Discussion in 'Odds & Ends' started by Ross K, Aug 10, 2008.
I'm struggling to stick to my "give LvG till the end of the season" position.
I think we're in danger of missing out on Europe completely if this carries on.
My sister says I should have faith in my team but man, it's hard.
It is over.
United probably need Guardiola to reform and restore the club. Seems it is too late though.
Only option is Jose, it will be a fun 18-30 months with him in charge.
There will surely be trophies though and that is what post-Fergie united need. Jose wins, he always has.
United are not in a strong enough position now to tempt Lord Guardiola. Even if we did wait until the end of the season.
Jose Mourinho wanted the job before he went back to Chelsea. He is still after it now. Do what must be done United board.
But current José is compromised IMHO...
I'm not a fan of Man Utd, but I've always admired them for saying Mourinho will never be manager there. They have a great tradition of promoting youth and playing exciting football, Mourinho is a great manager, but he goes against everything they stand for.
To hire him would be yet another step away from what makes the club great, their principles, philosophy etc..
Guardiola would be the best fit imo, second choice maybe Giggs. They need to get back to what they're all about, not move further away from it.
Ryan Giggs is a hero of mine, but he wouldn't be near the top of my list as next manager. It is a nice romantic thought, but he hasn't managed before. That would be another step back.
Look at the football we are playing under LVG.
Not a big fan of him since he is really controversial and disrespectful at times. However he never said a bad word about Manchester United which probably means he really likes the club.
Though he is only a short term manager, I wouldn't mind him being here for a while. After all, look at the current situation. We have nothing to gamble because we have nothing to lose. A very low point at the moment.
Arsenal! Made my day somewhat.
Mourinho is just a 2-3yr manager, gets bored and itchy then moves on...
So was Guardiola at the start ; )
I think Man Utds problem is that they have got away from their principles, what makes the club special and one of the biggest in the world. They've lost their identity essentially.
Would Mourinho parking the bus as they like to say, with that advertising board at Old Trafford saying "learn to play the United way" really be the key to getting the club back on track? I'm not so sure.
Mourinho straight after Ferguson would of potentially worked, a transition if you like.. But 2-3 years after that he gets the job? It wouldn't be the way I'd go, I'll be keeping an eye on the news in the coming days though.. Would be an incredible story!
Pep did coach Barcelona B before and had impressive results. One of the reasons he was hired in the first place.
Mourinho does not always park the bus. He did that in his 2nd Chelsea spell against most of the big clubs and also against Barcelona when he coached Inter. Can't blame him for the latter, they really were in hell and it was the only way to win.
Also, his Real Madrid broke the record for most goals and points in a single La Liga season, and did so in the period of Pep's Barcelona.
Any top manager coming in wouldn't make it worse because we are at the very bottom right now. The tradition was already pretty much dead when Van Gaal's philosophy mumbo-jumbo joined. Nothing would cost Manchester United to try.
I wouldn't really pay much attention to the rumors though. Most of that stuff are usually made up stories that attract people into reading it.
And would he survive the annoying attack attack attack chants? Jose might have parked the bus, but he was successful when he parked that bus. LVG has our bus heading towards 8th place. I'm not even on the Mourinho bandwagon, it's just, what other options are out there? Everybody seems to believe Pep is going to City.
Guardiola started off with Barcelona B, so he did have some experience being a manager. He also had the likes of Xavi, Iniesta and Messi when he did take over Barcelona. It is just a different situation.
Yeah the managerial merry go round this summer is going to be interesting. Ancelotti, Mourinho, Simeone, Pellegrini, Guardiola, Conte.. All change!
My worry if I was a Man Utd fan would be that it appears they need a rebuild of sorts, Rooney isn't really doing it, young but talented players are entering their most important years. What happens over the next few years will lay the foundation for the next decade, is Mourinho the one to get that right? Maybe that's a risk they feel they have to take.
I think Chelsea played decently against Watford, especially first half. But three individual flaws stopped their victory.
Shame I lost Arsenal's show. Must have been the holiday's match.
I watched the Arsenal match, tbf, they played better than ManYoo.
Unfortunately for Arsenal, Southampton played well and got lucky:
1st goal was a wonder goal but there was a player offside.
2nd goal had a foul in the build up (Shane Long trip).
3rd goal was from a corner that never should have been.
4th goal was legit.
Some guy selling Mourinho United scarfs outside Old Trafford. haha
I'd take one of those over a hamburger.
I wonder what will the ones who bought those scarfs do with them if Jose ends up somewhere else.
Man Utd playing pretty well, Chelsea look abysmal. No hunger or intensity, just not turned up so far.
As soon as I decide to take a break from watching their matches, Manchester United decide to play well.
A football fan takes no breaks.
Yeah, Chelsea are rubbish today.
I might have to try that with Chelsea lol. Desperate times!
I can still see Chelsea winning today.
Not winning the league.
I am not taking a break from football. But watching this squad recently has been a waste of time. Not because of the results, but because of their performances.
BVB is the one I like to follow nowadays.
At least you are in the Champions League knockout rounds. You will probably get Zlatanized, but still.
United played better today and there wasn't as much side to side non action. Was this because we are suddenly looking for it, or does it mean Chelsea are that bad? I think it was a mixture of both today. Chelsea probably had the best chance with the Matic miss.
That miss from Wazza in the final minutes though...
I think it's a mixture of both yeah. Chelsea just don't have the intensity or commitment to be competitive, losing to the likes of Bournemouth etc.. They just want it more. Man Utd wanted it more and it showed.
Man, several years ago Manchester United and Chelsea were arguing who has a better squad and is in better form.
Now, it is a discussion about which team is a bigger load of crap.
Our best performance of the season is a 0-0 against a team fighting relegation. Let us celebrate.
Yeah lol, they were the two best in the world when they played the Champions League final, back when the Premier League was at it's peak, 3 teams in the final 4 for a few years straight etc..
The quality today was just awful from both sides, it was painful to watch at times.
Chelsea fans starting an attack attack attack chant was the highlight of the match today.
Yeah, I miss those days. If it wasn't for Iniesta's wonder goal, we would have had a historic and unprecedented Champions League final rematch.
Now the Premier League is a laughing stock.
Or the 4 nailed on penalties that were all turned down, not that i'm still bitter or anything...
l think the mid table Premier League sides have actually got better, they can afford and attract the quality of player who is just below the best. The top sides have got worse though, the very best want to play in Spain or for Bayern.
The difference between the top teams and the averages ones in England now is very small, great for a competitive competiton where anyone can beat anyone, but we've seen in Europe the last few years how far behind City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Utd are compared to Bayern, Barca, the Madrid teams etc..
You two are overrating the teams of other leagues. There was two, three teams from other leagues better than any team from premier league and that is it. The quality of all twenty teams or so wasn't better. And things will be more and more favorable to it's teams in near future.
It's a never ending argument. I always say Barcelona, Madrid and Bayern would struggle to dominate the EPL because the competition would smother them. It took Sir Alex Ferguson and some pretty special young players to rise to the top of the field. You can see now that even money cannot guarantee success in this league. Exorbitant, sickening, divorced from reality money.
I presumed LVG's position was untenable. Seems he stays for now. Although a loss at the weekend would be enough.
I am not saying he won't turn it around, just a sacking is the logical thing and what any other super club would have done.
People get too worked up about sacking managers. If you strongly believe the probability of achieving your goals would be increased by replacing the manger then you do it.
It seems the reason he hasn't been sacked is more to do worth being Ed Woodward's man, sacking him would therefore mean Woodward's biggest decision was a failure. While the Glazers don't know anything about football, they literally would not have any clue regarding the issue. Woodward meanwhile is a marketing whizz, football man? That remains to be seen. This means United are still stuck in the dark ages behind the scenes. The club was run like a dictatorship under Fergie (in a good way) and this contributed greatly to his success but now he is gone the club is suffering.
However Van Gaal will now presumably be less stubborn and if the players are willing to play for him then he can turn it round. But they need a goal scorer.
Congrats to FC Barcelona on breaking the record for most goals in one calendar year - 180 in 2015.
Of course, majority of that is thanks to this legendary trio.
I don't think so. Their continental success in recent years has been amazing.
They couldn't do it on a cold rainy night in Aldershot.
Who's success? Spain are only 5 points ahead of England in the coefficient rankings despite English clubs continuously "tanking" in the Europa League - the European Coefficient farm of choice. You say recent years, I say yes, it is easier to be competitive in major competitions when you have no competition at home. The EPL has become a fightclub of enormous riches where even the bottom clubs will receive more from TV rights than the winner of this season's CL. The way this season has gone only goes to prove that anyone can beat anyone in this league. Not something that can be said of the Spanish and German leagues.
English clubs are competitive between themselves, big guns losing to relegation contenders is not something rare there. But that doesn't mean that teams like Barcelona, Bayern or Real would struggle in the EPL too.
The difference between top and bottom clubs is not the main thing that determines the strength of the league. Their results in continental competitions are a big factor. In the Champions League, a Spanish club was a champion in 3 of the last 5 years and there was one all-Spanish final. In the Europa League, a Spanish club was a champion in 4 of the last 6 years. This year Spain also had a record 5 representatives in the main draw, and 4 of them have gone through to the last 16. Unfortunately, EPL has become a laughing stock. So much money spent yet no results. What hurts the most is that Manchester United are one of the main examples now. No performances, no results. Chelsea sank. Man City always fail on the big stage. Arsenal always inconsistent.
Barcelona on the other hand won 5 out of 6 trophies this year while being under a transfer ban. On the way to those titles, they defeated the reigning Spanish champions (Atleti), Cyprus champions (APOEL), Dutch champions (Ajax), French champions (PSG), German champions (Bayern), Italian champions (Juve), European champions (Real) and South American champions (River Plate). You cannot blame this amazing success on weak league.
Btw, happy New Year.
Totally agree. The Premier League is now like the NFL where equality is the name of the game. That's going to continue with the new TV deal (71% rise for what was already the richest league in the world). Even though my team are struggling because of it and having an awful season, it's been fun to see every team trading blows, league position is irrelevant. We're only going to fall further behind in Europe as a result, but maybe there can be some positives. Scouting will have to improve, more emphasis will be needed on bringing young talent through etc.. The days of the so called smaller clubs being feeder clubs for the big boys is over, Pogba and the big names will go to Spain or Bayern.. We're entering a new era in English football, should be interesting.
It absolutely does means these teams would struggle in the EPL. They don't play football at nearly the same intensity week-in week-out. They rest during winter. Spanish defending, in particular, is quite pathetic.
Your 5 year window comparison is equally irrelevant. Why not look to the years when English Clubs were equally prevalent in the latter stages of the CL? Mentioning the Europa League again shows you either don't understand the football map or, conversely, you are grasping at straws to make these accomplishments look meaningful. It is quite difficult for an EPL team to compete domestically if they have to play Thursdays in Kazan, Astana or Tel Aviv. They would have to win the thing to break even on their expenses, not counting the opportunity cost of surrendering league positions in the process. The "laughing stock" epithet seems to be coming from one fit to be descrbed as such.
Everything in your post reeks of recency bias but despite this you are unable to see what is plain to see - the EPL is by far the most unpredictable and entertaining league of the big European Leagues.
Well EPL is not helping itself either when you look that freaking Leicester has the best attack while the current Manchester United has the 2nd best defense. And I am their fan.
I used the 5 year window to show what has been happening recently. Those times when EPL clubs were doing better than anyone else are sadly gone. If I am correct, in 2007-09 the league had 3 clubs in CL semis. As for the Europa League, it is also tough for a Spanish or any other team to play Thursday night football against some anonymous clubs from nowhere then return to their country and play on weekends. How do you see that English clubs are the only ones damaged in EL participation I really have no idea.
EPL is the most unpredictable and entertaining league that produced a countless number of dramatic title races and battles for other spots, I am not denying that. But when comparing the quality of their top clubs with top clubs of other ones, you can see that (at this moment) they are all behind the likes of Barcelona, Bayern, PSG, Real and even Juve.
Non sense, Only Barcelona and Bayern have strong case of being better than the best premier league teams.
Spanish success on champions league is more about the success of a single club, which is in great part sucess of a single player whose name doesn't need to be said
Not sure what makes best Premier League teams better than Real Madrid and PSG.
Spanish success is about Barcelona, but also about Real. Their consistency is one of the best ones in recent years. The all-Spanish final we had in 2014 did not feature Barca. Europa League has been dominated by Sevilla and Atletico before them.
I would say that the entire MSN played a big part in them winning CL in 2015, not just Messi. After all, Neymar did score as many goals as him in that campaign.
Not sure what makes Real Madrid (from this year) and PSG (from any year) better than the Premier League teams.
Real has very little meaningful victories on CL on the last years. The only one that comes to my mind is against United. Probably there are a few more, but if it is only one or two means they were lucky, playing weak opponents most time.
That's way an eliminatory tournament, which few teams and few matches can't be used as a serious performance analysis tool
Nice, but is the same problem as champions league with the added problem of some teams of other countries not giving it as many care as they should.
Neymar scored a bunch of easy goals being prepared by Messi. Messi did the hard work and Neymar took most of the credit.
Well, Real have been in the last 6 CL semis. Managed to win one title, beating the likes of BVB, Bayern and Atleti along the way.
PSG defeated the team that eventually became English champions in the most recent campaign despite playing with 10 men for the majority of the match. Reached last 3 quarterfinals.
On the English side, only Chelsea did something impressive recently, reaching one semi two years ago (when they lost to the Spanish club Atleti) and winning the CL in 2012 (how they did that I still don't know). City are yet to register CL quarters in their history. Arsenal have also not reached last 8 in quite a while. Manchester United have lost their magic. Anyway, if you are thinking about some hypotheticals like City-Real, Chelsea-Real, City-PSG, I believe the English would lose all of those.
Easy or not, Neymar is one of the Ballon d'Or candidates. Messi's goalscoring and playmaking abilites he showed in the previous 12 months will win him the award, but Neymar played a very important part in Barcelona's domination in 2015.
Hope Zizou does well in charge of Real, would be a shame to see him get booted out eventually.
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