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Discussion in 'Odds & Ends' started by Ross K, Aug 10, 2008.

  1. SempreSami

    SempreSami Hall of Fame

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    Capello got the 'Don Fabio' nickname back in Italy iirc.
     
  2. Feña14

    Feña14 Legend

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  3. Dave M

    Dave M Hall of Fame

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    That was the one Fena, takes some nerve diving head first at the floor with your hands by your sides, J T, I salute you!
    Now how much better will we need to play to win at the weekend?:?
     
  4. Feña14

    Feña14 Legend

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    Alot! I think it's no coincidence that we are playing alot better now that Gerrard is playing with more discipline. I couldn't believe everyone was raving about him and saying he was our best player in the first two games, now he sticks to the left more it allows Ashley Cole to get into the game as he's got someone to make space. Gerrard not drifting into the middle also allowed Lampard to play and he was one of our better players yesterday (along with Terry, Ashley Cole and Milner).

    I've just looked at the route that we could hypothetically take and it looks ridiculous! Germany in the last 16, Argentina in the quarters, Spain in the semi's and then Brazil in the final :-|
     
  5. PED

    PED Legend

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    Too right! Getting Cole in the game is key, as a Gooner, I remember the good old days when he used to attack down the left ;)

    I think you boys can take Germany, Argentina(especially with their back line) and even Spain but Brazil........that's a bit of a different league.
     
  6. Feña14

    Feña14 Legend

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    Germany and Argentina are possible if everything goes right and we defend as well as we have done so far, Barry has to play extremely well against Ozil if we have a chance against Germany. We also have to take chances, against Slovenia we wasted alot (Gerrard probably should of scored, Rooney with his one on one and then Defoe should of scored right at the start of the second half after Lampard headed back in after a corner). On a good day they would of been taken so hopefully we're saving them up for the knockout stages.

    We have no chance against Spain or Brazil though I wouldn't of thought. It would be great if we could beat the old enemy on Sunday in one of those classic, tight World Cup games. I said I thought we were a round of 16/quarter final team so if we could make it to the quarters then we will of had a pretty good tournament, although our slow start meaning we only came 2nd in the group has made it alot tougher to reach that target than it probably should of been.
     
  7. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    Yeeees - England are through!... Congrats USA too!...

    Morning TTFCers!

    Well, work got in the way of being able to watch most of the first half and distracted me a little during the second (I was not a happy bunny! :evil: )... but, from what I did see, that was surely a bit more like it? :)

    Good performances from Terry, Defoe, Rooney (so unlucky not to score), Milner, Matthew Upson (played really well, didn't he?), and even Joe Cole (who... "cough, cough"... btw went to my old secondary school I'll have you all know :roll: ) - Joey boy finally got a bit of an outing (and played pretty terribly I thought until he did that tactic in the last few minutes of taking the ball down to the corner flag and wasting lots of precious seconds!)...

    Lots of chances and pacey play, later giving way to that pretty horrendous, agonizing, tortuous nervy latter period familiar to all England fans... and... oh no!... we'll doubtless have more of that in store against Germany!...

    Nobody say the P word, right!... (By which I refer to the dreaded 'penalties'!... :eek:)

    Kudos to USA too I reckon for coming first... PED, if you're reading this, how's the world cup mood in the States? Are people getting excited? I think the team deserves some 'bigging up' from its countrymen...
     
  8. Meaghan

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    its interesting that the best team i saw in the 90s was Capello's AC Milan team who beat Barca 4-0 in th '94 Champs league final.

    I say interesting as he played a 4-4-2 most notably was the midfield that played in a bank of four but who were all interchangeable of position, with no extreme pace, just comfortable on the ball. The four AC midfielders were Albertini and Desailly, Donadoni and Boban. Boban like Gerrard the most creative of the four played on the left but because it was a disciplined flexible unit it worked. Milner fits into this ethos too, solid and reliable first but with the ability to be creative when necessary ala Donadoni. Desailly for Barry and........ Albertini for Lampard (hmmmn??)

    Savicevic I remember up front behind someone with pace, was not unlike rooney.

    Gotta say they had a much better defence tho !!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqcIA9rTylk
     
  9. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    Meags,

    Yep, interesting thought ^^^... I, too, remember that awesome Milan team!...

    Q. So who was AC's version of Emile Heskey though?!:)

    R.
     
  10. Meaghan

    Meaghan Hall of Fame

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    Ha yeah, just looked it up and Massaro was the goalscoring line leader, more robbie fowler than Heskey.
     
  11. Meaghan

    Meaghan Hall of Fame

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    Barca also had Ferrer and Nadal playing for them !!
     
  12. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    I confess I don't recall this Massarro.

    Amazing players used to be in those AC sides for sure though - Gullit & Van Basten going right back, Savicevic (?), the incomparable Maldini, Donnadonni, that rugged defender who also played for years and years (can't remember name now), Albertini, Dessailly, Lentini (okay - never lived up to rep, or big fee), etc...

    But can it be Cappello is attempting very similar kind of thing with England as with his CL-winning side?... yep, thought-provoking...
     
  13. Meaghan

    Meaghan Hall of Fame

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  14. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    No, craggy faced, central defender destroyer, Capt of Italy, around for ever he was... mind has gone blank!

    Savicevic was slightly frustrating but exhilaratingly dynamic, skillful player (Serbian?) who always galvanized the crowd.
     
  15. Meaghan

    Meaghan Hall of Fame

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    Beresi.....superb :)
     
  16. crosscourt

    crosscourt Professional

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    I think it was Baresi. He was superb, though not as good as the great Aldo Scirea (sp?).

    England need to play with more energy and purpose if they are to get past Germany.
     
  17. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    ^^^ Yes, it was Franco Baresi,,,:roll:

    BTW, what the rubber duck has happened to Italy???!!... "Holy world cup catastophe, batman!":shock:

    BTW2, Do ppl reckon England should play the exact same starting line-up as against Slovenia?
     
  18. Feña14

    Feña14 Legend

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    I've been saying from the start that Italy had no chance, I expected them to get out of the group but an early exit isn't all that much of a shock. They really don't have an awful lot at the moment, meaning they had to choose older players who are past it (Cannavaro, Gattuso, Zambrotta, Pirlo, Camoranesi etc..). The attack they have at this World Cup has been called the worst for 50 years, if only Lippi wasn't too stubborn to pick Miccoli, Balotelli and Totti.
     
  19. NickC

    NickC Professional

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    Don't forget Cassano!
     
  20. Feña14

    Feña14 Legend

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    Too right! Lippi hates him for some reason.
     
  21. PED

    PED Legend

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    Yes, why mess with success.

    I loved defoe up front and thought milner was good deal more effective than SWP or Lennon.

    Not sure about Upson though, but Terry seems comfortable with him which is important. Maybe start Cole instead of Rooney but we all know that will never happen.
     
  22. Feña14

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    I'd make just the one change, Upson out and either King if he's fit, or Carragher to come in.

    It was interesting that Terry switched to the right side of central defence against Slovenia, a position he hasn't played very often. King plays on the left for Tottenham so that would work well if he's back for the weekend, if not then Carragher is someone i'd feel confident enough in.
     
  23. PED

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    I'd love to see Rooney really catch fire, he's about due and it would be great to watch against the Germans. I saw Schweinsteiger might not be fit.
     
  24. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    ^^^

    Yes, don't know who should partner Terry... apparently Upson had worryingly shaky start at beginning of Slovena match (I say 'apparently' because I missed most of 1st half due to work - grrrr! - and therefore missed this nervy early display and only saw his latter, imo very impressive display...), I'm a big L. King fan (concerned about his fitness though), and think Carra is a very sound player too (but a bit slow on the deck when dealing with speed-merchants...)

    Re Terry though... and I know it sounds like I'm some fan-boy now - though if you go back a few weeks with the posts you'll see I expressed reservations and doubts about him... well, I think he was absolutely fantastic against Slovenia (and wasn't bad in the other games too)... an immense performance... a real, dare I say it, 'Captains' performance... and we are sure going to need that against Germany, right?
     
  25. crosscourt

    crosscourt Professional

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    We need a line-up that gives us some drive. Rooney is dropping too deep because there is no-one running the ball out of defence through the middle of the field (at least in the matches I have seen). But with Rooney deep there is no-one to make space for England to play in. Passing the ball out isn't England's strength and even if it were we still need someone to run the ball through the middle to prevent the other side defending too easily. This is why I am sceptical about Gerrard playing off Rooney -- because he could give the side more drive playing deeper. I would almost prefer Lampard to play off Rooney. If Gerrard brings the ball forward and Rooney plays high, that may give Lampard the space he needs to play in. He can't make it himself and without it he adds too little to the team.
     
  26. Dave M

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    What about not starting with Rooney?(I know shock) but he has brought nothing to the games so far and they clearly don't know how to play to him for some reason so lets use him as a super sb in the second half. Much as it pains me to say but couch/Defo up font will give the german defence a run around then let Rooney play with 35 mins to go?Just a thought......
    Not sure what the best line up is, I would go with Upson his second half performance was very good always going to b nervey at the start but he''s better than Carragher these days.
     
  27. SempreSami

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    Like Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeak would do any better :roll:
     
  28. crosscourt

    crosscourt Professional

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    Rooney is the best English player. He seems not that well in himself physically. But I wouldn't drop him. It would give Germany a huge boost.

    cc
     
  29. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0WdGEZ9rqM

    Funny vid of Capello getting heated on the touchline... note the way he keeps whacking S. Pearce and the other bloke (looks like he does it quite hard too - ouch!):shock: ... "Pass the ball!... pass the ball!... pass the ball!"... Come on!.... come on!... come on!".... "Go!... go!... go!...go!"... er, okay, Fab...:roll:
     
  30. PED

    PED Legend

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    Wow, what can you really say. That got ugly in a hurry.
     
  31. NickC

    NickC Professional

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    Rooney should play attacking midfield, like he did a few years ago at Man United. He'd be great behind a duo of Defoe and Walcott or someone like that. Gerrard and Lampard shouldn't play in the center, have Barry do that and leave Stevie and Frank to operate from the wings.

    SWP is trash, he has no international future - it's painfully obvious.
     
  32. SempreSami

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    Lampard and Gerrard operate the wings, are you on crack?
     
  33. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    Pathetic... shameful... humiliating... the worst England World Cup performance I've ever seen... Capello must go - NO QUESTION ABOUT it... and take those dreadful, over-paid primma-donnas with you.

    'Clueless' over-praises the performance.
     
  34. crosscourt

    crosscourt Professional

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    I agree. It was appalling. Well done though to Germany who make the most of their resources. They showed England for what they are -- one paced, one dimensional lacking in technical ability and unable to control even their own restarts: in other words not very good. Germany's exposure of the limitations of our back four was ruthless. As for England some good may come out of this. With any luck it will be the last time Terry plays for England. He has had his abilities and his deficiencies measured very accurately in this World Cup and has been exposed for what he is. More likely though our media and the FA will prefer to blame this on Capello.
     
  35. NickC

    NickC Professional

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    Naw, I had a bit too much pale ale this morning though, and my cousin had some *excellent* grass with him. But yeah, something has to change, why not let them play a la Becks, delivering all kinds of passes from the sides of the pitch and not the inside? The way the countering game works these days is through the wide areas, and speed isn't exactly the only way to stretch defenses (as Iniesta demonstrates, acute passes are awesome at splitting defenders), and both Frank and Stevie are excellent passers, so why not let give that a shot?
     
  36. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    Talking of ppl being on crack...

    IMO... bottom-line is England were SO bad, the manager HAS to go.
     
  37. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    More snippets from the net that I mainly agree with:






     
  38. crosscourt

    crosscourt Professional

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    The question about the manager isn't as easy for me as it is for you. I agree that had we not got out of the group stages he would have had to resign.

    But coming into the tournament Capello was lauded for having brought England through the qualifying campaign so smoothly. His predecessor didn't even manage to get the same England team into the European Championships (though he has now shown his ability in Holland and is in demand in Europe as a manager). Before him, Eriksson, did about as well as Capello has done this time. So why do we think that with a different manager our team could do any better? The evidence suggests that "last 16" status is about right for the England team.
     
  39. PED

    PED Legend

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    The scariest part of Spain's goal today is that the three involved (Villa, Xavi and Iniesta) will all be wearing a Barca shirt next year.

    Nice to see positive, attacking football winning out against a dull (slightly negative) Portugal.
     
  40. SempreSami

    SempreSami Hall of Fame

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    Throw Messi into that equation and there'll be some goals.
     
  41. PED

    PED Legend

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    Wow, I forgot about him :)

    It's official now, everyone featured in that Nike advert has now bombed out of the WC: Drogba, broken arm, Rooney(the less said the better), Ribery, Cannavaro, Ronaldo, and Ronaldhino didn't even make the squad. Looks like it was the kiss of death. Schneider should be glad he wasn't in it ;)
     
  42. Storm_Kyori

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    how much of a chance does Holland have of beating Brazil?
     
  43. FLA10s

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    I know you werent asking me but id say a pretty good chance.
     
  44. FLA10s

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    FLA10s - man utd.

    Represent.
     
  45. Feña14

    Feña14 Legend

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    Hopefully i'll be watching the Nadal v Murray semi when it's on :)

    Holland have been ok so far but Brazil have been alot more impressive, they've handled the pressure pretty well.

    I hope Holland can give them a good game, but at the moment I can't see anything other than a Brazil win. I'll go with a 3-1 win with Robben scoring one of his specials.
     
  46. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    England manager situation...

    A quick perusal on line of the latest re the England manager situation shows Hodgson has either signed now for Liverpool or is a whisker away from it. Which means Redknapp will almost certainly be offered Capello's job very shortly - which is pretty much a disaster if you're a Spurs fan! :eek: ...

    Then again, according to something else I came across, one of the board who'll decide and who is a very close ally of the Chairman, the all-around dodgy-seeming, highly suspect "Sir Dave" Richards :shock: (engineer incidentally of the ridiculous clause to pay Cap those extra millions should his contract be broken), has come out and leaked Capello should be given another chance because it will cost too much to pay him off, and the reasons for England's world cup implosion weren't all of Fabio's making...

    So Redknapp to be England boss?... someone else should step in?... Cappello should actually remain in post? :confused: (This prospect completely defies belief as far as I'm concerned.) ... what's the feeling around here gents?
     
  47. Feña14

    Feña14 Legend

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    Do you think it's possible that Redknapp could still manage Spurs at the same time? It wouldn't be the first time a manager has stayed with his club whilst managing the National side.

    It might actually be beneficial for the manager to still be involved in the day to day buzz of the Premier League, Capello seemed to be a bit out of the loop.
     
  48. bezs

    bezs Legend

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    Definitely do stand a chance Brazil are heavily favoured for the match and for the first time this tournament Holland are not. I can see this going into extra-time but i believe Holland can nick it.
     
  49. crosscourt

    crosscourt Professional

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    I think Redknapp would be the wrong choice. He is an excellent club manager in the Premiership. But all the talents that make him so good at club level seem much less relevant for an international manager. I think Cappello should probably stay.

    cc
     
  50. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    Agree about Harry multi-tasking and Cap being out of touch...
     

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