The Safin Thread to End All Safin Threads: Does He Have More Potential Than Federer?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by TENNIS_IS_FUN, Oct 1, 2006.

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Is Safin More Talented Than Federer?

  1. Yes

    2 vote(s)
    66.7%
  2. No

    1 vote(s)
    33.3%
  1. TENNIS_IS_FUN

    TENNIS_IS_FUN Professional

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    This has been debated for quite some time....so, the question is: Does Safin Have More Talent Than Federer?
     
    #1
  2. bribeiro

    bribeiro Banned

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    see, this is why hes overrated..
     
    #2
  3. D-man

    D-man Banned

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    Just because Safin has had two brief times of inspiration in his grand slam wins does not mean that was a level of talent that he could have potentially sustained over a more prolonged period of time; this a logical flaw that many of his fans seem to miss. Even if his greatest performance ever would be higher than Federer's (very debatable for just two wins), if it was only for a brief time, that does not earn him any greater place. It is only the players that can actualize that deserve the credit.
     
    #3
  4. Fedexeon

    Fedexeon Hall of Fame

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    Enough of all these " Safin better than Federer" blah blah blah topics...
    All we know that is Safin is very talented, but currently he's not even top 50. Conclusion? He should have worked harder.
     
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  5. angharad

    angharad Semi-Pro

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    Raw potential? Maybe. But potential doesn't do a lot for you unless you use it. Safin, unfortunately, hasn't. And this is kind of sad, but I tend to look at him as a wasted rivalry. If he could play his best (or even his middle-to-good) consistenly, I think he and Federer would have had an incredibly intense rivalry.
     
    #5
  6. superman1

    superman1 Legend

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    Hell no. Safin can't serve and volley and he does not move as well.

    Federer could potentially put on a lot of muscle and start hitting the ball even harder.
     
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  7. Fedexeon

    Fedexeon Hall of Fame

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    Federer's string tension is only 30 sumting. I'm amazed that he can hit the ball the hard on that type of string.
     
    #7
  8. TENNIS_IS_FUN

    TENNIS_IS_FUN Professional

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    Are you sure? I've read on these forums somewhere that he strings it at 52. Im pretty sure that he doesnt stick to one tension, but 30 seems a little bit too low. And for the poll....WHERE ARE ALL THE SAFINATORS??? AM I THE ONLY ONE?
     
    #8
  9. Fedexeon

    Fedexeon Hall of Fame

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    Emm, ya its around 30 sumting.. You can ask other ppl to confirm and see.
     
    #9
  10. Keifers

    Keifers Legend

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    If potential is the difference between where a player is right now and where he could be, then yes, Safin has it all over Fed. But I don't think that's what you meant, is it?

    In terms of raw talent and ability, I think Fed himself has indicated that Safin's are enough to challenge him and all the other top players, and give them real trouble. But like I said, Saf's gap between where his talent and ability could take him and where he has been for most of his career is one big mother.
     
    #10
  11. War Safin!

    War Safin! Professional

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    Safin's just average.
    Actually, no, he's rubbish.
     
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  12. Fedexeon

    Fedexeon Hall of Fame

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    Of course he's not a rubbish. He plays tennis better than most of the people in the world =)
     
    #12
  13. tursafinov

    tursafinov Rookie

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    I'll always stick up for him!

    Well I have a univeral answer to this and am satisfied with pasting it(edited to fit the situation) "Marat loves to hit his shots with beauty. Safin is human because he breaks down and feels the Universe watching his game. It should be noted that he does his finest work with a beautiful girl in his box. Safin when he does it, does it well...at the end of the day i would be more proud of a streaky career that encompassed the two greatest matches ever played, then to dominate everyone and see it just end unsatisfyingly.

    AMEN MARAT WILL RETURN even a fleeting moment in the sun would be worthwhile to see. his skill is immortal.
    thank you."

    It is a shame that we, as fans, aren't rewarded with the artistry of these two more often.
     
    #13
  14. War Safin!

    War Safin! Professional

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    Eh??? How can he possibly be any good???
    He's ranked #72 in the world!!!!
     
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  15. Rhino

    Rhino Legend

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    Thats not strictly true, he was out of the game with an unjury from around August 05 all the way through Feb 06 (approx, I can't remember exactly), which is a very long time. It would be interesting to see Federer cope with such a long time away. Safin is coming back slowly, as he always does. He is very talented and actually next to Federer (and Hewitt) he has the best results of any active player. Should he be fully ready by the Australian Open 07, then watch out. I'd love to see him play Nadal there!
    I'm not sure this thread is particularly useful because of course Federer has the most potential, he possibly the best tennis player that ever lived. Safin, when his game is on, is one of the few players that can trouble him, it's no great mystery, of course he has potential.
     
    #15
  16. pound cat

    pound cat G.O.A.T.

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    Potential means nothing unless it's realized. Otherwise there is nothing but speculation which is a fruitless.
     
    #16
  17. War Safin!

    War Safin! Professional

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    That's a fair post.
    For the injury he had, he couldnt even start to run until December 2005 - given that it's now October, I think the start of the 2007 season is a good platform to be aiming to get into the Top 30.

    Plus, I think 'potential' is something you have when you're first starting off playing.
    'Tehnical proficiency' is something else - Safin has loads of that.
     
    #17
  18. Zaragoza

    Zaragoza Banned

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    Potential? It´s easy to say someone has potential but the problem comes when he has to prove it. Agassi had potential to win 15 majors, not 8. Mc Enroe had potential to win more majors... but for any reason so many players can´t achieve what people expect.
    I think Safin´s game is a bit overrated: he can play some brilliant matches and when he´s on fire he´s nice to see because he has flat shots and hits the ball hard but he´s not a smart player, he tries winners when he shouldn´t try, he makes non sense unforced errors and that´s also part of his game.
    Reading some posts here it seems that just because he beat Fed. in Australia in a close match saving match point, he equals Fed. in potential, that´s ridiculous. Safin played one of the matches of his life and he even had to save match point. Now look at Safin activity and ask yourself if all those guys who beat him have same potential as Safin. Safin has the potential to win 2 Slams, that´s what he did.
    Potential? It´s an easy word to use. A friend of mine had the potential to become a pro and he didn´t, but who cares? He can always say he had potential...
     
    #18
  19. Hardball

    Hardball Rookie

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    Are even serious when you ask this question? Talent wise, Safin is very talented. I would put him in the top 10 easily. Given Safin at his best and Fed at his, I would say Fed will take it in straight.
     
    #19
  20. Duzza

    Duzza Legend

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    30, you're kidding right? I know you are because ppl on this forum say around 50's
     
    #20
  21. Duzza

    Duzza Legend

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    You can't say that. That's too harsh, he is very talented.
     
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  22. dave333

    dave333 Hall of Fame

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    yes, safin reminds me a former alumni here at my school, he was the prez of student body, he took AP calc in freshmen, perfect score on SAT, but ended up going to a no name college. he and safin are the biggest waste of genius or talent i ever saw.
     
    #22
  23. War Safin!

    War Safin! Professional

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    But then, we can apply that logic to David Nalbandian when he played out-of-his-skin against federer in last year's Masters Final in Shanghai.
    Yet people never go on about Nalbandian having hidden depths of talent.
    Why?
    Cos he doesn't that's why. He'll never win a Grand Slam and probably won't ever beat Federer again.

    The same cannot be said for Safin though - he's already been in this exact situation back in mid-to-late 2004 when he dropped right out the top 50.
    Yet, given a run of good performances leading up to January 2005, and look what happened.
     
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  24. Lleytian3

    Lleytian3 Semi-Pro

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    what is with all the bashes on safin? safin does have to potential to be just as good as federer. it is proven by AO. safin at his best and feder at his best it will go 5 sets and probably like 18-16 with fed probably pulling it out.

    his ranking doesnt mean anything, he took out nalbidian at the USO, david was 4th in the world. he still can beat anyone even fed, and yes even lose to anyone too. but thats safin and thats how he plays

    he will make another breakthrough in 07 and return to the top 10, hoping he stays healthy, if he doesnt another year of dropping out of the top 50.

    can he string along matches as he did in the AO final a cuple years ago and win a slam, i think he'll be able to, which slam, who knows, but ill say safin will win at least three more be4 he calls it a career.

    players that are seeded and seeded high hate to see safin who is unseeded, cause he is so dangerous and everyone knows that.
     
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  25. SoBad

    SoBad Legend

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    Safin is the best tennis player living today. He knows how to enjoy life off the court, unlike others who spend leisure time after the match boxed up in their hotel room glued to the TV screen watching their next-round opponent's match and muttering something angrily in German.
     
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  26. MaxT

    MaxT Rookie

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    Both of them are mid-career already. It is not about potential, it is about what has been accomplished, and how much left in the tank.

    So far, Fed. half tank got 9, Safin half tank got 2. Fed is in full speed, Safin is stop and go. Who can go farther? Your call.
     
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  27. MaxT

    MaxT Rookie

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    Enjoying life, while nice, is not a criterion on how good a person is in tennis.
     
    #27
  28. superman1

    superman1 Legend

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    You cannot say Safin has more potential than Fed. Imagine if Federer got stronger and put on a few extra mph on his groundstrokes, and strengthened his backhand. That's certainly a possibility in his future. Safin is a talented mofo, but as I've said before, if Agassi was built like Safin, he would have won 20 Slams. Let's not overpraise the guy until he actually makes use of what he's got.
     
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  29. Tennis Man

    Tennis Man Hall of Fame

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    I think it's all about discipline at this point. Safin got skill to beat Federer but he has no discipline to do it. I think he's too spoiled by the hype and attention surrounding him (also remember where he comes from) and is just not as sharp as Roger, IMHO.
     
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  30. rounick

    rounick Semi-Pro

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    It's not about the results.It's not about the titles.Overall,right now,no one can deny that Fed is the best player around.Talent?Safin is one of the most talented players ever lived.The fact that he doesn't (supposedly) work as hard as the others and yet has achieved so much being injured half of the time,is further proof of his never-ending brilliance.A zoned Safin will beat Fed.Not easily,but he will.And we will get to witness it soon....
     
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  31. War Safin!

    War Safin! Professional

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    Yeah - pretty much anyone who knows their tennis realises this, apart from one or two jerks on the forum (not mentioning any names, of course - you know who you are ;) ).
     
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  32. Rhino

    Rhino Legend

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    Also keep in mind, that the period of time that Safin was out with an injury (7 months), he missed some of the biggest tournaments where he's had his best results - US Open, Paris TMS, Madrid TMS, and the Australian Open - all events where he's a former champion.
    Thats like (or much worse than) having Nadal miss Monte Carlo TMS, Barcelona, Rome TMS, and Roland Garros, - imagine what that would do to his ranking.
     
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  33. Keifers

    Keifers Legend

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    Once again, Rhino, excellent reasoning and insight !!
     
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  34. neo

    neo Banned

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    Actually, results of this poll show that fanatical groupies like you are in minority, and most people here can look at Safin realistically.

    Even in a vote about his potential most people see him for what he is. Not to mention the fact that whatever potential he might have had he certainly did not realize it and in all likelihood never will.

    But don't let the facts stand in the way of faith. :D
     
    #34
  35. oberyn

    oberyn Professional

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    I really hope Marat becomes a more consistent player.

    Still, even in terms of raw talent it's tough to say that he's got more "potential" than Federer.

    At some point in a player's career, potential just means there's a lot of stuff you might have been able to do but didn't.

    Safin's older than Federer and has achieved less. Even if he maximized his potential, Federer's already accomplished some things that (in the Open Era) haven't been done. I'm not comfortable saying that Safin ever had that kind of potential.

    I mean, let's face it Fed's had years with single digit losses, and has just finished a winning 3/4 slams (for the second time) and making it every Slam final.

    For me to say that Safin's got "more potential" would mean I'd have to say that he's capable of winning a calendar slam. I can't say that.
     
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  36. pcpshortbus

    pcpshortbus Rookie

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    i think he does have the potential to be as good or better than federer but he just looses his head and cant play the best he can
     
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  37. neo

    neo Banned

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    This could be said about anything and anyone:
    <insert name here> would be #1 if not for <insert reason here>.

    Safin as he is doesn't have a chance to come anywhere even remotely close to Federer.
     
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  38. pcpshortbus

    pcpshortbus Rookie

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    ya well he beat federer in the australian and i think federer was playing better back then than now because he was so much more agressive
     
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  39. Return_Ace

    Return_Ace Professional

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    more potential than fed ? imo - yes

    chance to unlock that potential ? not likely....



    it's like why bolliteri can say how he thinks rios was one of the most talented person he's met.... just because he doesn't produce the results consistently doesn't mean he hasn't got the potential...

    if he could produce those "moments of inspiration" consistently, then wouldn't he have already surpassed fed and there would be no need for this poll ?
     
    #39
  40. neo

    neo Banned

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    Does everyone who ever beat Federer has "more potential then Federer"? Of course not.

    Many players will look great if you only look at the wins and ignore the loses. To assess player realistically you need to look at all his results. And Safin loses countless number of matches to all sorts of players all the time. That's why he has low ranking. He loses a lot.
     
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  41. gabos

    gabos New User

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    safin is awesomely, unbelievably talented. however, he has perspective problems-- i.e., he has too much of it.
    there are lots of ways that athletes can be "too" smart. i used to say steve young was too smart a quarterback, in that he was smart enough to imagine very distinctly the consequences of failure-- never a good thing in an athlete. (luckily steve got over it.)
    safin doesn't have that problem, but he has the problem (if you want to call it that) of perceiving, too clearly, the relative importance of tennis in the grand scheme. if he wants to party and date models and live life outside of tennis to the fullest, who can blame him? that's what makes him safin. at the same time, i think he's simultaneously totally frustrated by his inability to constantly play at the level he knows he can. he's a complex character.
    i do think safin has at least as much raw talent as federer, but no question fed has been able to harness his own talent consistently in ways no one else has. but safin is the more interesting human being-- i love the fed, but there's no mystery there.
     
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  42. Jesse K.

    Jesse K. Rookie

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    The truth is there is a debate about this because a lot of people recognize the fact that Safin is immensly talented. You don't see this kind of disscusion about Hewit and Fed, or Baghdatis and Fed, etc... I think Safin is an amazing talent but's he's an idiot becuase he doesn't use it. I really think if Safin put his time and efforts into tennnis he would be a true threat to Fed. With that said it's too late for Safin to approach what Fed has done already.
     
    #42
  43. oberyn

    oberyn Professional

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    That's a bit like what I was trying to say.

    Safin's an experienced player. At some point, "potential" and "upside" turns into "what might have been."

    It also includes the ability to find whatever's necessary to maximize one's talents.

    Again, for Safin's potential to surpass that of Federer means that he could exceed the run that Federer's been on.
     
    #43
  44. oberyn

    oberyn Professional

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    I agree that he's an amazing talent. I'm frustrated he hasn't, seemingly, maximized the talent which appears to be there.

    That being said, I'd have to hear him express (genuine) disappointment that he hasn't finished a year #1, won a bunch more slams, etc. before I'll believe that he should be as frustrated with himself as a lot of tennis fans are with him.

    There are a lot of athletes who look back and wish they hadn't spent their younger days completely devoted to the game.

    Not everyone has the personality to have that level of devotion. Marat's got fame and fortune and seems to be having a pretty good time.
     
    #44
  45. Fedubai

    Fedubai Semi-Pro

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    Safin doesn't have more potential than Federer. Potential isn't talent by itself, it's what you could do. At this point Safin is 27 or thereabouts, still lazy. I don't see a lot of potential unless he were to somehow magically develop mental toughness. Even then is anyone arguing that he would have more potential than a 25 year-old Federer that is discarding records with fervor left and right? Don't think so. Not the way things are going at this point.

    Does Safin have more talent? It's debatable. But I don't really think so, because as powerful as Safin's game is, he moves like an elephant. Lumbering, slow, but has power and good technique. Federer has both of those things (not as much power) and has the best footwork in the game. Tennis is natural for Federer. You'll never see Safin improvise or create to the degree Federer does. Safin hits powerful forehands and backhands and has a powerful serve, but does that really mean Safin is more talented than Federer? Federer can do just about anything, but Safin is a little more limited to power. Very accuracte, and can improvise to a degree, but in my opinion Federer can do more.
     
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  46. neo

    neo Banned

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    They just don't inspire such a fanatical following for some reason. Maybe it's the looks. :D
     
    #46
  47. gabos

    gabos New User

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    He's slowed down a lot with injuries and age, but think back to that USO 2000 over sampras-- he had the power and the quicks- he was really fast. And he hit soft drop shots, curved balls ouside-in down the line, hit touch volleys, topspin lobs... that's the safin that makes people wish they could see his best tennis more often, because he really wasn't all about power at all-- he was powerful, and fast, and creative.
     
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  48. neo

    neo Banned

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    Very good description. Compared to Federer, Safin's game looks very one dimensional, and that's when he even has a game, which is very rare.
     
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  49. Virtuous

    Virtuous Rookie

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    Can we be realistic here? Safin is a very talented player who has underachieved(partly due to injury, partly due to distraction) he's not the first of his kind and he won't be the last...but for some reason, i'm guessing because he's charismatic and goodlooking, a 'healthy safin' always gets elevated to some mythical, all powerful giant killer that would be dominating the tour if/and/but (let's just ignore the fact that he never dominated even at his best), blowing federer off the court(again ignoring the fact that the h2h is 7-2 and safin's been the blowee in the matches that were one sided and the others have been close) and has the potential/talent to rise to the top again (bum knee, waning motivation and age be damned)

    I like Marat, and can see him winning one or two more slams before he calls it quits, but these threads.... the baseless speculations and emotional assertions, enough already. They're ridiculous.
     
    #49
  50. Watcher

    Watcher Semi-Pro

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    For the record, I think that Baghdatis has more raw talent than Federer. I think he'll be leveling their head to head before long.
     
    #50

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