The TT Football Club

Discussion in 'Odds & Ends' started by Ross K, Aug 10, 2008.

  1. SempreSami

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    Reus was the most dangerous player on the pitch last night. His movement and passing created all kinds of openings for Germany. Oezil's one footedness really made itself apparent as well.
     
  2. Feña14

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    That is a really impressive stadium! I don't like how the corners aren't filled in with the one Chelsea proposed, also the gap between the pitch and the fans is too big. I'd like the fans to be right on the edge of the pitch, with very steep stands so the players feel like they're on top of them. That has to be intimidating for the opposition.

    I agree it is an amazing opportunity not just for Chelsea, but for London in general. It would be fine by me to keep Stamford Bridge, but the Londoners i've heard speak about the proposed design all have been backing it as they want something unique and different in their City.
     
  3. SempreSami

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    I'd have loved for Chelsea to get Battersea Power Station, if only because I can't believe anyone could want to sit in the bottom tier of the West Stand at Stamford Bridge more than once.
     
  4. Feña14

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    Yeah, it's not the best ground, most Chelsea fans will admit that. From a business point of view it makes alot of sense to move, especially to somewhere as iconic with the potential the site at Battersea has.

    It's just the memories we have of Stamford Bridge that keeps the fans wanting to stay, which is understandable. Those European nights against Liverpool, the parades leaving from the stadium after the titles and Champions League, the Barcelona ties, the FA Cup runs in the 70's, the fans saving the ground in the '90's.

    No doubt Battersea is a stunning site on the river, especially at night. If we were to leave the Bridge, I think that would be the place fans would take to. It's only 3 and a bit miles away so it's not too big a move considering it's a small area.
     
  5. NickC

    NickC Professional

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    Ozil is hardly one-footed. I thought he was the man of the match TBH.
     
  6. PED

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    I thought the same thing. He's been great the entire tourney.
     
  7. Feña14

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    So what we thinking for the big one tomorrow?

    I said a close one probably going to extra time, but England will have to play well. I have a fear that Pirlo will outclass Parker and Gerrard and get too much time and space. Give him that and it could be a long night.
     
  8. SempreSami

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    Assplain why he always looks so awkward when shown on to his right foot then.
     
  9. crosscourt

    crosscourt Professional

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    You could say the same about us. Maybe they will improve but they don't seem fortress like as of old. Germany are very powerful offensively at present. My feeling though is that the system they play is better, or makes them look better, than they are. That is what you want of course, a team better than the sum of its parts. But it does give hope to the others.
     
  10. Feña14

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    They certainly are beatable, if they are to win the tournament they will have to get past Portugal and Spain, two tough games. In their first group game against Portugal it was close, Spain will certainly be favourites for the final too. I picked Germany before the tournament, but Spain are probably still too good for them in the final.

    As for them being like us, I wish! :) I think Pirlo will give Parker and Gerrard a lesson tomorrow. He's so good to watch when he's picking teams apart, later on could be one of those times.
     
  11. crosscourt

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    They are like us in that their back four get isolated. Johnson, Terry and Cole in particular struggle positionally and that is one of the reaosns we defend so deep. Cole used to be able to compensate for lack of positional awareness with a good turn of foot but that is no longer the case. Johnson still can to some extent. For Terry being out of position in open play is just the way he plays.
     
  12. crosscourt

    crosscourt Professional

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    If I was Mourinho I would sell Benzema out of solidarity with Blanc. What a waste of space. I thought France were awful last night. They remind me a lot of Chelsea in recent years. Some good athletes who can do good things if they put their minds to it but petulant and of course no Drogba to save them time after time. Like Chelsea they dont seem to have the will or the ability to defend their midfield. So Spain march on.

    I hgave been struck this tournament by how important Casillas, Sergio Ramos and Xabi Alonso are to Spain. They give them class. Players like Silva, Xavi and Navas dash around like angry dwarfs insisting on the supremacy of their techinique and moaning when the oppo dont roll over. Iniesta is much better than that, just a brilliant player, but even he has a sort of petulance about him. The Madrid contingent give the rest of the side a different perspective. Fabregas too adds a sort of clarity of thought that is impressive.
     
  13. Feña14

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    I wouldn't say Chelsea are lacking the "will" to defend the midfield, it's tough to question the desire of the likes of Essien, Lampard, Ramires etc.. The ability to win control against Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets is always going to be missing though, yeah. They make up for it in different ways, the tackling, covering for everyone else on the field if they're out of position, the fast break etc.. The first 2 against Barcelona came from the midfield and they were high class goals.

    Those are the things that get noticed I suppose, but the bread and butter of a game where you have to win and keep the ball, we do struggle. That's why we really need a player who can do that, even if it's just one to start things off in that area of the pitch. You can buy the likes of Hazard, Hulk, Marin, de Bruyne and go after Falcao etc.. If the engine room in midfield doesn't have a puppet master in there doing some tidy work and linking everything together, the team can never reach it's full potential and it looks disjointed more often than not. The defence are under constant pressure, the forwards and dangerous players don't get the ball in the right area for them to do what they do best etc.. It's a bit worrying the first pre season games are less than a month away and no player like that has even been linked with the club yet.
     
  14. crosscourt

    crosscourt Professional

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    I am really talking about the games I see Chelsea play live. Match after match they let the opposition run or pass through them in midfield. Essien was a brilliant defensive midfielder but is no longer. Lampard never was. Who knows what Ramires is supposed to do. But as I said they do have good athletes who can work hard and when they do and with a lot of luck, as against Barcelona, can do well.

    The players you mention -- Hazard etc -- strike me as more of the same. Mercurial, capable of being very good or absent without leave. Maybe Di Matteo can change the culture of the team. Blanc didnt manage it for France.
     
  15. PED

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    If the game ends up being higher tempo, I wonder how he will fare with less time on the ball. He's not exactly young anymore. At least there is only one of him as opposed to Spain with Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, etc.

    I Thought Silva caused a lot of problems on the French left with Clichy. Clichy terrifies me from a defensive standpoint; Silva must enjoy torching him on a daily basis at Man City training.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2012
  16. Ross K

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    Re Spurs/new manger, etc, more than a few whispers that the real reason for the delay confirming a new manager is actually because we may be about to be taken over by new investors/company, etc. Hope they have a few quid. Also hope they aren't completely unsavory characters.
     
  17. Dave M

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    You coud get lucky and become an arabian oil money plaything or, really lucky and be bought by some icelandic geezers with no actual money!
    Speaking of no money, any thoughts on Rangers, I can not understand how they can not be demoted, they keep telling us they are a new team so why shouldnt they start at the bottom of the pyramid?
     
  18. Feña14

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    Essien certainly isn't what he was, i'd of sold him this summer whilst he still had value. I'd of said use the money and go for M'Vila but his attitude isn't the best, they both have the strength, but you get more passing from M'Vila. Ramires is there for his tackling and pace, nobody can keep up with him so he's very useful breaking out. He seems to play better when he's out wide on the right, it's where he played for Brazil when he first broke into the team 3 years ago and he was at home there.

    Hazard certainly is mecurial, as you say. I think we do need a player like that though, someone like Zola who is a special player. One criticism of us is how predictable we are and we can't break teams down, we need what he can bring. As I say though, without the right midfield behind him he won't shine as much as he is capable of.

    I think Pirlo will be fine :) He never had pace, he started out as an attacking midfielder and although he was talented, he didn't really live up to it. When Ancelotti converted him into a sitting playmaker, he's become one of the greats in that position of his era. He's just a class act who knows his craft.

    Maybe he won't turn up today, but i'm thinking he probably will.
     
  19. Ross K

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    You thought right.:wink:
     
  20. Feña14

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    And the rest of them! :)
    Montolivo was great in the first half, he's always had the talent but he flatters to deceive whenever I see him. Marchisio does what he has done for the last 2-3 years. They have quite a nice team, Italy. Prandelli has done a great job of setting them up in different ways against each team they've played so far, and his team selections have worked out well.
     
  21. Dave M

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    I'm just glad we got rid of that Diamante bloke, i knew in a rubbish hammers side when he was scoring and making goals he wasn't good enough for us, thank kgod we sold him so we could affoard Mcarthy from Blackburn, dodged a bullet getting rid of him.
    Anyone know how badly rooney has to play before one is allowed to mention it?
     
  22. Feña14

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    Haha, I was surprised you did aswell. I don't think you got very much for him either? Bit of a strange one.

    I had him in my fantasy team for awhile, as you say he got alot of assists and his penalties, free kicks and goals from distance were good to watch.
     
  23. Dave M

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    Actually one of the frst penalty takes i haven't minded watching since the mighty left foot of ***** retired, having been brought up on videos of old hammers plaers like Tonka taking pens i have always felt that it should be hit hard enough that should keeper get to it he'll go into the goal too. Noble is getting there now!
    I think he eft for a few hundred grand, which in these days is basically nothing, as you say odd really.
     
  24. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    He was alarmingly poor from his first game. Huffing and puffing, poor touch, crap at heading, bla bla bla. Everything's not his fault, but it's mighty frustrating how he can play so well at Utd, but for the 2nd or 3rd England tournament, he's been pretty wreteched.
     
  25. SempreSami

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    TBF since he's been an established England player, Rooney's not gone in to a major tournament finals as prepared as he'd like to be.

    2006 - Rushed back from a broken foot.
    2008 - Well, we forgot to qualify for that 'un. :p
    2010 - Had a blistering season, but his goalscoring form had dried up following an ankle injury against Bayern.
    2012 - Got himself suspended for the first two games like a numpty.
     
  26. PED

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    Milner and Young and Welbeck. Just not good enough, Carroll and Walcott should have started.

    Rooney was dreadful.

    Ross mentioned something about cole last week and I agree, he just doesn't look like himself, not sure if it's Roy's tactical discipline holding him back or subpar form but he's much brighter when playing for chels.
     
  27. Feña14

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    Yeah his form for Chelsea was very good, I can't imagine a few weeks later it would of dropped off too dramatically.

    Defensively he's been good all tournament, going forward he hasn't done too much. Young played infront of him and didn't have a good Euro's, which probably played a part in that to some degree. That and he had to do alot of defending
     
  28. crosscourt

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    He looks out of sorts for England. I don't think the formation helps that much. Hodgson plays a more rigid version of the set-up that Cappello was criticised for and it is typical that Hodgson isn't criticised for it in the way that Cappello was. England are now described as "better organized" which I suppose is a way of saying "even less able to attack". Nonetheless Rooney doesnt play well and while he is England's best player he is not essential to the team in the way that some of our best players have been in the past -- Beckham for example.

    But look on the bright side. Terry and Cole have almost certainly played their last games for England. For all that they and Lescott defended heroically last night that puts them in the same class as Sweden's defenders and nothing more.

    It is time to look to new and younger players who want to play international football and more importantly want to adapt to its demands. We have had enough of the Premiership tanks who blame everyone else for their inability to compete at this level.
     
  29. Ross K

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    ^^^

    Further to me wanting to see Rooney off at half-time (if not dropped from the actual start), the one I was disappointed not to see last night was Oxlade-Chamberlain. Somebody with his sparkiness and ability to go past players was sorely needed. That said, he may have gone the way of Walcott anyhow, ie, got submerged by what was going on around him and lacking service.

    Looking forward, seems to me quite a few should be gone by the next tornie due to age etc (maybe Gerrard, Terry, Parker), and a few whose form seemed debatable could be under threat (like Young, Milner.) And also perhaps the overly defensive - 'soak it all up like a sponge and attack on the break'-style need to be reveiwed and tweaked (some would argue tweaked in a major way).

    The killer qsn then is: who are these quality replacements? Where are they? Do they exist even (I know most here think we simply don't have such players)?

    Even if it's a struggle and we come up short, seems we need to prioritize locating and developing such young quality... I don't know if they are the answer but players like Wilshire, Walker, Jones, Rodwell, McEachran and the like must be be given serious consideration and prioritization.

    BTW, Fena, what the heck happened to McEachran? I thought he was displaying some real promise a year or two back...
     
  30. Feña14

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    I think getting rid of the likes of Gerrard, Terry, Cole and the more senior players who won't be at the World Cup is one of the ways you could go. The defence this tournament has been fantastic though really, where would we of been without them? We could easily of lost to Ukraine, they had that much of the ball. We could of lost last night 3-0 without Johnson, Lescott and Terry. France scored where Gerrard didn't get out in time, then 2 against Sweden where we had a 5 minute lapse. Apart from that we didn't concede.

    New players certainly do need to start coming in, but if they're playing the same way the 4 midfielders and the forwards have at this tournament, the defence is going to take one hell of a battering again. I'd prefer the experienced heads who really know what they're doing back there than throwing in the likes of Jones and Smalling and having them get hammered.

    Cahill would probably of started if it wasn't for the broken jaw. He's only 26 and is starting to carve out a decent reputation, he's someone who has to come in i'd of thought. Walker was also missing through injury, surely he would of been first choice. A defence of Walker, Terry, Cahill and Cole is the right mix for me personally. You get 2 experienced heads and 2 younger players just starting their England careers. Take out all the experience and it would be a mess.

    Ancelotti played him a little bit, Villas-Boas prefered Romeu so he got sent out on loan to Swansea. Chelsea had an agreement with Rodgers that he would get to play a bit of football there, the manager used to be at Chelsea and he knew the kid so it sounded like a good move for everyone. Unfortunately he didn't get to play, it was pretty poor from Swansea as alot of teams inquired about him where he would of got playing time to improve. Why send youngsters away from the club for 6 months to sit on someone elses bench? Bolton wanted him too and looking back that probably would of been a better move, Coyle looked after Sturridge and helped him improve, i'm sure he could of done the same.

    It's certainly hurt his development, but it's also hurt the managers reputation in some ways. The next young, talented player who is looking to cut his teeth and go out on loan, will he want to do it at a club where Rodgers is at? Probably not.
     
  31. crosscourt

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    But when you say the defence has been magnificent you mean that they have thrown themselves at the ball, competed as hard as they can, and made brave and demanding tackles. They have a certain defiance. I agree that they have. But that is Premiership defending not international defending and I take those things as a given. God knows Sweden's little known defenders do it better than we do, let alone Germany and Spain should they have to. The point is they rarely have to because they don't defend that way. International defenders are able to take and monopolise the ball defensively to nullify attack and to support their midfield. It is true that players like Parker are outclassed at this level and can't defend the back four as well as they should. But our defenders need too much support from their midfield. That is one of the reasons why we can't attack with enough fluency -- our midfield line has to sit too deep on top of a very deep back four.

    Terry and Cole in particular concede far too much ball, as they always have done, and can't retain it well enough to play high enough up the pitch. They should go now, thinking themselves lucky that players of such limitations have faired so well for so long. They are the Pam Shrivers of international football.

    At present England's defenders are a mess. Will it get better in the short term? Who knows. But while we think that what the players did last night is international defending it cannot. Hodgson needs to be clear about what he needs from young defenders coming through and then see who is prepared to step up and play the international game. A lot depends on Hodgson. His team hasn't played well this tournament. Now he needs to show a clear lead.

    cc
     
  32. Meaghan

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    Was patrotic all the way and wanted us to win but when Italy won i was happy for them as they completely ran the show and deserved it.

    We cannot pick players who exemplify the premiership 'way' and not play to those strengths. We have a few good players who are comfortable on the ball but when you dont pick the likes of adam johnson over the energetic milner it shows a certain mentality.

    There is a lot of talk of this comp being positive but i dont see it like that, it just reinforces the idea of being happy with mediocrity. I would rather we played with some zest and went out in the group stages.

    I admire Lescott and Terry's back to the wall defensive qualities but i agree with cc above.
    We cannot have a fantastic premiership product and take certain qualities into these comps and hope to get further than the quarters.
     
  33. Meaghan

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    ^^^Mascherano plays centre half for Barca.........

    Another thing, Hodgson.......why did everyone vilify Capello for being set in his ways yet big Roy is ok to play a rigid 4-4-2 ?
     
  34. Ross K

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    Ala what happened with Germany a few years back, IMO what we need isn't anything along evolutionary lines, what we need is a REVOLUTION! Sadly, I suspect Hodgson isn't the man to oversee such a shake-up.
     
  35. Ross K

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  36. NickC

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    I thought England were quite poor yesterday, simply not good enough to contend at a higher level. Their passing through the midfield was suspect, they allowed Italy to settle and worst of all, they gave Pirlo (who was the best player on the pitch by a long way) miles of space to play in. They were tactically naive and Italy were by and far the better side. Thank god the better team won; Germany would have made England look like amateurs.
     
  37. crosscourt

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    I agree with some of what he says, but in too many of these articles it is the manager's fault and never that the players aren't good enough. The same group of players, with some changes and some evolution, have played at more or less the same level for six years or so under different managers. They dont get much better or much worse.
     
  38. Feña14

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    Most English defenders play like that, looking at the players who are coming through, they are cut from the same cloth really. Cahill is like a poor mans Terry, but with pace. Jones is seen as someone very similar to Terry. Shawcross was a young player who was seen as a possible wild card for this squad, he's a tough tackling defender out of the Terry mold too.

    Watching Spain, Pique just seems to flick the ball out of danger to one of their midfielders who then look after it between them.

    In principle it's a great idea to get some nice centre backs who keep the ball and pass it along nicely, it won't be happening for awhile though I wouldn't of thought. Maybe Rodwell, he's been touted as a player who could drop back from defensive midfield into a centre back. His injury record is awful though.

    Terry is pretty good on the ball for Chelsea, but that's because Chelsea are better than most of the teams they play. One thing you get at the top teams is the players can find space and the defence always have a number of options to move it forward. Chelsea keep it slightly better than England and our defence looks calm and solid. I wouldn't say England play deep just because of the defence, the number of times the midfield made mistakes and Lescott/Terry had to work harder than any International defence should was far too high.

    Did they looked raggedy at times? Absolutely, if the 6 more advanced players than the defence are giving the ball away and not doing the basic things, that's what the defence has to resort to. I'm sure Spain and Germany would look just as desparate if they had our mindfield/forwards in front of them.
     
  39. crosscourt

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    But there is no reason why our players can't play better than that. You mention Piqué. Now a Barcelona and Spain regular. Didn't get a game at United. Mentalities and requirements are very different and the national manager has to say now what he wants to see from emerging players and it is for the emerging players to show they can do it. We need players who can defend by keeping possession of the ball rather than conceding it in the manner of Terry and Cole. And it isn't just a question of passing the ball. They also need to be able to run the ball out of defence and commit opposing players defensively. The idea that Terry can do this at the level we are talking about seems to me to have no foundation in the evidence. But of course life is easy against teams that aren't very good.
     
  40. Feña14

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    We need to change, no doubt about that. I think everyone has been saying that for years, but we seem as far away from that as ever unfortunately.

    Terry is actually good at bringing the ball out defence, he either brings it up and gives it to someone like Mikel who sets things off. He is also excellent at putting the ball over the top. There was a goal against Sunderland a year ago where he brought it up, then clipped it with the outside of his foot to Cole, who beat a few players and scored. It was goal of the month on Match of the Day. He did it a few times against Ukraine this tournament aswell.

    I believe he could do it at this level with different players infront of him. He would be in the German team i'd of thought. The same could be said for Pique not being able to play his usual game if he had Parker and Gerrard in front of him instead of Xavi and Iniesta.

    Cole also does it better for Chelsea when he has Mata infront of him, he did it well with Malouda also. Young is a nonentity defensively, he was a turnover machine aswell this tournament.

    I agree that bringing the ball out of defence is very important, more so than ever these days. Conditions dictate if you can do that though.
     
  41. PED

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    Well put Fena re who plays in front of you. Cole was screwed playing behind young, don't know why young didn't get subbed.

    Should be some tasty semis this week, I think Germany takes Italy, Italy look good against lesser opposition but the Germans have too much game. Should be nice ith a more aggressive Italian team than in the past.

    I'm torn on the other game, I would like to see Portugal win but would rather see a rematch of the 2008 final so I'll be pulling for Spain. Can't wait to see Ronnie put the Spain back four under pressure.

    Finally, after his comments on Saturday, nasri wins the golden nob award for the tourney. ;)
     
  42. Feña14

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    I think we have some great semi finals lined up, hopefully Germany and Italy will be as good as the semi final from the '06 World Cup. Whoever wins that one I hope wins the final. Crazy to think about Italy possibly winning it with the scandals going on at home! It will be the third time they've done that if they do go all the way.
     
  43. Ross K

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    Well, it's both. However, the depressing thought for me is Hodgson, with his inflexibility re his formation and preferred system, palpably seems to me to be NOT who who we need right now.
     
  44. Feña14

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    I think he probably got his squad wrong more than anything. He did have alot of injuries which was sad, but he did leave some fit players behind. He took Henderson and Downing for instance, why? Johnson should of gone for sure.

    As I said, get Cahill, Walker, Wilshere, Oxlade-Chamberlain and Johnson in the team and things should start to improve a bit. There are then players like Smalling, Jones, Sturridge, Bertrand, Cleverley and Rodwell who can be brought in gradually.

    In 4 years we could then be looking at a team like: Hart, Walker, Cahill, Jones, Bertrand, Wilshere, Rodwell, Johnson, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Rooney and Sturridge. There could be Butland, Smalling, Cahill, Cleverley, McEachran, Walcott, Welbeck on the bench. Play it right and bring the right players through gradually, 4 years could be a decent tournament.
     
  45. crosscourt

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    I have to say that whenever I watch Chelsea, and it is quite often, Cole gives the ball away and gets caught out of position time after time. As for Terry bringing the ball out well, not in the matches I see he doesn't. I missed the Sunderland game.
     
  46. crosscourt

    crosscourt Professional

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    I agree -- it's some of both. Hodgson doesn't give me any confidence either. What is really odd is the idea that the team plays only one formation. Most Premiership teams at the top end play several formations for each of defence and attack in each game and will change that depending on who they play in the league -- Arsenal one week, Stoke the next -- and when they play in Europe.

    Listening to some of the punditry it still seems that many don't understand why possession is important. They criticise Spain for the few goals they score "for all their possession" without looking to see how few goals they concede.
     
  47. NickC

    NickC Professional

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    East Coast, USA. Formally Tucson, AZ
  48. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    It's just my preference, but I've never been a 4-4-2 man... it's why I quite liked Hoddle actually when he was England manager, and also why I would've loved Rodgers at Tottenham, and one reason why Wenger has been so good... anyhow, this definitely concerns me about Roy Hodgson.

    I do concede though that it is as much about the players as actual systems.
     
  49. crosscourt

    crosscourt Professional

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    I found this quite funny. In France last week I asked people what they thought about Wenger. The response that came back from a number of them was, essentially, "we don't like him, he is basically a German and too rigidly disciplined..."

    I suppose he does come from Strasbourg...
     
  50. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    The enigmatic (or should that be 'shambolic'?) situation re Spurs and a new manager has at least been enlivened by the now public news that Sigurrdson is close to being snatched from Liverpool's hands. Of course what with the longest protracted deal in history to sign the Ajax skipper, Vertonghen, STILL not resolved, and with us having actually signed NOBODY, I'm not taking anything for granted until it's signed and sealed. But with Chelsea and Arsenal having already got a few players in (another one for AFC today I believe), we're way behind.

    BTW, July 1st is the day I've been reliably informed who our manager is will be made public. As my info derives from the same sources who gave me great info re Redknapp being sacked weeks before it happened, I'm earmarking that day to finally be put out of my misery. And FWIW, the rumours are also still circulating that we are being taken over by a new company, investors, etc.

    Whatever, I fully expect it's going to be a killer announcement... Guardilola on a 3-year deal and we've also secured 5 of Barca's first team!:)
     

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