Discussion in 'Odds & Ends' started by Ross K, Aug 10, 2008.
I agree totally with this. Hard to compete against unlimited petro dollars at City & Chelsea.
Hmm, that's true in some ways. You have to look at some of the players City and Chelsea have, key members of the team that Arsenal don't have, that aren't based on money. Look at the problems they have with keepers, Hart and Cech aren't at their clubs because of oil money, they are because of scouting. In defence, Kompany cost City £6 Million, whilst Wenger spent around £10 Million on Mertesacker, Ivanovic cost Chelsea £9 Million for instance.
In midfield, Arsenal could do with players like Lampard and the qualities Ramires has. Lampard was there before Abramovich and Ramires was £15 Million, certainly not out of the price range of Arsenal, especially when you think of the steel they have needed for years in the middle to protect their more creative players.
There is also the question of just how much money does he have to spend? Arsenal say the money is there, but the manager chooses not to spend it out of principle. Who knows if that's true or not, what is true is that the players he has spent money on, and fairly big money at that, aren't value for money (around £30 Million spent on Podolski, Santos and Gervinho). Compare that with Chelsea who got Ba, Oscar and Cahill for that sum.
And then there's Torres at 50 million Sorry couldn't resist.
IIRC, you guys spent north of 100 million this past summer on players but I think you got your money's worth on Hazard at the very least-he was the most expensive one. Oscar, I'm still not sold on but he's so young and has plenty of time to blossom.
I also remember that even the US press had a feature article before last year's Manc derby that these were the two most expensively assembled teams in history, so City def will spend big, think about what they're paying Ya Ya.
Arsenal's problem is not that they pay big transfer fees but they pay too much weekly salary to players that don't deserve it, cough....Bendtner,.....cough, Arshavin. We've made some poor decisions and we're paying the price-it's all our own making I fully admit.
BTW, I'm having a dig here, I'm genuinely curious: after watching Ba this year, it makes me feel sorry for Torres and the crap he's endured, both came into Chelsea as goal machines, especially Ba over the last two years but Ba has only 6ish goals since January and we know Torre's record. It makes me wonder if the team is the problem instead of Torres or Ba-any thoughts on that?
On a lighter note, just saw today's Gigg's backheel fail leading to the Milner goal. I guess unlike Beckham, Gigg's has dropped a level....
I'm certainly with you on Torres! That one really is a shocker.
As for the wages at Arsenal, that is certainly an issue. I found it interesting how Walcott had a great first half to the season when he was playing for a new contract or a move and a pay day. Once he signed up, his form has dipped alarmingly didn't RvP say the reason for moving was his desire for trophies, but he didn't have faith in Wenger to construct a team at Arsenal that would give him them? That certainly has to start ringing alarm bells.
I just think that Wenger has been very reactive in the market over the last few years, instead of being the one to go out and get what he needs, he leaves it to the last minute and takes whatever is available without much though. I remember when he went on a spree on the final day of the window and got Arteta, Benayoun, Mertesacker and Santos, which isn't really the way to do things. Same with the goalkeeper situation, I see them linked with Casillas, Reina and Begovic.. each costing between £15 and 20 Million. From the outside, it just seems there is no real plan for what he wants to do.
We did spend quite alot last summer, in the long run I think it will be fantastic. Oscar has the potential to be one of the best players on the planet in the next few years, whilst Hazard will work out either way. I've said before that I can see him going to Madrid before too long, so we will probably make a profit on him. Hopefully he gives us a few good years before then though.
As for Ba, it's an interesting one! I come back to it, but it's a midfield issue for me. He's a lethal finisher, Mata, Oscar and Hazard in behind will create if you let them. The problem is that the creative trio don't get the ball early enough, or in the right areas of the field, more often than not they have to come back and pick it up deep. It all stems from a lack of domination in midfield, aswell as a playmaker in there who can read the game a few steps ahead, and can make the passes to unlock it all.
It only takes one area of the team to not click with the rest for things to become disjointed, that's where I think the heart of the problem is.
Almost feels too easy beating those twats at the swamp now, will be difficult to see them borrowing our trophy for a year but will get it back eventually hopefully to go along with another FA Cup!
Almost like role reversal today, Fergie set Utd up for a draw and Bobby Manc was going for the throat-I wish he would do that every week.
Nice work from Aguero. Think Utd should have started Cleverly in the middle.
Rooney is usually only that non existent when he pulls on an England shirt. He needs a change of scenery I think, PSG beckons.
I think City and Chelsea in the FA Cup is the best tie possible. Everyone seemed to want City v Utd, but the last two winners of the cup, Chelsea's recent history in the competition, our Wembley record.. combined with City being a bogey team for us, it's the more interesting match up I think.
Interesting earlier comments H and F ^^^
Related back to my lot, our long-running problem is Levy's deep, almost pathological aversion to shelling out the money and getting a bargain. I think it was the signing of Bentley for way too much some years back that really p***** him off. If, somehow, he can manage to trust in AVB to not squander the squids Redknapp style, I have some belief in AVB's ability to sign the right players for us.
FWIW, IMO he may well want to start with Stocker and Sahla at Basle... and I'm not actually joking. I know I've said it before but it was struck me such force I'll repeat it again... they (and the whole Basle side) were playing exactly like I think AVB wants us to play.
Side-note: the signing who has really impressed me and seems to be like their missing link is Coutinho at Liverpool... I'm hoping AVB can exhibit similar foresight to Rodgers and sign such a promising player and one who fits into precisely what the manager wants re the team and their style of play.
Heres a fun link with (Scottish) Gaelic commentary!
Levy isn't perfect, but I think he has done a good job for Tottenham in general. I know he drives a hard bargain when it comes to selling players gone are the days of the teams at the top coming and poaching the likes of Carrick, just when you look like breaking into the top 4. He sounds like the last person you would want to try and sort out a deal with, that's good for Spurs!
As for the two Basel players you mentioned, i've not really seen them. I know you said they are continuing to play the style of football that served them well in the Champions League of late, even after selling their best two players. It sounds like they have a good scouting/youth system to be able to replace them. They have shown in the past that they are willing to sell, if they fit the style AVB wants to play then it sounds good.
Unbelievable... no one commented on Malaga vs Borussia?
This may have been the greatest comeback on Champions league match in the last ten years or more
Absolutely barmy finish and horrific officiating all round. What a game!
I kept tabs on Madrid-Gala during one of my classes today. Mental second half.
I've only seen the highlights, the defending champions going out in the group stages render this years tournament null and void
Serves me right really, both games looked to have alot of drama.
I had only heard of the Dortmund-Malaga result from a friend in class who had been getting updates from his brother via SMS. Just caught the highlights and saw what happened.
Also, have you seen this piece of crap Chelsea are going to walk out in next season?
A blatant rip-off of Brazil's away kit from 2002..
It was crazy, the officiating always manages to contribute
I thought Eboue had the goal of the night, until I saw Drogba's! He is looking as lean as ever, and still finishing like that. We could do with him still.
Haha, that has way too much white. I'm hoping it's just a training shirt though. The other one i've seen doing the rounds has a bit of yellow on it, but it's just as ugly as the one you found.
I think we've been spoilt this year, the blue and gold looked amazing.
My reaction from seeing Drogba's goal
He's still got it! Sneijder's goal was great too, nutmegged Varane and made him look like a fool.
Yeah it seems like we'd be trying to emulate the Brazil of 2002. We can't even touch them let alone try to play football like them. What a team that was all those years ago.
Horrible officiating is norm in sport these days, it's corrupted football, basketball here in the states, the NFL, etc... It seems like the first ones on the pay these days are the refs, and nobody says a thing because there's too much money at stake.
Haha! Nice image. I thought Lewandowski's goal was great too, the little flick by Reus and the way he rounded the keeper was nice. 4 great goals in 2 games is pretty good going!
Ahh yes, the famous 2002 Brazil team. They were lucky, England would of had them if Ronaldinho hadn't fluked that free kick
Lewandowski is awesome, but Reus is just something else, and he's so young too! Amazing talent.
That midfield Germany's got, so much talent, Gundogan (who bossed the first half today...I hear Madrid are in on him to play with Sahin and Khedira in the midfield when Alonso's contract is up. I'd love him at Chelsea), Ozil, Khedira, Reus, Muller, the Bender brothers, Draxler, Schurrle....the list goes on. Probably a better midfield than Spain, I reckon.
It's certainly up there, they have Holtby too. Maybe being half English will count against him though
That's precisely why I didn't put him on the list. It's his downfall. But he doesn't play like someone from the Island, which is a good thing.
Who would your pick be off that list for Chelsea to come in and sign? If Mou doesn't come, perhaps Lowe will once the World Cup is over?
Re yesterday's games, oh maaan, looks like I missed some exciting football yesterday... :cry:
Re Holtby, strong rumours are he's been carrying an injury for ages. He's not being played in his natural more central role - where he has shone previously - with AVB doing things like playing him out wide (all down to the necessity to cover other injured players, which in turn is all down to the lack of depth/Levy's avoidance of signings), which may explain why he hasn't set WHL alight thus far.
Re Chelsea's next season kit... so we're already getting these together now? Wow. Anyhow, is it that awful? Whatever, it's nowhere near the worst offenders. In fact, despite my Barca leanings as it were, this one here isn't exactly fetching on the eye, is it? Urgh... ...
Yeah, that kit didn't do much for me either. It always reminded me of 10 or so years ago, when teenage girls who were ginger would dye their hair blonde to try and fool everyone. When it started to grow out and the ginger roots starting showing again, that's pretty much what that kit is modelled on I think
In all seriousness, it's not particularly nice to look at, but I believe it's based on the colours of the Catalan flag.
Nah, it's just the 2006/7 kit having faded in the sun.
They're going to have a yellow/red striped kit representing the Catalan flag next season, I believe.
Pfft! I can still see Messi rolling around on the floor after running into Del Horno to get him sent off wearing that kit. It was the first time I really saw him other than highlights, not the best first impression.
Yeah the one i've seen doing the rounds is red and yellow, it certainly looks better than the "ginger trying to stop the bullying" inspired kit I know Barca are keen to promote charity, but surely they should of just limited it to Unicef.
That was 2005/6 in the classic luminous 'are you sure you're not a matchday steward?' kit.
Prolly the first time I saw Messi play and thought "cor, that kid could be good".
I think Messi probably deserved that for what came later in the game I think he should get the hair back, he looks like an extra off Shameless, it's a good look!
Yep, first time of seeing him for me aswell. I heard alot about him, the hype around him was huge so I was expecting alot. He wasn't great that game (7 years later and he's still trying to score against Chelsea, afterall!), but yeah, he's more than lived up to the high expectations.
Bit of a cakewalk then for the mega-impressive germans last night... Messi coming on seemed to galvanise Barca... really looking forward to the semis now!... oo, who's going to win it this year then? What's everyone thinking?... er, and do we want a RM-Barca semi or final?
Re Spurs tonight, interesting comments here from AVB that echo what I was saying...
"This Basel team was probably the best team I have ever seen at White Hart Lane," Villas-Boas said afterwards, entirely fairly. "They are a good team who play great football and were well organised. All the recognition to a top opponent we had to play here tonight. They created more chances than us, they were best side tonight, we easily recognise that. They could have won the game, but the positive thing is we managed to get back into the tie. Had it finished 2-0 that would probably mean our task would be very, very difficult in Basel."
Can't see us going through TBTH.
I hope Madrid win it. I'll win a nice dinner out if they do!
Nice article, really nice gesture from Mourinho.
Glad those two insane penalty decisions didn't cost us overall. How the one was given today, I don't know.
Fingers crossed Spurs and Newcastle can bring it back, although it's not looking good at the moment.
That is beyond class. My already high level of respect for Mou just squared. What an amazing gesture!
Pfft! Talk about letting the side down. I was looking forward to getting Spurs in the semi's, nothing like a free passage to the final
Poor Spurs! Demps did all he could but even at the end it still wasn't good enough!
He did what he could, ah well. So Chelsea are the last English team standing in Europe again this year, it's becoming a bit of a tradition!
It was nice to see Rafa racing to Switzerland after the earlier game, even if he did only make it for the penalties. I'm guessing he was doing some homework for the potential semi final opponents. Notice how he's grown the goatee back too? Hopefully it can be a lucky mascot for the last month of the season
Traveling last night so wasn't able to see our loss. Going out on pens to the team that beat Munich and Man U I think last year is no disgrace I reckon. Glad Dempsey had a good game (too rare though actually.) Anyhow, it all helps to concentrate the mind I suppose on what is really the absolute priority - CL qualification.
You can never really tell which way it will go, maybe it will inspire them in the League, maybe they will be feeling sorry for themselves after the missed opportunity. It will be interesting to see which way it goes, it's time for AVB to earn his money
As for losing to the team who beat Bayern, hopefully that's a trend that continues for the rest of the season! Maybe missing out on the top 4 to the team who beat them in the final last year?
Interesting from Miguel Delaney on ESPNFC
One of the main factors in how fast this apparent cycle moves, however, is another individual force: Pep Guardiola. His departure from Barcelona has resulted in a drop-off in intensity among Lionel Messi & Co.; his impending arrival at Bayern has brought an excitement for the long term there.
Somewhat ironically, though, this clash will only further condition perceptions of both reigns. Should Barca win, it will arguably slightly diminish Guardiola's reign there given the manner in which the team has maintained its excellence, but also give him a grand objective at the German club.
Should Bayern win, it will further prove Guardiola's importance to that Catalan cycle but arguably take away some of the urgency of his next job.
This should be a great match, if they get through, Bayern v Real would be a great final.
I agree, we've already seen Dortmund v Madrid in this years competition so I was hoping for something different. Dortmund v Barcelona would of been great, maybe that will be the final.
Dortmund-Barcelona would have been a try-out for Hummels, Subotic and probably Gotze, and then upon loosing to them (or beating them) they'd turn around and drop 80 million plus someone like Pedro or Villa for the trio.
Shame Sahin can't play, he'd show Madrid what they've been missing this season. He'll be fire next season though, can't wait to see him sit in alongside Alonso and Khedira. Madrid's midfield next season is going to be absurd.
Barca-Bayern is going to be lights-out, no doubt about that.
In all reality though we'll most likely see an El Clasico final and upon finally conquering Barcelona and getting Madrid their desired Decima, Mouinho will walk out on them and talk a nice stroll down the road to Chelsea and stay there for the rest of his career.
It could happen! Like when Inter beat Bayern in the Bernabeau, only for Mourinho to leave for Madrid
Latest i've heard is that if he comes, he wants to bring Khedira. I wonder what stance Madrid will have on selling to Mourinho, he always likes to bring former players along with him, but his old teams don't like it.
I only caught the last 18 mins, but it really looked like Norwich got a raw deal at the Emirates today.
Definitely home team decisions. It almost felt like an Old Trafford finish.
I thought it was a definite pelanty, everyone is up in arms that the linesman called it instead of the ref but it was a blatant tug of the shirt. Wish they'd call that more often.
Either way, the beginning of our week which ends with us 7 points above Spurs.
Not sure about that but the Everton game should be tricky.
Not only Khedira, I'd also like him to bring Shain, Varane and Ozil.
Ronnie wouldn't be bad either!
The papers are always linking players now it looks pretty certain Mourinho is coming back. Benzema, Higuain, Ronaldo, Khedira, Modric.. They were saying Mourinho wanted to bring Materazzi with him as his assistant. Imagine that pairing? Mourinho and a fascist! I would of thought that would put an end to the player power
I think Paolo rather enjoyed this Sunderland goal, don't you?
Aguero should have been sent off, and Torres should have been given a penalty.
Aguero is disgusting, that's the worst i've seen this season. McManaman's tackle against Newcastle was nothing compared to that two footed, studs first stomp. I've felt sorry for him in the past, he's not the biggest and defenders have roughed him up. Next time he's smashed into and rolling around, i'll have a little smile to myself.
As for the penalty on Torres, yes absolutely. Torres was ahead of Kompany and he pulled his shirt up, making no attempt to play the ball. Penalty and red card, to go with the Aguero red card and it probably would of turned out differently.
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