There are barely any 90 inch frames now

Discussion in 'Racquets' started by Duzza, Nov 15, 2006.

  1. Duzza

    Duzza Legend

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    I just did racquet finder and there was the nSix-One 90, Yonex RDS, RDX and MP-Tour 1. Add to that the new Aerogel 100, kSix-One 90 and Prostaff 85 still only 7 frames to be out there. It's pretty sad. What are we going to do? Also, the Prestige line....
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2006
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  2. bcsax123

    bcsax123 Semi-Pro

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    FXP Prestige Mid, PC 600, all actually 90s.
     
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  3. Duzza

    Duzza Legend

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    Oh yeah, forgot about that. It was cause I used the Racquet finder and set it to 85-90 they aren't included.
     
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  4. Davai

    Davai Semi-Pro

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    Rdeondo 93, somebody said that it was actually 90 si.
    Also the MP Tour 1 and RDX don't count they are discontinued.
     
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  5. Duzza

    Duzza Legend

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    RDX is still for sale....I can find MP Tour's pretty easily...
     
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  6. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    companies manufacture products based upon what sells and stores stock products based upon what sells...tennis racquets arent a new invention, and there is accurate recent history as to what sells and what doesnt. if people were buying 90 headsized frames in enough qty, there would be more choices. in spite of the opinion of some TW posters, companies arent usually stupid. also know that TW stocks pretty much everything available....doesnt PK have a Redondo Mid which I think they are making a couple hundred of for the whole country?
     
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  7. SFrazeur

    SFrazeur Legend

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    I do not think that the problem is that there are not enough Mids, but the problem is that there is not a substantial variety in the mids that are available. They are all very similar, at lest on paper. The only one that is a departure from the others is the Yonex mids with 16x18 string pattern. (And the whole square head shape Yonex thing.)
     
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  8. Duzza

    Duzza Legend

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    Yeah agreed.
     
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  9. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    two quick searches of the TW racquet finder revealed:

    there are 14 options for midsized frames of the current models (headsize below 95). a couple of these 14 arent really current production frames and the Redondo Mid really isnt available in any reasonable way

    there are 251 options available amongst current models for racquets with a headsize of 95 or larger
     
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  10. bad_call

    bad_call Legend

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    i feel your pain. i wanted a 90 to fill the gap between the PS 85 and LM Rad 98. guess i won't be emptying my wallet on another racquet anytime soon. :-(
     
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  11. anirut

    anirut Legend

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    Wait for 2007 and order the Dunlop Aerogel 100 from Europe. That's a 90 sq. head. May be a tad too light at 330 grams strung.

    But, hey, the 19 cm beam, 16x19 pattern looks interesting.

    I'm keeping an eye on this stick. May be will have to ask my nephew in Germany to get me one of this Aerogel 100.
     
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  12. Davai

    Davai Semi-Pro

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    Well the only place that I know of that carries midsize Yonex's is TW, and they don't have any MP Toues left. The RDX can't last forever with the RDS being around.
     
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  13. El Diablo

    El Diablo Hall of Fame

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    What are (we) going to do? Are there really players out there who lack the skill to play well with a 98 or 100 square inch frame? Who ARE you people? The 90s are dying off for the same reason cars with carbueretors died off....because something better came along.
     
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  14. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    Check out the Prince tour NXG (92") or Diablo (93" I think)
     
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  15. anirut

    anirut Legend

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    Well, carbueretors aren't high-maintenance. You can remove it and clean it all by yourself. And it lasts and won't get short-circuited.

    Ever driven cars with carbs? Or cars with twin carbs? Ever tuned them?

    So, what's wrong if we, the 90 sq. in. head-size lovers, love to play the small head size? WHO ARE YOU to preach?
     
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  16. SFrazeur

    SFrazeur Legend

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    Well then, using your implied logic of 98-100s are better than 90s then 110's are better that 98-100s.
     
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  17. alan-n

    alan-n Professional

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    This carburetor vs 90" mid sized racquet analogy is silly. Its up to the player to be able to handle them and adjust no matter what the situation is. In that manner 90" requires honed techniques and strokes that still require adjustments by the player.

    If you are going to make a car vs racquet analogy. 90" frames would be your formula 1 car and tweeners would be your formula 3 car. They are all high performance, requiring a high level of skill to play with. With the formula 1 you have a higher degree of tuning and more things that can go wrong if you don't maintain your playing level and stokes.
     
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  18. Duzza

    Duzza Legend

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    What El Diablo?? How the hell is a 98 inch frame BETTER??? I have no idea how you came up with that. I enjoy the maneuvrability of 90 si. frames in comparison to 98, that's all. 98 makes me feel like I'm cheating somewhat.

    Anirut- I saw the Aerogel 100, but if it's only gonna be in Europe, it's pretty tough to buy it blindly.
     
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  19. anirut

    anirut Legend

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    Looking at the specs only, I should think it will play like a flexier Asian version of the Tour 90 (19 mm beam, RA 63, 315 gram unstrung). Don't know about the SW though. Guess it should be around 315 - 325. Dunno, just a guess.

    Hope it has that soft yet solid, thuddy Dunlop feel to it.
     
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  20. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    valgamedios! anirut, you cant possibly believe that fuel injection is more maintenance than carbueration (sp?) , especially twin carbs. the maintenance on fuel injection is typically zero unless you want to every 25,000 miles or so dump a container of the fuel injector cleaner into your gas tank. maybe by maintenance you are meaning easier to repair if something breaks?
    i've owned several sports cars over the years with dual carbs..they were either Stromberg or SU carbs and had cars with both downdraft and sidedraft carbs, and every single one of these cars required getting under the hood and tuning the carbs often because they sure wouldnt remaining purring for very long. the standing line was 'drive em' once and tune the carbs once'. i remember a simple device called the Unisync <or something like that> which would help you match the airflow, but after a while i discovered i did a better job of tuning by sound and feel. it was part of the pain in the butt charm of these cars along with the smell of musty leather and canvas from the top...i can almost smell it now....thanks for the trip down memory lane
     
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  21. anirut

    anirut Legend

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    Ed,

    My answers are YES and YES!

    I used to drive a twin-carb 1600 cc VW. The fast back one. What a machine! Oh, and stepping down the accelerator was like pouring gas down the drain, but it gives you that kind of pinned-to-the-seat feel.
     
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  22. hoosierbr

    hoosierbr Hall of Fame

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    90" racquets are generally best suited for serve-and-volley and all-court play. Old school tennis, more traditional grips, flattish hitting and such. Of course a good enough player can use any racquet for anything. As many players don't play this kind of tennis any more or at least very often the desire for these frames is limited to older players and some younger ones, like myself, who choose to kick it old school.

    However, the Wilson NCode 6.1 90 (Federer) seems to sell well, in large part I think because that's the racquet Fed is advertised to play. (Whether he actually does is a matter of debate.) It's a good racquet for sure and I've spent a lot of time with it but, alas, decided it was too demanding for me. It's demanding for anybody - it's heavy as hell, stiff and has the smallest sweetspot I've ever come across. If Fed does indeed use it or something similar that only proves how remarkably talented he is in using it with such success. I'm not Roger, I'm Randy. I can roll with the headband and look like a badass but if I pulled that stick out in a match I'd look like a fool.

    The best 90" frame ever made, IMO, was the Fischer Vac Pro 90. A hefty 12 oz but a super low swingweight and very flexy. A work of art. That's a midsize I can dig!

    BTW, Ed (Nobadmojo), interesting to see you're using IsoSpeed in the crosses with Klip. IsoSpeed is a nice feeling string but I didn't find it very durable. How's your luck been?
     
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  23. Rafa's best friend

    Rafa's best friend Banned

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    Nobody wants 90 sq inch anymore due to attainable control with bigger head so even the pros want little bigger head to return those 140mph serves...
     
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  24. Duzza

    Duzza Legend

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    Hmm I'm using a 90 inch and play most of my games from the baseline...
     
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  25. anirut

    anirut Legend

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    Not trying to teach you, but you should try ripping the balls really hard in a running approach, placing them at the corners and take control of the net. Then you'll have all the fun of the 90".

    Ever tried a backhand topspin approach? It's fun.
     
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  26. Duzza

    Duzza Legend

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    I used to approach a lot of the time. Just not making effective shots to finish the point, getting passed, say once or twice then backing down for the rest of the set. I have a 2H BH so topspin is never that big.
     
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  27. anirut

    anirut Legend

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    Yeah, 2HBH would make it hard to play TS BH approach.

    BTW, do you play topspin most of the time? Or more flat? Do you "brush" the ball for your topspin? Or ripping it to get the spin? Just curious.

    For me I rip the ball to generate that flatish spin.
     
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  28. Duzza

    Duzza Legend

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    For Forehand topspin? Or backhand topspin? My Backhand topspin only in long rallies and when I'm pushed back, forehand- for maximum topspin, which is not all the time, I try really hard to emphasise low-high and yeah rip it, not brush it.
     
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  29. anirut

    anirut Legend

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    Well ... using a 90", try to keep your rallies shot. They are like sniper rifles, you know, powerful and accurate. But it's heavy and takes times to reload, not like the sub-machine guns that you can keep firing away.
     
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  30. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    I think a better car analogy would be manual transmissions versus automatic transmissions. Some people just like the control, versatility, and work involved in driving a manual transmission car. It's just a much more satisfying experience and you get out of it what you put into it - i.e., you know it's you doing it and not the car doing it for you.

    It's the same thing with midsize racquets - i.e., more control, maneuverability, versatility, and much more satisfying to play with. You feel more like it's you hitting the ball and not the racquet hitting the ball for you.

    And the last time I checked, many people still prefer manual transmission cars, and many are still sold, especially outside of the U.S.
     
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  31. anirut

    anirut Legend

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    ^^

    Well, I've never though that I'd like automatic transmission. However, having driven automatic-trasmission cars for the past five years, my perception of automatic transmission has changed.

    Why?

    Because once you learn to use something well, you know how to "work around" its limitations.

    I drive my car as though it's a manual. I don't use the "kick-down" much but I'd just shift the stick down and take the engine revving up till around 5,000 RPM before I shift the stick up. This allows me to overtake 130 kph cars ahead of me pretty easily.

    It's all about knowing how to work around the limitations of what you've got.
     
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  32. AndrewD

    AndrewD Legend

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    Duzza,

    Speaking for myself, I find that more choice isn't always the best thing. So, if you want 90sq you've only got options x, y and z. Pick one and play with it. Keeps things nice and simple.

    On that note, have you sold the POG mids yet?
     
    #32
  33. bad_call

    bad_call Legend

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    pretty good analogy here. btw - i still drive a stick. :mrgreen:
     
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  34. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    I'm only 10-12 hours into this setup, am not a big string breaker getting 20-25 hours out of Klip Legend and dont break cross strings before mains (for anyone who wishes to pick away at this, there have been a couple anomilies where i broke the x's first). So far so good...actually this setup is great for me. I'm hooked on this setup. If interested in it, i created a thread about this setup over in the strings forum.
     
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  35. southpaw

    southpaw Rookie

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    Duzza,
    We are in the golden age of mids. The ps85, pc600, pog93 are still available, amazing when you consider that those racquet are decades old. Throw in the updated versions of those racquets plus the solid offerings from Yonex, PK and Volkl, and you have a decent selection flexes, sw's and feels to choose from.

    Just wait a few years when some of the big marketing guns like Fed, Safin and Hewitt begin to retire. The selection we have now will seem like a Vegas all-you can-eat buffet.
     
    #35
  36. skuludo

    skuludo Professional

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    I was the one who bought the last couple of the Yonex MP-Tour 1 mids from Tennis Warehouse. I don't know if I still like these frames. Wouldn't mind trading a few for a n6.1 tour 90 since I have no luck obtaining a demo of this frame. I have 5 total all used. 4 of them are in good shape.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2006
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  37. Duzza

    Duzza Legend

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    Nope, not yet. Shame because I am not using them.
     
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  38. bertrevert

    bertrevert Hall of Fame

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    Heh heh heh, they aren't that bad, from memory just a bit hard to face in the morning-after light... :)

    Not sure you can call this a golden age as there were surely more earlier, as in, eighties-earlier, and they seemed to rule the roost.

    We had this recent thread about using a MID which had some interesting viewpoints:
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=105252

    To pronounce them dead is premature but "The Inch That Changed Tennis Forever" has happened:
    http://www.racquetsportsindustry.com/issues/200601/200601science_inch.html

    Aint no going back. It seems to me to be pretty hard to go under 95 in these circumstances and given the opposition. And yes I've seen lots of peeps failing with "The Federer". Now that is a real hard racquet to make click. I find the 001 MID a lot easier than that one for sure.
     
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  39. BigServer1

    BigServer1 Legend

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    Vantage makes a 90" racquet too...
     
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  40. BigServer1

    BigServer1 Legend

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    Nice analogy!
     
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  41. AndrewD

    AndrewD Legend

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    Duzza,
    I'm hitting with the TT Warrior MP on the weekend so, depending on how that goes, I might have to drop you a line. Of course, my POG mid might be tough to match as the swingweight is so low.

    Have you tried the Diablo Mid? I've only had a couple of hits with one but it does offer a very different response to the POG mid. Feels a bit heftier (that would be the swingweight) but still quite mobile, excellent spin (not as much as the POG mid but still exceptionally spin-friendly and is kinder to strings and balls), more power (although I find the POG mid to have very good power) and a bigger sweetspot. In my opinion, it's a far superior racquet to the nCode 90, RDS 001, RDX 500 and the newer Head Prestige mids (of course, not everyone likes the Prince grip shape or head shape so it is just a matter of taste).

    I'd love to get my hands on another one to have an extended test but, frustratingly, like most things it isn't available up here.
     
    #41
  42. WhiteSox05CA

    WhiteSox05CA Hall of Fame

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    Especially considering 90 sq. in. used to be MID, now it's at the lowest end of the racket head spectrum.
    ________
    COLORADO MARIJUANA DISPENSARY
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2011
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  43. SFrazeur

    SFrazeur Legend

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    I cannot recall what the names were for the original categories. Perhaps someones could tell us.

    I know the racquets smaller than Mid(85-93) were called standard(65-84?).
     
    #43
  44. AndrewD

    AndrewD Legend

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    I think it depends on where you're from but I do know that in the UK they used to distinguish between racquets based on what percentage larger than standard they were. So, very roughly (as my memory isn't what it used to be), the Dunlop Max 200G would have 25% oversize (over the size of the standard frame - I think they used 65sq as standard), the PS85 would have been 30% oversize , and the POG OS would have been 70% oversize.

    The only other term I can recall is 'super-midsize' which some out here used to refer to racquets that were around the 95sq mark (bigger than mid but not really oversize).
     
    #44
  45. sypl

    sypl Rookie

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    You were doing alright up to here, until...

    ... that. Guys, it ain't cheating to be using a bigger headsize. Not until the ITF bans it anyway. But then they'd have to take away the rackets of Nadal and Roddick, and I don't see that happening. Basically, if it offers similar qualities and you can handle a slightly larger size then, all things being equal, it's simply better. It's why we don't use standard size rackets anymore. Roll with the times, maaaaaaaaan.
     
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  46. Duzza

    Duzza Legend

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    I know I know, but I....just...don't want to...simple :p
     
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  47. SFrazeur

    SFrazeur Legend

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    You are forgetting what some might consider one of the most important aspects of a racquet; that being feel. Mid racquet have a playing feel unlike larger racquets. Some consider feel to be major component to control. Sampras would not Piant job a racquet for fear it would denigrate the feel of his St V. PS 85s.
     
    #47
  48. sypl

    sypl Rookie

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    This is true, but then I'd argue that feel is more something formed from habit than from the equipment. It's why pros don't change rackets much, because they're just so used to what they're using - it's almost like a glove rather than a racquet.

    But if you grow up with something like, say, an oversize racquet and you play well with it, I doubt you'd say the racquet lacks feel. If you grabbed a random pro and stuck a wooden racquet in his hand I don't think he'd be blown away by the 'feel'. He's find it hard to adjust simply because it's not the feel he's used to. All pros have great feel - the feel for their own racquet!
     
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  49. southpaw

    southpaw Rookie

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    Probably so, but many of those frames were dogs that didn't hunt. I just browsed the tennis warehouse 1998 index from archive.org. Figured I would find tons of under 95" heads, but the selection is arguably better right now than it was 8 years ago. Wilson had 1 racquet then, 2 now. Head 1 then, 2 now. Lost the Fisher 90, but added a pk. Yonex 0, but they have 2 now.

    What's apparent is that, regardless of headsize, the average weight of racquets is down. In 1998 TW offered less than a dozen racquets under 10oz, while the current racquet finder database shows more than 50. Of course TW's catalog doesn't reflect the state of the entire industry, but still makes for an interesting comparison.
     
    #49
  50. thejerk

    thejerk Semi-Pro

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    I wish Prince would start making tri-comp 90's again. I love the head classic 600 the best but the tri comp is easier to use. Feel is the best thing about mids. My theory is that the shorter the strings the better the feel. It seems that way to me.
     
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