The TT Football Club

Discussion in 'Odds & Ends' started by Ross K, Aug 10, 2008.

  1. Tardigrade

    Tardigrade Professional

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    I don't think Ibra's lack of intensity was the issue, I thought it was because he didn't like Guardiola's tactics. In truth, if Ibra would have adapted, I think he could have had a great career at Barca.




    Barcelona never got figured out, they simply lost some matches they should have won. The only matches they were outplayed were the two legs Bayern played against them. Oh yeah they got outplayed against Arsenal, but just outplayed Arsenal even more in the next leg. Most teams have beaten Barcelona by hoping they don't score and getting a sneaky goal.



    I do fear for Barcelona once Messi and Iniesta leave. Why didn't Halilovic stay at Barca?
     
  2. Tiki-Taka

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    He definitely would have.

    Some of the teams started playing ultra defensive against us, parking the bus as some say. It irritates me when that happens in the league and if later in the season those teams just bend over for Real, disgusting. Chelsea displayed that tactic perfectly in our CL tie in 2011-12 and sneaked a win, though I guess it was justice since we sneaked the previous tie when Iniesta scored that amazing goal in injury time. Bayern were brutal. Real did very well at our stadium in the cup that season as well, beat us 3-1.

    I fear for the times after Messi (he is both an amazing playmaker and goalscorer) much more than after Iniesta. Today's win really impressed me. Controlled the game without him on the pitch. I guess we managed to recover from Xavi's departure. Halilovic couldn't break into our team, was on loan in Gijon and now is in Hamburger SV. There is a buy-back clause in his contract worth 10 million though so he could still return in a few seasons.
     
  3. Tardigrade

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    I remember watching a video on Halilovic and Odegaard a few years ago, these two are surely greats of the future.


    You can relax about Messi, he's going nowhere. As for Iniesta, he's still got 'it', which I'm glad, he can still be a force for another three/four seasons just because of his vision and passing ability. This is basically why Barca are genius; Their best players can play as long as someone like Giggs/Maldini due to the fact they don't even need pace to play football (although Giggs did, he's really an exception to the rule).
     
  4. Tiki-Taka

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    I wasn't thinking about him leaving the club soon but his retirement. If he ever returns to Argentina it will be when he gets really old.

    Yes, it definitely helps when your star players apart from being loyal have great longevity as well. Giggs was playing in many different positions over all the years. Striker, winger and I even saw him play center midfielder sometimes in his last years. Kinda preferred Scholes though, he was just unreal.
     
  5. Slice'n'dice

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    Ok so why did Inter never qualify for the Champions League after that? Up to and including last season. Why were they nowhere near that season until they spent money in January?

    It's no worse than most managers, 4 points off the top, which is how Real Madrid finished the first season with Mourinho so I can't imagine it being too different. Barcelona also beat Real Madrid 5-0 in November that year, so the similarities continue. As I think we have both mentioned though neither the players or fans really wanted Ancelotti to go so Benitez was doomed unless he was about 10 points ahead at that point. Not really much to blame for, just like Benitez having the fans on his back at Chelsea (although they were worse then to be honest), he did a good job there, won them a trophy too, but likewise he wasn't to blame there. Just the more fondly thought of man being got rid of so what could he do?

    Well Di Maria was amazing first few months in general I think having a player like him had people excited for a while, about what they could do with people like him, but yeah lost the first game to Swansea if I remember rightly, so I guess that dampened the early expectations (which there were a fair amount, people were going mad about Van Gael). While Mourinho's made a good start albeit against poor teams the wins are there.

    Well yeah instant success, but he's like an instant coffee, does the job nothing to exciting but bring what you need in the short term, but after a while you think - instant coffee tastes terrible, I want proper coffee. On the other thing - of course Ferguson is one of the best managers ever so it's always going to be unlikely tat someone is as successful as him. But these days there are not many long staying managers, after Arsene Wenger the longest serving Premier League manager is Eddie Howe, who's been there just under 4 years. Boards are less patient in general. Ferguson may not have lasted given his early record in the modern era. But given all this it's all the more important to leave a club in a good state to continue to be successful after leaving as a mark of a good manager.
     
  6. Tardigrade

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    Giggs is the only winger who's balance is comparable to Messi's, no doubts. For me, they were too different to compare. Some of Giggs' goals were Messi class. Most Barcelona fans say Scholes is simply the best midfielder the PL has ever seen. I would have liked to see him play a season at Barca just to say England produced a midfielder worthy of playing for Pep's Barcelona team (probably the highest honour as a midfielder). Most of our midfielders are grossly overrated. They wouldn't even know what to do playing in Barcelona; Scholes would simply fit right in. Maybe the only other British player capable of playing in Barca would have been Carrick; But Busquets is better slightly.
     
  7. Emperor of Belgrade

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    Maybe it's because some players didn't perform crazy good like they did under Mourinho who basically got beyond maximum out of them and also because of several others leaving to other clubs? Surely you can't blame club's sudden drop on a man who guided them to the top. He left them at the top as well. The team suddenly falling after his departure should be a sign that he clearly knew how to do his job there much better than anyone else.

    From what I remember Mou's only problem in the beginning was Barcelona while he dealt with all other opponents. Eventually his El Clasico record ended up being quite even as well. After Ancelotti, Mou was Real's best coach in the last decade or so. Real are the most impatient club so as I said previously yes Rafa shouldn't be blamed much.

    Losing to Swansea, drawing against Burnley and choking a 3-1 lead against Leicester (and it's not the miracle Leicester we are talking about) in the opening 4 games was awful. Those teams aren't something to talk about either to be fair. Di Maria was amazing definitely, sometimes I wonder how beautiful it would have been to still have him here, that would have been an awesome attacking force.

    Yep, only Wenger is a long serving manager and it's pretty much because his ambitions are recently the same as club's ambitions - low. Fans aren't really supporting him anymore are they.
     
  8. Tiki-Taka

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    I guess Giggs was Man United's Messi. :)

    It's not just the fans that applaud Scholes. Xavi called him the best midfielder in the last 20 years, Iniesta called him a living legend, Messi called him an inspiration, phenomenon Ronaldo called him a phenomenon, Ronaldinho expressed his wish to know how to pass like him... And this is just the quotes from our players, I am sure other greats gave greatest compliments to him as well. Him, Xavi and Iniesta in the midfield and Messi would have scored a hat trick or at least a brace in every game and I am not exaggerating.

    English players never seemed to do well abroad. Right now I can't think of any well known Englishman playing outside of the country, Bale being the only British. The recently retired ones I remember are Beckham and Hargreaves.
     
  9. Slice'n'dice

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    Carrick is a poor man's Alonso at best. Good player, but he is nowhere near Busquets' level, no slightly about it.

    Mourinho turned them into demi-gods and then they became normal woeful players after that? Funny how that happens. Leaves Porto and Benfica win the league, leaves Chelsea with Man Utd winning the league, and Chelsea continuing not to win the League until Ancelotti comes on the scene. He leaves Inter and they completely collapse, rally to finish the season well then never qualify for the Champions League again, leaves Chelsea the second time but not before running them into the ground, with them eventually improving to finish 10th. Seems like a pattern to me and given his preference for older experienced players and reluctance with young players the shoe seems to fit.

    The matches you mention weren't exactly terrible results. Drawing with Athletico is not really a bad result. Draws with other good sides, not that much of a problem. Only problem Barcelona, so they won every single game except Barcelona? Didn't think so. Maybe Benitez's el classico record would have improved as well if he'd had more than the one match. Doubtless it would haven given that he is an exceptional tactician.

    Mourinho best Real Madrid coach in the past decade? Maybe, he won a copa del ray, a la liga and a spanish super cup. Bernd Schuster and Fabio Capello though also won a La Liga, Schuster won a Spanish Super Cup as well. So maybe that Copa Del Ray puts him ahead, although he was there for 3 years, those two for a year each. So yeah not clear cut.

    Yeah not as keen on him as they were, he's got a fair amount of support though. Guess it's a case of careful what you wish for grass not being greener etc. He gets them top 4 every season. But I would be inclined to agree they'd be best off without him now. Top manager but it's just gone stale.

    Steve Mcmanaman is the most successful English player to play abroad. He was at Madrid when they were good but it tells you something. Think English players would benefit from playing abroad more, as would the national side, incorporating different footballing cultures into the national side could only be a good thing. Don't know why so few want to, but it has always been the case.

    You might not think you are exaggerating but it wouldn't happen. Who would protect the defence anyway with those? Scholes is great but he's not that great, probably get sent off a fair amount in La Liga with his tackling. Gerrard is the best midfielder England has produced, he had it all and he did it all playing for a worse team. Scholes had some of Man Utd's best ever players alongside him, certainly makes these things easier. Incredible player mind you, just Gerrard was better.
     
  10. Tiki-Taka

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    Yes he was very good. He was playing earlier abroad than the two I mentioned so I left him out.

    Xavi is the best defensive midfielder of them three if that's what you were talking about. However everyone attacked and everyone defended. That is how Pep's Barcelona worked, whether the opponents had the ball or not, they were under pressure every second.

    Scholes IS one of Man United's best players ever. We aren't comparing strikers and discussing who had better service. You are either a great midfielder or you are not. And for me Scholes stands out as clearly the best ever midfielder in England which is amazing considering the league had guys like Gerrard, Lampard, Vieira, Alonso, Keane, Makelele, Fabregas, Yaya and so on...

    Doesn't Gerrard have a richer history with the red cards than Scholes btw?

     
  11. Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil

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    Chelsea camp will mostly say Lampard.
    Liverpool camp will mostly say Gerrard.
    Rest of the world will mostly say Scholes.
    #ShyGenius
     
  12. Slice'n'dice

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    You can't just fit people in though to do that, the best teams don't necessarily put all the best players available in the team (unless you are Garth Crooks) as it doesn't make the best team. Possession or not, sometimes teams are going to attack you and you want the players best equipped for that about. Think Barca would be too exposed if they had those three for every game no matter how creative they'd be, and no doubt it would be amazing going forward. Messi's never got one goal every single game with all the players Barcelona have to say that he'd get at least two every game even which wouldn't happen with a composite of all the best midfielder ever is ridiculous.

    No but playing with better players makes players better. Especially a creative midfield player, you'd think a fan of a team like Barcelona would understand that. Movement of other players, the knowledge that they have that sort of ability and movement and the rest of it, it's going to affect the way you play. If you're team-mates aren't going to make the runs you don't play the pass for instance. Scholes did a few things better than Gerrard, but those things were things Gerrard was still fantastic at like passing, Gerrard's energy drive, defensive ability, goalscoring ability, heading was all better. Not to mention his leadership, inspiring his team=mates helping them believe. Scholes was a phenomenal player but Gerrard literally had it all.

    QUOTE="Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil, post: 10597636, member: 741309"]Chelsea camp will mostly say Lampard.
    Liverpool camp will mostly say Gerrard.
    Rest of the world will mostly say Scholes.
    #ShyGenius[/QUOTE]

    That's not true though is it. Plenty will say Scholes plenty will say Gerrard, a few will say Lampard.

    Zidane will say Gerrard, he said Gerrard was the best player in the world full stop. At a time when Ronaldo had just had his season for Man Utd and Messi was already an incredible player. Doubt he knows what he's talking about though he's only one of the greatest players of all time and the current manager of the European Champions.
     
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  13. Tardigrade

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    Man Utd fans - Scholes is the best
    Liverpool fans - Gerrard is the best
    Chelsea fans - Lampard is the best
    Rest of the world - Scholes is the best


    Gerrard didn't even help Liverpool win a frikkin League title. If he is better then Scholes, he helps them to at least once; Scholes pretty much won us the League in Ferguson's last year.
     
  14. Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil

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    Zidane also said Scholes is the closest thing to the complete midfielder, his toughest opponent, the greatest of his generation and that one of his career regrets is that he never got the chance to play with him. When asked how does it feel to be the best midfielder in the world, he said ask Scholes. And this is just from Zidane (as in from one person, not saying he wasn't great, he was absolutely amazing). The other poster mentioned what Barcelona legends think of Paul and there are plenty of other greats of the game that gave him such big compliments.
     
  15. Poisoned Slice

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    Banging head against a brick wall comes to mind.

    This is nothing like the LVG beginning. Reason to be optimistic because we have the players this time. Back then , with Moyes as well, it was nightmare transfer window. Even the possibility of De Gea leaving last season. Easy to say we wouldn't have won that Hull match last season, but I don't think we would have.

    Good times. :cool:
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2016 at 2:52 AM
  16. Emperor of Belgrade

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    Well imagine if those clubs continued to perform amazing after he left, you would say Mourinho isn't special, look, the new managers are doing the same thing he did. Even if we agree on him squeezing the last bits of energy from players and leaving his successors with nothing, don't forget that you said before that he always went to clubs that had the resources which made it so much easier. Well, the ones who came after him had that too but still nobody outperformed him.

    It's not really because of the Copa Del Rey that I place Mourinho above them. His Real that won La Liga broke the points record, goals record and goal difference record. All of that achieved while competing with Guardiola's Barcelona. He also got them far in the Champions League, before him there was a period of 6 or 7 years where Real didn't reach a single semifinal in the competition. It wasn't enough considering Real wanted that La Decima so much but he did a better job there than most of recent coaches.

    He really is consistent with the top 4 qualification. The fans would want a title challenge though I think. It's been a while since the year of those Invincibles. Can't remember them being in any other title race except 2007-08, with 2013-14 and last season being just minor honorable mentions. They either start choking in March-April or have a very poor start that eliminates them from the race immediately.
     
  17. Poisoned Slice

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    I would have thought somebody was trolling if they put Wenger ahead of Mourinho. That's right, though, just like tennis, it aint all about the h2h. Wenger is good at keeping Arsenal in a stable position, but never in a position to win anything.

    Fairy nuff. I disagree of course.

    And that Aguero elbow reminded me of Brock Lesnar last week. Always be aware of your surroundings. He knew what he was doing. Sinister behavior.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2016 at 3:00 AM
  18. Emperor of Belgrade

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    After all, he is a specialist in failure. :D Jose mode off
     
  19. Poisoned Slice

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    Poor Arsene got destroyed once more.

    Wasn't always like that. Back in 1999 Fergie was all ''you should have no problem with Bayern, they are not as good as Arsenal.'' Almost backfired. :D
     
  20. Tiki-Taka

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    Well I don't think Scholes being there would have exposed Barcelona. Teams tried to attack but failed many times and it is not just because of Busquets, it is because of the entire team's approach. Nobody was scoring in every single game but there are guys who had such a ratio (poor choice of words from me in the beginning). Messi at his best is one of them. The best run of his was scoring in 21 consecutive league games, which included all 19 opponents. I doubt whoever holds the record for scoring in consecutive games in England or any other country is close to 21.

    A creative midfield player is the foundation, more than anyone else. Having someone with such quality makes it so much easier for everyone around him to play. Guys in those positions are the most complete players and quite underrated in my opinion, goalscorers usually take most or all the glory.

    Scholes was a bit reckless at times but his passing was unmatched, he was a great goalscorer as well, his heading was fine for a player of his height and making teammates play better was also a very fine quality of his, even in his last years. It's not a coincidence that Man United visibly improved when he came back from retirement and once again started to struggle when he left for good and still do. The team depended on him more than he depended on the team. So far he hasn't been replaced properly despite all the recent investments, and it's no surprise as players like him are extremely rare.
     
  21. Slice'n'dice

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    It's a team game. Lionel Messi can't even win Argentina a World Cup. Or any tournament. George Weah couldn't win a World Cup either. Neither did George Best. Do you see? None of those guys are bad players, in fact they are brilliant players. But a team has 11 players in. By your logic Djimi Traore is a better player than Fabio Cannavaro as he won a Champions League and Fabio didn't.

    Besides Scholes did not win you the League that year, he played 16 games. Think Van Persie's 26 goals and only injury free season of his career had more to do with it. But again, it's a team game so it's a number of factors.
    Man Utd fans do not represent rest of the world, sorry to tell you that mate. Opinion much more divided than you'd like to think.

    Well the both get gushing praise because they were both incredible players. Nobody's arguing about that. So the fact Scholes gets such big compliments is expected. Gerrard does too. Thing is though, what Scholes was better than Gerrard at, Gerrard was amazing at. The stuff Gerrard was better at, like defensive positioning, tackling, versatility. He was miles better than him at.

    In terms of health of the club. Not to mention moulding and improving youngsters. Got a bit stale with Arsenal now but he's been a great manager. Why do you think Mourinho is so obsessed with him, because what Wenger's good at, Mourinho can only dream of, i.e. developing an improving youngsters and not causing a meltdown at a club after 2-3 years.

    No because you lay the foundations. It's part of being a good manager. As I have mentioned Inter didn't spend money with Benitez, only sold players (spent about 2 million on co-ownership deals from what I could see) probably because like you think, "we just won the treble, must be a good side" before their ageing legs were shown to catching up with them so then they spent in January,

    You know who else broke the points record? Manuel Pellegrini the season before he arrived. Got sacked though, because Barcelona got even more points. Does that make Pellegrini better than Capello and Schuster? Of course not, he did well but ultimately it doesn't matter. If you win the leage with 70 points or a 100 it's kind of irrelevant, likewise better to win with 70 than runner up with 96. Semi-finals, well fine that's ok. Ultimtely doesn't mean a lot, but yeah maybe that helps put him ahead. Not saying a lot though, just that they haven't hired that well, or given perfectly good managers the time to get it right. He got more time than most managers did at Madrid, and didn't do great all things considered.

    Well yeah you're right about that they do just choke or start badly and go on a run to make sure of top four. I agree it's probably time for him to go, but he's a great manager though, and he will have left good foundations for the next guy to come into, a young very talented team, I think it's mostly a mental issue for them and maybe Wenger can't break through that any more.


    Yeah well you're right about that, Messi is a truly special player of course, didn't know that stat but I can't say I'm surprised by that run being that long, and that's a testament to him. Personally I don't think you can really improve that midfield three no matter how good the replacement is, just think it's the perfect balance with all of them.

    Midfielders impact the game more of course, but they need the players around them more than most. People love a creative midfielder though, don't think they are that under-rated.

    It's not a coincidence no, I am certainly not saying Scholes wasn't a great player, he obviously was. Partly why they improved so much is simply because they didn't really replace him, it wasn't a great Man Utd side at the time (compared to most of their title winning sides) so he was obviously going to make a difference if he came back and fit in the role that they had been missing.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2016 at 7:32 AM
  22. Emperor of Belgrade

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    I don't think a manager should invest much if any work to how the team will look like when he leaves but only focus on the team doing well while he is there. Reinforcements are pretty much always needed no matter how good results you have. Mou did great business in the summer of 2009, I don't think Benitez can blame his inability to spend money only on someone else just one year after. Nowadays if you don't improve squads and add someone new you will almost definitely do worse than you did in your previous season. I think it can be well seen in the Premier League recently. Chelsea didn't improve their squad after winning their last title with Ancelotti and they were dethroned, not to mention how their most recent title defense with Mourinho turned out to be, it really surprised me that Mou made that mistake. Manchester United's last two titles as well, no reinforcements after winning it and they got dethroned, first time a bit unlucky to let it slip, the second time falling down to 7th. City's last two titles, no spending like they usually do and they finished distant second in the next season both times (though I find them overrated anyway, Man United and Liverpool gifted them those leagues more than they won it themselves in the first place). For that reason it's also no coincidence nobody defended the Champions League yet. Not many have learned the lesson that when being on top, you will be under pressure to repeat success again and that others will work very hard to dethrone you so you should improve yourself as well. Juventus and Bayern might be the only ones who learned that when it comes to their respective leagues. Not only do they have a solid academy and always make good changes to the team, but they love buying from the teams from their league. It's a double effect, making yourself stronger and making your league opponent weaker in one move. Their fans are trying to make them look nice by saying "our club keeps the talent within the league" but they aren't fooling anyone. The result of such policy has put Juventus in a position to go for a record breaking 6th Scudetto in a row, while Bayern already became the only team to win 4 consecutive Bundesliga titles with the streak very likely to be stretched. They are also among the biggest Champions League contenders so the superiority in their leagues isn't having a bad effect on them.

    Manuel Pellegrini got embarrassed by lower division team Alcorcon in the Copa del Rey, and it wasn't just an upset, it was a 4-0 loss. They also got knocked out early in the Champions League by Lyon. If he didn't totally fail there, maybe the league wouldn't have been a must win for him in the end (and they led the table going to the El Clasico at their home in April as well). Although Mou didn't deliver the league straight away (though I really value his record breaking La Liga, more because of who his rival was than anything else), he raised the bar in the other two competitions a lot, beating Barcelona in a really high quality cup final and being denied in a CL semi by Messi magic (though Mou would probably blame it on something else, his bad loser and it's everyone's fault except mine attitude really harms him more than anything else I think). Better record against a better Barcelona in his first season as well, 1W 2D 2L compared to Manuel's 2L.

    Also I would like to point out one fun fact about Real since there are many coaches recently that got kicked out quickly. Despite winning a record 32 domestic leagues and 11 Champions Leagues, Real only achieved two La Liga-CL doubles in the entire club history. And do you know when did those two doubles happen? 1956-57 and 1957-58, over half a century ago, crazy. There has also been a low number of doubles involving the Spanish Cup despite the club winning 19 of those. No trebles achieved ever. Today if a manager wants to succeed at Real he would basically need to raise the standards that the club had in it's entire history. Despite being arguably the greatest club in the world, Real Madrid have rarely ever been a multiple trophy per season club. Weird but that's the way it is so I believe that recent Real managers shouldn't receive much stick for whatever they have done in their time there.
     
  23. Slice'n'dice

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    Think we should maybe agree to disagree, continuously writing these long responses to each other is getting a little tiring and time consuming.

    On the last point though, an interesting fact it has to be said. Clearly Real Madrid manager are treated incredibly harshly even by modern standards of that there is no doubt. Interesting that is successive seasons. They did win the first 5 Champions League titles and those were in the midst of them so they must've been incredible back then, rarely ever not really good but obviously that's amazing, would never happen today, nobody's successfully defended it since Milan in 1990.
     
  24. Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil

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    Van Persie and Carrick contributed the most when it comes to the players who played regularly. Scholes was good when he played. RvP's last season with Arsenal was injury free, he actually made 90 consecutive EPL appearances in those peak years. Don't know if it's a record, but it's definitely up there.

    I am not even counting the praise Scholes got from guys that were related to Man United at some point as it's kinda normal to praise your colleague. He got visibly more of it from the rest. Even Stevie's former teammate Alonso called him the best midfielder in the last 15-20 years. I don't want to post quotes of other great players/managers (they can easily be found on wiki and yt) as it might sound like I am forcing you to accept Scholes as superior. We can always agree to disagree.
     
  25. Poisoned Slice

    Poisoned Slice Legend

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    [​IMG]

    Yes, please agree to disagree. I can't handle any more riveting Gerrard vs Scholes debates.
     
  26. TheMuzziah

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    Some complete nonsense on here. Yeah, Gerrard was just a charlatan coz he didn't win the title with Liverpool. His teammates were mostly ****e? Doesn't matter, he should have won it by himself, therefore Scholes is better. Lol. Like it or not, fact is, Gerrard is the best/most complete English midfielder of all time. Had everything footballing-wise and on top of that was a leader of men. Scholes was a great player no doubt but he did it all with quality players besides him and a great manager. Honestly have the doubters seen Gerrard at his peak? Was capable of things Scholes could only dream of. I can understand the Man United fans saying Scholes is better for obvious reasons (although I bet deep down most of them know they're wrong) but the notion that all the non-Liverpool fans believe Scholes was better is absurdly wrong. In fact, most non-Liverpool fans I know admit that Stevie is better then anyone England has produced.

    Also, Rafa is criminally underrated. Fantastic manager, top tactician.

    Paisley three, Fergie two. Paisley three, Fergie two...

    [​IMG]

    :D

    Cant find that quote from Xabi and don't remember him saying that, feel free to share your source.

    But anyway here's some quotes on Stevie

    “Gerrard has been my idol for 10 years and is one of the best players in the world. He is the example of what all midfield players aspire to. He has become the most influential player in England, bar none. Not that Vieira lacks anything, but Gerrard does more.” Alex Ferguson

    “I heard what Alex Ferguson said about him being better than me. He’s probably right.” Patrick Vieira

    “He is undoubtedly one of the best midfield players in the world.” Carlo Ancelotti

    “I have never seen such a complete midfielder.” Claudio Marchisio

    “I can’t think of a striker in the world who has scored so many important goals, never mind a midfielder.” Thierry Henry

    “I love Gerrard’s qualities as a player and a leader. Technically and tactically he is the best.” Gus Hiddink

    “I am a huge fan of Steven Gerrard, He has the heart of a lion. He is a player I would like to have in my team.” Kaka

    “Steven Gerrard is the best player I’ve ever played with.” Luis Suarez

    “He is without doubt the greatest player I have ever played with, he has everything. At Liverpool, he is irreplaceable.” Fernando Torres

    “Steven Gerrard would be the captain of my World XI dream team.” Francesco Totti

    And the list goes on and on and on...
     
  27. Emperor of Belgrade

    Emperor of Belgrade Hall of Fame

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    Yes, no problem.

    I wasn't born in those times so I can't have a good opinion on that myself. I have heard a lot of people nowadays saying that the first few European Cups having 16 teams in the main draw was a benefit for the biggest clubs like Real as there is less competition while some also suggested that Francisco Franco sometimes influenced the football results. I never decided to investigate that, didn't want to. All I remember was that their European Cup streak ended in the competition's 6th edition in a worst way for them possible, by losing in the first round to Barcelona.
     
  28. Poisoned Slice

    Poisoned Slice Legend

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    @TheMuzziah raises the stakes. I love it. :D

    Time for me to search for some Paul Scholes quotes. :p
     
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  29. TheMuzziah

    TheMuzziah Professional

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    Should have logged in here yesterday, seems to have died down a bit. :p
     
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  30. Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil

    Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil Legend

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    Well he was in the Premier League for how long? Were Liverpool really incapable of winning in all 15-16 years that he was there?

    As someone else said earlier, Scholes is one of the main reasons of United's success, he didn't just fall from the sky and win all that stuff by being in the right place at the right time. One of the main reasons that United have struggled recently is because he was never replaced.

    Other than the video tribute, I only found that Xabi quote on a Quora article, so it might be questionable one. Xavi saying something very similar makes me think someone might have mixed it up. If that's the case, sorry, I didn't want to cheat. :D

    Btw, do you really want to have a quote war? You're a good guy, I don't want to blow you away with all the Scholesy praise unless you want that. :p
     
  31. Poisoned Slice

    Poisoned Slice Legend

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    Gary Neville: “Paul Scholes. The best! Great player, person, friend!”

    There is my contribution. Cheers.
     
  32. TheMuzziah

    TheMuzziah Professional

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    Yes, they didn't have the quality and consistency required to win the title, every year there was at least two or three teams with better squad, more money etc. Liverpool challenged for the title three times during that period, although in 2001/2 arsenal run away with it in the end. Nearly won the title in 13/14 with Gerrard producing some amazing performances whilst playing in an unfamiliar position from January onwards (deep lying playmaker) and of course 08/09 with him and Torres up top absolutely destroying teams. In the end though, it wasn't to be. Is Gerrard at fault for that? Absolutely not.

    Agreed regarding Scholes obviously, never said he was just a jammy ******* who happened to be in the right place at the right time. However, I believe Gerrard was more complete, just a better player overall, a leader. He was able to single handedly win you the game out of nowhere, always there when his team needed him. Not to mention he missed like what two or three penalties in his entire career (excluding the ones he scored the rebound)?! And some of those were title-deciders. When the going gets tough, the tough get going. :cool:

    Fair enough about the quote thing yeah that would make sense coz I think Xabi absolutely loves Gerrard, bromance and all that. :D And no I don't want a quote war but you guys should know better next time. "All the non-Liverpool fans say Scholes is the best". That's just rubbish and it triggered me! :p
     
  33. Poisoned Slice

    Poisoned Slice Legend

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    Anything else going on in football?

    Any scandals in Colombia I should know about?

    What will Adrien Silva bring to Leicester?

    Would Joe Hart be recalled if he used Pantene instead of his current brand?
     
  34. Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil

    Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil Legend

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    [​IMG]
    Sorry, couldn't resist. :p

    Scholes was a commander in his own, non-flashy way. Any data on Gerrard's penalties? I honestly have an impression the guy took more of them against Manchester United alone than Scholes did in his entire career. :eek:

    It's good that you don't want a quote war, you'd be amazed but it saved me from making a 3 pages long post. :D In no football topic will one choice get away with all the votes. I said Scholes would get visibly more votes than anyone else from non-United and non-Liverpool related people (think it's fair to exclude both so less bias would be involved) and I am sure I am right there, to this day I am amazed that so many legends of the game rate him so highly. You don't have to agree. In fact, going against the majority shows you have a strong opinion. :)
     
  35. Poisoned Slice

    Poisoned Slice Legend

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  36. TheMuzziah

    TheMuzziah Professional

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    [​IMG]

    Gets boring after a while don't you think, it's been more then two years now. And anyway it was just an unfortunate moment could have happened to anyone. Also even if we had won/not lost that game, there still were two games remaining, one of them against Palace away which is always very tough. I think City were destined to win the league that year.

    I haven't got the stats but I just found an article from 2013, apparently his record was 31/37. Bear in mind, he has scored some of the rebounds so as I said I'm not counting these as missed penalties coz he eventually scored:p. Ironically, he missed his last ever penalty for Liverpool (but scored the winner in the 90th minute!) and his last penalty in a cup final (the penalty shootout against Cardiff - but Liverpool won!). I remember Charlie Adam missed the second as well, was a Ramos esque penalty lol.

    Yeah that's what I meant non-Liverpool/United fans but I don't think you're right. I don't have any stats or something to prove it but from my experiences most of the neutral football fans (not everyone obviously) would rather have Gerrard then Lampard or Scholes. Not taking into account Everton fans opinions, for them even Kevin ****ing Nolan is better then Gerrard.

    Yeah, that list has got Van Persie as well, who was one of the best in the Premier league. Rubbish. Plus its from 2011 ("Gerrard missed penalty against Blackburn last season"). Gerrards record improved over the years.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2016 at 12:17 PM
  37. Slice'n'dice

    Slice'n'dice Professional

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    To quote Kevin Keegan "I would love it" if he does a McClaren with England. Group's a bit too easy though. Have to wait for the World Cup for him to be exposed. Shame because they have a talented group of players, with a good manager and a bit of luck you never know. As it is the World Cup is a write off. Worst thing that can happen is he gets to the second round or quarter final and keeps his job.

    Even more unenthusiastic for this international break than usual. At least we've got the US Open though thank God!
     
  38. Feña14

    Feña14 Legend

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    Don't you just love it when the Premier League starts to get going and we have 2 weeks off so England can play Slovakia.. :rolleyes:
     

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