The US Open was a setup............

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by NoBadMojo, Sep 17, 2004.

  1. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    so they setup the courts really fast for Roddick and provide really light fast balls most suitable for roddick and he still loses..and beaten at his own game to boot. that was great! like he'll do well at the oZ which is an upbounding slower court and W and then the French? kiss him bye until the next Open or maybe the Matress Mac where ******** will rig the courts for him too and continue to scorn fed.. roddick is so one dimensional. I hope he keeps losing so tennis maybe can return to more than serve/forehand . Ed
     
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  2. Drinking already, Ed?.. LOL :)
     
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  3. mlee2

    mlee2 Rookie

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    Roddick loses and you still complain about "rigged, unfair" setups?

    Get a life. I'd tell you to go out and party but it seems you've already had a bit too much of the 40s.
     
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  4. thomas martinez

    thomas martinez Professional

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    Fast? Actually ALL players were comign in saying the courts were playing slow and actually dropping their tensions until the wind picked up, which had some players all messed up and not really knowing what to do..
     
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  5. clownsuck

    clownsuck New User

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    I heard the opposite. They were playing as fast as a grass court, the first week of court. I am sure the wind and Dementieva's serve slowed everything down a tad though that 2nd week :)
     
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  6. clownsuck

    clownsuck New User

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    btw, i don't think anything was a set up.

    I think there are way too many checks and balances in pro sports for the biggest sporting's even in the nation to be a set up now-a-days.

    I'm not the conspiracy type. I do believe in Murphy's law however. Seems like that has happened a lot in tennis lately.
     
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  7. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    oh ok..so you are saying the USTA doesnt set up USOpen conditions to favour the US? and DavisCup host countries dont set up the court surfaces to best suit their players styles?...cant be I guess..and they were gonna hard court over the clay at Daniels Island in Charleston for this Davis Cup anyway right? gimme a break. articulate post LordRaceR and MLee i wasnt complaining and you are always rude.
     
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  8. rhubarb

    rhubarb Hall of Fame

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    Henman reckoned that the courts at the USO were playing twice as fast as Wimbledon. That's probably a reflection on how slow the grass is now, as much as how fast the courts at Flushing Meadow/s are.
     
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  9. larrhall

    larrhall Semi-Pro

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    I think there was a difference in speed between Ashe and the other courts. The commentators mentioned that a few times. There was also an little segment of McEnroe chatting with Robinson or McAtee, quoting Pat Cash on how 'slow' the courts were and how heavy the balls were. John said he didn't agree, thought the courts were fast and then commented (accurately) that when you hit 35 or so perceptions of those things change.

    And I think McEnroe's own continuing very high playing level - according to Daniel Nestor he could still play men's doubles on the circuit - gives support to his comment about Pat Cash's view.

    I also recall Tim Henman saying how light the balls were...I think it was Henman.
     
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  10. ZhuangCorp

    ZhuangCorp Rookie

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    I think i heard on television Mcrenroe said that while Wimbledon messed up the courts for Tim Henman, the Us open got the balls and court to perfectly favor Roddick. I wouldn't say the Open is "rigged", nobody is guaranteed a win, but i think they tried to favor the American a little on purpose.
     
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  11. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    now we're makin sense Zhuang. courier said the same thing. the surface set up would have also favoured serena and lindsey i think. courier and mac have a lot more repect than cash for sure especially by their peers. as far as players scurrying to get less tension in their stringjobs at the open, that happens with heavy weather conditons certainly not the balls. it was humid and not sunny for part of the event....strings arent as responsive in those conditions and feel kinda dead, especially gut. so when it got windy and the sun came out and the humidity went away, the balls were flying again.
     
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  12. Free_Martha

    Free_Martha Guest

    Tennis sure would be boring without Roddick around for all the morons like Ed to hate on all day long.
     
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  13. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    add free martha to the list of rude and ignorant people... anyone else wishing to come forward and further expose their ignorant self? knock yourselves out.
     
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  14. clownsuck

    clownsuck New User

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    I would say yes they do choose/layer surfaces to favor their players for Davis Cup as do all countries.

    To use a term like 'set up' makes it seem like it is like betting on baseball, or there was some sort of malice involved. I think all tournaments are looking out for their players but I still disagree with any sort of wrong doing by the USTA.

    But if that is the sort of think you look for, then go with it.

    *shrugs*
     
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  15. AceRbn15

    AceRbn15 New User

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    Stupid.

    Everything is a conspiracy right mojo? These posts just get dumber by the minute. From the constant Roddick bashing, to the Federer worshipping. Then, you have the nerve to say everyone is out to get you with their rude and obnoxious selfs? I'm sorry mojo, you make yourself look worse and worse with every stupid post you add. The U.S. Open is a fair grandslam. (If you couldn't tell mojo, fair was emphasised for a reason) Now stop hating.
     
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  16. Tim Tiger Henman

    Tim Tiger Henman Rookie

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    I think it is fair game for a tournament to adjust their surface as they see fit. So why the heck is Wimbledon getting slower and slower making a Henman victory less and less likely!??!!? There is such a thing as being *too* fair.
     
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  17. rhubarb

    rhubarb Hall of Fame

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    Yes, I agree that the AELTC are too fair in slowing down the courts too much. I guess they just wanted to avoid a boycott by the claycourters.

    Mind you, I doubt a *faster* Centre Court would have helped Henman this year against Ancic...
     
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  18. Tim Tiger Henman

    Tim Tiger Henman Rookie

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    Maybe not,
    but it would be nice to see a serve-volleyer put up some kind of challenge to the unstoppable machine that is the Fedmiester. The only way that can happen is if they speed up the courts somewhat.
     
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  19. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    add ace to the list of rude and ignorant people. the term setup was just done tongue and cheek and with no malice whatsoever, and i would suggest to you that it is you that are exhibiting hate for i did nothing to you. i am only responding to people who are personally attacking me because i think the courts were 'setup' to advantage roddick and found irony in that roddick was thumped at his own game. i dont hate roddick either..i dont know the person..i just dont happen to like his game..nor do many others. pretty simple.
     
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  20. Datacipher

    Datacipher Banned

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    Yep, I think that's exactly right. You would be very naive to think this doesn't enter anbody's administrative head when a Roddick or Williams or "insert American here" win means millions of bucks more to them. However, there is no way to prove it and it's their court and tourney to set up the way they like, there's nothing "wrong" with that. Of course it's not Roddick's fault either, I doubt they give him direct input into it. Like you said Zhuang, it doesn't guarantee anything, all players have to adapt to the conditions each year at every tourney so they are used to it.

    It'd be nice if they could set up a precise rating system for ball and court speed and then specify where a tournament is going to fall. Then there would be less debate and everyone going in would know what to expect and it would be a way to quantify the difference between even different tourneys of the same surface! Plus it would provide consistency from year to year, so players who won would always be winning the "same" tournament. Having said that, weather conditions are a huge factor so there would still be a lot of variance.
     
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  21. Shaolin

    Shaolin Hall of Fame

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    You speak the truth Ed, the USTA surely chose the surface to compliment Roddicks game as much as possible, and I think its funny as well with him going out as unceremoniously as he did, beaten as his own game as you say.

    BTW, Im getting a little sick of anyone who has a different/unfavorable opinion of a player getting called a "hater" by 100 people every post. I know "hater" is a really popular word right now and youre looking for any outlet to use it, but hate is a strong word. I really, really dont like Roddicks game and its made worse by the stupid way he acts and the constant media coverage he receives, but I still dont "hate" him.

    Hate would be wishing he would get the Ebola virus, or his plane would crash, and I dont wish that on any player no matter how unpleasant their game is (even Gimelstob). Hes probably a decent guy, I just dont want to see his boring and unexciting game every chance possible, which is what the American media forces on us.

    thanks
     
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  22. Tim Tiger Henman

    Tim Tiger Henman Rookie

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    Great post Shaolin. BTW you don't want to reconsider on Gimelstob do you??
     
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  23. chad shaver

    chad shaver Semi-Pro

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    Not sure I understand why you would do the inflammatory post, call someone a "********" (even if it was Mattress Mac)and then get upset when you get flamed.
     
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  24. Shaolin

    Shaolin Hall of Fame

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    LOL Tiger Tim--

    Gimelstob has 3 steps left before I reconsider:

    1. Starts wearing Pat Cash headband or Ivan Lendl Mullet-hat.

    2. Starts using PD or PD+ (If hes not already).

    3. Starts wearing Reebok Roddick clothes (either 2003 or 2004 styles), trucker hat or Nike sleeveless shirts*.


    *Note: Nike sleeveless shirts are not intrinsically bad, just not accepable on Justin Gimelstob.
     
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  25. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    chad i could understand if i got flamed by mattress mac himself, but i wasnt flaming anyone that personally attacked me, and i never say anything bad about other posters unless they insult me first. posters cant expect to insult me and not hear something back. and as you say it was mattressmac afterall who seems to be pretty much universally disliked and has been called lots of names on this board without being retaliated against..in fact, people most usually added more flames. you all can search for little discrepencies and imperfections and ways to misinterpret and twist so you can crawl into little dark spaces and be mean all you want if it somehow makes you feel good.
     
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  26. chad shaver

    chad shaver Semi-Pro

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    Are you including me in the "you all" category?

    Besides, what we all need around here is ANOTHER, original anti-Roddick or "the USTA/Pmac/_________ loves/______ Roddick post"
     
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  27. Datacipher

    Datacipher Banned

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    I lose a lot of respect for anyone as soon as they start saying "you're a hater". That's pathetic.

    It's an insult. Nobody uses that term in a positive manner.

    It's meaningless. It expresses no opinion about the particular subject.

    It's a silly label, meant to belittle your opinion by implying that you are hateful person and that you must hate all kinds of things. Of course the irony is that in using it you show you either don't have or are unable to express any rational opinion yourself.
     
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  28. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    yes chad i guess i was lumping you in with those people that look for the smallest of opportunities to try and demean someone as you reinforce by your comments w. your last post. so to summarize, you say something negative about me using the rationale that i was getting flamed for an anti inflammatory remark about mattress mac, but the reality is i was getting flamed for entirely other reasons. so i stated the us open was set up favourably for roddick and got flamed..when a couple other knowledgable posters added credence to my statement, i was then flamed for seeing the irony in roddicks loss to the same playing style and his pure drive game..when shaolin covered my back on that one (one of the good guys here), you evidently must find some other little dark hole to ridicule me with so you bring up my matress mac comment, thus actually being the first to flame me for this..it makes no sense other than you must feel some sort of need to try an belittle someone at any cost. so thats cool if it makes you feel good. actually prestige classic had it mostly right when he asked me if i was drinking :) i probably wouldnt have put that moniker on the mattress mac if i hadnt been into the Ketel1. so now someone can come forth and proclaim me an alcoholic for drinking K1 on a Friday night if they like. so i get called a hater by a person that calls me a moron or stupid or an idiot because i express a viewpoint with a twist? i think those people are the haters. i wonder why so many of the good people leave this board. i wonder why so many of the knowledgable posters leave this board....actually i know why they do.
     
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  29. chad shaver

    chad shaver Semi-Pro

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    Just a few things:

    1. I don't recall ever flaming, demeaning or belittling you. I will say that your syntax was unnecessary, just like all the other profane monikers placed on players on this board.

    2. A lot of your response directed to me seems to be in response to other people. You need to explain to me where I said something demeaning to you.

    3. I never called you a name, said anything rude or suggested that you return to your "dark hole" or whatever, but you did so to me, because I voiced my opinion.

    4. You used the term "setup" to elicit emotional responses. You succeeded and are unhappy with them. Now you're angry with me for pointing this out to you.

    5. Exactly how many anti-Roddick threads do we need?

    6. No matter what it is that you're angry about which would cause you to dip into the Ketel on a Friday night and post a thread (at nearly midnight) about an event which ended five days prior, I had nothing to do with it. I drank way too much for way too long over a personal problem several years ago, so that's not a judgement; it's an observation.

    7. What, exactly, is an "anti-inflammatory remark"? Would that be something like, "Go Tylenol yourself"? Maybe that's something like, "Take two of these and call me in the morning". Admit it, Ed. That one is funny. :lol:
     
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  30. yee

    yee Rookie

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    Absolutely. Thanks for this post.
     
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  31. Aoya

    Aoya Rookie

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    Mojo, in the course of your rationale, it seems to me you strike as a hypocrite of sorts.

    Roddick does not point fingers at you, so why must you point fingers at him? He doesn't say he hates your uninspired game (or whatever it is that you really said) so why do you do it of him? The double standard treatment certainly exists.
     
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  32. magiset

    magiset New User

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    Bush and Blair are Roddick's pals, but that doesn't mean that I think Roddick should be locked away for life for war crimes like Bush and Blair. In this perspective, I believe Roddick to be almost a saint.

    Long live Saint Roddick! Even if he does twist the ethics of tennis inside and outside the court like a lawyer; he's not a politician at heart.

    Bully for him, the little rod-sod.
     
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  33. mlee2

    mlee2 Rookie

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    "Hater" is a slang term people. Jeezus.

    Language changes over time and the definiton of "hater" does not literally really mean 'to express utter contempt for someone.'

    "Hater" simply means that you enjoy posting negative attributes simply for the sake of being negative and not actually being constructive or for the sake of a logical argument. (which btw is the worst kind of poster if TW is truly supposed to be an intelligent forum).

    Ed, I find it really hard to believe that you have double the years of "wisdom" over me (you're above 40, right?).

    Perhaps us "rude and ignorant" people are slamming you because, oh I don't know, YOUR POSTS ARE INANE!

    Most of the time, you have absolutely zero logic in your arguments along with posting the same tireless pundit drivel over and over again with extremely little or no evidence at all.

    If I posted extremely dumb arguments (even if most "smart people" percieved them to be true) without any evidence, then I would expect to be ostracized and made a fool of just as well as you constantly are.
     
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  34. Datacipher

    Datacipher Banned

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    Your definition is the same as I described. So wouldn't you then agree Mlee that if somebody is actually beging negative for the sake of being negative and does not have a logical argument, it would be better to respond by pointing out his lack of a logical argument and clearly highlighting his flawed reasoning rather than resort to a derrogatory blanket slang insult?

    I'd say it would be better to simply not respond at all then simply respond by calling someone a hater. If you do that you have gone even lower than his negative illogical arguments by dropping down to slang name calling.
     
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  35. devila

    devila Banned

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    Here I am thinking:
    Federer makes me wish that I could create the most perfect, humble, charming, handsome, graceful, balletic, longest living tennis player ever! Such a saint should not be bothered by an evil Roddick!
    Wahhhhhhh :x:(:(
     
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  36. mlee2

    mlee2 Rookie

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    Right, Data. Agree with everything you said.

    Chad points out Mojo's (Ed's) flaws perfectly and no matter how inane or "heated" these discussions get, remember people: this is just a forum.
     
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  37. Datacipher

    Datacipher Banned

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    OK, but no group hugs.
     
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  38. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    Word definitions aside, I thought it was common knowledge that the host country would try to make conditions as favorable as possible to the best player from that country, i.e. Roddick, Davenport, Williams. It's been done for years.

    I was initially surpised when Wimbledon decided to slow things down to attract the claycourters. Thinking about it, Wimbledon had to do something or lose its relevance among the Grand Slams. Any time top players begin to skip a tournament, you have to consider it a trend and the folks at the AELTC were probably trying to stem a tide. The claycourters were satisfied that they had a concession and began to come back. And, they pretty much lost in the first two rounds any way. But, everybody is apparently satisfied that they have a victory.

    The USTA will try to accommodate the top players any way it can within the limits of $$$, meaning that as long as it doesn't interfere with revenue, they'll do pretty much whatever. Witness the demise of Super Saturday and birth of prime time women's final. That was done soley because of the Williams. I'd bet you a dollar to a doughnut that this year's women's final had some terrible ratings and if the networks could forecast the same next year's final, we'd return to a Super Saturday format.

    I also agree on the unfortunate use of the word "hater" when applied to anyone who has something negative to say.
     
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  39. chad shaver

    chad shaver Semi-Pro

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    Well stated, rabbit.
     
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  40. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    chad not that i owe you an explanation but i was out having fun with friends on a friday night. i am sorry you had a drinking problem (i dont) and am pleased you have fixed that. you make some false assumptions.
     
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  41. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    I don't understand, Mojojojo, how was it set up?
     
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  42. larrhall

    larrhall Semi-Pro

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    My view is that the vast majority of Ed's posts have been fun and helpful and informative. Nobody's perfect. It is a pattern on these Boards that a person can write five positive posts to one negative, but if they write enough posts people will come out of the woodwork to shred them for the negative. When I say 'shred', I mean just that. They rarely object to the post itself alone but proceed with a full-scale dismissal of the poster.

    If the Mojo critics were fair, they would think and respond to what Ed said in the original post. Objectively, he's right. Every host country in every Major tries to set the courts and balls to favor their leading players. Sometimes, it works, sometimes it doesn't. The Aussies tried to help Pat Rafter out in Melbourne for years, but the Rebound ace can only be changed so much. The heat and humidity obviously were too much for Pat, along with the home country expectations. Then he came to New York, in conditions more or less ideal for Pete Sampras, and won twice. Expectations were less, weather is actually easier in New York than in Melbourne in January, courts are faster and take away time from the baseliners to pass him. So it's no big deal that they try to set the conditions a certain way.

    I would love to see a rule on Message Boards that people need to post a certain number of 'positive' posts before they can assign themselves experts on the flaws of others. Obviously, there's no way to do this, but...
     
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  43. Tim Tiger Henman

    Tim Tiger Henman Rookie

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    Actually no!! Wimbledon doesn't. And they should!!

    So I actually agree with you guys. I think its perfectly fair for the tournament organisers to tweak the surface as they see fit. As long as they don't hide the fact, and as long as they don't make too sudden a change in any one year.

    As we saw, it doesn't always work to their advantage. And also just look at Henman - Semis in French & U.S. , but bummed out at Wimbledon.
     
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  44. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    You mean you're not Henman?

    [​IMG]
     
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  45. Tim Tiger Henman

    Tim Tiger Henman Rookie

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    You mean you are not Rickson Gracie?
     
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  46. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    thanks larrhall..i was wondering if anyone would stepup. it's appreciated, especially considering that you and i have disagreed in the past. you never took any of it personally, and that certainly is a great reflection upon your good and honorable nature. i do know that i seem to have a way of inciting the troops if i phrase a post a certain way, and i'll try and stop that. it does however seem to expose some posters who show their true colours. it really is such a minour thing and i find it amazing it would create so much negativity, meanness, and so many personal attacks (none of this references chad by the way), and people looking to find little things to twist and misinterpret and look for ways to be mean to others. my post was harmless and not matched to all the spiteful negative things it spewed forth. other posters certainly post far worse about roddick than I, and dont get attacked..in fact, they often get supported. sure i prob wouldnt have posted the post the way i did if i hadnt been havin fun that eve, and oh my god drinking! i just was chuckling about the irony of the usopen conditons and how roddick was beaten at his own game under conditions custom tailored for his game, and it spawned a memory of how mattres mac was behaving and rooting for roddick because a fellow teaching pro and i were speaking of the very same thing that night. i certainly hate noone but dont claim to be this perfect person..i could build a hatred case for osama and some others murdering tyrants i suppose. anywho, there are far better uses of one's energy than slamming other people and i hope people dont come at me because of what i am writing here...but if they do they do. ed
     
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  47. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    I'm not Rickson Gracie, but I am a good fighter.
     
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  48. kevhen

    kevhen Hall of Fame

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    Most courts looked smooth and fairly fast in person, but hard to say without actually hitting on them. I forgot to run my fingers on them so see how much bite they have at the US Open, but they looked very smooth and fast but consistently so.
     
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  49. @wright

    @wright Hall of Fame

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    For the record, Gimelstob and his partner won the CHina Open doubles title. har har. Stop belittling Ed, he knows some mean people who like to take rides on planes...You people who say tournament venues don't tweak surfaces to favor individuals/ countries are as naive as the paint job nay sayers, wake up and smell the whiskey!
     
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  50. chad shaver

    chad shaver Semi-Pro

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    Don't think anyone said that tournaments don't tweak the surface. We all know that the Germans did for the year-ending championship in Becker's hayday.
     
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