There no doubt Nole is the best ever in Australia now

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by 90's Clay, Jan 27, 2013.

  1. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    2011, no way. Djokovic was way too good at that event, and spanked Federer in the semis. The result wouldnt have been different on any slower hard court, in fact had it been a very fast hard court that day Djokovic likely would have even won given the form of both players.

    2009 is doubtful at best as well. Federer hasnt beaten Nadal in a best of 5 match since 2007 now, and even that one (on grass) he won barely.

    I also fail to see the logic rebound ace greatly benefits Federer compared to plexicushion or plexicushion greatly favors Djokovic. Rebound ace was most certainly not a fast surface either, and it was higher bouncing than plexicushion.
     
    #51
  2. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

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    Not sure I agree; while I think Djokovic would've won that on Rebound Ace.. both men peaking on fast hardcourts= edge Federer. He's just too good on faster surfaces for Djokovic, though it would've been a spectacular match, no doubt.
     
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  3. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    Djokovic didn't spank Federer at the AO in 11 any worse than Federer spanked Djokovic at the US open in 07. Both were tightly contested straight set matches for the most part. Let's leave the hyperbole out.

    A 6-2 final set isn't barely winning, Federer beat Nadal in a tough fought match but the end wasn't really close. Federer lost the mental battle with Nadal at the AO 09 but for the most part Federer played very well off the ground versus Nadal there. Perhaps if the conditions were a bit faster the match may not have gone to five and Federer wouldn't have collapsed.

    That being said I don't think Federer would have won 3 straight titles on rebound ace from 09 to 2011. I feel 09 he might have got it but 11 it was Djokovic's time probably would have been a 5 setter IMO though.
     
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  4. MTF07

    MTF07 Semi-Pro

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    We should differentiate between the two surfaces. Agassi and Fed were the best on rebound ace. Djokovic has owned Plexicushion.

    And yes, while Djokovic may have the more dominant run (of course and insane level Safin that would have beaten any version of Djokovic prevented Federer from 4 peating in Australia), Federer has been in 5 finals and 10 straight semis. His consistency cannot be overlooked. Novak will likely end up with more titles, but right now to say he's easily the best.... well that's just BS.
     
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  5. The_Order

    The_Order Legend

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    Federer has only ever won ONE AO title by getting through a top 4 opponent. Oh and relax guys, it wasn't Novak or Rafa that he beat, it was only JC Ferrero.

    I find it funny that people **** on Andre for his weak 2001 and 2003 draws but never mention Fed's easy runs, esp 2006.
     
    #55
  6. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    Federer beat Murray in 2010 who was ranked 4th at the time. Don't get me going on the "seeded lower so ranked lower!" thing again. He was ranked 4th at the time.

    I guess had he played Soderling who was seeded 4th (but ranked 5th) it would be a tougher match, anyway, LOL.
     
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  7. RF20Lennon

    RF20Lennon Legend

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    No he wouldve won 2011. Rebound Ace is slow and low. It allowed fed to take side steps and hit a huge forehand on and off whenever he wanted. Plus that surface took slices wonderfully so it was right into fed's repertoire. Djokovic would really have to bend down to pick up those slices and it would be a sitter for fed. Nadal's topspin would not have kicked up as high allowed fed to be more offensive
     
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  8. The_Order

    The_Order Legend

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    Ah yes, lets not forget Mystic Safin. He played the highest possible level of tennis in the history of the sport because that is the only possible way Roger could lose.

    No version of any player could ever had a chance against Safin in that semi and this is evidenced by the fact that he beat peak Roger.

    Back to reality, 2011 Novak would've beat him in 4 sets.
     
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  9. TheFifthSet

    TheFifthSet Hall of Fame

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    It's a tad deceptive though because the draws are much tougher than the ranking of the players would indicate. 2004 was a very daunting draw. Prime Ferrero, prime Hewitt (albeit recovering from a bit of a low), Nalbandian, and then Safin, who made 3 finals down under, winning one. And he mowed through them all.

    2006 was pretty soft I'll grant you, but 2007 featured a resurgent Roddick who got shellacked by Fed, and an on-fire Gonzo who destroyed Nadal and disemboweled Haas, and then played quite well in the final.

    In 2010 he beat Davydenko, who was playing the best tennis of his life by far, and was seen as a legitimate contender, Tsonga who is a perennial top 8 player, and Murray, who was ranked 5 but lets be honest, he was a top 4 player at the time and would surpass Soderling in the rankings shortly thereafter.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2013
    #59
  10. The_Order

    The_Order Legend

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    How is this possible? The reason plexicushion is slower is because of the high bounce, allowing players more time to retrieve balls.

    If a ball is bouncing low, players have less time to get them back, s I can't understand how slow and low is possible by way of physics. Unless you think rebound ace absorbed the energy of the balls as they bounced, but for that to be true it would need to be a very sticky surface.
     
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  11. RF20Lennon

    RF20Lennon Legend

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    LOL he did beat novak in the 2007 Aussie. But he played some tricky opponents. Please like novak could get through Safin the way fed did.
     
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  12. TheFifthSet

    TheFifthSet Hall of Fame

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    I don't mean to nitpick but I just don't get this. How did he prevent him from 4-peating? He was gunning for his second straight title. Plus he still had to win in the final, if he won that match. And even though he won in 2006 and 2007, if he had won in 2005 it would have changed the structure of things, like a butterfly effect if you will. His mentality going into the 2006 Australian Open would have been different if he won the year before than if he lost. Maybe he would have been more complacent, with less of a chip on his shoulder. Or maybe he would have played even better. But you can never know.

    Also, I disagree with your premise that 2005 Safin would simply mop the floor with Djokovic, but I don't want to open that can of worms. :)
     
    #62
  13. The_Order

    The_Order Legend

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    Hewitt was coming off his worst season in years. Slipped from #1 to #17 IIRC.

    Ferrero was never really that good, on clay yes you could make a case for him but he was coming off getting belted by Guccionne in Sydney.

    And let's be fair to Safin here, he played that tournament, it was his first major since when? The previous AO? He was absent for 03 RG, WIM, USO and even the YEC. Then he had tough 5 set battles all the way through against Martin, a 4 setter with Blake (that featured 2 TBs), a 5 setter against then #1 Roddick and then ANOTHER 5 setter against Agassi. To even think that Safin was anywhere near up to beating a guy like Roger in the final is crazy talk. He was stuffed.

    Fed's 06 was quite soft. 2007 he destroyed Roddick in the semi no doubt played unbelievable, but on-fire Gonzo wasn't as on fire as his previous matches, most likely due to being nervous in his first major final.

    So, Soderling's efforts to get to top 4 are disregarded here. That isn't very fair, he produced better results therefore deserved his seeding above Murray. Had Murray been seeded 4 the draw would've been different and who knows what could've happened.

    As for Davydenko, yeah he was playing probably his best level, but still I don't think his best level is enough against a Roger, Rafa or Novak in a major. Nadal has a bad HC h2h against him, but let's be honest, majors are a completely different story, just look at Roger and Murray's h2h.

    Tsonga was also stuffed after back to back 5 setters against Almagro and Novak.
     
    #63
  14. The_Order

    The_Order Legend

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    Ah you crazy? Novak wasn't anywhere near top 4 in 2007 AO. LOL.
     
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  15. doobiedoodoo

    doobiedoodoo Rookie

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    Nah, weak field. Federer is old. HC is hardly Nadal's best surface. Murray is not in the same category.
     
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  16. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Here are all their Australian Open match results:

    Andre Agassi
    1995 Australian Open
    R128: Andre Agassi def. Grant Stafford (6-2, 6-4, 6-2)
    R64: Andre Agassi def. Jerome Golmard (6-2, 6-3, 6-1)
    R32: Andre Agassi def. Greg Rusedski (6-2, 6-4, 6-2)
    R16: Andre Agassi def. Patrick Rafter (6-3, 6-4, 6-0)
    QF: Andre Agassi def. Yevgeny Kafelnikov (6-2, 7-5, 6-0)
    SF: Andre Agassi def. Aaron Krickstein (6-4, 6-4, 3-0 ret.)
    FR: Andre Agassi def. Pete Sampras (4-6, 6-1, 7-6, 6-4)


    1996 Australian Open
    R128: Andre Agassi def. Gaston Etlis (3-6, 7-6, 4-6, 7-6, 6-3)
    R64: Andre Agassi def. Vincent Spadea (6-4, 6-2, 6-3)
    R32: Andre Agassi def. Steve Bryan (4-6, 6-0, 6-2, 6-1)
    R16: Andre Agassi def. Jonas Bjorkman (4-6, 6-2, 4-6, 6-1, 6-2)
    QF: Andre Agassi def. Jim Courier (6-7, 2-6, 6-3, 6-4, 6-2)
    SF: Michael Chang def. Andre Agassi (6-1, 6-4, 7-6)

    1998 Australian Open
    R128: Andre Agassi def. Marzio Martelli (3-6, 7-6, 6-2, 6-2)
    R64: Andre Agassi def. Albert Costa (6-4, 6-4, 2-6, 7-5)
    R32: Andre Agassi def. Andrea Gaudenzi (6-2, 6-2, 6-0)
    R16: Alberto Berasategui def. Andre Agassi (3-6, 3-6, 6-2, 6-3, 6-3)

    1999 Australian Open
    R128: Andre Agassi def. Hernan Gumy (6-0, 6-3, 6-0)
    R64: Andre Agassi def. Slava Dosedel (7-6, 6-2, 6-0)
    R32: Andre Agassi def. Jiri Novak (6-3, 6-2, 6-1)
    R16: Vincent Spadea def. Andre Agassi (6-1, 7-5, 6-7, 6-3)

    2000 Australian Open
    R128: Andre Agassi def. Mariano Puerta (6-2, 6-2, 6-3)
    R64: Andre Agassi def. Sjeng Schalken (7-5, 6-0, 6-3)
    R32: Andre Agassi def. Mariano Zabaleta (6-4, 6-4, 6-2)
    R16: Andre Agassi def. Mark Philippoussis (6-4, 7-6, 5-7, 6-3)
    QF: Andre Agassi def. Hicham Arazi (6-4, 6-4, 6-2)
    SF: Andre Agassi def. Pete Sampras (6-4, 3-6, 6-7, 7-6, 6-1)
    FR: Andre Agassi def. Yevgeny Kafelnikov (3-6, 6-3, 6-2, 6-4)


    2001 Australian Open
    R128: Andre Agassi def. Jiri Vanek (6-0, 7-5, 6-3)
    R64: Andre Agassi def. Paul Goldstein (6-1, 6-3, 6-1)
    R32: Andre Agassi def. David Prinosil (7-6, 5-0 ret.)
    R16: Andre Agassi def. Andrew Ilie (6-7, 6-3, 6-0, 6-3)
    QF: Andre Agassi def. Todd Martin (7-5, 6-3, 6-4)
    SF: Andre Agassi def. Patrick Rafter (7-5, 2-6, 6-7, 6-2, 6-3)
    FR: Andre Agassi def. Arnaud Clement (6-4, 6-2, 6-2)


    2003 Australian Open
    R128: Andre Agassi def. Brian Vahaly (7-5, 6-3, 6-3)
    R64: Andre Agassi def. Hyung-Taik Lee (6-1, 6-0, 6-0)
    R32: Andre Agassi def. Nicolas Escude (6-2, 3-6, 6-3, 6-4)
    R16: Andre Agassi def. Guillermo Coria (6-1, 3-1 ret.)
    QF: Andre Agassi def. Sebastien Grosjean (6-3, 6-2, 6-2)
    SF: Andre Agassi def. Wayne Ferreira (6-2, 6-2, 6-3)
    FR: Andre Agassi def. Rainer Schuettler (6-2, 6-2, 6-1)


    2004 Australian Open
    R128: Andre Agassi def. Todd Larkham (6-1, 6-3, 6-4)
    R64: Andre Agassi def. Tomas Berdych (6-0, 6-2, 6-4)
    R32: Andre Agassi def. Thomas Enqvist (6-0, 6-3, 6-3)
    R16: Andre Agassi def. Paradorn Srichaphan (7-6, 6-3, 6-4)
    QF: Andre Agassi def. Sebastien Grosjean (6-2, 2-0 ret.)
    SF: Marat Safin def. Andre Agassi (7-6, 7-6, 5-7, 1-6, 6-3)

    2005 Australian Open
    R128: Andre Agassi def. Dieter Kindlmann (6-4, 6-3, 6-0)
    R64: Andre Agassi def. Rainer Schuettler (6-3, 6-1, 6-0)
    R32: Andre Agassi def. Taylor Dent (7-5, 7-6, 6-1)
    R16: Andre Agassi def. Joachim Johansson (6-7, 7-6, 7-6, 6-4)
    QF: Roger Federer def. Andre Agassi (6-3, 6-4, 6-4)



    Roger Federer
    2000 Australian Open
    R128: Roger Federer def. Michael Chang (6-4, 6-4, 7-6)
    R64: Roger Federer def. Jan Kroslak (7-6, 6-2, 6-3)
    R32: Arnaud Clement def. Roger Federer (6-1, 6-4, 6-3)

    2001 Australian Open
    R128: Roger Federer def. Arnaud Di Pasquale (6-4, 4-6, 6-1, 7-5)
    R64: Roger Federer def. Nicolas Escude (6-1, 6-4, 6-4)
    R32: Arnaud Clement def. Roger Federer (7-6, 6-4, 6-4)

    2002 Australian Open
    R128: Roger Federer def. Michael Chang (6-4, 6-4, 6-3)
    R64: Roger Federer def. Attila Savolt (6-2, 7-5, 6-4)
    R32: Roger Federer def. Rainer Schuettler (7-6, 7-6, 6-4)
    R16: Tommy Haas def. Roger Federer (7-6, 4-6, 3-6, 6-4, 8-6)

    2003 Australian Open
    R128: Roger Federer def. Flavio Saretta (7-6, 7-5, 6-3)
    R64: Roger Federer def. Lars Burgsmuller (6-3, 6-0, 6-3)
    R32: Roger Federer def. Andreas Vinciguerra (6-3, 6-4, 6-2)
    R16: David Nalbandian def. Roger Federer (6-4, 3-6, 6-1, 1-6, 6-3)

    2004 Australian Open
    R128: Roger Federer def. Alex Bogomolov Jr. (6-3, 6-4, 6-0)
    R64: Roger Federer def. Jeff Morrison (6-2, 6-3, 6-4)
    R32: Roger Federer def. Todd Reid (6-3, 6-0, 6-1)
    R16: Roger Federer def. Lleyton Hewitt (4-6, 6-3, 6-0, 6-4)
    QF: Roger Federer def. David Nalbandian (7-5, 6-4, 5-7, 6-3)
    SF: Roger Federer def. Juan Carlos Ferrero (6-4, 6-1, 6-4)
    FR: Roger Federer def. Marat Safin (7-6, 6-4, 6-2)


    2005 Australian Open
    R128: Roger Federer def. Fabrice Santoro (6-1, 6-1, 6-2)
    R64: Roger Federer def. Takao Suzuki (6-3, 6-4, 6-4)
    R32: Roger Federer def. Jarkko Nieminen (6-3, 5-2 ret.)
    R16: Roger Federer def. Marcos Baghdatis (6-2, 6-2, 7-6)
    QF: Roger Federer def. Andre Agassi (6-3, 6-4, 6-4)
    SF: Marat Safin def. Roger Federer (5-7, 6-4, 5-7, 7-6, 9-7)

    2006 Australian Open
    R128: Roger Federer def. Denis Istomin (6-2, 6-3, 6-2)
    R64: Roger Federer def. Florian Mayer (6-1, 6-4, 6-0)
    R32: Roger Federer def. Max Mirnyi (6-3, 6-4, 6-3)
    R16: Roger Federer def. Tommy Haas (6-4, 6-0, 3-6, 4-6, 6-2)
    QF: Roger Federer def. Nikolay Davydenko (6-4, 3-6, 7-6, 7-6)
    SF: Roger Federer def. Nicolas Kiefer (6-3, 5-7, 6-0, 6-2)
    FR: Roger Federer def. Marcos Baghdatis (5-7, 7-5, 6-0, 6-2)


    2007 Australian Open
    R128: Roger Federer def. Bjorn Phau (7-5, 6-0, 6-4)
    R64: Roger Federer def. Jonas Bjorkman (6-2, 6-3, 6-2)
    R32: Roger Federer def. Mikhail Youzhny (6-3, 6-3, 7-6)
    R16: Roger Federer def. Novak Djokovic (6-2, 7-5, 6-3)
    QF: Roger Federer def. Tommy Robredo (6-3, 7-6, 7-5)
    SF: Roger Federer def. Andy Roddick (6-4, 6-0, 6-2)
    FR: Roger Federer def. Fernando Gonzalez (7-6, 6-4, 6-4)


    2008 Australian Open
    R128: Roger Federer def. Diego Hartfield (6-0, 6-3, 6-0)
    R64: Roger Federer def. Fabrice Santoro (6-1, 6-2, 6-0)
    R32: Roger Federer def. Janko Tipsarevic (6-7, 7-6, 5-7, 6-1, 10-8 )
    R16: Roger Federer def. Tomas Berdych (6-4, 7-6, 6-3)
    QF: Roger Federer def. James Blake (7-5, 7-6, 6-4)
    SF: Novak Djokovic def. Roger Federer (7-5, 6-3, 7-6)

    2009 Australian Open
    R128: Roger Federer def. Andreas Seppi (6-1, 7-6, 7-5)
    R64: Roger Federer def. Evgeny Korolev (6-2, 6-3, 6-1)
    R32: Roger Federer def. Marat Safin (6-3, 6-2, 7-6)
    R16: Roger Federer def. Tomas Berdych (4-6, 6-7, 6-4, 6-4, 6-2)
    QF: Roger Federer def. Juan Martin del Potro (6-3, 6-0, 6-0)
    SF: Roger Federer def. Andy Roddick (6-2, 7-5, 7-5)
    FR: Rafael Nadal def. Roger Federer (7-5, 3-6, 7-6, 3-6, 6-2)

    2010 Australian Open
    R128: Roger Federer def. Igor Andreev (4-6, 6-2, 7-6, 6-0)
    R64: Roger Federer def. Victor Hanescu (6-2, 6-3, 6-2)
    R32: Roger Federer def. Albert Montanes (6-3, 6-4, 6-4)
    R16: Roger Federer def. Lleyton Hewitt (6-2, 6-3, 6-4)
    QF: Roger Federer def. Nikolay Davydenko (2-6, 6-3, 6-0, 7-5)
    SF: Roger Federer def. Jo-Wilfried Tsonga (6-2, 6-3, 6-2)
    FR: Roger Federer def. Andy Murray (6-3, 6-4, 7-6)


    2011 Australian Open
    R128: Roger Federer def. Lukas Lacko (6-1, 6-1, 6-3)
    R64: Roger Federer def. Gilles Simon (6-2, 6-3, 4-6, 4-6, 6-3)
    R32: Roger Federer def. Xavier Malisse (6-3, 6-3, 6-1)
    R16: Roger Federer def. Tommy Robredo (6-3, 3-6, 6-3, 6-2)
    QF: Roger Federer def. Stanislas Wawrinka (6-1, 6-3, 6-3)
    SF: Novak Djokovic def. Roger Federer (7-6, 7-5, 6-4)

    2012 Australian Open
    R128: Roger Federer def. Alexander Kudryavtsev (7-5, 6-2, 6-2)
    R64: Roger Federer def. Andreas Beck (Walkover)
    R32: Roger Federer def. Ivo Karlovic (7-6, 7-5, 6-3)
    R16: Roger Federer def. Bernard Tomic (6-4, 6-2, 6-2)
    QF: Roger Federer def. Juan Martin del Potro (6-4, 6-3, 6-2)
    SF: Rafael Nadal def. Roger Federer (6-7, 6-2, 7-6, 6-4)

    2013 Australian Open
    R128: Roger Federer def. Benoit Paire (6-2, 6-4, 6-1)
    R64: Roger Federer def. Nikolay Davydenko (6-3, 6-4, 6-4)
    R32: Roger Federer def. Bernard Tomic (6-4, 7-6, 6-1)
    R16: Roger Federer def. Milos Raonic (6-4, 7-6, 6-2)
    QF: Roger Federer def. Jo-Wilfried Tsonga (7-6, 4-6, 7-6, 3-6, 6-3)
    SF: Andy Murray def. Roger Federer (6-4, 6-7, 6-3, 6-7, 6-2)
     
    #66
  17. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Novak Djokovic
    2005 Australian Open
    R128: Marat Safin def. Novak Djokovic (6-0, 6-2, 6-1)

    2006 Australian Open
    R128: Paul Goldstein def. Novak Djokovic (6-2, 1-6, 6-3, 6-2)

    2007 Australian Open
    R128: Novak Djokovic def. Nicolas Massu (6-1, 6-1, 6-0)
    R64: Novak Djokovic def. Feliciano Lopez (6-2, 7-5, 6-1)
    R32: Novak Djokovic def. Danai Udomchoke (6-3, 6-4, 5-7, 6-1)
    R16: Roger Federer def. Novak Djokovic (6-2, 7-5, 6-3)

    2008 Australian Open
    R128: Novak Djokovic def. Benjamin Becker (6-0, 6-2, 7-6)
    R64: Novak Djokovic def. Simone Bolelli (6-1, 6-2, 6-2)
    R32: Novak Djokovic def. Sam Querrey (6-3, 6-1, 6-3)
    R16: Novak Djokovic def. Lleyton Hewitt (7-5, 6-3, 6-3)
    QF: Novak Djokovic def. David Ferrer (6-0, 6-3, 7-5)
    SF: Novak Djokovic def. Roger Federer (7-5, 6-3, 7-6)
    FR: Novak Djokovic def. Jo-Wilfried Tsonga (4-6, 6-4, 6-3, 7-6)


    2009 Australian Open
    R128: Novak Djokovic def. Andrea Stoppini (6-2, 6-3, 7-5)
    R64: Novak Djokovic def. Jeremy Chardy (7-5, 6-1, 6-3)
    R32: Novak Djokovic def. Amer Delic (6-2, 4-6, 6-3, 7-6)
    R16: Novak Djokovic def. Marcos Baghdatis (6-1, 7-6, 6-7, 6-2)
    QF: Andy Roddick def. Novak Djokovic (6-7, 6-4, 6-2, 2-1 ret.)

    2010 Australian Open
    R128: Novak Djokovic def. Daniel Gimeno-Traver (7-5, 6-3, 6-2)
    R64: Novak Djokovic def. Marco Chiudinelli (3-6, 6-1, 6-1, 6-3)
    R32: Novak Djokovic def. Denis Istomin (6-1, 6-1, 6-2)
    R16: Novak Djokovic def. Lukasz Kubot (6-1, 6-2, 7-5)
    QF: Jo-Wilfried Tsonga def. Novak Djokovic (7-6, 6-7, 1-6, 6-3, 6-1)

    2011 Australian Open
    R128: Novak Djokovic def. Marcel Granollers (6-1, 6-3, 6-1)
    R64: Novak Djokovic def. Ivan Dodig (7-5, 6-7, 6-0, 6-2)
    R32: Novak Djokovic def. Viktor Troicki (6-2 ret.)
    R16: Novak Djokovic def. Nicolas Almagro (6-3, 6-4, 6-0)
    QF: Novak Djokovic def. Tomas Berdych (6-1, 7-6, 6-1)
    SF: Novak Djokovic def. Roger Federer (7-6, 7-5, 6-4)
    FR: Novak Djokovic def. Andy Murray (6-4, 6-2, 6-3)


    2012 Australian Open
    R128: Novak Djokovic def. Paolo Lorenzi (6-2, 6-0, 6-0)
    R64: Novak Djokovic def. Santiago Giraldo (6-3, 6-2, 6-1)
    R32: Novak Djokovic def. Nicolas Mahut (6-0, 6-1, 6-1)
    R16: Novak Djokovic def. Lleyton Hewitt (6-1, 6-3, 4-6, 6-3)
    QF: Novak Djokovic def. David Ferrer (6-4, 7-6, 6-1)
    SF: Novak Djokovic def. Andy Murray (6-3, 3-6, 6-7, 6-1, 7-5)
    FR: Novak Djokovic def. Rafael Nadal (5-7, 6-4, 6-2, 6-7, 7-5)


    2013 Australian Open
    R128: Novak Djokovic def. Paul-Henri Mathieu (6-2, 6-4, 7-5)
    R64: Novak Djokovic def. Ryan Harrison (6-1, 6-2, 6-3)
    R32: Novak Djokovic def. Radek Stepanek (6-4, 6-3, 7-5)
    R16: Novak Djokovic def. Stanislas Wawrinka (1-6, 7-5, 6-4, 6-7, 12-10)
    QF: Novak Djokovic def. Tomas Berdych (6-1, 4-6, 6-1, 6-4)
    SF: Novak Djokovic def. David Ferrer (6-2, 6-2, 6-1)
    FR: Novak Djokovic def. Andy Murray (6-7, 7-6, 6-3, 6-2)
     
    #67
  18. TheFifthSet

    TheFifthSet Hall of Fame

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    True, but he finished the year in the top 5 and was healthy during the event. A healthy, motivated, young Hewitt is danger for anybody in the R16 of a slam, and especially in Australia.

    Well he was coming off a US Open final and a win in Madrid on an indoor hardcourt, so if we go a little further, I'd say his form wasn't too shabby.

    You make some salient points, I will admit, and I agree that it was a tough ask for Safin. I remember thinking before that final thinking he needed to close it out in 3/4 if he wanted to have a chance. I gave him a punchers chance.

    Regardless though, I'd say a draw consisting of Hewitt, Ferrero and Nalby (the latter being a bad matchup for Fed) all in fairly good form isn't anything to scoff at. I would include Safin in there due to the redlining element, but I do concede that Fed was an overwhelming favourite.


    To each their own I guess. I thought Gonzo played some pretty awesome tennis but was subdued by a peak Fed. My memory could be foggy, but I remember Gonzo holding a 5-4 40-15 lead on serve in the first set, and on the first set point he had a look on a pass and scorched a forehand at Fed that Fed just cooly handled with a stab volley. Then after that Rog clawed back and played near flawless tennis, with Gonzo staying the course.


    I'm not disregarding him, he was ranked no. 4 and thus deserved it at the time, but I'm just saying, to say Fed only beat one top 4 player is just a tad deceiving in my judgment, because while on paper Soderling was in the top 4 at the time, Murray was seen as the subjective number 4, and played like it in the tournament (dispatching Rafa and playing extremely solid tennis). So in the grand scheme of things, while Federer didnt technically beat a top 4 player that year, he DID beat a guy who was playing like one, and who would supplant him as numner 4 shortly after that. The point is, is it really worth noting? It's a technicality at best. I mean it was one seed separating them, and given Murrays Aussie Open pedigree, I'm sure pretty much any top player would rather face Sod than Andy.

    Fair enough. I personally think that while Davys peak level wouldn't grant him 'favourite' status over any of those guys at a slam, I do maintain that drawing him at that tournament, given the form he was in, is a dangerous proposition. To this day I've never seen someone make Fed look so helpless at a major the way Davy did in that first set and a half (6-2, 3-1 and a BP for a double break), other than Rafa at 2008 RG. He just had immense difficulty making inroads with Davy from the baseline until his form raised and Davys dropped. While I don't think peak Kolja would win very often against Fed at a slam, he would definitely offer a stiff challenge.

    Also, the way he was playing I could have seen Davy taking out Rafa if they played at the 2010 Aussie. Or maybe the 2006/2007 US Open.

    He wasn't in full flight but he was still a tough match on paper. This is a guy who's beaten Murray, Djokovic AND Rafa at this particular major, at some point. And he just took Fed to 5 a week ago. Tsonga is historically a giant killer at the Australian Open.

    All in all, Davy Tsonga and Murray is tough no matter how one puts it (just in my opinion, of course).
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2013
    #68
  19. The_Order

    The_Order Legend

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    To TheFifthSet,

    I'm not saying Fed's draws were **** easy (except 2006), but when I compare to who Novak had to beat to earn his titles:

    2008 - Fed #1 and Tsonga
    2011 - Fed #2 and Murray #5
    2012 - Murray #4 and Nadal #2
    2013 - Ferrer #4 and Murray #3

    Apart from Murray in 2011, Tsonga's the only one not seeded top 4 and in that final he kept his level up from the previous 08 matches.

    Then I look at Fed's:

    2004 - Hewitt #15, Nalby #8, Ferrero #3 and Safin
    2006 - Davydenko #5, Kiefer and Baghdatis
    2007 - Roddick #6 and Gonzalez #10
    2010 - Tsonga #10 and Murray #5

    I think it's pretty clear Novak has had the tougher run and still has 4 titles, which imo ranks him as the AO GOAT in the open era.
     
    #69
  20. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    A good question is who is the 2nd best Australian Open player of the Open Era- Agassi or Federer?
     
    #70
  21. President

    President Legend

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    Look at Agassi's draws to win his latter 2 AO's....
     
    #71
  22. THE FIGHTER

    THE FIGHTER Professional

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    the answer is federer, but he isnt second to djokovic, but Rafa instead. Nads gets gets the nudge for his two 3+ stellar, classic worthy matches in the later rounds in various AOs. i'd rate the proper order as nadal, federer, agassi, and djokovic. as the name suggests, djokovic is a joke.
     
    #72
  23. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    In 2001, Todd Martin, Patrick Rafter and Arnaud Clement (Clement had beaten Agassi at the 2000 US Open). In 2003, Rainer Schuettler had beaten both David Nalbandian and Andy Roddick.
     
    #73
  24. THE FIGHTER

    THE FIGHTER Professional

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    where's rafa? was he injured then?
     
    #74
  25. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Very true, but Federer's in 2006 and to a lesser degree 2007 was quite the joke as well. Agassi also while not winning 3 straight Australians Djokovic, did win 3 straight he played from 2000-2003 (and would have been the heavy favorite in the year he had to miss due to injury in 2002), something Federer has also not done. Agassi also wasted alot of opportunities by not playing the event until 1995, but that is his fault. It is unfortunate he did as he would probably be the Australian Open GOAT still today, and not Djokovic yet, if he had.
     
    #75
  26. THE FIGHTER

    THE FIGHTER Professional

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    i agree, djokovic and the like should be thanking their lucky stars that agassi back in the day didnt play the AO as much as he could. same can be said about rafa now since he isn't playing either. djokovic is reaping from draws that dont have neither agassi nor nads.
     
    #76
  27. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    In early 2001, Rafa was playing in the satellites in Spain. In 2003, Nadal was playing on the challenger circuit, his ranking still a bit too low for the main tour. This changed in April 2003.
     
    #77
  28. THE FIGHTER

    THE FIGHTER Professional

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    any date after April 2003, either tennis related or non-tennis related, should be changed to the year "X" A.R. with "X" being the amount of years after 2003 the event takes place. A.R. obviously stands for Anno Rafa, signifying the year of his arrival.

    it will greatly help distinguish what years and respective results count and which do not.
     
    #78
  29. Blocker

    Blocker Semi-Pro

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    Pete was not at his peak at the 95 AO...he had a whole lot of things going on in his head at the time.
     
    #79
  30. Blocker

    Blocker Semi-Pro

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    Winning 5 straight to me is better than winning 5 scattered over a 10-12 year period.

    Winning 5 straight means for 5 years in a row, you are the defending champion, so for 5 years in a row, you are the player everyone wants to knock off. So for me, Fed's 5 in a row at the USO is more impressive than Sampras' 5 because Sampras won one when he got under everyone's guard, flew under the radar so to speak, then he won his 5th as his swansong where he was a sentimental favourite with the crowd. Still an amazing feat to win 5 in that time, but to me it's not as impressive as facing up to the challengers every year for 5 years and keeping them at bay from your trophy.
     
    #80
  31. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    oh please, murray AO 2011 and ferrer AO 2013 were pushovers ...
    in 2011, murray wasn't playing that well, struggled crazily vs ferrer and won in big part due to ferrer playing horrible breakers .. ended up playing a sh*t final, much worse than the AO 2010 one .. (should've been bagelled in the 2nd set, but looked like novak took pity and gave him 2 games instead :lol: )

    ferrer in 2013 should've lost to almagro, who ended up mega-choking ...

    you could've added stan for AO 2013 instead ..

    2006 was haas, davydenko, baghdatis
    2010 was davydenko, tsonga and murray

    almost everyone in the list I mentioned for fed were clearly better than murray in AO 2011 and ferrer in AO 2013

    also tsonga's level dropped off a bit in the 2008 final just like gonzo's did in AO 2007 ...
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2013
    #81
  32. The_Order

    The_Order Legend

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    LOL as if 2006 Haas would've pushed Novak in any year he won the title. Same with Davydenko and Baghdatis. And let's not forget Kiefer was Fed's SF opponent in 2006 :lol:

    And yeah, I probably should've included Stan as well.

    Fact still remains Novak is AO GOAT and he has had it MUCH harder than Fed on route to winning his titles.

    He's also managed to win 3 in a row and is undefeated vs the big 4 since it went plexicushion.

    Oh and let's not forget Fed's AO record vs top 4 opponents, which now stands at 1W (Ferrero) - 6L (Nadal x2, Novak x2, Murray + Safin) :lol:
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2013
    #82
  33. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    well, davydenko, haas, baghdatis would've given some competition .... if stan could give him a massive scare, so could they ....

    Novak didn't have it much harder at all ...if you include ferrer 2013 or murray 2011, who put up cr*p performances, that's your delusional view .....

    and I'd take losing to a top 4 player - fed,nadal, murray over losing to roddick or tsonga ....

    yeah, so what if kiefer was fed's SF opponent ? he atleast put in a more respectable performance than ferrer did in the AO 2013 SF or murray did in AO 2011 final

    fed in his best years there : 2004,05,07, 10 would easily beat the 08/11 versions of himself that novak faced ... even in 2006, he was clearly better ...

    I can see why someone could put Novak over fed @ the AO , but don't get delusional that novak had it that much harder ...

    fed hasn't lost before the semis since 2004 ... djoker has lost twice in the QF stage
     
    #83
  34. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    its 3-6 and majority of the losses were after his peak ... your boy rafa won't even be fit enough to be playing tennis at a high level at that age :lol:

    I suppose fed should've lost to tsonga this year rather than beat him to get to the semi ... that would have made him a better player since he wouldn't be 'spoiling' his record vs the top4 players at the AO further :roll:

    he should've lost to tipsarevic in AO 2008, simon in AO 2011 as well, right :roll:
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2013
    #84
  35. Magnus

    Magnus Legend

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    Djokovic never won on Rebound Ace
    Agassi only won on Rebound Ace

    Federer has won on both surfaces.
    Fed wins.
     
    #85
  36. The_Order

    The_Order Legend

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    Is there a Crystal ball bargain sale? I may just bookmark this and bring it up in 4 years time when Rafa does play at a high level at age 31.

    Oh and who are these imaginary other 2 top 4 wins against. I hope you're not counting Muzza 2010 and Arod 07. They were seeded 5 and 6 respectively.
     
    #86
  37. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    oh, please do .......

    they were #4 ranked players in the world at that time.
     
    #87
  38. The_Order

    The_Order Legend

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    Stan played a LOT better than they did.

    LOL Ferrer's performance is not too disimilar to Roddick in 07. Fed and Novak were in the zone in those matches.

    Take what you want, you are nitpicking Novak's 2 worst AOs since he reached top 4. So he had a bad couple of AO tournaments, oh well he beat Fed's arse twice without losing a set. Fed could only beat baby Novak at AO.

    Those guys that Fed lost to have never beat Novak at AO.

    Wow he won a set. He was a joke semi finalist, ranked 21 for a reason and that reason is he has no weapons whatsoever to trouble the top 4 players in majors.

    Fed hasn't beaten Nadal or Novak since plexi. 2006 Fed would not beat 2008 or 2011 Novak so it doesn't really matter anyway.

    Truth >> Novak beaten MUCH tougher opponents on route to winning his titles. Just like nadal has had to beat tougher opponents to win his majors.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2013
    #88
  39. The_Order

    The_Order Legend

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    No prob.

    They were not seeded 4. That means they weren't ranked 4 for the tournament, when are you going to understand that?

    His record against top 4 is 1W 6L :lol:
     
    #89
  40. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    quite a bit better than haas/baghdatis, but davydenko's performance wasn't far off ...


    eh,no , not even close ... ferrer wasn't anywhere close to good form, having struggled vs almagro and almagro should have put him away in straights ;

    roddick OTOH was , he had even taken fed to the brink at the YEC 2 months or so ago ...

    fed hit 45 winners to 12 UEs vs roddick, roddick was 11 winners to 18 UEs
    djok hit 30 winners to 16 UEs vs ferrer, ferrer was 11 winners to 32 UEs

    no denying that djok was in the zone, but ferrer was wayyyyy worse than roddick

    well, then AO 2011 and AO 2008 were fed's worst AOs ; you are also 'nitpicking' by pointing out his losses to a peaking Novak there ...

    fed would have beaten novak at 2009/2010 AO had they faced off and you know it ...


    whatever, but the performance he put was atleast better than what ferrer or murray put up on those occasions; anyways it doesn't matter that much as fed faced better players in the previous rounds- davydenko, haas & then later in the final - baghdatis


    2006 fed may not have beaten 2008/2011 novak but 2004/2005,2007,2010 fed definitely could ....

    truth is the difficulty level was around the same, only fed has been a bit more consistent ....
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2013
    #90
  41. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    ranking is what matters when you talk about 'calibre' ...

    the seedings are drawn a bit before the AO, so players can still get points in tournaments before that ... that's what happened ...

    again, I'll repeat :

    I suppose fed should've lost to tsonga this year rather than beat him to get to the semi ... that would have made him a better player since he wouldn't be 'spoiling' his record vs the top4 players at the AO further :roll:

    he should've lost to tipsarevic in AO 2008, simon in AO 2011 as well, right :roll:

    that would've made him better in your opinion ? :lol:
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2013
    #91
  42. Federer20042006

    Federer20042006 Banned

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    Just like the result at 2008 Wimbledon. Oh, wait.

    Yeah, yeah...it was on grass. Which player do you think was more bothered by the fact that it was on grass, though?

    I say it was simply a bad matchup for Djokovic if Safin's head was in it.

    And does 2011 Djokovic really differ that much from 2012 and (so far) 2013 Djokovic? I see the same player. The biggest difference in results was because of the simple fact that 2011 Djokovic was able to sneak out with wins he never should have (Murray at Rome, Federer at US Open).
     
    #92
  43. kalyan4fedever

    kalyan4fedever Hall of Fame

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    federer is the true one , but the slow courts made him vulnerable and the pushers like djoker are considered unbeatable
     
    #93
  44. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

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    Why would Djokovic be the best player at the AO now? He is tied with Federer and Agassi with four titles. If Djokovic wins another title then we can consider him the best there.
     
    #94
  45. Phoenix1983

    Phoenix1983 Hall of Fame

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    I agree, Djokovic is the AO GOAT for sure. 4 wins including 3 in succession.
     
    #95
  46. The_Order

    The_Order Legend

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    And the seeds determine the draw, so try again.

    You suppose wrong. What should've happened is Fed should've won more matches against the top 4 at AO instead of losing them.
     
    #96
  47. The_Order

    The_Order Legend

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    But the rest of 06 AO was **** easy. Novak had to beat Berdych and Murray as well.

    Fed had a tough qtr against Davy but then had total pushovers in the semi and final. Haas 4th round wasn't because Haas was playing well he was getting killed until Fed lost concentration and Haas got back into the match, but once it got down to fifth set Fed thumped him again.


    This is an incredibly weak argument on your behalf yet again. Novak and Federer play completely different brand of tennis. Novak is the greatest defender ever along with Nadal. When a player like that is in the zone there is no way Ferrer would do anything to win rallies. Ferrer's shots just kept coming back like a brick wall and this caused him to make more errors.

    Fed v Roddick is a completely different match up with much shorter points. Federer plays attacking style and therefore he won more rally's by hitting winners.

    I thought you would at least have known that instead of googling a stat sheet...

    Oh and Ferrer is a known pusher so t have equal W with Roddick just goes to show how aweful Roddick played when his W stats are equal to a guy like Ferrer and Ferrer was playing the better defender. Factor in that 4 of Roddick's winners were aces and that leaves him with 7 winners in ground play :oops:

    Didn't you say Federer played better in 2011 AO than 2013? Didn't you create a massive post about it from another googled stat sheet? Now all of a sudden 2011 was worse than 2013? You keep changing stations to suit yourself and it only makes you look weaker and weaker in terms of your tennis knowledge which was very small to begin with.

    As for Fed beating Novak in 09, it wouldn't matter because he lost anyway. If Fed reached Novak in 2012 and 2013 he would've lost to him and you know it.

    Face it Novak is without a doubt the AO GOAT. He is undefeated against top 4 since he himself became a top 4 player. Now you can argue all you want that his record against top 4 wouldn't be as good if he didn't lose in qtrs in 09 and 10 all you want, the fact is he is:

    6W 0L vs top 4 opponents and adding an extra 2 losses to that doesn't really prove he can't beat top 4 opponents at AO. Fed otoh has had 7 opportunities and only won 1 of them. When he was in his peak in 2005 he had a great chance to prove himself there, but he blew it, trying a tweener on match point. The truth is, as soon as a top 4 player plays to their ranking against Fed at AO, they beat him.




    What difference does it make? Fed smashed Kiefer in the remaining sets and in the end both got through VERY comfortably and were under no threat of losing whatsoever.

    As for Fed facing better players in other rounds, you really shouldn't be mentioning Haas. In that form no way would he pull 2 sets against Novak in the form he was in when he won the AO titles. Fed was pretty poor by his standards in 2006 and the **** weak draw saved him from another defeat down under.

    If Novak had that draw he would only potentially lose 1 set to Davydenko.


    Absolutely not in any way, shape or form except for ******* logic which you specialise in.

    For one, Novak had to beat Nadal to win 2012 AO, any version of Fed at AO would've lost to Nadal in 2012 AO form, especially on plexicushion.

    And he beat Federer to win 2 of his other AO titles.

    Fed hasn't beaten any top 4 except JC Ferrero.

    Anyone with any brain cells would agree that Novak had it much tougher and despite that still has won it 4 times and won 3 in a row. He is AO GOAT. Not Federer.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2013
    #97
  48. Russeljones

    Russeljones G.O.A.T.

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    There's no doubt AO is the backwater of the Grand Slams and the surface is contributing to the most boring matches in world tennis.
     
    #98
  49. stringertom

    stringertom G.O.A.T.

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    I agree, RJ, but at least we got two classics this year despite the sloooowness...Stan/Djok and Rogi/Willy saved the fortnight...wish they had been on the second weekend!

    Go back to grass or find some faster alternative. The monotony is killing the game.
     
    #99
  50. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    How quickly people have forgotten. Federer is the only player to win the AO without dropping a set since the establishment of the ATP.

    And about the rubbish competition argument, one can argue Nole wouldn't have beaten Safin in 2005, and he would be sitting on 3 AO. If 2005 Federer had Murray instead of Safin, he would have 5 AO by now.
     

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