The Retirement/Withdraw Open

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by GOAT BAAH!!!, Sep 3, 2011.

  1. GOAT BAAH!!!

    GOAT BAAH!!! Professional

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    A US Open record.

    These players are breaking down...

    Terrible for them

    and

    Terrible for the people who paid good money...
     
    #1
  2. celoft

    celoft Guest

    This US open blows.

    Unless Federer or Murray wins it.
     
    #2
  3. GOAT BAAH!!!

    GOAT BAAH!!! Professional

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    Another retirement...

    WTF
     
    #3
  4. christos_liaskos

    christos_liaskos Professional

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    With two men's retirements today that is now a record equalling 10 for them, 18th over all including the women.

    This is what Murray had to say about it moments ago on his facebook/twitter;
    is the 18th pull out in the us open telling the tennis authorities anything?? No?? Thought not....
     
    #4
  5. hcb0804

    hcb0804 Hall of Fame

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    It is due to forcing the players to play too much tennis in too short a time.
    it's just nuts in today's demanding game to have 2 Masters 1000 events back to back in the spring (IW then Miami) and the 2 Masters 1000s back to back in the summer (Canada and Cincy) and then the US Open,
    This was ok back in the day of wooden racquets, soft gut strings and most tournaments were played on soft grass or clay surfaces where the demands on the body were much less. Today, with most tennis played on hard courts, and played with stiff racquets and poly strings launching the balls at howitzer speeds making the game be played at breakneck speed, no wonder the players bodies are breaking down under the stress of playing with no time to recover.
     
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  6. vtec407

    vtec407 New User

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    If I were watching a match and one of the player retires, I would want a refund. Complete BS in my opinion. Players have injuries and all but the system must be fixed.
     
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  7. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

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    Unfortunately facts don't bear any of your points out. a) some of those pulling the rip cord didn't play the summer hard; stayed in EU and played clay; b) arm joint injuries would lead to a conclusion that CLAY is the problem surface - points last too long, thus straining the arm joints because you have to hit 3x or 4x shots every point; c) the racquets today are better on the arms - they have materials built in to absorb the blow.

    The players need to practice smarter - do they really have to hit that much on off days? They have to play enough tournaments to get points - that won't change.
     
    #7
  8. winstonplum

    winstonplum Hall of Fame

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    Embarrassing.
     
    #8
  9. courtking

    courtking Semi-Pro

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    These guys need to man up.. In the old days, Becker, Edberg, Sampras, Aggassi and even early days of Federer & Nadal, All masters were playing 5 sets.. then they cut down the final 5 sets now it seems every thing 2 sets except in the slams.. so NO.. these guys are making millions and they need to work harder to earn it
     
    #9
  10. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    Great post. They have to do something about the scheduling or it's gonna be the same story every year.
     
    #10
  11. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    they should change everything to clay

    that's what she said
     
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  12. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    LOLWUT?

    Clay is not the problem surface. It is only played on for one third of the tour and the points are longer than in the past almost everywhere except for a couple of tourneys so I don't see why you isolate this surface. Heck, I've seen some clay courts that are actually faster than some of the slow HC ones ,with points being shorter there.
     
    #12
  13. FedExpress 333

    FedExpress 333 Professional

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    I think we need more grass courts.
     
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  14. Bryan Swartz

    Bryan Swartz Hall of Fame

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    There is nothing overtaxing about players having half the year off. Athletes in past eras, in all sports really, used to play through injuries that they don't play through any more. That's the main difference.
     
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  15. GhostDog

    GhostDog Hall of Fame

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    Yep, it's about manning up, and playing through injuries. Short of the injury being completely debilitating or career threatening, there's no excuse imho. Add to the fact that this the final major of the year, it's look even worse.

    I'll echo players needing learn how to train, and practice smarter as well.
     
    #15
  16. Bryan Swartz

    Bryan Swartz Hall of Fame

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    I think when you look at the situation players are retiring in, things become more clear. Players talk about not risking long-term injury. I buy that, if true. Thing is, the facts are overwhelming in the direction of it being a bunch of unadulterated horse hockey.

    Of the men's retirements so far:

    ** None were leading in their match at the time they retired.

    ** Only one had won a set.

    ** Almost all were down at least a set and a break.


    So what is really going on here? I have no chance of winning and I'm not playing well. Probably with a minor injury too. But in most cases I agree with the last poster:

    Suck it up and play.
     
    #16
  17. KHSOLO

    KHSOLO Semi-Pro

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    You can also see in the WTA every woman playing has some kind of tape on her somewhere
     
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  18. Chris182

    Chris182 New User

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    @bryan, maybe they are behind cuz of that injury...
    i doubt if they retire cuz they're losing. that would be really...*****...
     
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  19. Medved

    Medved Rookie

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    That may be the point. What financial profit is there for a player to play out a match if winning is not likely? They're paid if they win, not if they play.
     
    #19
  20. JustBob

    JustBob Hall of Fame

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    "In the old days"... "In previous eras"... Tennis was nowhere near as physical a sport as it is today.
     
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  21. Subventricular Zone

    Subventricular Zone Rookie

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    Regardless of the reasons for the withdrawals/retirements, the ATP needs to shorten the year. What other major sport, and an individual sport at that, does not have an off-season? It's ridiculous!!!
     
    #21
  22. pound cat

    pound cat G.O.A.T.

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    US Open - Hurt and sick players fall at record rat


    Sat, 03 Sep 22:22:00 2011

    uk.eurosport.co.uk/tennis














    .


    Before the third round was finished on Saturday, 14 players retired during their matches, two more than the previous grand slam high of 12, registered at Wimbledon in 2008, according to records kept since tennis turned professional in 1968.

    There have also been two walkovers and two withdrawals, which aren't included in the records, giving a total of 18 quitters.

    There were 12 official retirements on the first five days then two more on Saturday, putting the 2011 U.S. championship at the top of the list of the sick, infirm and afflicted among.

    Tomas Berdych, the ninth seed, threw in the towel in his match against Serbian Janko Tipsarevic in the second set because of shoulder pain, and Spain's Marcel Granollers was unable to continue in the second set of his third-round match against compatriot Juan Carlos Ferrero because of a muscle strain in his abdomen.

    The casualty list includes some of the sport's biggest stars. Two-time winner Venus Williams withdrew before her second match after revealing she was suffering from an autoimmune disorder.

    The men's sixth seed, Swede Robin Soderling, never even made it on court, pulling out before his first match.

    Many players in the past have talked about the unique challenges of the U.S. Open, from noisy fans, to the choking traffic delaying their commute, to the distractions of New York city. But none of those complaints could explain all the fallen.

    Reasons for retirements ranged from three shoulders and two abdominal muscles to a hamstring, a lower back, cramping, a rolled ankle and food poisoning.
    Reuters.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2011
    #22
  23. Raphael

    Raphael Semi-Pro

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    So, given the variety of reasons for the athletes pulling out of matches, it would seem that blaming the surface doesn't make logical sense.

    I'd say that it may be more scheduling issues than anything else.

    The cramping doesn't surprise me, since there have been many players who have wilted in the hot and humid conditions of the US Open. (Then again, its not exactly chilly when they play the Australian Open, but since thats at the start of the season maybe they are more fresh?)
     
    #23
  24. Atherton2003

    Atherton2003 Hall of Fame

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    I heard that players aren't really trying to finish the matches - they are just retiring. The announcer said that even if they are 80%, they should try to finish a match. Fans pay to see matches, and as a courtesy to the opponent, these players should try at all costs to finish the match. Seems that when they are losing, they simply give up and retire. They ought to withold money for those that retire from a match - or at least pro-rate the pay-outs if they quit a match - then we'd have a lot more players finishing matches.
     
    #24
  25. Medved

    Medved Rookie

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    I'm not a tennis pro so I don't know what their world is like financially or what their goals are. But I do know that most of those guys have to be pretty rich to even get to compete. It's obvious that by the time they figure out they're not going to win, they're cutting their losses and not risking further injury for future tournaments. How much of a prize money difference would their have to be to motivate a player to stay in a match just for money?
     
    #25
  26. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

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    Easy for some armchair or bitter ex-pro who made 1/100th to say, because...

    Well said. With no Retirement Fund, they are independent contractors and have to maximize their time/money for their career.

    And the ones with IQs north of Forrest Gump know that injuries happen. There were more matches so the fans - at least the ones willing to walk a little bit - should have gotten a full day of tennis and their money's worth.
     
    #26
  27. Bryan Swartz

    Bryan Swartz Hall of Fame

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    The off-season is just broken up. Players still take off several weeks at a time if they so prefer(often after Wimbledon for example, after the YEC, etc.)

    They still get half the year off. That's more than in a lot of sports.
     
    #27
  28. Atherton2003

    Atherton2003 Hall of Fame

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    Years ago, virtually none of the tennis players retired from matches as we see today. It seems like it's the new fad to retire from matches when one is losing badly. I'm not saying all of these are not legitimate injuries - but far too many look like they just gave up.
     
    #28
  29. Bryan Swartz

    Bryan Swartz Hall of Fame

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    Maybe so on the first part, but they still waited until being well behind. Which means, logically, that either they were willing to risk further injury to get a win, meaning they are either A) stupid or B) the injury is not one that is a long-term risk of becoming worse, or C) they just wanted to get away from a bad memory.

    If long-term injury risk were consistently the reason, you would sometimes see players retire when ahead or close in the match. It would not be as one-sided as it is now. There's nothing about being behind that makes injury that much more likely :).
     
    #29
  30. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

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    Great post. The top guys take huge breaks after 3 of the 4 majors.

    Well, those days are over. They didn't run as fast, hit as hard. The big money has attracted a lot of competition for the spots in the main draws. If a player screws himself up by continuing to play when injured, he could miss months and have a tough time regaining his ranking. Smarter to pull the rip cord and only miss a week or two.

    I get this sense from some posters that the players OWE it to the fans to risk further, more serious injuries to entertain them. It's ridiculous.
     
    #30
  31. obsessedtennisfandisorder

    obsessedtennisfandisorder Professional

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    s0rry ATP, This is what happens when yu sl0w down traditinally fast c0urts

    their 2001 decisin to slow down the courts becuase Forrest Gump IQ people
    couldn't appreciate s@v tennis ..is coming back t0 haunt.

    any noticed the *quiet* press realease fromUSTA...that they will try tospeed
    courts up again....now why would you say that...thinkabut it.

    and $100 on djoko retiring and winning only 1 more slam b4 kurten again.
     
    #31
  32. Federer>Djokovic>Nadal

    Federer>Djokovic>Nadal Banned

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    I don't see how that would help the tennis authorities' objective to make everything play like clay, unless they use the Wimbledon rye grass.

    But I would love to see an extended grass court season with real grass.
     
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  33. obsessedtennisfandisorder

    obsessedtennisfandisorder Professional

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    brilliant post...witty and to the p0int...without getting arrgant/smartarse
    like I usually do.

    The real question here is why guys are arriving in NY *slightly injured*

    this "play thru pain" stuff is only 20% argument.

    just seemed back in the 80's 90's guys were 100% fresh at start
     
    #33
  34. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    LOL. Its not the ATP's fault that certain players need every point they can get from clay tourneys just to have enough points to hold on to ....well, certain rankings because their game doesnt translate to faster surfaces, even though said faster surfaces are being slowed across the board.

    Mayhaps certain players need to learn how to win points in less than 5 minutes.
    You know, adapt their games for other surfaces like players used to.

    Either that or just become a specialist.
     
    #34
  35. KHSOLO

    KHSOLO Semi-Pro

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    Sometimes you cant finish matches without risking even worst injuries, even an amateur knows this
     
    #35
  36. hcb0804

    hcb0804 Hall of Fame

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    Totally backwards logic West Coast, buddy! The hard courts, the stiff racquets, and the polywire string are the problems.....leg killers and arm killers.
     
    #36
  37. nissrro

    nissrro New User

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    did anyone see when berdych and tipsarevic shook hands? tipsy ddidnt look to happy.....?
     
    #37
  38. Sentinel

    Sentinel Talk Tennis Guru

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    Maybe they are all taking a leaf or two out of Nole's book and hope to come back stronger in a couple of years ... like Nole.
     
    #38
  39. Leelord337

    Leelord337 Hall of Fame

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    I thought the Irish had that fight within. Were they clearly injured or just didn't wanna lose by a bad score line? I think the system needs to be fixed being that if the player who retires from a match has to have a clear and obvious injury before he/she retires. And the scoreline should be different as well. Not stating retirements but losing the incomplete sets 60 60 for example. Getting bageled would deter players who retire to keep some pride when playing joker for example.
     
    #39
  40. vincent_tennis

    vincent_tennis Professional

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    I think Novak set a prime example for these guys by finishing the final against Murray in Cincy when he was down a set and a break, qudos to novak!
     
    #40
  41. hcb0804

    hcb0804 Hall of Fame

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    Djokovic didn't finish the Cincy final match- he RETIRED down a set and 3-0.
     
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  42. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    Lol..I don't think Novak immediately springs to mind as an example of a non-quitter. His retirements are legendary including pulling out of a match against Federer a few years ago with a sore throat!

    I guess you didn't watch the Cincy final. He pulled out at a set and 0-3 down with a sore shoulder. It was his first retirement this year.
     
    #42
  43. GOAT BAAH!!!

    GOAT BAAH!!! Professional

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    And another one gone, and another one gone...

    another one bites the dust...
     
    #43
  44. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    how many retirements is it now? what's the record?
     
    #44
  45. Baxter

    Baxter Professional

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    Tipsy retired, so I'm guessing 19.
     
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