The TT Football Club

Discussion in 'Odds & Ends' started by Ross K, Aug 10, 2008.

  1. TheMuzziah

    TheMuzziah Professional

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    Yeah, United are winning the title deffo.

    Next time will be 6 added minutes, after that a penalty in the 98th minute etc etc

    Classic stuff. Come on City ffs!!!!
     
  2. Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil

    Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil Legend

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    They bombarded Hull for the entire match and scored a nice goal in the 2nd added minute. Justice won (yeah hard for you to believe that United are representing justice :p).
     
  3. Emperor of Belgrade

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    I sink we played well, I was sinking about substituting someone else...

    Jose sinking gets me every time. :D
     
  4. Tiki-Taka

    Tiki-Taka Semi-Pro

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    Winning 3 points against a team who parks the bus is one extremely good feeling, I know that very well. I guess many United fans are going wild.

    Mourinho putting a youngster in and him winning the game sounds so hard to believe! :eek:
     
  5. Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil

    Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil Legend

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    You'll eventually like him. ;)
     
  6. Poisoned Slice

    Poisoned Slice Legend

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    Yeah, feels good to not slip behind before we play City. Had the old 0-0 feeling even though United were relentless. Can't wait for the City match.
     
  7. Tiki-Taka

    Tiki-Taka Semi-Pro

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    No way.

    You know how people put an asterisk next to Novak's Slams just because they don't like him? Well I will be putting an asterisk next to any trophy you win under Mourinho. :p

     
  8. Emperor of Belgrade

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  9. Poisoned Slice

    Poisoned Slice Legend

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    I hope many asterisk are added in the next 3+ years.
     
  10. Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil

    Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil Legend

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    Ok, I hope you will be in a position to put them many times in the near future. :p
     
  11. TheMuzziah

    TheMuzziah Professional

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    Thing is im not even surprised in the slightest. Swear I turned it off 10 minutes from time to avoid the inevitable...

    Oh well. Their team is worth more then £250m and they've got the "great" Mourinho so anything other then the title will be pretty embarrassing. I've always hated Hull, town is a complete ****ehole and they always bend over for United. Good riddance.

    Please no pictures :rolleyes: is this a United thread or what? o_O :p jk
     
  12. Tiki-Taka

    Tiki-Taka Semi-Pro

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    Was mostly kidding, I am indifferent at the moment. I am happy to see a competitive United, the title race is where they belong, and I love the suspense that the English league has overall. I will wait for the Christmas break to choose the side. ;)
     
  13. Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil

    Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil Legend

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    I believe City are slightly bigger favorites. And if our players are overpriced, winning everything shouldn't be an expectation then, no?
    You will be waiting forever then, EPL doesn't have Christmas break like you guys do. :D
     
  14. Poisoned Slice

    Poisoned Slice Legend

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    I think Fellaini will play because it is against City and you know what you're getting from him, but I want to see if Schneiderlin has what it takes beside Pogba. If they will compliment each other better. Or Herrera.

    Carrick is just there to be used in Disney Land. :p
     
  15. Tiki-Taka

    Tiki-Taka Semi-Pro

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    My bad. I guess I could watch it more closely in that time while we are on a break.
     
  16. Emperor of Belgrade

    Emperor of Belgrade Hall of Fame

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    I guess that's a good way to avoid disappointment. :p

    Didn't memorize the history of Hull City - Man United matches. All I know that in the previous 3 years I have heard how many different teams haven't defeated us since before Christ :D and then Moyes/Van Gaal would go on and end those unbeaten streaks LOL.

    I'd totally support you bringing some of your fellow Liverpool guys here, you seem lonely. :D;) Though most of us didn't leave an impression of being bad guys.
     
  17. Tiki-Taka

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    Where did Schweinsteiger go, United fans? I haven't seen him play and I heard he won't play under the current manager.
     
  18. Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil

    Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil Legend

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    Nowhere. :D He'll be earning 190k per week for training with the reserves and supporting the team, he is a genius.
     
  19. Chicharito

    Chicharito Professional

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    Rashford, Good Lord.

    Sit down Sir. If this isn't greatness, what is? Barring the Great Benitez of course.
    Porto
    Chelsea
    Inter Milan
    Real Madrid
    Manchester United
     
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  20. Poisoned Slice

    Poisoned Slice Legend

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    I need to pay more attention. Fellaini picks up injury.

    Having fun playing cat and mouse with Jose. ''I will not play for another club in europe'' Turning up and supporting the lads, etc. Oh, this wonderful Bastian, what a fella. United through and through lol But yeah, good work if you can get it.

    Jose just being honest, naming all the midfielders and they are all better equipped. Post prime Carrick is more valuable.
     
  21. Slice'n'dice

    Slice'n'dice Professional

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    Yeah I mean I'm joking really, that said, I wouldn't be surprised if they did it again though, I think it probably will be one of the teams dropping out of the Champions League that wins it and they are a good side and could easily be one of those teams. Would be amazing to see if they did it once more though, would quite like to see it. Southampton would be nice too but I think the selling all their best players and managers thing might finally be catching up with them.

    Fixed that for you mate, have faith!

    Always better when the Champions League teams drop out.
     
  22. Slice'n'dice

    Slice'n'dice Professional

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    Champions League with Porto is the only truly impressive feat to be honest. He's done well obviously but going to the teams with basically limitless pots of money makes things a little easier to be honest, done pretty well with it but nothing too out of the ordinary considering resource. Real Madrid was fairly unsuccessful all things considered and the state he left teams like Inter and Chelsea (the second time around especially) have showed the problems with his management. Don't get me wrong he is a very good manager, but to say he's some kind of perfect manager/managerial genius would just be wrong.
     
  23. Emperor of Belgrade

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    Beating Chelsea, Barcelona and Bayern to win the CL with Inter isn't impressive? Winning the domestic league in 4 countries and 8 leagues in 14 seasons isn't impressive? Who is a better active manager than him?
     
  24. Poisoned Slice

    Poisoned Slice Legend

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    All Pep's trophies have an asterisk beside them. I believe a trophy won with Man City will be his first true non asterisk accomplishment.
     
  25. Slice'n'dice

    Slice'n'dice Professional

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    It's impressive of course. But it's not an outstanding achievement, had an amazing team but yeah well done to him for that. Wining the domestic League in those countries when I think every time he had the team with the most money (barring Chelsea the other year when he essentially had no competition, and he still had barrels full of money, the season after City win the League they don't compete. It's tradition.) Again 8 leagues in that time, you should do given those sorts of resources he has had.

    Winning the Champions League with Inter a good achievement, with Porto a better one. Not out of this world though, the Champions League with Liverpool with the team they had at the time, from 3-0 down against a superb AC Milan side. That's a far better achievement than Porto. Winning the League with the favourites for relegation in Leicester. Beyond Mourinho's wildest dreams that.

    As for current managers who are better than him, I would say Ancelotti, Simeone, Benitez, Klopp, Wenger (for the long term health of the club although probably are dozens of managers who fit that he is not good for clubs in the long term, titles or not) are all better than him. Quite a few more I suspect as I don't think he's quite the manager he used to be, even assuming he isn't his record with youngsters pull him down further in my view as that's pretty important. Not to mention the style his sides play, in that sense he is simply a better version of Sam Allardyce.

    But for an isolated 3 year period there's not many managers who will achieve more when given the sort of funds he gets given. Moving outside of that, he falls down the list.
     
  26. Poisoned Slice

    Poisoned Slice Legend

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  27. Emperor of Belgrade

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    I am getting a signal that the weak era thing is now being used in football. And money isn't automatic success.

    Don't be joking, Liverpool's title isn't a more impressive one than Porto's. The final turnaround was epic, not denying that. But you should look at the entire Porto's road. Real and Marseille in the group. Manchester United first knockout round opponent. Then the French powerhouse Lyon. Followed by Deportivo, one of strongest Spanish clubs in early 00s who destroyed defending champions Milan in the 2nd leg one round before. Monaco, who knocked out Real, in the final. Sure they didn't face Milan, but Porto were bigger underdogs that season to go all the way.

    Out of all those, I might give you Ancelotti because of him not flopping anywhere really, though his league record is extremely average for such a manager with a very long career that started just before this millennium. Only 3 leagues. Simeone, a few titles and good runs in Europe. But you could just as easily say that Barcelona and Real underperformed back when Atletico won the league (as neither crossed 90 points mark that is recently a routine for them), like you said about Chelsea's most recent title when their rivals didn't do well. Also, Simeone's playing style is much uglier yet you aren't criticizing him for that. Benitez, what is it that puts him above Mourinho? 2 league titles and 2 CL finals with Valencia and 1 CL with Liverpool in what was a longer career? Or do you give big value to his Liverpool knocking Mourinho's Chelsea out of CL twice? Did you see how his succession of treble winning Inter managed by you-know-who turned out? Or his journey from Real's coach to the 2nd division Newcastle coach in just one year? What is putting Klopp above? What is putting Wenger above? A golden EPL and 3 leagues overall in 20 years of management while finishing 4th being a tradition for one period?

    Now, some say most of these coaches didn't coach the biggest clubs (but the likes of Valencia, Atleti, BVB, Arsenal instead) and that Mourinho was expected to win as much as he has because of the resources, but why is that the case that they never got a chance to be in that position while Mourinho did, in every country, even after not having the best ending in some of his spells? If he was always trusted with such big jobs and a good amount of money, doesn't that speak of how everyone sees him as a fantastic manager capable of turning everyone into a winning team, quickly? I might be focusing too much on the trophies, but keep in mind that he has beaten all of those coaches in that aspect (except Ancelotti's CLs) despite being just over a decade in the managing business himself which is probably just a half of his entire career.

    Btw, if the condition in which the manager leaves his team is so important, I wonder how would you rate Sir Alex. He won more than anyone else could imagine but the club has struggled since his departure. Is that a minus for him?
     
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  28. Chicharito

    Chicharito Professional

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    Benitez?

    CANNOT BREATHE
     
  29. Poisoned Slice

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    City with another win today.

    United vs City next.

    Thank goodness Eddie Hearn doesn't control the football.
     
  30. Tiki-Taka

    Tiki-Taka Semi-Pro

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    So it's United, City and Chelsea all winning their opening three games. Can't remember if the English league ever had 3 teams with 9 points after 3 matches. Can't wait to see anything two of these three clash.

    Weirdly, in the previous La Liga season, Barca were the only team to win their opening two games. All other 19 teams already dropped points...
     
  31. Slice'n'dice

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    A weak year. It was, the closest contender Man City the year after they won the league and Arsenal. Perennial chokers. So it makes it easier.

    Liverpool beat some great teams on the way and they were **** back then. They had Djimi Traore starting the final - in fact playing the entire 120 minutes. Milan Baros leading the line. No way were Porto bigger underdogs, a quality team and a great run no mistake. Nowhere near the favourites, but Liverpool were not a very good side back then. It was a pretty average team. Nobody was expecting them to go all the way.

    I'm rating the managers on their ability as managers not in achievements. Achievements are at the mercy of the clubs you are at so you have to use other things. Like achievements relative to expectations, building teams, buying and bringing through youth players, and leaving the club in a healthy state when they leave. No question Mourinho has a great record in terms of achievements. But those other things he falls down on. Inter is the best example, you use it as a stick to beat Benitez with, but look at how Inter have done since then. It was an old team, they didn't reinvest so they struggled. Mourinho got out at the right time. Have Inter even been back in the Champions League since then?

    Yeah people keep going for him, because of what he gives, short term success. It's easy to be blinded by that, in recent times his weaknesses have been exposed a little more.

    Yes I would rate him very highly, (although two Champions Leagues in 26 years is nothing special, not quite 3 in 8) don't like him one bit, but he's been a fantastic manager on all those terms that I mentioned. Don't think he left the team in too bad state they just hired someone for whom the job was too big to succeed him in Moyes (similarly to Hodgson at Liverpool).

    Yes Benitez. A manager who turned a team with a bunch of average players into Champions of Europe, and then turned the same club into a genuine European heavyweight always fighting at the end of the Champions League and challenging for the title. All meanwhile with a couple of cowboy owners strangling the club. Not to mention his prior record of breaking the Barca Real Madrid stranglehold of La Liga, and winning a European trophy or too himself with Valencia. Not to mention a European trophy and third place for Chelsea in a season with his own fans baying for his blood every single game. Yes, Benitez.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2016 at 12:18 PM
  32. Slice'n'dice

    Slice'n'dice Professional

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    Well you won't have to wait long, Manchester Derby after the international break I believe.
     
  33. Slice'n'dice

    Slice'n'dice Professional

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    In other news, Allardici's first squad as England manager.

    Goalkeepers: Fraser Forster (Southampton), Joe Hart (Manchester City), Tom Heaton (Burnley).

    Defenders: Gary Cahill (Chelsea), Nathaniel Clyne (Liverpool), Phil Jagielka (Everton), Danny Rose (Tottenham Hotspur), Luke Shaw (Manchester United), Chris Smalling (Manchester United), John Stones (Manchester City), Kyle Walker (Tottenham Hotspur).

    Midfielders: Dele Alli (Tottenham Hotspur), Michail Antonio (West Ham United), Eric Dier (Tottenham Hotspur), Danny Drinkwater (Leicester City), Jordan Henderson (Liverpool), Adam Lallana (Liverpool), Wayne Rooney (Manchester United), Raheem Sterling (Manchester City), Theo Walcott (Arsenal).

    Strikers: Harry Kane (Tottenham Hotspur), Daniel Sturridge (Liverpool), Jamie Vardy (Leicester City).

    No Crouch bit of a strange one for him Carroll injured of course otherwise he'd be in, no Defoe either to get feed on the knock downs bit surprising. Long balls up to Kane it is then. Guess he's pretty tall. Still a work in progress trying to get Kevin Davies and Kevin Nolan out or retirement I guess.

    Can't bring myself to support England these days, even less so with Allardyce in charge. Gonna be interesting though, and by interesting I mean, excruciating. Let the horror show begin.
     
  34. Chicharito

    Chicharito Professional

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    My top 5 coaches in no order right now

    Pep
    Jose
    Simeone
    Conte
    Ancelotti (despite his miserable league record)
    Lets not re-write history. He didn't break the Real Barca stranglehold. It had been a massive 2 seasons since someone else had won the league in Spain. Deportivo came 2nd the first year Valencia won the title. It isn't like the team he took over where not a good side, they had been in the previous 2 champions league finals. They where a penalty shoot out from being European champions La Liga was very competitive back then. Great accomplishment of course.

    The reality is Mourino has been a better manager than Benitez, I think they are both past their best due to changes in the game. However Jose has remained relevant. Lets compare their respective Real Madrid failures for example. One wins La Liga, the other lasts 6 months lol.

    He only challenged for the title once at Liverpool. and they choked, partly due to him.

    Re Inter, not really a fair analysis but once Rafa got sacked that team actually got back into the title race and pushed AC. TBF, I don't judge Rafa on Inter, he never had a chance. Those players worshipped Jose and you replace him with a manager with so little charisma. It was only ever going to go one way.

    The Napoli years where not great either. Last 4 seasons 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 2nd. The bolded ones are the Rafa years

    He will take Newcastle up tbf. Or at least I hope he does lol.

    Benitez is a good coach and that 2005 accomplishment was great, but it happens in knockout football. Greece 2004 for example. In fact at that time the games was like that, defense was dominant. Hence Benitez and Jose being arguably the two top coaches in europe during those years.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2016 at 12:34 PM
  35. Slice'n'dice

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    Of those managers Pep and Jose just manage the best teams with the most money or close enough. If you are a good manager you do well with said clubs. Doesn't make you a great manager. Conte, what exactly has he done? He may be a great manager but not based on achievement. Winning the League with Juventus seems a bit like winning the French League with PSG now. Italy looked pretty good at the Euros but can't really judge people based on that. So are you basing it on watching him for years in Italy with Sienna and Atalanta? Or because he had a good Euros and is now at Chelsea. I mean I don't know, don't watch too much Italian football. Ancelotti and Simeone I'd probably agree with.

    I don't know if the reality is that at all. Benitez has always been willing to take riskier positions, where it's harder to achieve success. Liverpool a prime example of that. He didn't exactly fail at Madrid what were they second? When he left, didn't really get much of a chance, can't imagine Mourinho being in too different a position after 6 months at Madrid himself, didn't win the League first season either. The players and fans hadn't wanted Ancelotti to leave either so that made it tougher as well. If Zidane has an identical time over the next few months this season you can bet he won't be sacked.

    Only challenged for the title once yes, but turned them into European powerhouses. Always in the Quarters, Semis etc. 2 Champions League finals. All the time having a minimal budget due to Hicks and Gillet ****ing the club as was their style.

    inter the may have improved after he left, who wasn't to say they wouldn't have if they'd let him spend the money the gave to his successor. Although the evidence of that team being on the decline is clear as they didn't qualify for the Champions League after that season.

    Not the best at Napoli but not the worst either. Didn't leave the club in a bad state like Mourinho tends to with his clubs.

    He made a difference with Newcastle, just was hired a bit too late, would be very surprised if he doesn't take them up. Good for them to have a good manager in charge given all the dross and terrible ownership they've suffered under over the years. Assuming they get back up things will look good for them going forward.

    2005 was an incredible accomplishment. Having to do it over 15 games is tougher than the 6 Greece did it over. He may have been great at organising a defence but it's a myth that he was a defensive coach. During the 2005 run they had to be fairly defensive as they just didn't have the quality other than Gerrard.
     
  36. Emperor of Belgrade

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    Agree to disagree there, I can't see Liverpool being the bigger underdog than Porto were a year before.

    The ability of managers will be reflected through their achievements, and by achievements I don't only refer to trophies, but standings in general. You give Benitez the title of a miracle man, how he turned average players into CL winners and contenders, yet when he took Inter who held all the titles and got sacked after several months due to the team being around 6th-7th in the league and over 10 points behind, you blame Mourinho (who was offered a deal nobody could refuse, to go to Real) for leaving the squad in bad shape. Don't know where you heard the team was old. Sneijder, Eto'o, Motta, Muntari, Maicon, Pandev, Chivu were all in their 20s during Mou's last season while Stankovic, Lucio, Milito, Cambiasso and Cesar just entered their 30s (which is still a completely fine age at which players can perform well). Mid 30+ were Zanetti and Materazzi while they also had a teenage striker Balotelli. Most of them had an exceptional 2009-10 season and an immediate collapse of such proportions wasn't expected. They did manage to save the next season a bit by finishing second to Milan and winning the cup (so yes, they got to CL again), though the turnaround happened under the Brazilian manager Leonardo. I am not blaming Benitez much for the sudden drop that Inter suffered but if he is such a wizard then maybe he could have at least partially solved whatever was the problem. Inter rescuing the season when he left, with Real last season when Zidane replaced him in January also turning the season into a successful one winning the Champions League, suggests that one of the problems was actually Rafa.

    He gives success and that is the most important thing. Teams that want #1 spots bring him and he rarely ever disappointed. Even when he didn't have a great ending at some clubs, someone big immediately came calling. After controversies at Real, Chelsea called, after the meltdown last season there, Manchester United called. His stains are not reaching a CL final with Chelsea and Real (losing 6/6 semifinals with them) as well as the previous season with the Blues, but he always is in contention for the top spot. Before 2015-16, he was basically in every single title race, with 8 titles, 3 runner-up spots and only 1 3rd place finish. In the European competitions, he has been a regular presence in the ending phases, being in the last four in 9 out of 12 seasons where he participated in the competition (counting the one Europa League which he won).

    Expectations also depend on the manager. Whenever Mourinho joined a new club more optimism, confidence, expectation followed. Man United being a perfect example. They had a lot of money before and the previous manager was definitely spending it and look what happened. Now only a few games with Mourinho and everyone is aiming/thinking about the title. Having so high expectations like him means a small to non existent chance to actually exceed them, you can't be better than 1st. In a harsh way you are putting it, Jose (and I guess Pep too) can't actually impress, it's either an expected 1st or a disappointing 2nd or less. But it's no coincidence that they are regularly wanted by the biggest clubs out there, it's because they are so good themselves.
     
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  37. Tardigrade

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    Anyone who blames Mourinho for not playing the youth doesn't understand his position; Mourinho historically has worked at clubs who demand success. He needs to look after himself and win titles first and foremost. How people can knock him for not putting faith into the youth is beyond me.



    Mourinho has been smart with the young guns IMO; we've loaned Wilson, Januzaj, Pereira and Jackson. Rashford and Fosu-Mensa are staying. These six players are the future of Utd. Can't blame him for not giving these guys a chance; He needs to win a title asap. Can't do that with these guys just yet.







    Rashford not in the England squad. Does Sam Allardyce not watch football?
     
  38. Tiki-Taka

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    Rakitic gives us a 1-0 away win over Athletic Bilbao. Always great to win all 3 points in these tough trips. Deportivo Alaves at home coming up after the international break. Neymar will return to the squad by then.
    I am not knocking him for not putting faith into the youth, Jose has all the success with which he can silence all of his critics. I was just saying it's a rare scene. Rashford actually became the first teenager to score for Mourinho's team in the Premier League, and this is his 7th season in it I believe.

    Those loans can become permanent departures so don't expect them all to be the future of the club.

    He isn't in the England squad? That's strange, from the bits I have seen Rashford has been very direct and dangerous. His time will come though, no doubt.
     
  39. Slice'n'dice

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    Clearly on the decline that side. They improved after he left because they spent money. But it still wasn't enough to stop the terminal decline that they had entered mini-revivals aside as is evidenced by the fact that they haven't qualified for the Champions League since.

    Benitez 4 points of the top of La Liga when fired and still in the Champions League that they would eventually win. What a crisis eh? Who's to say he wouldn't have won the Champions League if he stayed? Credit is Zidane's of course and it should be, but Real Madrid were not exactly in crisis.

    Being title winners or runner up is par for the course when you are in that position for financial resources and probably for playing staff already at the club. Which is pretty much the case wherever he's gone so yeah. Well done, but it's not being a miracle man to do that.

    People were thinking about the title when Van Gael started as well. His record was great as well, people adjusted their expectations as it didn't go quite to plan which is what will happen with Mourinho too if they don't challenge. People getting so excited but they haven't looked that impressive to me in their games against pretty average opposition. He has the reputation, a reputation for bringing instant success.

    Of course it's tough to really shine at clubs with so much money. It's easy to win things when you have those kind of resources, so it makes it all the more important to look at other things such as the state of the club when they leave, blooding youngsters (not playing them in the League cup to rest your first team players which is predominantly what Mourinho does so he can claim such and such a player has been brought through by him) and so on.

    Pep Guardiola managed ok. Alex Ferguson brought through a youngster or two. Arsene Wenger did. Even Van Gael did. Most managers do it to some degree. He just doesn't trust youth, he likes experience. But other managers are braver with that.

    He's played in one game. The other strikers are much more proven. If you are only picking three (apparently Rooney isn't a striker). Then the others should be ahead of him. They've proven themselves. No point overloading pressure on him. His time will come. Of course given Mourinho's record, it may be after he's left for another club (either Rashford of Mourinho),

    Not one to defend Allardyce but I wouldn't really say much needs to be said about that choice. Besides he could take the English people from this board and probably still qualify, group looks insanely easy.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2016 at 2:01 PM
  40. Poisoned Slice

    Poisoned Slice Legend

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    Yeah, Jose said he would rather Rashford play games for u21, instead of sitting on the bench for England.
     
  41. Tardigrade

    Tardigrade Professional

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    A little different. When Guardiola came in at Barca, he had a perfect team where he could integrate young players, and some of his young players like Messi were clearly not playing at a standard level for their age; Messi at 19 was better than every player except for Kaka in his prime, and at 19 is probably better than anyone other than a zoning Ronaldo.


    Wenger can afford to make changes; He simply works at a club where they don't mind losing. Mourinho has worked in some places where if he doesn't win a title or the league, he is out. Chelsea have been known for this; They sacked Di Matteo a year after he won them the Champions League. You think Wenger would put his faith at a club so intolerant of failure? He could, but mark my words, if he delivered the same results at Chelsea that he has at Arsenal, he wouldn't have lasted a season; Mourinho at least brought success to Chelsea.






    He scored in his one game and helped elevate the play.


    Rashford was the only player who left with any sort of dignity after the Iceland match. He played 4 minutes, and was our best player that night. He plays for England if a top manager comes in. Other strikers are more proven? Vardy I guess so, he has a league title under his belt, but spent most of his career doing what exactly? Kane? Decent striker, but is sloppy. I think I threw up when he started taking corners and long ranger free kicks.


    Experience means nothing at football. Just watch the Iceland game. Or you can watch the likes of Messi, Aimar who were literally top tier players by the time they were 18. I'm not saying Rashford is on their level, but he could turn out to be a very, very big force in years to come. He is an unusual talent that doesn't come across very often.
     
  42. Tardigrade

    Tardigrade Professional

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    Periera and Januzaj will stay at Utd. Unless a top tier team bids for them.

    As for Rashford, it's pretty much Scholes all over again. We finally get a top class talent, who can change the game by themselves, and we dilly daddle around and either play them out of position, play them when it's too late (see Iceland) or we don't play them at all. Then after an embarrassing defeat the manager/coaching staff are left with their penises in their hands looking like complete tools when the answers were staring them in the face.
     
  43. Emperor of Belgrade

    Emperor of Belgrade Hall of Fame

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    How do you explain their triumph in all three competitions in 2009-10 if that side was clearly on decline? The money was there to be spent when Benitez was in charge, it's not like the safe is locked for him only and open for other managers.

    Real were 3rd in the league, had that cup fiasco and dropped points in every league match against a tougher opponent, and I mean literally every match. Drew against Malaga, Atletico Madrid and Valencia, lost to Villarreal and Sevilla and were crushed at home against Barcelona. That wasn't the first time recently that Real were having those scenarios in La Liga, but he failed to fix those problems. I think he and the players just never managed to click. Less to blame for that than his short Inter reign, Real have made some really weird decisions regarding their managers in the past.

    There was less title talk with Van Gaal and it died extremely quickly when they stepped on the pitch. With Jose I think the performances have been so much better than the ones with LvG. Clearly more direct, creative and faster. Out of the other so far perfect teams, City had a lucky first win, Chelsea scored a late winner twice. Other title contenders, whoever they are, have dropped some points. Even though I would also like to point out that Bournemouth away and Southampton home - we lost both of those fixtures last season, it's the improvement in performances that is the bigger highlight. There will be ups and downs no doubt, it's the Premier League we are talking about, but the team simply looks better. Signings have been doing good and some of the players that have already been in the team before are starting to play better too.

    Well I didn't call him a miracle man but he is a proven winner everywhere. Money isn't guaranteed success and it isn't a coincidence that big clubs regularly called Mourinho to take over the "easy" job. Majority of managers wouldn't be trusted with doing the jobs that Jose has had over the years.
     
  44. Slice'n'dice

    Slice'n'dice Professional

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    He has been at clubs with good youngsters and not played them. Great sides as well of course all of them. All will have invested in youth academies and yeah it's tougher because the pressure is greater, but most managers do it more than him. Including those at the same clubs.

    I think don't mind losing is going a bit far. But yeah they are more patient. But as I say many, many managers are in the same positions and trust youth more than Mourinho. He likes old experienced players partly because of that, less likely to freeze and whatever, you know what you are going to get to a greater degree.

    Well he did well obviously. But 20 minutes of good play is not something to base your squad picks on. Think of the sort of dross that could have got in if that was the criteria.

    You also don't want to base your picks on the Iceland game as they were all awful but lots of them are good players but based on that game nobody should be in the squad which would of course be ridiculous. Hodgson's tactics as much as anything else made people suffer and underperform.

    Sturridge's goal record speaks for itself, he is quite simply England's best striker when fit, without him you could say maybe England wouldn't have even qualified to face Iceland as he set up Vardy's and scored himself against Wales.

    Kane again his record the last two seasons has been superb I'm not his biggest fan but he is a very good striker. He had a terrible Euros (as you say some of his free kicks and corners were diabolical, but I think that was Hodgson's choice) but you have to look beyond that and he is clearly one of England's best strikers.

    Vardy, I do think will turn out to be a one season wonder(not to mentioned being a racist scumbag), Rashford is going to feature a lot more in squads going forward I'm sure, however he has just had that wonderous season, he did better than some at the Euros and he did score at the weekend too. Until he starts slipping or Rashford goes on loan so therefore plays regularly and starts scoring a lot, then Vardy has to be ahead of him, he has earned that.
     
  45. Tiki-Taka

    Tiki-Taka Semi-Pro

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    The season before Pep joined was a nightmare for Barcelona. We finished almost 20 points behind champions Real and also 10 points behind second placed Villarreal. That forced us to play Champions League playoffs. Lost in the cup to Valencia and in the Champions League to Manchester United. Even in the Copa Catalunya we finished 2nd. Messi was IMO better in the season before, Eto'o had problems and so did Ronaldinho. Our top goalscorer of the entire season having 19 goals (Henry) sums it up how we were struggling. Guardiola really helped with his system, everyone flourished under it.

    Scholes? I don't remember when did you guys have problems with using him. His discipline was poor at times, but I don't remember him being played out of position or too late. He was in a more attacking role sometimes in the past from what I recall but he delivered a good amount of goals back then.
     
  46. Slice'n'dice

    Slice'n'dice Professional

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    How do you explain Federer winning 3 of the 4 grand slams between the French Open in 2009 and Aussie Open in 2010, and then winning only one more since then? These things can happen suddenly, the drop can be sharp. The money was not there to be spent for Benitez as I remember him mentioning about his inability to spend money, looking at transfers as well the only transfers Inter spent money on were for co-ownership deals just under a million for each. Plus they sold a bunch of players. Then January came and they thought ****! we're in trouble we obviously need new players better give Leonardo some money to spend (or the director of football or whatever) to try and save our season.

    Not exactly terrible results apart from Barca, and Barca can do that to any team in the world in that sort of form. Fact remains 4 points of the top and well in the race lots of managers improve once they've had time to bed in and get used to the players and vice versa, to "blame" Benitez for that is extremely harsh.

    There was plenty of title talk. When Man Utd were signing Di Maria and Falcao there was plenty of talk about it, not as much as now but plenty of talk (don't forget Van Gael was being called a genius for taking off his keeper who'd never saved a penalty in his career for a penalty shoot out). Yeah it did die down quite quick, but I remember Man Utd destroying Sunderland or someone with Di Maria really shining and some of the pundits going mad about them, looked pretty great in that game. Then it died down as the form dropped off.

    I haven't been that impressed with Utd so far, it's been easy games, lucky to beat Hull and beating a Southampton side who've been plundered once again and this time don't look like they are going to recover as well and Bournmouth a side they should beat due respect to Bournemouth. As you say though, the others haven't looked overly impressive themselves so far either so making a judgement based on such games would be foolish.

    It's not a coincidence no, as I said, for an isolated 3 year period. So people wanting quick success go to him. He is up there with the best in terms of what you would generally expect him to achieve, when you look at other factors then he doesn't look quite as good. It's also no coincidence that Ferguson did not identify him as who he thought should succeed him, obviously his choice was terrible but it's fairly obvious he wanted someone who would stay like he did for a long time and (he hoped) give long term success, on all levels youth development etc. Something Moyes was pretty good at, turned out he wasn't good enough of course, but Mourinho was available then too but he didn't want him.
     
  47. Tardigrade

    Tardigrade Professional

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    Scholes was played as a left midfielder at the World Cup 2002. Was barely used after.


    Barcelona still had a strong squad. Credit for Pep for seeing the Iniesta/Xavi/Messi trinity, but with these three in the team, you can pretty much afford to play ten year olds and win. I've never seen three players with their visions/skill in a team. Some teams, like Utd and AC Milan, were lucky to have one of those types of players (Scholes and Pirlo), Barca basically had three (and one of them was more overpowered version).
     
  48. Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil

    Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil Legend

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    Meanwhile, Aguero could be facing FA ban after the ref didn't see him elbow a West Ham player.
     

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