The TT Football Club

Discussion in 'Odds & Ends' started by Ross K, Aug 10, 2008.

  1. Russeljones

    Russeljones G.O.A.T.

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    Friends of mine and I myself (we support different clubs) have the idea that Guardiola is dismantling the culture of FCB. What is your perspective on that?
     
  2. Feña14

    Feña14 Legend

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    Agreed, very good player, but nobody is bigger than the club. Especially one as big as Bayern.
     
  3. PED

    PED Legend

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    Jose must be worried, he's already taking pot shots at Wenger...and less than a week after we won the World Cup ;)
     
  4. Feña14

    Feña14 Legend

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    Haha, i'm loving what Arsenal have been doing! Still think they're a striker short though, much like we were last year (and could well be again this time round).

    Don't really think Khedira is the right player to be going after though, Schneiderlin (or Bender) would be the defensive foil for Ramsey that they need imo. Plus having Ramsey fit for the whole season would be nice :)

    Khedira would be perfect in a midfield 3 imo. Matic, Fabregas and Khedira could be the new Lampard, Makelele, Essien. The 4-2-3-1 had too many limitations for us last season, with that midfield we'd win every battle in England, on paper, plus there would be extra space for the front 3, as opposed to front 4, they kept getting in each others way last season.
     
  5. Toni Kroos left as Bayern wouldn't raise his wages. Their reasoning was that if they did then Neuer, Muller etc would all want a wage rise.

    You can't be paying loads of players £250 000 a week.


    Anyway what are your guys predictions for the leagues.

    Eng: Chelsea
    Spn: Barca
    Ger: Bayern
    Ita: Roma
     
  6. Feña14

    Feña14 Legend

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    Italy will be interesting! With what's going on at Juventus and the possibility of losing both Pogba and Vidal, it could be wide open.

    My predictions:

    Man City
    Real Madrid
    Bayern
    Napoli
     
  7. Russeljones

    Russeljones G.O.A.T.

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    I think Arsenal will end up 5th this season. Liverpool is the weak link that can let them in, though.
     
  8. Noleberic123

    Noleberic123 Legend

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    My predictions are

    Eng: Chelsea
    Spn: Barca
    Ger: Bayern (no other choice)
    Ita: Juventus
     
  9. PED

    PED Legend

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    Help is on the way in the form of Super Mario. Wow, if that happens, not sure what to think.....

    Nice having Van Gaal in the PL to go along with Jose. Amazing the influence they can have from the sidelines.

    I rate Khedira but not sure he's worth the money. For 20 mill and in the last year of his contract, I'd rather have Kroos.(then again Kroos gets 250 a week vs 150 for Khedira)

    I'm thinking Liverpool are going to have a hard time without Suarez. Didn't care for him but what a player. I don't think the results will be like at Spurs when they sold Bale but should be worth watching.

    Van Gaal should make a difference but they've got ALOT of spots that need filling. Interesting to see how Roo responds to him.
     
  10. norbac

    norbac Legend

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    I think 3rd, but there is still time in the transfer window. This will be a one and done for Liverpool in the Champions League, don't see them making top 4 next year.
     
  11. Feña14

    Feña14 Legend

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    Giroud is a really good back up striker imo, he'll do a great job and thrive in that role. He's not quite good enough to be the main man in a title winning side though. Balotelli is a wild card :) he could be incredible, he could fail miserably and bring all kinds on unwanted drama, who knows!

    Yeah Khedira is slightly over priced, considering his contract situation. He's a great player though, my only concern is that he wants £200,000+ a week. He's not on that level.
     
  12. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    easy to explain.

    It is a team artificially backed up by banks, who still make money with the President´s company and the government, who has blinded their eyes in front of their debt.
     
  13. Feña14

    Feña14 Legend

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    Pretty much! Kroos and Rodriguez will probably set them back close to £100 Million, they also seem to want Falcao, so could well be £150 Million.

    Not bad going :)
     
  14. Russeljones

    Russeljones G.O.A.T.

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    Yeah, expect Rogers to blame the owners.
     
  15. Russeljones

    Russeljones G.O.A.T.

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    Manchester United are not just going to be playing Champions League football next year, they will be contenders for the trophy. This is probably why top players will sign for them in this transfer window regardless of last year's finish.

    Liverpool is going to be the polar opposite. Participants without hope to progress who will most likely not feature next year. Really going to struggle with this transfer policy. I won't be surprised if Brendan Rogers has a falling out with the owners.

    Manchester City - going to be really interesting to see how they cope with the FFP restrictions imposed on them and what they do to balance the books for the 2015-16 season. People like Nasri and Yaya are on way too much money for what they contribute.

    Chelsea will also have FFP problems if they don't do very well on the pitch. They basically avoided City's fate by winning the Champions League. This one-time financial injection is not a solution, however, and I can see Roman pulling all the stops to secure approval for a Stamford Bridge expansion. Without that, they'd be left behind the Manchester Clubs, and possibly, Arsenal in the not-so-distant future.

    Tottenham. Do we have to say anything about them? They charge almost 2k pounds for season tickets. Complete shambles of a club, if you ask me. Ridiculous chairman (Levy) that can't let his managers do their work and seemingly insists to be the one that shapes the team. Yeah Roman bought Sheva, but he had the cash to splash. Tottenham Hotspur are not exactly in the same position. An exciting young coach this season, but he won't call the shots, will he?
     
  16. Feña14

    Feña14 Legend

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    For the last few seasons, players have been sold for pretty decent money (Mata, De Bruyne, Luiz etc..). The transfer spending has pretty much been even in terms of ins and out, so that's not really a problem. The wages could be, but there was a bit Samsung deal after the Champions League, the kit sponsor is in the top 5 richest deals (way behind Real Madrid and Man Utd, but still good compared to everyone else). The Gasprom sponsorship is worth big money.

    Others may well do better, it seems likely, but Chelsea are doing enough to not be left behind.
     
  17. Russeljones

    Russeljones G.O.A.T.

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    Like I said, after winning the Champions League, Chelsea posted a profit of just over 1 m for the first time during Abramovich's reign. Wages and players bought this year will not improve Chelsea's prospects of handling the FFP rules. Especially with an investigation, which I think is still going on, concerning abuse of the player ownership by 3rd parties.
     
  18. norbac

    norbac Legend

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    As it stands I've got Chelsea winning the league with City and Arsenal behind. United grab fourth and Everton fifth. Liverpool miss out at sixth.
     
  19. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Just curious...what´d be the average ticket price for a top premier club? a seasonal bonus?
     
  20. Feña14

    Feña14 Legend

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    Average? Between £40 and £50.
     
  21. SempreSami

    SempreSami Hall of Fame

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    I saw Schalke for €31 last year B^)
     
  22. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    and the seasonal? or just Champions league bonus?
     
  23. Feña14

    Feña14 Legend

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    Can only speak for the ones i'm aware of.

    Chelsea is £595, Liverpool is £710 and Arsenal £995.

    Different clubs do different things in terms of Champions League, FA Cup and away games.
     
  24. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Ok, I think those prices are average.of course, depending on what they include.How comes Chelsea is the cheapest? maybe they don´t need ticket money because of Abramovich?
     
  25. Feña14

    Feña14 Legend

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    Money means alot :) with FFP you have to show your spending isn't totally reckless compared to the income. You can still operate at a loss, but if there's a big gap between the two figures, you've got problems. A rich owner doesn't mean alot these days, he can't dip into his own pockets and bail the club out anymore.

    Chelsea is the cheapest for three main reasons. The first reason is that Abramovich has always said that he won't raise the prices for fans as they're the heartbeat of the club. The second is that Arsenal have an amazing new stadium which needs paying for. The third is that Chelsea don't really have that many supporters compared to the other big teams. Chelsea is still a club supported in England by the fans who've been there since the bad times, Liverpool and Arsenal have been gaining fans over the last 50 years with all their success. Chelsea aren't really a popular team, most neutrals have a real dislike for the club, for various reasons (John Terry is a nasty man, Mourinho speaks the truth and that's bad, Chelsea was the name of a girl who rejected them in high school etc.. ;)).
     
  26. BlackSilver

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    These values are for what? Tickets for national championship matches? If yes for what places?

    Dunga is again Brazil's coach.
     
  27. Feña14

    Feña14 Legend

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    Tickets to single games range from around £40-£50.

    Season tickets are the ones where you get your own seat at every single home Premier League game.

    Getting a season ticket at Chelsea for instance (£595) works out at £31 per game. Liverpool £37 per game, Arsenal £52.
     
  28. BlackSilver

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    So, no price differentiation for different places?
     
  29. Feña14

    Feña14 Legend

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    Ahh, you mean do better seats cost more? Yeah, the ones closer to the pitch generally cost more. Like if you were going to the theatre or something like that.
     
  30. Russeljones

    Russeljones G.O.A.T.

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    United to win it by a landslide again. Arsenal or Liverpool to miss out.
     
  31. Feña14

    Feña14 Legend

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    You seem to of made your mind up about Liverpool, I'm still undecided. The players they've signed are all very similar and are just adding to the strength that was already there, Markovic, Lallana when they already have Sterling and Coutinho doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. The squad was lacking balance last year, even more so now. There's still time for them to address the defence, but at the moment I'm with you, they could struggle.
     
  32. Russeljones

    Russeljones G.O.A.T.

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    That's just it, they are missing out on the opportunity to build on last season. It was all Suarez. Now they are going to buy a bunch of players - Tottenham Hotspur style - and will find these players lacking. I don't rate Brendan Rogers so highly. It will be very hard for them to qualify inside the top 4 again, unless they get lucky on the transfer market. I just don't see it happening. Only Arsenal's mediocrity can help them. And when I say mediocrity, I mean the caliber of players being signed by the club with the most expensive tickets in the country.

    Going to be a thrilling season, once again.
     
  33. Feña14

    Feña14 Legend

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    The Spurs from last year comparison could be a good one, having so much money to spend is often seen as a good thing, but it's actually tough to make it work at times.

    The season is set up nicely yeah. Chelsea, Man Utd and Arsenal are better. Man City haven't done anything, and then there's Liverpool, oh and Spurs with their new manager. Last season was tight and interesting from start to finish, next year looks like it could be turned up a notch again.

    For those of you who did the fantasy football on the official Premier League site, it's open again for this season. Hopefully we'll get enough for a TT sub league again :)
     
  34. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    NOt being british but always keen on your sporting and social mixed culture, which I find very interesting, may I ask if I am correct in this overlook?

    It used to be common groove before, and I don´t know if STILL now and that is why I am asking, that Spurs and Arsenal, the two Northern London big clubs were basically supported by middle, middle to upper class people even if those neighbourhoods were not the most expensive in town...while Chelsea, which is a luxury district ( or it was) has a broad lower class fan base

    2/ Is still true that Liverpool and Utd are still more proletarian ( in the modern sense, of course) in relation to Everton and City which were traditionally the clubs supported by the local born middle class people of Liverpool and Manchester?

    and...the biggest one... is STILL, in 2014, true that Celtic are the Catholic team and Rangers are the Protestant/Anglican team, I mean, hasn´t there been a progressive crossover of both communities in Glasgow that tends to reduce that assertion?

    Thanks beforehanded for your comments
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2014
  35. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    One more question for you british people...as a kid and teen I was always fascinated by your tribal culture which mixed up fun and leisure with real social groove.In both music and football...what is next after the glorious old days of Mods vs Rockers ( 60´s) and Skin vs Punks ( early 80´s)??
     
  36. Feña14

    Feña14 Legend

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    Liverpool and Man Utd do have alot of fans from all over the Country, just like Juventus in Italy who often have more demand for tickets to away games than they do home ones :) There's a saying that Man Utd fans are like rats as you're never more than a few feet away from one! Not the nicest way of putting it, but it gives you the kind of idea. Whenever i've been going to Liverpool or Man Utd away, travelling up north on the motorway you probably see more cars with Man Utd or Liverpool scarves in the back window than you do Chelsea fans travelling up to the game.

    Everton and Man City are generally the teams that the people local to the area support, but it depends on which part of the city people are from really.

    As for the London teams, Chelsea fans are mostly working class. The people who sell the fanzine at games are a group of market traders, everyone at the games know them from the local area as much as they do from the games themselves. The richer people from the area seem to support Fulham. As for Arsenal and Spurs, hard to say really as it's best to avoid those sorts ;) Spurs have a big Jewish fan base, which generally would suggest they have a fairly wealthy fan base.
     
  37. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    What about Glasgow greats, feña?

    How would you put West Brom vs Aston Villa fan base socially?
     
  38. Feña14

    Feña14 Legend

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    The two Glasgow teams are based on religion yeah, not so much on the strong beliefs people have today, but families have been one side or the other for generations, so you're born into a team really.

    Villa and West Brom, my partner is a West Brom fan unfortunately! ;)

    Villa fans mostly come from Sutton Coldfield, which is a large, and traditionally quite nice area. They also have a larger fan base as they're a more of an established side who have had success. West Brom fans are usually just outside Birmingham, it's actually classed as Staffordshire. Places like Oldbury, Tipton, Smethwick, Walsall and Wednesbury (where the other half is from orignially).
     
  39. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Thanks, seems very sound
     
  40. SempreSami

    SempreSami Hall of Fame

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    We had loutish *****s of Britpop.
     
  41. PureAlph4

    PureAlph4 Semi-Pro

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    On ticketing, I can only really comment on Arsenal.

    Fixtures split into three categories:
    A (home matches vs top opposition - United, City, Chelsea, Liverpool, Tottenham as NL derby);
    B (home matches vs established PL teams and other London derbies)
    C (home matches vs newly promoted teams, or 'unfashionable' recently promoted teams)

    Category C games are quite affordable when compared to most other PL clubs and other entertainment events in London. For example, I watched us play Southampton last season for £29. The cheapest seats in the stadium for an adult would have been around £25, and the most expensive regular seats (non-Club level) around £50.

    Category B games are more expensive, with the cheapest seats being around £35, and the costliest being around £75. Within this category last season you could have watched any of the Champions' League group games, fantastic league matches like the one versus Everton, or FA Cup games (excluding the 3rd round North London derby which was Cat A).

    Category A is the tier where it gets really expensive, and which leads to Arsenal being labelled as the club with crazy ticket prices. To watch these games, the cheapest seat in the stadium becomes £63, and a regular seat on the half-way line £125.

    League Cup matches are £10 for lower tier tickets, and £20 for the upper tier. Last season I watched our terrible match versus Chelsea for £10, which you can't really complain about! These games are not included within season tickets, so it's quite easy to get access to areas that usually wouldn't be accessible (i.e the loud blocks in the corners by the pitch in the North Bank).

    As for season tickets, I believe the cheapest at Arsenal is around £1000 (for 19 home league games + 7 cup credits which usually comprise all three CL group games, and the first four FA Cup rounds). I've had an offer the last three seasons, but prefer to just buy tickets to the games I want to go to seeing as the mates I go with aren't near the top of the waiting list, and I can't make it to all the games anyway; the offer this summer was for season tickets ranging from £1195 - £2039.

    With regard to how ticket prices align with position in the stadium, the bottom tier (by the pitch) comprises the cheapest tickets in the stadium; the upper tier is more expensive, with seats behind the goals cheaper, and seats on the sides of the pitch more expensive.

    On background of the fans, there's still the 'traditional,' working class Arsenal fan from North London, but compared to the Highbury days you see far more tourists and a wider range of Londoners. At the start of the PL, the average price of a ticket to watch the Arsenal was £10, which was about 8.5% of the average UK weekly wage; the average ticket price is now nearly £46 (335% increase, while average wages only increased 106%), which constitutes 18% of the average weekly wage. So clearly, a lot of the 'traditional' fans are being priced out of the stadium, and that's the reason for increasing protests at the board in recent years.

    Overall, I think the club does a reasonable job in making seats accessible in such an expensive city. If you can't afford £70+ for Category A games, then you can still see the team play a few times a year for under £30 a match. But yeah - football definitely sold its soul.
     
  42. Feña14

    Feña14 Legend

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    Nice information, always interesting to see how other teams go about it.

    When i've been to away games and talked to the away fans it seems common for the lower teams to hike the prices for the away fans, but keep the home fans tickets at the regular price.

    They were shocked to hear we had to pay £55 and get stuck up in the stands, whilst the home fans payed their usual £35.

    You can't really blame these sides, they never know how long they'll be in the Premier League so they're making money whilst they can.

    The other thing that annoys me about away games? When they get the sponsors to name the man of the match and it's always a home player :) I remember beating Wigan 5-0 away and Titus Bramble was the one they gave it too. Funny!
     
  43. Russeljones

    Russeljones G.O.A.T.

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    Maybe he made the difference between 0-5 and 0-11 :D
     
  44. Lukhas

    Lukhas Legend

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    So, strictly no comment on Loïc Rémy's transfer? Not even James Rodriguez? Nor Pellegrini's comments about needing more players? I though that this was at least the "TT Premier League Club". Seems not.
     
  45. Russeljones

    Russeljones G.O.A.T.

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    Why don't you comment then?

    The Remy transfer is further proof of my words that LFC are doing a Tottenham.

    James went to RM for top money, despite his club not wanting to sell. Nothing new there. Will this put financial pressure on Real? Not really. If I remember correctly, Real recouped their expenses on the Ronaldo/Kaka transfers within two years from shirt sales alone. James has the perfect profile to appeal to their fan base.

    Pellegrini is in a little bit of a bother because Negredo is injured and they need to retain "own" players to comply with the FFP restrictions placed on them this season. They will have to sell if they want to buy and I won't be surprised if Pellegrini is sent packing if they don't impress in the Champions League group stage.
     
  46. Lukhas

    Lukhas Legend

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    Because it seemed not to be the matter at hand for several pages maybe? I maybe eventually bite the bullet, but you hardly can argue most people didn't seem care so far, wouldn't you?

    Don't think James went for the money; there's plenty money at Monaco. The fame and prestige of the club alone were IMO more important. And I believe Monaco would've sold regardless. He's from Portugal (figuratively speaking), a country that has a good history of selling their players for big bucks. He did a alright L1 season and a good WC. You don't know if he'll be the next Forlan in this regard. Given the steep loss in money Rybololev faced due to his divorce that may have forced him to rethink his strategy, 80+M€ minus bonuses (and maybe 90M€+ given that Real understates the transfer value a lot) is good money for a promising player you don't know if he will confirm or not.

    Doing a Tottenham? tottenham doesn't have a defence to begin with, that's a steep comparison. Well I believe they didn't take Rémy to actually replace Suarez in any way. My guess being that Sturridge will have this role. Me thinks that Rémy despite favouring the axis will be once more exiled to the wing and used for sprinting. I actually doubt LFC has the bucks, Suarez's transfer or not, to attract a big star either. So, go a tier lower and fill for PL.

    Pellegrini? Mangala. 40€M is overkill though, but that's Protugal for you.
     
  47. SempreSami

    SempreSami Hall of Fame

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    Pfft who cares, Barcelona have signed PES6 legend Jeremy Mathieu.
     
  48. Lukhas

    Lukhas Legend

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    We shall see. Seems they want to make a "Abidal" of him as he was formed as a LB but will most likely play CB. Still, 20M is a bit expensive considering he's 30. Wish him the best of luck.

    Ha, PES6... Playing the new ones is torture. :| EDIT: All hail Football Manager! :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2014
  49. PureAlph4

    PureAlph4 Semi-Pro

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    What does the future hold for the French clubs that the rest of Europe got used to seeing over the past 15 years in the CL now that PSG and Monaco have completely changed the playing field?

    Lyon and Marseille, as well as Bordeaux, have been dominant forces in Ligue 1 in the recent past, but have now been left behind. They all have impressive new, or completely refurbished, stadiums opening over the next year in preparation for Euro 2016 in France. Will these new stadiums help them compete again, or does the new money in Paris and Monaco mean they can only pray for a miracle season (like a Montpellier)?
     
  50. Lukhas

    Lukhas Legend

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    Lyon is doing it, but not before a few years. Their formation centre keeps them afloat; I think they have the most players in big championships coming out of their centre just behind Barcelona. So they may stay competitive by virtue of this. We shall see when the stadium is finished and will belong to them at 100%; common place in several other championships but a rarity in France.

    Marseille is trying it; they've eventually put Anigo on the bus (more or less fictive job) and throwing all their hopes into Bielsa. Margarita Louis-Dreyfus has made clear however that her financial input will be limited AND that the club will need to address their financial situation quickly. The fortune left by Robert belongs to her children and while she ain't poor, she hasn't that much personal fortune to invest into football despite assuring the club's funds in case it was needed. As a result, the club recorded its first beneficial yearly result in years and probably a decade or more. The number is miserable, but while the club is still run down by "supporters" trying to make as much money out of it as possible, the funds are more healthy so far. However they've threatened not to play in Velodrome as the rent asked by the city of Marseille is incredibly high and out of any considerate proportions.
    EDIT: BTW, if any Europe playing club is interested, Valbuena sells for... 5 to 7M€. :lol:

    Bordeaux is dead. After Blanc left, the previous L1 champions players had their pay raised, but couldn't produce the game needed to stay on top. Which made the funds of the club suffer since you can't even sell them with the salary they ask compared to their actual performances. The previous coach (Francis Gillot) gave up despite winning French Cup in 2013 -understandably so IMO. The club belongs to the TV Group M6, and they don't put a single coin into it. All the decent players are sold (last example is Obraniak), nothing but goats with a (nice) Puma jersey eating the grass there. I can't see what (besides being sold to rich investors) would save the club. The owners have absolutely no ambition whatsoever. I am curious to see what Willy Sagnol (ex-coach of the "Espoirs") will bring to the table and if he will be able to change anything.

    That aside, French football has little ambition. The club culture isn't as strong as in other countries, the league in itself is fairly balanced which can lead to some surprises from one year to another. The league standings in themselves aren't always uninteresting because of the very balanced championship, but the lack of stability -or rather "untouchable clubs" like you have in Spain (maybe not up to this point but you get the idea) kind of hurt the league. Which also means that a team strong one year may not have the solidity to carry on to the following year as players may ask for extra pocket money or want to leave while they still shine. That's why you have so many players burying themselves in the likes of Newcastle, West Bromwich Albions, previously QPR and the likes. I still don't know why Lloris extended his contract at Tottenham... :confused:
    The teams do not always search glory of trophies or simply don't want to put up with the added matches sit would cause. Bar Lyon and the new-riches, little of them are trying to go far in European competitions. Most owners are satisfied with taking the extra money and concentrate on the league to qualify again and get out the same way -but with their pockets full. Still ditto for Marseille who tried last year but eventually felt short too often to gather even a single point.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2014

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