Theory: Kevlar is better for club players than poly

Discussion in 'Strings' started by The Dark Knight, Sep 29, 2013.

  1. The forehand

    The forehand Rookie

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    Didn't HunterST post a similar thread.
     
  2. Shroud

    Shroud Hall of Fame

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    My 2 cents is that you can go lower in the kevlar tension and also string the crosses lower than the mains. Maybe 45-50 for the kevlar and 35-40lbs for your spiky. That should help with the ball staying on the strings longer, and some spin increase too.

    And ditch the syn gut for crosses...
     
  3. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    Agreed 100 percent.
     
  4. PMChambers

    PMChambers Professional

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    Thanks, it's definitely not the string for me then. If anything I felt the supporting syth was too soft and needed tightening so the kevlar would not deflects as much.

    I cut the kevlar out and restrung with Spikey Black Shark @ 60lb. I really like it but it loses tension fast and I don't like restringing all the time.
     
  5. graycrait

    graycrait Rookie

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    Just try Ashaway Kevlar 16G at 65 in the mains and Ashaway X Pro in the crosses at 60lbs. I have that hybrid set up in Volkl C10 Pro, Volkl Organix V1 Midplus, Volkl Organix 10 Midplus, Wilson 95 BLX. I have given up on poly, co-poly, multis, etc. No arm pain and I hit with some young DKI and former DII players. Just give the combo a shot and tell us what you think.
     
  6. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    Give it a few more weeks...it will play completely different and you will think its because of your strokes. Truth is poly is good for a very short time...couple of matches and then restring.

    Just loom at this site...countless threads..."best poly ever" and then they switch...never understanding that poly was not meant to be used for a long time.
     
  7. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    Hate it. But to each his own.
     
  8. hyperion99

    hyperion99 Semi-Pro

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    I remember reading Agassi's Biography he switched to Kevlar/Poly(Luxilon) at the end of his carrer. Food for thought.
     
  9. graycrait

    graycrait Rookie

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    Don't know why some would hate Ashaway 16G at 65/63 x Monogut ZX Pro 17G at 60 unless one puts some hours behind the combo. Works for this 60 yr old trying to keep up with 20-40- something young power spin players. If I could afford or care to change out poly daily I would probably use poly. I think kevlar x zyex works pretty well.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2014
  10. PMChambers

    PMChambers Professional

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    I cut it out and went to Spiky Black Shark @ 60lb. It felt better nearly straight away. I personally don't care about the type of poly but prefer dead poly and buy on price. I hit significantly better off the ground with poly, but I think I could get something similar with kevlar if I strung the nylon crosses at 65lb, 60/65 Kevlar/syth instead of the 58/60lb I used. I did not like the rebound I was getting, it was too deep, flat and more than enough power, unfortunately it was past deep too often. The only point of going to Kevlar was I like poly at 60lb and at this tension it goes soft too fast for my liking,not only the cost to restring but the hassle to get it organised. I really need a string machine but that wont happen in my current address which is near to nothing. Kelvar might work I'm not overly string sensitive as long as it's dead.
     
  11. graycrait

    graycrait Rookie

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  12. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    I think I'm famous here for my reasons.....don't need to post it yet again :)
     
  13. Shroud

    Shroud Hall of Fame

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    Infamous is more apt.

    Have you tried the zx yet? Also IIRC you arent a stringer so even if you try it, I am guessing the stringer wont prestretch anything right. They will just do a light stretch to remove coil memory and not to actually prestretch the string.....

    Its why ashaway doesnt work for you...

    Have a good holiday
     
  14. graycrait

    graycrait Rookie

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    ??????? ???????
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2014
  15. Shroud

    Shroud Hall of Fame

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    Plan to sting some rackets...5 I hope with different differentials up to 50lbs. I plan to measure tension and tension loss. Or I will just get drunk :)

    Happy Holidays and hitting!
     
  16. graycrait

    graycrait Rookie

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    I enjoy stringing rackets too, just to try out different stuff. I have found that my stringing suffers when I include my dry red wine "hobby," so try to string well before I pop a cork:)
     
  17. Shroud

    Shroud Hall of Fame

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    LOL.... I often string drunk! There was some wild turkey aged Imperial IPA that was 13.5% alcohol and helped me string :)

    Unfortunately racket tune doesnt work for me so I have to use the string meter to get a sense of tension and tension loss.

    Looking forward to all day stringing. It takes me forever though as I go slow and try to be consistent.

    Also, kevlar on a constant pull is tedious if you try to get the same number before clamping!!!
     
  18. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    No ....Ashaway doesn't work for me because it defeats the whole purpose of kevlar.

    It loses way too much tension.....I might as well use poly.....loses less tension than the Ashaway and plays better and is safer on the arm.

    Happy holidays :)
     
  19. Shroud

    Shroud Hall of Fame

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    you too!

    prestretch addresses the tension loss!
     
  20. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

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    When I'm drinking a frame takes me about 25 min. It's amazing that my quality doesn't drop that much. I guess that says a lot about my sober stringing LOL!

    -Fuji
     
  21. Shroud

    Shroud Hall of Fame

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    Man I hate you!:)

    I swear it takes me nearly 2 hours a frame.

    Well maybe not that much with the frame in the stringer, but add in the prestretching, etc and its soooooo frigging long.

    The kevlar doesnt help either. I use a Wise head and like to clamp when the reading is identical. It over pulls because I use the prestretch option on the machine and the kevlar takes a while to relax to the right number...if you miss it (because you are drunk and see something shiny) you have to wait even longer....
     
  22. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    Let's agree to disagree.
     
  23. graycrait

    graycrait Rookie

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    Doesn't prestretching turn the string into "old" string? When I string ZX (zyex) string I want the liveliness that it has to be muted by the Kevlar. Snap back seems good too. If I wanted to play with "dead strings" I would just prestretch some cheap poly and be done with it and my arm.
     
  24. Shroud

    Shroud Hall of Fame

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    Not sure myself, but trav seems to say stretching helps with elasticity.

    Anyhow if you prestretched zx you know how much it stretches. Its crazy. I for one cant hit with a springy string bed. Liveliness is not a good thing for me. YMMV.

    If you dig that just use gut, it should be better in that regard, but spin not so much.
     
  25. graycrait

    graycrait Rookie

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    I tried gut x Kevlar but didn't like it near as much as non-prestretched ZX. I pre-stretched ZX a couple of times and understand how much it stretches. Its elasticity seems to me what it makes work x the Kevlar. Full ZX doesn't work for me either.
     
  26. Shroud

    Shroud Hall of Fame

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    Me neither (OK I never tried it as a full bed, but I am guessing it wouldn't- Gut/zx was ok so maybe a full bed would work).

    You may be right as they are opposites, however I wonder what happens to the ESP effect when its not prestretched. Thats a lot of tension loss on the crosses to have, but I am sure that you can compensate with tighter tensions. Its all kind of the same IMHO.

    Me I like the feeling of power I get when the string stretches at my hands! :)

    And I like a dead feel in the strings myself....But I dont thing the prestretching actually makes the zx DEAD. From my experience the zx doesnt die, but fades away after the kevlar snaps....

    Yes it is a HERO for Shroud so ZX gets the "just fades away" speech honor.
     
  27. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    I can't resist....sorry shroud.

    Graycrait.....you read my mind.

    Yes that's exactly what happens. When you pre stretch the Ashaway it becomes completely dead, lifeless and powerless ....... I Hate it ......travlerajm and shroud on the other hand want exactly that .....

    However doing this defeats the purpose of Kevlar......why not just play with Poly? It's safer on the arm , becomes just as utterly dead and actually produces more spin.

    I personally would rather use a "normal" behaving Kevlar like Forten that holds its tension forever and plays lively forever ......it's the reason I switched to kevlar in the first place .

    Kevlar with the exception of Ashaway holds its tension and playability and produces almost as much spin as poly......poly on the other hand has a bit more spin but goes bad very quickly.....exactly the same as ASHAWAY

    I just don't see the purpose of using Ashaway as its more dangerous on the arm and has tensions loss equal or worse than a poly .

    The only reason to use kevlar in my opinion is because of its extended playability while having almost as much spin as poly.....if you pre stretch you just ruin the entire purpose of switching to kevlar in the first place and you put your arm in a little more danger.
     
  28. Shroud

    Shroud Hall of Fame

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    Well I must commend you on digging yourself into a corner and consistently following your position now matter where it takes you, even it its way off the mark...

    Haven't tried ZX yet have you? If so you would understand Gray's post!

    Maybe he will chime in but I think he is talking about zx and not kevlar.

    And FWIW Ashaway is probably less dangerous than other kevlars because its not as stiff and dude all kevlar is DEAD prestretched or not.
     
  29. graycrait

    graycrait Rookie

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    I have tried a number of polys and co-polys but they kill my wrist in short order. With Kevlar and Zyex I get spin, muted and controllable power with some decent touch at the net, durable playability and No arm pain.

    I tried 3 different kinds of nat gut in various set ups but found that the lively zyex gave me what gut did but in better ways when strung with the kevlar. I ordered some more 17G zyex while still having a reel of 16G.

    I may give Forten a try again and who knows, I may have been too hasty with my judgment of Forten. I may even again try a full bed of ZX or ZX pro but strung up at around 70lbs to see if that tames that lively string. Zyex is a famous string instrument string these days along with gut.

    I may need to try some dead on arrival poly in the mains, with zyex crosses to see how that works, vs Kevlar mains x zyex crosses - I have enough rackets:)

    Maybe it is my racket choices at age 60. My everyday go to rackets are a pair of Volkl V1 Pro Midlplus's, next are the 8 or 9 Wilson 6.1 95's 16x18 which vary in weight from 10.9 - 12.4, a couple of 2012 C10 Pros when it is windy I have to play a big hitter and when I am feeling froggy a Volkl Organix 10 Mid (93" x 12.3oz. I have a weighted up Head Ti6 at 11.5oz strung up at 70lbs in the mains with Kevlar x 50lbs in the crosses with zyex. Oh, yeah I have a couple of other Heads, a Prestige and a Radical, strung up similarly to the rest with Kevlar and zyex. Sometimes I just like to take that big headed Ti6 and flail away away at the ball, other times try to lazer the the 93" Volkl. If I have to play doubles and my partner has a yen to winning I take out the Volkl V1 Pros. I've got a few other rackets too. If I had to stick with one racket type it would be the Wilson 6.1 95 BLXs. I have 12 or 14 rackets strung up with Kevlar x Zyex and two with 16G nat gut x 15G syn gut in case my arm starts to fall off.

    I laugh, yell, encourage partners and opponents equally and have a big time when I hit the courts. I "ain't going to Wimbledon" and I know it.

    Why so many rackets, so many strings? Sort of like shooting firearms, playing disc golf or regular golf. Different tools for different objectives and for me, tennis is all about having fun, and getting better each time at playing the ball, not letting the ball play me.
     
  30. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    I must commend you on twisting facts so out of shape that no one knows what the hell you are talking about.

    Prestrecthing in general deadens all string. Do you think that zx is the only string on earth that is pre stretched? Do you not pre stretch ashaway?

    Now kevlar is as dead a freshly killed body but pre stretched kevlar is as dead as a 5 year old rotting corpse.

    No I have not tried ZX and therefore I'm not commenting .....and yes Ashaway may be safer than other kevlars but it's not as safe as poly and produces less spin than poly.....so why not just play with dead poly?

    Ashaway defeats the whole reason to use kevlar I. The first place ....if you want a string that loses tension really fast and plays dead why not just use poly instead of Ashaway ?

    Your silence is deafening.
     
  31. Shroud

    Shroud Hall of Fame

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    I dont think prestretching makes a string any deader. I think it makes it more consistent and precise. And there are some companies that prestretch their strings at the factory...

    I dont use poly mains because the kevlar is stiffer, which I like and kevlar lasts longer in terms of durability and tension maintenance. Its a more consistent string bed than poly. Your kevlar wont suddenly play vastly different than it did the last time out.

    Its possible that people just like the strings to do more of the work. Some of us like to hit with a lot of RHS, and a string that is low powered and spinny is what we need. Some of us dont "like to hit hard"...
     
  32. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    Pre stretching damages the fibers of the string.....the reason you feel like it's more precise is because it has lost some of its power ...it is less "lively".... As it has less power you are able to control it more..... you can achieve this with poly as well the same as with your Ashaway ..... Prestretching ashaway is like playing with a month old bed of poly....however ipoly is not as dangerous and you get even more spin. On the other hand playing with most other kevlar brands....you don't need to pre stretch and the string remains the same for what seems like forever and plays constant....Ashaway behave like poly just less spin and more dangerous.

    Think about it....what happens when you play a lot with a string? It stretches right? All you are doing by prestrtching is simulating actually playing......you are turning new strings into used strings to make them play dead.

    The beauty of kevlar other than Ashaway is that it is gut like in tension loss....my favorite Forten loses only 8 pounds of tension and it stays that way!! And it doesn't break....just lasts forever.......I don't need to prestrtch at all because I can have it strung exactly and it stays exactly the same every day! Kevlar already plays very dead and other than Ashaway you can be far more precise and don't need to ore stretch.

    Ashaway on the other hand is like poly..... Because it loses a whopping 28 pounds of tension just like poly and plays different everyday you are forced to pre stretch the same as you would with a poly so that it plays constant or as you say "dead".

    This defeats the whole purpose of why I use Kevlar....if I wanted what you have I would just use poly.......you are doing all this work when you don't need to.....just try a normal acting brand of Kevlar that is exact and constant everyday and you will have more power and just as much control instead of playing with completely and utterly bone dead strings.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2014

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