Theory: Kevlar is better for club players than poly

Discussion in 'Strings' started by The Dark Knight, Sep 29, 2013.

  1. glovesaves35

    glovesaves35 New User

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2013
    Messages:
    82
    Kevlar has a bad rep i think. No its not for everyone but what string is? For what its worth I used pro blend all throughout the 80's in my Graphite 110 then in the cts approach 110. Had them strung between 72 and 75 lbs. 20 years later my arm is still attached to my shoulder and still functions well enough to swing a hammer at work every day. I just started playing again this summer after a two decade layoff and had a helluva time keeping the ball in the court until I went back to the kevlar. No arm pain again. To each his own boys and girls...

    And I dont know diddly about poly but I do regard Chicago Jacks opinion on strings very very highly. So if he says the poly info in this thread is nonsense then it more than likely is.
     
  2. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    7,543
    The problem with his statement is that he did not back it up with any counter evidence. Simply stating "BOGUS!" and then walking away isn't exactly good enough.
     
  3. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    Messages:
    6,340
    Update:

    Still hitting with the kevlar mains & gut crosses mix .

    I have seen no loss in tension or playability.

    By this time my poly set up would have been quite dead.
     
  4. brokenRPM

    brokenRPM Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2013
    Messages:
    199
    Location:
    tw@gmail.com
    for me, travelerjam's ashaway zx and kevlar is the second best combo. the best is kevlar and poly. but it only lasts for 1 set. then the poly dies. so travelerjam's combo is definitely the best.

    kevlar and gut sucks.
     
  5. brokenRPM

    brokenRPM Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2013
    Messages:
    199
    Location:
    tw@gmail.com
    i strung up my racket with kevlar and zx last week. never used it. i think i will cut it out. the arm pain is just not worth it.
     
  6. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    Messages:
    6,340
    Zx ???? That's a good thing you did not use it. I use gut and kevlar.

    I just tried gut in the mains and kevlar in the crosses .....pretty damn good !!!!
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2013
  7. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    Messages:
    6,340
    From tennisthis.com

    "Kevlar: The grandfather of all tennis string lifers. Kevlar is by far the most durable tennis strings on the market, it takes a lot to get them to reach the “dead zone”. I’m certain that your arm will begin to hurt long before you feel like you need to change the strings. *Do not use kevlar strings if you have arm problems"

    Read More http://www.tennisthis.com/dead-tennis-strings/
     
  8. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    Messages:
    6,340
    Well I played 2 more sets tonight ....

    The strings still feel as fresh as the first day I put them in .

    My hypothesis is turning into a conclusion !
     
  9. greg280

    greg280 Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    181
    totally agree although I am finding 4g to be decent in the maintaining playability dept. I break alu power in 4 hours in an 18x20 pattern frame. I love alu power but that's why I play the lottery. I string myself, but its still expensive restringing every 3rd or 4th outing. I have a frame strung with ashaway 16 and alu power in crosses mid forties and I love it.
     
  10. greg280

    greg280 Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    181
    oh, been doing the kev. alu power hybrid for several years, no arm problems at all.
     
  11. Vcore89

    Vcore89 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,902
    Location:
    The synapse
    Kevlar? No way. If I have to stop using a full bed of poly (which I don't need to because I also carry 3 racquets strung with a full set of Bi-Phase and sometimes NRG at 66 lbs. everytime) then I would definitely go with Bi-Phase for good. Gut? I break it the way I do with the NRGs and X1s, what's the point of paying for more?
     
  12. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    Messages:
    6,340
    Really ???? I have never broken a cross string in my entire life....even gut.

    Remember I use kevlar in the crosses and gut in the mains.

    Is poly better ? Yes it is but only fresh.....after just one match poly plays completely differently while the kevlar gut combo is fresh as a daisy.

    I've been playing a lot of tennis since I first posted this thread and the set up is still as fresh as the first day I strung .

    No arm problems whatsoever . The gut in the crosses gives a super nice feeling . It's like sitting in a plush Cadillac.

    I think I'm really onto something.
     
  13. Vcore89

    Vcore89 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,902
    Location:
    The synapse
    I don't have much arm problem with a full bed of Poly (and I restrung them weekly; not broken) but with the NRGs and X1s, man, on average it'll be done before the match is over but I like them (not even talking about the sub 10 minutes I've broken so many times). Pacific Guts are plush but I'll stick with Barbie's VS ThermoGut (though strung with it very sparingly). Never a fan of half and half.

    I'm more of a Bimmer guy.
     
  14. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    Messages:
    6,340
    Well to each his own.

    Don't get me wrong .....I love poly. I just got sick and tired of it playing differently in every match.

    The kevlar just seems constant . I can rely on it .

    If you are able to restring after every match then there is no substitute for poly.
     
  15. Vcore89

    Vcore89 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,902
    Location:
    The synapse
    Off-topic, shouldn't you be an Aventador fan being TDK?:)
     
  16. dman72

    dman72 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2006
    Messages:
    1,997
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Kevlar plays softer without much if any loss of control in every subsequent hitting session until it breaks. It was never elastic in the first place, so there isn't much to lose or gain. That's also the reason that low tensions work with Kevlar. No trampoline effect.

    You can have kevlar hanging by a thread...like half sawn through..and it will be playing great until it finally snaps. You can't say that about any other string. I've had Kevlar main/poly hybrids going on 6 months. Just wax up the string bed and you're good to go for a few more weeks.
     
  17. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    Messages:
    6,340
    Wow thanks for that! Especially about the lower tensions.

    This waxing stuff sounds cool as well. I know nothing about it. What do you wax with ? I heard some people use w40 as well or a silicone spray.
     
  18. Stevo Karlovic

    Stevo Karlovic Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2011
    Messages:
    226
    Location:
    Phila, PA
    It's naïve and downright uninformed to suggest the same old adage regarding polyester strings' poor tension stability, as a rule of thumb. The biggest thing happening across the entire string industry today, is the amazing strides being made in extending the tension life among the latest polyester strings. I'm really sick of the whole, "well, poly goes dead after one match, so.... you know, it sucks for a club level player". Crawl out from underneath your collective rocks folks. Jeepers...
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2013
  19. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    Messages:
    6,340
    Wow.

    Look everyone is entitled to their own opinion .

    I personally think poly changes drastically after each match. I got fed up.....this is my personal opinion .

    You think poly last for a long time ? Ok that's your opinion and your entitled to it......

    Truthfully I think if you asked most people they would say that poly plays differently after a short time .

    Why would this anger you? I mean I can understand if someone was attacking Federer or something ......but we are talking about the characteristics of polyester strings..... It's an inanimate object!

    How can you possibly get emotional over this ? Relax dude.
     
  20. Sander001

    Sander001 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,382
    Location:
    In the place where there is no darkness.
    I don't see anger but if it is, probably mad at your ignorance, not strings.
     
  21. Tennis Fanatic 070

    Tennis Fanatic 070 Banned

    Joined:
    May 14, 2013
    Messages:
    1,165
    TDK, you should really leave the string section alone, why don't you start another Nadal fanboy thread and get the hell outta here.

    Have fun with your kevlar gut combi, congrats with the fact that this works for you, but pls don't think it works for everybody, it emphasizes your ignorance yet again.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2013
  22. travlerajm

    travlerajm Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    4,415
    Count me in the kevlar > poly camp.

    With fully prestretched kevlar/mgz, with kevlar at least 10 lbs tighter than the zx, I get better all-around performance than poly from day 1. And it plays the same without noticeable tension loss until the kevlar starts to break.

    The key to avoiding tension loss is knowing how to prestretch. I patiently pull a 20-ft length of kevlar until the relaxed length grows by at least 2". And I pull a 20-ft length of mgz until the relaxed length grows by at least 20".

    The tension stability of poly can also be much improved by prestretch, but pretretched poly still can't compete with prestretched kevlar/zx for stringbed stability. When I prestretch a 20-ft length of poly, I usually pull until the relaxed length grows by at least 4".
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2013
  23. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    Messages:
    6,340
    Thanks for that.
     
  24. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    Messages:
    6,340
    As you can see a lot of people feel poly goes bad quickly.
     
  25. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    Messages:
    6,340
    I don't know about created edges.....bit I read somewhere that all that stuff about hexagonal shaped string and rough strings is b.s.

    It's to smal to make any real difference and after a short time it goes away.

    However I found the Prosupex blue gear to be indestructible and provide more topspin than any other string.....having said that..... The feel is horrible. I wonder how blue gear would play with a gut mix ?
     
  26. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    12,571
    Location:
    at the bottom of every hill I come to
    I have set a calendar reminder to revive this thread in one year. Let's see how the arm is fairing then.

    ;)
     
  27. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    Messages:
    6,340
    Rabbit,

    Your here a lot . I respect you . Do you think a full bed of poly is softer than kevlar and gut hybrid ?
     
  28. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    12,571
    Location:
    at the bottom of every hill I come to
    Thanks a lot.

    Like I posted earlier, I have never seen anyone's relationship with kevlar work out. That's more than me and more than me stringing that stuff up. It damn near ruined my arm...and yes, when I played with it I strung it at 65 but...I was using Pro Blend.

    With regard to a comparison with poly, sure, you can find polys that are as "impactful" as kevlar on your arm; i.e. there is a lot of shock on ball impact. But, unlike kevlar, there are firmer and softer polys. I was using Luxilon 4G and truthfully never liked it in a fresh string job. It always felt better toward the end of its life, four like 4 hours before it broke. I don't think I was stringing it too tight as I put it in at 45.

    Now I'm using Prince Tournament Poly and Synthetic Gut @ 58. I love it. The difference between the two in terms of feel is amazing. The Prince string is softer, has "real" feel, and doesn't lack in any other aspect when compared to a fully poly job. It is also about 1/5 the price.

    Now for the bad news, as soon as I find a string I adore in this frame, Prince sees fit to DISCONTINUE it. So, in an act of pure desperation, I bought two reels of the Prince Tournament Poly 16 gauge. I figure Prince will never discontinue the Synthetic. Anyway, given the shorter length of string required for the 99S, I figure I have about 90 restringings in the two reels. :) I was going to buy more, but then figured one of two things would happen. Prince would just rename Tournament Poly and put it back out maybe under a different color, or....I could find something like Dunlop Explosive which I have a reel of and is fairly cheap.

    I do think, despite Wilson's advice to the contrary, that I've found my go to setup for the foreseeable future in poly mains and synthetic crosses. Most importantly and in order, it feels great, I play well with it, and it's easy on the wallet.

    From somebody who's been there, just be careful with kevlar.
     
  29. Vcore89

    Vcore89 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,902
    Location:
    The synapse
    I can agree that the rough and hex strings is not (noticeably) a whole lotta difference.
     
  30. phanker

    phanker Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2013
    Messages:
    184
    Hey Rabbit. Thanks for the insights.
    I've too been struggling to find the right string for my Steam 99S. Actually, I've found it with some polys but as soon as I did, the elation would literally disappear the very next day.
    Sadly, the 99S seems to really accelerate the quick life of most polys I've tried so far.
    Very curious to try your kevlar hybrid but to my dismay, I can't order it from TW now.

    How arm friendly is it with the 99S? I imagine it might be more forgiving with the open string pattern.
    How durable is it compared to another poly you were using?
    Any recommendation of other similar Kevlar combo I should try?
     
  31. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    12,571
    Location:
    at the bottom of every hill I come to
    You mave have misread. I don't use Kevlar. I use the newly discontinued Prince Tournament Poly & Prince Synthetic Gut @ 58 pounds (in sig).
     
  32. phanker

    phanker Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2013
    Messages:
    184
    wow. my bad. Thanks.
    How durable and consistent is that hybrid for you?
     
  33. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    7,543
    I can't believe this thread is still going on.
     
  34. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    Messages:
    6,340
    Thanks for that. And it does scare me and I take it under strong advisement.

    I do think I may have found a solution . I use an 18 gauge Kevlar but a 15 gauge babolat gut. This set up I find very very soft.

    The poly is GREAT but I honestly find that in a very short time the strings change.....it's like every time I go out on a court it's a different string job.

    I get what your saying about dead strings,,.......I actually like dead strings as the trampoline effect is lessened......but even dead poly just plays differently every time. It drives me mad !
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2013
  35. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    Messages:
    6,340
    Like Kevlar it hangs by a thread :)
     
  36. Stevo Karlovic

    Stevo Karlovic Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2011
    Messages:
    226
    Location:
    Phila, PA
    There is not a Kevlar string on this planet that will not turn one's elbow ligaments into confetti. The softest Kevlar string ever produced is PACIFIC Powercraft 18 (1.10mm), which is still 5X stiffer than the world's stiffest polyester string, Babolat Revenge 16. 5X!!!
     
  37. Stevo Karlovic

    Stevo Karlovic Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2011
    Messages:
    226
    Location:
    Phila, PA
    "I actually like dead strings as the trampoline effect is lessened......"



    Oh sweet heavens.... is this opposite day or something? Trampoline effect is a direct result of dead strings! Holy underwear!!
     
  38. firepanda

    firepanda Professional

    Joined:
    May 11, 2012
    Messages:
    1,423
    Location:
    New Zealand
    Agreed. Only because anything is better than poly for club players. Poly strings have the expiry date of a banana. I used kevlar for a bit because I was frustrated with how much I was breaking strings. It worked and I still use them on my spare racquet, but I would go to bed aching all over.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2013
  39. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    Messages:
    6,340
    Thanks for that. I am worried....but so far I have no problems.

    Rabbit did string I think a full bed of kevlar at 65 though ....not sure if full bed of kevlar.

    I'm string at about 55 with kevlar and gut.
     
  40. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    12,571
    Location:
    at the bottom of every hill I come to
    I love it. It plays like a poly set up but feels like a synthetic gut set up to me. It doesn't lose too much of the playability, but then I used to use 4G and BHB7 until they broke. So I don't share TDK's experience with poly.

    That said, you cannot buy the 17/16 prepackaged hybrid any more. If you want to try this, you can still find 40' packs of the 17 gauge Prince Tournament Poly. I bought a couple of reels of the same string in 16 gauge to last me. Prince has discontinued the string.

    You can never get too much of a good thing. ;)
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2013
  41. phanker

    phanker Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2013
    Messages:
    184
    I concur with the 18kev/15gut combo. Tried a fellow club member's stick with that setup and thought it was really plush surprisingly. He strung it at 42/48. Only issue I saw was the mains moved a bit but he had it strung for over a month and was playing almost daily.
    That got me thinking I should try kevlar next after having tried some many soft polys without success with feel durability and consistency.

     
  42. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    43,446
    Um...no, it's not! String up a 120 sq. in. OS racquet with fresh natural gut at 30 lbs. and you'll have trampoline effect up the wazoo! The bigger the racquet and the lower the tension, the more trampoline effect you'll have regardless of the type and condition of the string, but the more resilient and more elastic the string, the greater trampoline effect you'll get.
     
  43. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2010
    Messages:
    6,591
    I'm so confused about this post? If you're not breaking strings why are you using either poly or kevlar? It just doesn't make sense.

    -Fuji
     
  44. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    Messages:
    6,340
    Kevlar and gut mix.

    Poly is awesome when fresh but after just one match the performance drops significantly .

    Kevlar although initially not as good as poly.....plays better over the long haul.
     
  45. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    Messages:
    6,340
    Same reason as the pros do.....topspin .

    Both are low powered and you can swing for the fences and still
    Keep the ball in .
     
  46. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2010
    Messages:
    6,591
    Lets say you're an average club player... You don't swing fast enough to justify poly. There is just no point in using it. Topspin isn't hard to generate if you have halfway decent technique. Realistically, the extra top you get from poly vs a multi or syn-gut can't be more than 15% tops.

    I just don't understand why you "need" so much extra spin from a dead string. If you want to swing for the fences, just swing more low to high. You'll get your extra spin and you'll get a heavier ball. IMO it all boils down to technique.

    -Fuji
     
  47. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    Messages:
    6,340
    Oh you are right .....there is no string that is right for everyone .

    But if you like a dead string like poly and your not going to cut it out after every match or so then I think Kevlar and gut hybrid is a better choice because it's playability lasts so much longer.

    I found another trick that I really love.....you can actually get tons of topspin from an all gut set up as well.......

    All you need to do is put string savers on every other main. So that one main has all string savers from top to bottom while the next is completely "naked".

    This forces the ball to get "wedged"
    Or "sandwiched" between a looser main and a tighter main.

    Id like to say it's my idea but I got the idea from a YouTube video.

    Having said that I really do like low powered strings . Again I love poly .....I'm just sick of it going bad so quickly.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2013
  48. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    Messages:
    6,340
    Well it's official now......

    My theory is now my conclusion......

    The Kevlar gut mix has turned out to be great. It plays the same today as the first day I strung it.

    I will never go back to poly again....I can't believe it!

    I've also started to experiment with string savers and I'm putting some wild spin on the ball.

    I put the savers on every other main and the spin is incredible.

    I got the idea here....it really works!

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gJnSFdHqkrg&desktop_uri=/watch?v=gJnSFdHqkrg
     
  49. ServingAcesSince1995

    ServingAcesSince1995 New User

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    29
    I had the same issues with poly's being unusable after a few hours. My solution was stringing at a higher tension then wait for it to loosen up after a few hours of play. I play with Genesis Black Magic 16 gauge and I string at 51 lbs. My ideal tension is 47 lbs. After 3 days of play, I get the ideal tension and it lasts a looooooong time - It's been 1 month and counting. I used to break synthetics every week ( 9 hours of play).

     
  50. ServingAcesSince1995

    ServingAcesSince1995 New User

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    29
    I also played kevlars too because I breaking string so much. I tried it once, never again. It plays like a brick.
     

Share This Page