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  20. Pinkskunk

    Pinkskunk Rookie

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    i guess those people who packed the stadium on his matches in recent ATP tournaments are crazy to pay to participate in borefest?

    let me tell you, there is nothig i enjoy watching more when Nadal and Federer go head-to-head. and so is almost all real tennis fans. it is a treat in our generation of tennis fans to have these two. I am affraid to say the best of it is starting to fade as one of them is weakening. I hope he raise again so we can have some unbelieble tennis to watch.

    let's face it, Federer's tennis is an art, Nadal's tennis is a bull fight. each has their own uniqueness. in the end, the one with the most points earns the trophy.
     
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  21. caulcano

    caulcano Hall of Fame

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    People just need to look at the rankings for who's #1.
     
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  22. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    I don't think his #1'ness is questioned, but what is questioned is whether he is a contender for GOAT. Against the rest of the field, I'd say both Fed and Nadal deserve #1 right now because both are still very dominant. Its just that Nadal has the matchup advantage against Fed now which puts him in the leading spot (ie. Nadal beat Fed in the finals of 5 of his 6 slam wins, including the last 3 in a row that Nadal has won to put him at #1). I can accept that Nadal is the true #1 at the present.
     
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  23. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    The bolded part is usual stuff from you which is off the thread topic,this thread is not about discrediting Fed's achievements to make Sampras look better,there are plenty of those around.The OP point was about tennis elitists and purists having a hard time accepting that somoene who is in their eyes still just a grinder and claycourter dominating tennis,this thread isn't about Fed sucks-Sampras is better which is what you turn every thread into with your remarks.Slam wins never come easy to anyone in tennis,you're disrespecting the players and the sport by saying such nonsense.Nadal had to work for what he has,and Fed didn't? You don't have a first clue about tennis or competitive sport in general.Proffesional sport is an environment where nothing comes easily.

    We already established that according to Sampras fans here that Roger won all his slams due to pure luck and playing clowns like Hewitt(who had a winning record against almost any player of note from the latter part of the 90s),that he would have won zero slams if he was the same age as Nadal and that in 2008-2009 he's playing as great as he was in 2005 and 2006 it's just that Andreev,Tipsarevic and Berdych have all also improved so much that they're able to push Fed to the brink of losing in HC slams in early rounds,something that didn't happen even once during 2004-2007(Fed rarely lost sets before quarterfinals in HC slams in that period).The competition has improved so much that even though Fed is playing as great as he was in 2005-2006 he's losing not just sets but matches to Fish,Karlovic,Roddick,Blake,Ginepri and Stepanek,all up coming youngsters who Fed never faced before,we should also neglect the fact that aside from USO and Basel Fed didn't reach a SINGLE HARDCOURT FINAL during the whole year.Hardcourts,the surface Fed used to dominate.He was also down 5-1 to a great claycourter Hidalgo in the Monte Carlo masters,we should neglect that as well.

    Hey but guess what,he reached a slam final,that means he must be in his absolute prime,no way a player of Fed's caliber can reach a slam final past his prime,that's impossible.I guess we should also conclude then that Sampras was in his prime in 2000-2002 period since he reached 3 USO finals in a row(never managed to do that during his prime years),in 2000 when he lost to Safin in the final Sampras lost only one set on the reute there(something that also he never accomplished in his prime).

    Really they should just make a sticky Fed sucks and only won slams because he beat clowns so Sampras fanboys like yourself can bash him to infinity for daring to come close to breaking your idol's slam record,pathetic.
     
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  24. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    I understand your point completely but people should get over the fact that Nadals is now a proven player on every surface and in no way can he be labeled as simply a claycourter anymore.Regardless of his playing style,Nadal holds 3 out 4 slams at the moment,he's a completely deserving number one.Nadal started as a claycourter(although he could still play great tennis at times on HC)but worked hard on his game and improved his serve,BH,even FH,overall improved became more agressive off ground and improved his offense adding to his already great defense(which still remains the main strength of his game).He's obviously the best player in the world right now and has proven to be an all-surface player,there's nothing more to be added about that topic.
     
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  25. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

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    the ever so classy Zarzuela calling out ignorant on a massive number of former pros and Tennis specialist...
     
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  26. certifiedjatt

    certifiedjatt Banned

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    most people on here recycle the comments made by commentators. so, if a commentator says "federer glides on the court with undeniable elegance", the next day, you'll find 9 threads on Federer's elegance, and how he glides on the court. commentators have described federer as a "mathematical genius" because of how he uses the angles of the court ( i must be einstien squared, then). people have described him as a ballet dancer because his movement on court is supposedly so...um...ballet like.

    nadal's game is described as brute force. jockish, no brain, not elegant, not artistic, etc. and i find that ridiculously disconcerting. i find nothing "artistic" or "genius" in federer's game.

    people place so much emphasis on elegance (whatever the hell that means) and its necessity in being a number 1. if you aren't elegant, you aren't a real number 1. what a load of crap.

    I'm a Sampras fan, so i don't really have a bias between nadal and federer. but, if federer's Monet, than nadal is Cezanne. If Federer's ballet, than Nadal is hip hop. If Federer's a mathematical genius ( rrrrright), Nadal is a mad scientist of the highest order. If federer's "i have my own logo and i wear a gold and white purse to wimbledon center court", nadal is "i kicked your ass in French, Wimbledon, and Australian Open, you pansy mofo."
     
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  27. Cyan

    Cyan Hall of Fame

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    Because Rafa does not play ballet tennis or look like Quentin Tarantino.
     
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  28. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    classic post.

    i think its just jealousy / hurt that one's fav has been beaten.
     
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  29. Cyan

    Cyan Hall of Fame

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    If Rafa was ugly people wouldnt hate him so much.
     
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  30. tahiti

    tahiti Professional

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    Totally agree with the last post & the one about people sore having their own favourite beaten. Rafa is also just unconventional. Right handed but plays left, what's up with that. Weird or not and still so good.

    I don't understand still why Rafa gets a bad rap. He and Fed seem to be good friends & his behaviour, empathy and respect towards Fed has always been exemplary.:)
     
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  31. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

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    Look at my avatar and you'll know why Fed fans hate Nadal. :D
     
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  32. Serve_Ace

    Serve_Ace Professional

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    Uh we don't hate Nadal, we hate it that Nadal fans take every single chance to rub it in our faces, like what you're doing with your avatar and sometime they'll create out of nothing a chance to insult Federer.
     
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  33. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    Whatever is wrong with you? Zaragoza's post IS very classy, your post is... embarrassing :(
     
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  34. tahiti

    tahiti Professional

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    Yeah :) And then the very guy who breaks his heart consoles him and tells him "don't worry, you're still gonna beat Sampras's record". Fed can't even dislike Rafie, he's just too kind.

    This goat business is weird. Why a goat? Are we in a Chinese horoscope? If so then my vote is that 2008 was "The Year of the Bull"
     
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  35. edmondsm

    edmondsm Legend

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    It's obvious that a person who likes Fed would not like Nadal, and vice versa. They are completely different styles and personalities. Why does it always have to be about some personal annomosity. You just don't like how one guy plays or conducts himself, it's not rocket science.
     
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  36. edmondsm

    edmondsm Legend

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    This is true. Many Nadal fans rarely exhibit the class that Nadal does. Case in point, Nadal_Freak.
     
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  37. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    Not necessarily.
     
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  38. icedevil0289

    icedevil0289 Legend

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    yeah,but then there are those few select people who like both nadal and fed. I guess it is possible to like one thing in one person and a different thing in another.
     
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  39. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    I don't think Nadal gets a bad rap anymore. Everyone is really excited to see how much more he can do, commentators and specialists are starting to mention a calendar slam and other wonderful prospects for him. He used to get a bad rap because people saw Federer as the absolute dominant figure and they didn't understand it could change, they didn't WANT it to change, people always go with the safest bet, the continuum because it's reassuring. I like that about Nadal, that he always seems to beat the odds; the more people doubt him, the better he's gonna do, he thrives on challenge. I also like the fact that things didn't always come easy to him, it's a test of endurance and it means that he will be better prepared for when the going gets extra tough.
    On a more shallow note, Nadal is sexy and perceived as "hot" by a lot of women (not all but a lot) and when that happens there's always some kind of backlash from the male contingent. I remember young Agassi went through the same ordeal (his popularity with the female crowd was proportional to the irritation he triggered in a lot of male commentators).
     
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  40. tahiti

    tahiti Professional

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    On Nadal's forum, we love Fed as much as Nadal.
    NAdal wouldn't be as great if it weren't for Fed. We recognise that and appreciate what both bring to the game.

    True champions are great to watch when they win and lose

    But I blame the media too. They took forever to recognise Rafa and it's natural then that others take time to follow suite. Rafans have had to live on faith for a while.
     
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  41. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    And yet there are some Fedal fans, they exist, you can't deny it!
     
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  42. rubberduckies

    rubberduckies Professional

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    Personal animosity (which always plays a big role when you're dealing with deluded frontrunner fans) aside, I think it boils down to two things:

    Nadal grunts - people who chose to make a sound as they hit are obviously struggling a lot more and working a lot harder than non-grunters

    Fed's 1hbh - players with this aesthetically pleasing stroke are obviously more talented that those who have to hit with two hands
     
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  43. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    I must say your avatar is spectacular!
     
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  44. icedevil0289

    icedevil0289 Legend

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    I've been on both the forums for their sites and its really great to see the nadal fans are a lot more appreciative of fed than the fed fans are of nadal on fed's site. Some are just plain nasty.
     
    #44
  45. icedevil0289

    icedevil0289 Legend

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    wow, I didn't know someone's tears and sadness could be spectacular. Good to know.
     
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  46. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

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    Boo hoo. Fed lost. It's not the end of the world though he made it seem that way. The man needs to learn to lose with grace. What an embarrassment he was at the trophy ceremony.
     
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  47. P_Agony

    P_Agony Banned

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    That's my opinion. I think Nadal's game is a borefest. Don't try to convince me otherwise - I'm entitled to my opinion.
     
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  48. icedevil0289

    icedevil0289 Legend

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    most nadal fans have pictures of nadal winning, but I guess your an exception. Something tells me you enjoy fed losing more than you enjoy nadal winning.
     
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  49. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    Very enjoyable post, well observed. I think it also shows the media's need for polar opposites, a colorful rivalry. Maybe Federer and Nadal are not that dissimilar in the end but it makes it more fun to polarize their styles: "Sissy and the beast" lol.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2009
    #49
  50. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    It's not so much the tears, it's the photo angle and the way Fed looks at the trophy. But I know it's mean, sorry...
     
    #50

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