The rise of Novak Djokovic is unreal

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by 3lite, Apr 11, 2012.

  1. 3lite

    3lite Rookie

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    Now let me start out by saying this is not a thread accusing a player of steroid use whatsoever. However, I personally do not think that he is natural... Or rather not as natural as everyone else is that plays on the ATP tour.

    Anyways, could somebody please explain to me how in hell did this guy reach this level out of nowhere? I say nowhere because his rise started after USO 2010 where he lucked out on Federer... but he was still a nutcase in the finals vs. Nadal. Now, we all know it began during Davis Cup... but really, the guy had the weakest of stamina in 2010... How did a player of his caliber (at the time) get so much better in 2011? Don't give me that gluten mess...

    Some people say he sold his soul to the devil...

    Some say it's due to the the colored juices he drinks during matches...

    Some say he was always this good and needed to mature...

    Some say he went back to his old racket...

    I mean this was a guy that was known for quitting when the going gets tough less than 24 months ago... and now suddenly he is regarded as a mental giant comparable to the likes of Rafael Nadal?
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2015
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  2. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    this is a thread i made a while back that addresses some of this

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=412049



    Ok I'm writing this because over the past year I've kept posting the same facts over and over again in an attempt to dispell certain myths about Djokovic that people have carved in stone and now refer to rather than look back at said facts. This mainly relates to Novak's physical issues and retirements etc.

    The myth-
    Novak was a weakling who could not last a 5th set

    look at these stats here -

    http://www.matchstat.com/PlayerInjuries/5992

    You will actually see that NONE of Novak's retirements so far have occured in the 5th set of a match. The closest thing is his retirement in the 4th set of the AO against Roddick. In fact more than half of the retirements came in the 2nd set of the match. One came at 6-6 in the first set, which would also rather dispell the myth that he only quits when he feels he can't win the match. He also quit whilst 2 sets to 1 up against Davydenko.

    On the other hand look at his record when the match DID go to 5 sets. It's 15-5 (to put this in perspective, 5 set warrior Nadal is 15-4, and overall novak is 7th on the list of all time reliability) Only 3 of these 5 set wins have come since the start of 2011, meaning prior to his remarkable improvement he was still 12-5 in 5th sets, and remember he didn't retire in any of those 5 losses.

    stats here http://www.atpworldtour.com/Reliability-Zone/Reliability-5th-Set-Record-Career-List.aspx

    Furthermore look at the stats for a few tournaments. take Wimbledon 2007 where these were 4 back to back matches for 20 year old Novak -

    R64 Delic 6-3 3-6 6-3 7-6 (2h 19mins)
    R32 Keifer 7-6 6-7 6-2 7-6 (3h 39mins)
    R16 Hewitt 7-6 7-6 4-6 7-6 (4h 12mins)
    QF Baghdatis 7-6 7-6 6-7 4-6 7-5 (5hours)

    He then retired against Nadal at 1 set all and a break down in the 3rd, but those were pretty tough matches for a so called weakling to make it through. There are also several other long matches around this time and earlier, including his final set tiebreak match vs Stepenek at the US Open in the 2nd round 2007 (6-7 7-6 5-7 7-5 7-6).

    Then there's the match in Madrid 2009, a match which went 4 hours for 3 sets of tennis where Novak was standing at the end, just unable to take any of the match points he had. That year after the retirement in Australia, Djokovic went on to play nearly 100 matches, and not withdrawing form any events on his schedule, something which every other top player failed to do - they all had to skip events. Djokovic reached 5 masters finals, but only won Paris at the end of the season (beating nadal on the way) when everyone else was getting tired despite Novak having played more matches. He also won Basel just prior to this beating Federer. His tiredness towards the end of the season apparently caused him shoulder problems and prompted him to change service motion which then ruined his 2010 season, where he spent too much energy just scraping wins (see his Dubai win that year where he was awful but ground it out) in my opinion, this had a big effect on him going backwards physically from an impressive 2009 (I think he had hired Muster's old fitness coach that year)

    Now here's the thing. When has Novak had serious injuries, keeping him out of the game? Most of his issues have come out of nowhere in one match. In my opinion, Novak has been a bit of a hypercondriac, when things are going hard sometimes he's had a habit of thinking "I'm finished" or if he's hurting he'd overreact to that and let his mind make it worse. We know with a strong mind you can push through the pain barrier and move towards your goal, you just need to be disciplined and focused. We also know that your mind can play tricks on you and make you think you're feeling better or worse than you really are. The mind is a very powerful thing and has a huge effect on what the body can or can't do. The fact that now he is stronger in the mind and much more focused on his goal of winning, has had a huge impact physically.

    Many people are cynical about him, but I don't think the link between a strong mind and strong body should be overlooked, and nor should the fact that Djokovic had stamina in the past - his retirements were weird situations that seemed to happen for no real reason other than maybe he wasn't feeling great that day and couldn't tough it out because his determination was lacking. If people can lift cars off people through sheer mind over matter, why can't someone get strong enough in the head to fight through the pain barrier and get their second wind?
     
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  3. 3lite

    3lite Rookie

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    Yeah that is great and all... but how does a guy with that type of mental fortitude come blasting everyone in 2011 like that? It seemed like the transformation almost happened over night.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2015
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  4. OverratedIvanovic

    OverratedIvanovic Semi-Pro

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    Apart from tremendous physical improvement he has made, I feel his court positioning has improved a lot too. See how far he returns the serve at USO 2010 final http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG90-qSU_Ww and compare it with his match vs nadal at USO 2011. He stands a lot closer now robbing nadal of time.

    Another reason for his invincibility against rafa is due to latter's level drop in 2011 compared to 2010. Nadal's DTL BH is non existent now. The low slices of 2010 have gone loopier. Add to it, an aged Federer and a mental midget Murray and you have an unbeatable Novak :evil:
     
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  5. nadal_slam_king

    nadal_slam_king Banned

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    Whatever Dj has done in order to improve was barely enough to beat Nadal at the most recent slam, a slam Nadal had failed at the QF stage of the last 2 years. I think Dj needs to improve some more.
     
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  6. Hitman

    Hitman G.O.A.T.

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    He barely beat Federer in US Open semi, and barely beat Murray in the AO semi before Nadal. But he still BEAT all three of them. Nadal he owns currently, Murray can't beat him in the slams at the moment, and Federer despite being his worst match-up went 1-4 against him in 2011.

    He's also shown that as far as Nadal is concerned, Novak doesn't need to play his best to beat him.
     
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  7. The Hype

    The Hype New User

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    Most likely is that after the 2010 US open Djokovic realised he had to blood dope to reach his potential. He figured that the other top guys are doing it so why shouldn't I. No other scenario makes sense, the gluten story is just a cover. Whether he was doing steroids and other things for recovery before 2011, well, who knows.
     
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  8. CocaCola

    CocaCola Professional

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    Djokovic was always mentally strong. His TB record is amazing for a guy who does not have a big serve. His 5th set record is 15-5.
    It's just that he respected both Fed and Nadal too much. I think he felt frustrated that he's in an era with 2 such a dominant players. He said in some of his recent interviews that he was afraid of winning big matches against them.
    Now his confidence is just amazing. I'm also think that an obvious weight loss he suffered since he's gluten-free was something than helped him move even better on court.
     
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  9. celoft

    celoft Guest

    Losing the US Open final to clay courter Nadal was the last straw that broke the camel's back I'm sure. After that he was so disgusted he decided to go to the dark side. Don't blame him.
     
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  10. Satch

    Satch Hall of Fame

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    He is someone who managed to beat both Federer and Nadal in a row (when they where in top 2 and indestructible). Only flaw in his game was his stamina, that he manage to get to a higher level because of hard work in the gym (he added some mass too).

    So for sure it isn't "over night", nothing happens over night. It's hard work and incredible amount of talent and will that got him here where he is now.
     
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  11. dudeski

    dudeski Hall of Fame

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    Great post! I wish more people around here were like you. Now just wait for Clarky21 to come in here with her garbage accusations.
     
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  12. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    Joker is the real deal. Deal with it.
     
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  13. Evan77

    Evan77 Banned

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    over night my ars. Djokovic was super strong back in 2007. He worked his *** off to get where he is right now. what a stupid thread. some of you guys are just simply pathetic. Djoko is super talented, and he was able to defeat Fed, Nadal 5 years ago... he just wasn't consistent enough...

    it took some time for him to simply mature ... when I hear this 'oh, he showed up out of nowhere it makes me sick'... some people here started watching tennis like what, last year ...

    too many retards on this board
     
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  14. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    Not he's not. Deal with it.
     
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  15. jackson vile

    jackson vile Legend

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    The big thing is that people forget his string and racket woes. Otherwise he would have been stripping more slams from the hands of Ronald and Nadal.
     
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  16. pmerk34

    pmerk34 Legend

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    So either you look fresh as a daisy by set 4 or 5 or your have "really weak stamina"? There is no in between?
     
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  17. pmerk34

    pmerk34 Legend

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    To be fair many players are on tour 3 years before most of us remember them. Djokovic turned pro in 2003. I had never heard of him until 2007
     
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  18. Tabash

    Tabash Rookie

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    Turned pro in 03 but that doesn't mean he was on the ATP tour . He was playing challengers and futures then. He was only 16 in 03. His first year on the main tour was 2005, his first Slam was a first round with Safin that year and I remember him playing the USO later that year. In 06 he had a really close 5 setter with Ancic (who was a big grass court player at the time) in the 4th round of Wimbledon. That was a really good match, I was sure he was going to become a top player after that. Anyway my point is, it wasn't "4 years" before the majority noticed him. Many had heard of him as early as 2006(only his second year on the main tour). He won Amersfoort and Metz that year and it was also the year of "would he/wouldn't he become British?"
     
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  19. pmerk34

    pmerk34 Legend

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    How do you become British if you are Serbian? Anyway, yeah most "overnight" guys have been pro for years but as you noted in the early years he wasn't on the actual tour.
     
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  20. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    Nice makeover, as a Joker fan. :D

    While talking about rackets, lets be thankful "Ronald" doesn't play with a larger racket. I'd like to see Ralph and co. playing with a 90.
     
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  21. ALL IN

    ALL IN Rookie

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    I just want to let you know that your post contains more fact about you than it does about Djokovic. To clarify, you have disclosed the following about yourself to us all:

    1. You don't understand hard work
    2. You don't believe that hard work pays off
    3. You're not technically observant of tennis
    4. You have never overcome a mental obstacle
    5. You have never overcome anything in your life without taking a "short cut" or cheating. (think college)
    6. You project your attributes or lack of ability onto others (not uncommon)


    Thanks for sharing your uninformed, fact less and skewed opinion. Maybe it would help you if you read a book about perseverance and determination. It would certainly help you become a better person and gain some understanding about how life works when one is motivated and determined.
     
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  22. ALL IN

    ALL IN Rookie

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    With your post count you don't have time to do anything in life other than post here! Now THAT'S the real deal!!!! lol!
     
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  23. Evan77

    Evan77 Banned

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    I've seen him for the first time at the USO 2005 against Monfils. so much drama in that match, but I felt that he was really talented... I was following closely both Novak and Murray at that time, they managed to finish 2006 as top 20 players. I'm Canadian ... when I saw him in Montreal (2007), beating top 3 players (Roger, Nadal and Roddick) I was sure that he'll deliver and become #1 at some point.

    again, only ignorant people on this board can say 'oh, Novak showed up out of nowhere'... gee
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2012
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  24. Evan77

    Evan77 Banned

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    spot on my friend. I couldn't agree more. great post.
     
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  25. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    Great post, except i would have probably put it in a less personal manner.

    I've seen people known as quitters (and severely mocked) make a turnaround in one season.

    I've also myself overcome a gluten allergy long back that made me breathless and literally choked me, and the resultant change in results of quitting wheat was huge (long distance running), so i know what difference gluten allergies can make.

    I can thus understand how people who have not experienced the same can be very skeptical.

    Anyway, now Joker has to keep up the intensity which is going to be tough.
     
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  26. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    Thanks.

    I don't actually know why Djokovic doing what he's done is such a surprise, I mean Federer turned into a slam winning machine overnight. In my opinion, finally beating Federer at the US Open did a lot for Djokovic, and made him believe he could win more slams.
     
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  27. AtomicForehand

    AtomicForehand Hall of Fame

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    Don't discount the gluten thing. People have serious reactions to it. Wheat is so ingrained (no pun intended) in the Western diet that people don't even know how sick it makes them, because they never stop eating it--until they stop eating it. I was recently diagnosed with Celiac disease myself, and I can't even begin to tell you what an enormous improvement cutting wheat and other grains out of my diet has made to my health, mental clarity, breathing, stamina, and overall fitness. Not to mention my physical looks and body composition.
     
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  28. pmerk34

    pmerk34 Legend

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    We are always told Wheat is good for you
     
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  29. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    So no chappathis, no puris, no bread? Only rice?
     
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  30. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Thomas Muster's old fitness trainer, Gebhard Phil-Gritsch, started working with Djokovic in mid-2009. He has really whipped Djokovic into physical shape. That's a big part of his improvement, and that improved physical conditioning makes it easier for Djokovic to get stronger mentally.
     
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  31. 3lite

    3lite Rookie

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    You mad?

    Yeah, you mad.

    Mad.
     
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  32. DunlopDood

    DunlopDood Semi-Pro

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    Yes he had a great year, but how quickly people forget that Federer too won 3 grand slams in one year....on three occasions!! And two of those years 2006 & 2007 he played in all four grand slam finals. Novak didn't even get to the french open final last year!
     
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  33. dudeski

    dudeski Hall of Fame

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    I anything I was surprised it took him that long. After great 2007 and then 2008 AO win I fully expected him to be a threat for year end number 1 in 2008.
     
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  34. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    He was probably one the best perrenial #3 players in history from 2007-2010 considering he won Masters titles every year (well he just missed winning one in 2010, but still made some finals that year), how consistently stayed around #3 behind two of the most dominant players, and all his slam semis and finals, plus his lone Slam and WTF win.
     
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  35. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

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    I think it's pretty telling that in 2009/2010 he actually played fairly subpar tennis for the most part and still managed to maintain his position at world #3 ahead of Murray for a large portion of the time.
     
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  36. djokovic2008

    djokovic2008 Hall of Fame

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    This...............
     
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  37. kaku

    kaku Professional

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    He was always a talented player who was beating guys below him but when he came up against Fed/Rafa he never managed to play his best all the time. I think he just got tired of being a second tier player compared to Fedal.
     
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  38. Djokodal Fan

    Djokodal Fan Professional

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    Then who is the real deal to deal with? *******?

    Let him come out and beat Nadal once in his life at slams and I'll accept!
     
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  39. Mike Sams

    Mike Sams Legend

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    He discovered the "secrets" of Nadal's energy boosts and training routines and is duplicating it. It's that simple. Just imagine if other players knew the secrets.
     
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  40. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    2009 could have been a really good year for him but he was being held back by something, maybe pressure to follow up his slam win in 2008. He won the Paris masters and made the finals of Miami, Cinci, Rome and Monte Carlo losing to Murray(Miami), Nadal(MC and Rome) and Federer(cinci). In fact from Cinci 2008 (lost to Murray)to Cinci 2009 he lost 5 masters finals in a row. He also made 2 more masters semis that year and 2 quarters.

    He maybe missed a good chance to win RG in 2009 but I think the battle to beat adal on clay that year ruined him for the French Open.
     
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  41. ALL IN

    ALL IN Rookie

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    Not at all. I didn't mean to sound offensive, I was just being as honest and as direct as I can. No anger here.:)
     
    #41
  42. sbengte

    sbengte Legend

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    Did you manage to find a cure or did you just have to go off gluten and stay off it for good ? I have read about a lot of alternative treatments for food allergies but not sure if anything works or avoidance is the only option.
     
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  43. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    I accidentally discovered that it was gluten that was causing my severe "side-stitches" since i had gone for a month of altitude training in a place where you get only rice and rice-based foods.

    A day after i returned home, the pain started. So i figured it out. For months i stayed off wheat, eating rice, but i lost weight and became weak after 6 months. Today there are substitutes i hear of such as rice flour (google gluten alternatives).

    I then reverted to wheat, found myself unable to breath during training and dropped out of the next race. Could hardly breath for 3 days after that.
     
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  44. monfed

    monfed Guest

    Joke's rise out of nowhere is indeed unreal. I think he took a leaf out of Ralph's book. :lol:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 14, 2012
    #44
  45. MixieP

    MixieP Hall of Fame

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    Listen to Senti. He knows what he's talking about.
     
    #45
  46. 3lite

    3lite Rookie

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    Novak has never replicated his 2011 form ever since he loss in the 2012 FO.

    That 2012 FO final loss to Nadal stunted his confidence. That might of been his biggest chance at winning an FO.

    After that, he proceeded to get dusted in the Olympics, old man Roger at Wimbledon, and a clearly inferior player in Murray at the US Open.

    This man could have at least took the Gold Medal to enter Nadal's class. Could of at least gotten the US Open.

    Then in 2013, another opportunity at FO and fell short to a guy that was MIA for almost a year.
     
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  47. powerangle

    powerangle Legend

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    You reek of Djokovic hatred.

    He had an amazing 2011 and start of 2012...and you come up with conspiracy theories. You claimed that he used to be retiring all the time due to running out of gas before 2011 (which has been thoroughly refuted by Towser), and you couldn't refute that when the facts where pointed out to you.

    Now that Novak has been losing more, you are all too giddy to point out all his major losses.

    Typical.

    So the fact that Rafa took a 7 month break and comes back to practically win everything in sight is not eligible for conspiracy theories?? I'm not saying Rafa is unclean...but it is easy to see the double standards and hypocrisy here.
     
    #47
  48. swordtennis

    swordtennis Hall of Fame

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    Ah I see 3lite is back as soon as Nole gets just a little bit back on Nadal. No problems with Nadal running roughshod over everyone tho.
    This is the one issue I really have zero tolerance on is certain fans pointing fingers at Noles PED use.
    I know for certain a huge portion of Noles improvement has been by natural means. Gluten issues are real. I know I have them full on. Mercury poisoning damaged my body causing huge food allergies to occur. Gluten, wheat, dairy, msg, yeast, etc...all wreck my body and my stamina. The allergies are not as pronounced now as my body has healed considerably.
    Now I am sure the players are all using various "supplements". I have good friends that work for one of the biggest "ped" and sports supplement companies in the USO. I can get what ever I want including HGH and EPO if I wanted it bad enough. So it is not and issue of access. It is not a taboo subject in the professional ranks.
    Also there are supplements that are LEGAL that provide similar effects as HGH. So players can take stuff where they do not have to go to the "hard" stuff....
    So you should really focus on your fav player whoever that might be.
    Thanks! :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2013
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  49. TheF1Bob

    TheF1Bob Banned

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    Novak found his egg and his egg repaid the favor. 8)
     
    #49
  50. FreeBird

    FreeBird Legend

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    Swordtennis, you are on fire these days. :lol:
     
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