Think Fed will break the most wins in a row record?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by NoBadMojo, Mar 4, 2007.

  1. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    Fed is sitting on 41 consecutive match wins and the record is 46 by Vilas.......think it will happen?
    Also, while they say that Vilas had 46 in a row, wasnt there some controversy about this about his streak being longer somehow?
     
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  2. edberg505

    edberg505 Legend

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    Ahhh, yes the infamous spaghetti racquet used by Nastase against Vilas in the 70's. Vilas got ticked off and didn't even finish playing the match.
     
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  3. The Gorilla

    The Gorilla Banned

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    .. and then went on to win another 40 odd matches in a row.
     
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  4. malakas

    malakas Banned

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    I say yes.It's gonna be tough since he has to win IW,but it's still very probable.

    Hey Can we have a poll about this?
     
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  5. The Gorilla

    The Gorilla Banned

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    he will definitely break it, with ease.
     
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  6. lorenza

    lorenza Semi-Pro

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    he'll be able to for sure. and yeah, there should be a poll about this :)
     
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  7. martin

    martin Banned

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    Only Vilas had that streak by winning small clay tournaments and Federer is just winning everything on every surface.
     
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  8. chaognosis

    chaognosis Semi-Pro

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    No, b/c the real record is much higher than that.

    Don Budge won 92 straight games in 1937/38.

    Not sure what Bill Tilden's longest streak was, but he went completely undefeated in 1924 ... and didn't lose a single important match for six years.
     
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  9. scineram

    scineram Professional

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    Well, then Fed will win everything this year, I guess.
     
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  10. 9000tennis

    9000tennis Rookie

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    Is Nadal's record for most consecutive wins on clay? And how many matches did he win?
     
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  11. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    there ya go....i rem this now. i think he appealed, but at the time, there was nothing already on the books making the spaghetti racquet illegal for tourney play....shortly after this, they ammended the rule book to exclude spaghetti type stringing. excluding the spaghetti incident wasnt he up there around 58 or so?
     
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  12. dima

    dima Banned

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    And here comes the book again with his 20s crap, nobody cares about grand grandpas honey.
     
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  13. noeledmonds

    noeledmonds Professional

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    I belive the actual Male openera record is 49 consecutive mathches by Borg. However Vilas's record was more impressive as his streak was broken by the spaggetti racket (which later became illegal). Vilas had a streak of about 36 matches after his encouter with Nastase.
     
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  14. chaognosis

    chaognosis Semi-Pro

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    People with brains do.
     
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  15. whistleway

    whistleway Semi-Pro

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    Wow.. That is real sick. I wish we could know about it.
     
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  16. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    no..the open era record is 46 by Vilas as i stated. Borg was also in the 40's but less than Vilas
     
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  17. AlpineCadet

    AlpineCadet Hall of Fame

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    #17
  18. lorenza

    lorenza Semi-Pro

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    yeah, that helped, as i had no idea what the heck the spaghetti racquet was :p
     
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  19. Andres

    Andres G.O.A.T.

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    The Open era record is actually Borg with 49. He was correct :)
    But there are some differences. Vilas won 46 matches (50, if we're really meticulous) in 83 days. Federer is taking 188 days to be in his 41 matches streak ;)

    Not taking any credit off Federer, of course, but credit where it's due, too :)
     
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  20. FedFan_2007

    FedFan_2007 Banned

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    That in 83 days against weak fields. I'm more impressed that Fed is doing it against stacked fields every time out. Going up against the best everytime brings a big risk of losing a match. Fed's streak is very impressive considering it includes 2 slams, 1 MS shield and a Masters Cup. Talk about a super-quality streak.
     
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  21. Andres

    Andres G.O.A.T.

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    McEnroe, Connors, Borg, Gerulaitis and Gottfried are weak fields? (We can count Borg out, since he didn't play him in that stretch)

    Vilas won 2 matches against Eddie Dibbs, twice over José Higueras, twice over Brian Gottfried, one over JMac and one over Jimmy Connors.

    Who did Fed beat this time? 3 times over Roddick, three times against Gonzo, twice Nalbandian and Blake and once against Nadal...

    Anyway, credit where it's due. Federer can probably outlast 50+ victories, until the clay season, and why not? Winning 5 or 6 matches in the clay MS as well ;)

    I can picture him getting up to 60 victories, and why not? Even more.
     
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  22. AJK1

    AJK1 Hall of Fame

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    Comparisons between tennis eras are so lame........
     
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  23. federerfanatic

    federerfanatic Banned

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    I do agree the 83 field was very strong, but I definitely wouldnt use Gottfried as a good example of the strong field. I wouldnt use Davydenko or Nalbandian as good examples of the strong field today but even they were better then Gottfried IMO. Opponents like Roddick or Nadal are way way tougher then Gottfried. Dibbs and Higueras are not better except on clay, but I suspect those wins over them in that stretch were on clay anyway.
     
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  24. DueSouth

    DueSouth Semi-Pro

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    Probably...because he is most likely going to win Indian Wells, and how many matches is that...6?(i dunno i havnt watched it before)
     
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  25. federerfanatic

    federerfanatic Banned

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    I think Pacific Life is another 6 matches so that would give him 47. If he lost in the final he would tie it with 46. So it all depends on the Pacific Life.
     
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  26. noeledmonds

    noeledmonds Professional

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    You know Andres Guazzelli there are conflicting opnions on the internet on who holds the longest streak. You may remember that a while ago I thought it was Vilas, but you purswaded me it was Borg. I then verified this by checking on Wikipedia. However double checking again Vilas defenitly comes out with the longest streak (46 matches), then Lendl with 44 and then Borg with 43. I wonder this ambiguity is down to offical tournaments being counted, or perhaps Davis Cup matches. I am most uncertain.
     
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  27. federerfanatic

    federerfanatic Banned

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    It is strange to have Vilas who is not a real all time great hold a record like that. It makes me want Roger to break it that much more.
     
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  28. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    as above.....
     
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  29. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    Yeah, this is getting weird. Last year there were articles on the atp website saying that Borg had the official record-49 matches. Now this year the atp has decided Vilas has it. back in 1977 all the news reports said that Vilas had a 50 match win streak(snapped by Nastase w/the spaghetti racquet) In the years since the atp decided that 4 of Vilas' matches shouldn't have counted.
    I'd like to hear their explanation for suddenly demoting Borg.
    noeledmonds, I just counted Borg's streak in 1978 it was 49(for some reason the atp website is missing davis cup results in player activity prior to 1980) Borg won 6 davis cup matches(which are included in player activity on the itf website)

    All the news reports are saying Vilas has the record with 46, even Federer talked about wanting to pass Vilas in Indian Wells.

    Andres Guazzelli or hops or someone should contact the atp they are making themselves look quite incompetant, Borg has the record! They even said so last year when talking about Federer's previous win streak(which by the way included davis cup matches, so why are they suddenly not counting them for Borg???)

    What a silly organziation the atp is, mlb doesn't miscount babe ruth's homeruns in the 1920s, yet these clowns can't count matches from 1978 accurately.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2007
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  30. federerfanatic

    federerfanatic Banned

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    Well Federer will win Pacific Life and Nasdaq to pass 50 anyway. I would be shocked and very dissapointed if he lost either event. His serve and forehand were so overpowering at Dubai, his backhand was better then ever, he is driving his returns some now, volleying with confidence, and moving superbly. There is no reason for him to lose either event so he should be over 50 win streak before the dumb clay season starts where boring moonballer Nadal comes into play.
     
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  31. noeledmonds

    noeledmonds Professional

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    How perplexing. Removing Vilas's 4 mathches due to an "unoffical tournament" seems reasonable, if not a little confused. However not counting Davis Cup matches is defenitly not reasonable. This is not the first time that Borg's records have been blemished by lack of Davis Cup data. I recall that Borg's 5 set record used to be quoted as 23-4, not 26-4 due to the exclusion of 5 set Davis Cup matches. As the Davis Cup matches are not ATP matches and do not have any ATP ranking points attached do you think this is why the matches are not counted? I suspect that the ATP might be doing an ATP match winning streak, but surely an Openera winning streak should include other professional matches such as the Davis Cup. Then I guess why not include the "unoffical tournament" matches too. Either way a feel an explanation is required.
     
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  32. federerfanatic

    federerfanatic Banned

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    It is dissapointing the ATP would not have official records and official criteria that there be no doubt what the record match win streak is. Tennis maybe is not a sport that values historical achievements as much though since I remember Sampras saying he felt deflated there was almost no recognition giving to his history making achievements from 98-2000. Perhaps Federer will experience the same thing in the next almost 3 years where I think you will see alot of records come his way, but perhaps with little fanfare.
     
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  33. scineram

    scineram Professional

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    For your interest, from online database, 05/03/2007

    Borg 1979-80

    ITF - 41 (1979: Tokyo 5, WCT Challenge Cup 5; 1980: Masters 5, Pepsi Grand Slam 2, WCT Invitational 6, Nice 5, Monaco 5, Las Vegas 5, World Team Cup 3 + Vilas )

    ATP - 32 (1979: Tokyo 5; 1980: Masters 5, Pepsi Grand Slam 2, DC 1RD vs GER 2, Nice 5, Monaco 5, Las Vegas 5, World Team Cup 3 + Vilas) - but wrong on DC date, it was after streak ended, so not counted

    Combined - 41

    Vilas 1977

    ITF - 46 (Kitzbuhel 5, Washington DC 6, Louisville 6, South Orange 5, Columbus 6, US Open 7, DC vs AUS 2, Paris 5, Aix-en-Provence 4 + Nastase (Spaghetti))

    ATP - 44 (Kitzbuhel 5, Washington DC 6, Louisville 6, South Orange 5, Columbus 6, US Open 7, Paris 5, Aix-en-Provence 4 + Nastase (Spaghetti))

    Combined - 46
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2007
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  34. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    Borg's 49 match win streak was from 1978. Like I said the atp cited Borg as the leader in this stat 2 years ago when Federer was on a 35 match win streak(ended by Nalbandian) It was even mentioned in the espn broadcast. I have no idea what changed since then.

    Borg's activity from 1978:

    http://www.atptennis.com/5/en/playe...y=Singles&selTournament=0&player=B058&x=9&y=9

    and the missing davis cup matches from '78:

    http://www.daviscup.com/teams/player.asp?player=10002258

    adds up to 49.

    He went from March '78 to to Sept '78 without losing a match(lost US Open final to Connors)

    On the list of Open Era winning streaks, Borg is both first (49 tour matches won in 1978) and fifth (40 in 1979–80). The only other men with winning streaks of 40+ matches are Guillermo Vilas (46), Ivan Lendl (44), and McEnroe (42).

    http://www.y2u.co.uk/Sub029_Famous/F_Bjorn_Borg.htm
     
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  35. lefty10spro

    lefty10spro Semi-Pro

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    you no lifers crack me up!!
     
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  36. scineram

    scineram Professional

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    I was looking for the other streak only, but right, ITF has all the 49 accurately again.
    ITF db wins hands down.:)

    Sidenote: W/O against Nastase & Gerulaitis not counted as loss, as usual.
     
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  37. scineram

    scineram Professional

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    WTF said history is boring? :)
     
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  38. caulcano

    caulcano Hall of Fame

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    Quality not quantity. I'm sure FED is capable of notching a longer streak if he played some more obscure tournaments like VILAS did.
     
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  39. caulcano

    caulcano Hall of Fame

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    Over 3 sets, anything is possible. A player could be 'hot' & FED 'cold' to make a 'shock' result.
     
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  40. vive le beau jeu !

    vive le beau jeu ! G.O.A.T.

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    de villiers probably called the Ministry of Truth for changing the archives... ;)



    PS: anyway, i hope roger will remove any ambiguity. :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2007
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  41. urban

    urban Hall of Fame

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    By all newspapers and tv reports back then, Vilas had 50 wins in a row, including 4 matches won at a Rye event. The surfaces given on the ATP webside are also false: Columbus and South Orange were played on har tru, which is like clay. So the clay streak, Nadal beat last year, was actually higher. Borg came near the 50 matches mark, but ended on 49. One thing: Vilas won all matches really in a row, within a few weeks, playing week after week. Borg and now even more Federer had large rest periods, very seldom playing two events back to back.
     
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  42. Rosebud

    Rosebud New User

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    Possibly ATP decided that those two w/o wins over borg in 1978 by Nastase & Gerulaitis did snap his streak afterall. But whatever ATP uses as criteria for winning streaks, they can't deny that in that span Borg won all 49 matches played.
     
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  43. scineram

    scineram Professional

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    Forget ATP, their db is ****. ITF is more extensive and accurate. Also easy to browse.
     
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  44. Rosebud

    Rosebud New User

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    Problem is, that apart from having an inadequate database, ATP publishes the same data through it's media releases, thus giving the world an incomplete picture of what they see as historic achievements in the sport. Perhaps they are simply understaffed. ITF database meanwhile seems to be improving lately, the former players activity sheets can be accessed again and as others on this board have also noted they're also making more tournament info available (results and draws for singles, doubles and qualies). If they keep it up that would be great.
     
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  45. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    Yeah that tournament called the 'US Open' was really obscure. Its hard to compare today to the 70s since tennis was so disorganized back then(there were competing tours, some grand slams didn't offer as much prize money or ranking points as WCT events, so how can you know what an "important" tournament is when comparing eras?)

    Regardless, Borg was considered the superior player to Vilas at any stage in their careers, so that Vilas win streak probably isn't the most significant record. So why should we care that Federer is passing an insignificant record? Thats the danger in dismissing records of the past, in a way you are putting down the person who is passing the record.

    But that doesn't make sense either. As scineram pointed out the atp is acknowledging Borg's 41 match win streak from '79-'80, which also included some walkovers. If that's the case they shouldn't count that streak either.

    I really hope this is cleared up by Indian Wells, since mainstream sports outlets are talking about this streak,the tennisworld will look quite silly for giving wrong info.
     
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  46. federerfanatic

    federerfanatic Banned

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    While I wouldnt dismiss Vilas's record due to playing obscure tournaments, it is a bit amazing he was able to have a record like that when Borg so totally dominated him their whole careers. Did they even play once during Vilas's streak?

    Also it is true Federer cuts down on his smaller tournaments compared to other players, I have noticed his schedule is much more limited then others, but perhaps that is a big part of his success. I wouldnt say if he would have more chance of a longer winning streak that way or not, since it seems to be a big part of his plan to schedule in a very careful and specific manner, and works very well for him.
     
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  47. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    That's why its hard to compare Federer to almost any other player in the open era. He is so consistently good on all surfaces & a threat to win every slam he has to think about his entire year in January, while most top players over the years can just pick & choose events to play throughout the year based on their current form.

    I think Vilas' streak would be comparable to if Muster went undefeated an entire claycourt season (which I think he almost did) winning small events like Mexico City as well as big ones like Rome, Roland Garros. Since he wasn't a threat on any other surface it made sense for him to play every possible event on clay no matter how small. Vilas was far better on clay than other surfaces so you can't fault him for playing so much on it.

    Or you could compare him to a hardcourt player winning every event in the summer & the US Open. Looking at Vilas' streak it consisted of 7 events won, 4 of them warmup events for the US Open(which was on clay at the time) & the US Open itself. So the streak didn't exactly consist of meaningless events, imagine if Agassi went undefeated during the summer in '95(which he almost did)That's kinda what Vilas did.

    As far as Borg in '77 he was injured & didn't play a match between Wimbledon & the US Open that year so Vilas was bit lucky that summer not to face him. Borg had to default in the round of 16 at the Open, he was seeded to face Vilas in the semis, which would have been an interesting match.

    Looking at Borg's record after that default, he went on a 29 match win streak, winning 5 events, most of which seemed a lot better fields than those Vilas won in his streak. Interesting that Vilas didn't play the same events that Borg played that fall, Vilas actually went on another win streak while Borg was on his.
     
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  48. Rosebud

    Rosebud New User

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    Which of Borg's opponants benefited from him withdrawing? I don't know that there were any.
     
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  49. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    http://www.itftennis.com/mens/players/activity.asp?player=10002258

    There is a walkover to Kriek in Basel '79 during this streak.
     
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  50. Tchocky

    Tchocky Hall of Fame

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    I can't see Roger losing until Monte Carlo. He should surpass the record. He'll probably end up with 55 to 60 consecutive wins.
     
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