This Forum...what's it all about

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by johnthecoach, Sep 27, 2004.

  1. johnthecoach

    johnthecoach New User

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    I have entered and read the posts you guys out there have put.
    We are all out here hopefully to help and assist others to become more aware of their problems in this great sport.
    But unfortunately all I see is " infighting" amongst some of the people on the site.
    I coach 52 weeks of the year..for the last 15 years..and every lesson I give is different depending on who I coach and what they want out of a lesson.
    can you imagine me coaching a guy of 60 years of age and giving him the forehand advice of Bungalow Bill..he would walk off the court after 10 mins.
    Every lesson is different, and you have to treat every client as a different entinty.
    Until you guys out there learn that everyone is an individual and in the course of one day I could have a 12 year old, followed by a 60 year old, followed by a Spanish ranked player, followed by a group of guys who just want to have fun, followed by a guy who has just survived a double by-pass....then you can TRULY call you yourself a coach.
    My aim in life is just to push the boat out, to get as many people playing this great game as possible.
    I dont know what you guys do, but it all seems sooooo serious....and non of you are coaching top 100 in the World, so what's it all about.
    I was always told PEA..purpose, enjoyment, activity..and sorry, but with some of you I can see very little enjoyment.
     
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  2. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Huh? Now this is funny!

    Well fortunately I haven't had anyone walk out on me. Actually, I have had quite the opposite response - they stayed! But, I have kicked players out of my sessions.

    It doesn't matter if you coach 1 day or 365 days a year, what matters is can you communicate your ideas well and do you really know the game.

    There is no waiting "until" you do something to be called a coach. That is a "snobs" tennis rule.

    If you can teach and know how to breakdown the game and explain it in simple terms for someone to get better - you are a coach.

    You do not need to wait to coach Sampras to be called a coach. You do not need to travel in jets with Roddick to finally be called a coach. A coach is someone who loves to teach tennis and does it in any form.

    I think everyones aim is to make tennis better. I know I contribute my time on this board to improve tennis as a game. If you're upset that I disagreed with your assessment - join the crowd! You're not alone going through shell shock. I stated my reasons against your posts (and my reasons and position stands) but instead of crying about it, explain yourself. But to run away with:

    I can imagine, he would have a ten times better forehand and it would be free!

    Quit crying in your Paella and roll up those sleeves. Let's get specific! Let's go after the forehand - can a 60 year old learn the forehand I commented on? Is it really that hard (I think he is referring to the recent Haas analysis)? I am not afraid to argue and if you're right, I will be man enough to admit it, but not without a fight! ;)

    I can teach several different forehands. I can teach forehands in three developmental stages. Let's hear what you got.
     
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  3. papa

    papa Hall of Fame

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    Well Johnthecoach I'm in the category you describe ("can you imagine me coaching a guy of 60 years of age and giving him the forehand advice of Bungalow Bill..he would walk off the court after 10 mins." ) and I follow his advice and I spend about 3 + hours on the court every day.

    I don't think everything has to be sugar coated so it doesn't offend somebody - most of these guys are big enough to take it -- you don't see them running away and in the long run its good for them.
    As a matter of fact, I'm rather impressed at how well they do take it because they WILL be better player for it - especially Kevhen. It all part of the growing/learning process which I'm sure you know.

    I'm not saying, in any way, that your not a good coach but I do see many (coaches) that just are too complimentary - when what they might need to do is kick a--. Most of my sports background is in different sports and I don't think you get good results by just telling EVERYONE how good they are all the time.

    Don't underestimate these guys, they are big boys and sometimes you have to talk to "big boys" in certain ways that might offend others. These guys shrug it off and learn.
     
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  4. Mark S. Hogan

    Mark S. Hogan Rookie

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    I like the information and think we can all exchange thoughts with some degree of civility. It's free. :)
     
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  5. Kobble

    Kobble Hall of Fame

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    Some people have different priorities in sports development. Personally, I would like to achieve the best tennis game I can with my alloted time on the court. No, I am not top 100, or top 2000 for that matter. But I do have sound knowledge of what makes up good strokes, and I try to apply as much of that knowledge to my game as possible. My tennis game is like a sculpture to me, it is something I am building to be proud of in the end. I can't speak for other peoples motivations, but that is what I am about.


    As far as arguments go, I think it can be positive. The scientific community is full of arguments. No proposal is accepted without scrutiny, and that leads to more sound theories over time. I don't think tennis should deprive itself of the same process, because it is in essence the application of the human body which can be linked directly to kinesiology. Yes, some people start arguments to waste time, but after the dust clears, only the most productive ideas will prevail. Overall, it works.
     
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  6. fishboy

    fishboy New User

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    BB's advice is perfect for this board

    Johnthecoach,

    I'm not a coach, but I agree that you need to treat different players differently.

    HOWEVER, I think that there is a definite profile to the posters here. Most are upper level 3.5 or solid 4.0 to 4.5 and there are some 5.0 and above. Most take the game at least semi-seriously and play USTA or some form of competition. There are high school and college players here. Most seem to have played the game for a number of years. Your client base sounds much wider.

    I don't think that there are many 12 year olds here or people coming of off bypass sugery. Also, if it's a group of people looking to just have fun, they can probably have more fun somewhere else (though I have a lot of fun here :) )

    Tennis is a demanding and challenging sport if you want to improve. I think BB's advice reflects this reality. Even if you don't have the tools to implement what he's saying, reading it will give you an excellent idea of what you need to do to improve. It can be tough to help someone with their tennis over the internet, but BB is the best I have seen at reading someones post and putting a solution into words (and he uses video clips too :lol: ).

    From my perspective, BB's advice fits this board perfectly.

    joelfish
     
    #6
  7. Mahboob Khan

    Mahboob Khan Hall of Fame

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    I am on this board for the last six years and have enjoyed every minute of it. I have learned from it and people have learned from me as well. Here is an example: "If you have a coin, and I have a coin. You give your coin to me, and I give my coin to you, you will end up with one coin and I will end up with one coin". "However, if you have one idea, and I have one idea. You give your idea to me, and I give my idea to you; you will end up with two ideas and I will end up with two ideas".

    In my coaching career I have coached top 200 in the world. And on daily basis I coach all sorts of students: old, adult, men, women, children, elite juniors, professional Davis Cup level players, and even those who have some sickness. But that's the life and livelihood of a tennis coach. We cannot complain because we are professionals. And then one has to deal with overzealous parents and jealous leg-pullers.

    This Forum is wonderful!
     
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  8. Tim Tennis

    Tim Tennis Professional

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    Different strokes for different folks.

    Bungalo Bill, he does get fired up when he feels there is some mis-information about the game. I personally don't think he should waste his time arguing with them. I think he should just let it go, hell, you are not going to change their mind anyhow. I feel like some of the guys on this forum are a little jealous ( and there are a lot of very sharp, knowledgeable people from all over the world. ) and would love to bring down the top dog.

    If you ever go back and read his posts, he is the master at explaining concepts, putting things in such a way that if you think about it just a little, it will all make sense.

    I think that BB should go back and categorize all his posts and publish a book. I would buy it. What should we call it?

    Posting Ugly or Winning Posting
    Think Before Posting or Post To Win
    How To Win Friends and Influence Dummies

    I better stop here before I get too carried away.

    You got to love the game.
     
    #8
  9. johnthecoach

    johnthecoach New User

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    Fundamentals
    Grip
    Grip pressure
    Ready position
    Using the core
    Forearm & hand rotation
    Arm deceleration
    Finish: 5-point checklist




    Backswing

    Unit turn
    Racquet path options
    Loop
    Dip loop
    Leading elbow
    Palm closing
    Essential adaptations
    Backswing height
    Backswing length
    Followthrough

    Racquet path variations
    Horizontal
    Elevated
    Inverted
    Vertical
    Variations with grip
    Eastern
    Hybrid
    Semi-western
    Western
    Variations with impact point
    High
    Medium
    Footwork
    Fundamental changes for MT
    Angular vs linear
    Dynamic recovery

    Common variations
    Open stance
    Forward stance
    Moving around the ball
    Hitting on the run

    Thats what I've got on the forehand..but there's more....is this a forehand from
    1 Net
    2 Midcourt
    3 Baseline (ahead)
    4 Baseline (behind)
    5 Deep backcourt

    Is it in which situation?
    Defend
    Counterattack
    Rally
    Challenge
    Attack

    And which type of stroke is it ?
    Angle
    Arc
    Bender
    Dip Drive
    Drive
    Lob

    We can and have to teach all this, and yes if you are lucky enough to have the client who wants to learn all this..then wonderful..
    But as one of you mentioned, my client base is huge, from 3 years of age to the oldest 82, and as Papa said he was one who benefited from all the advice, good for you pal, but I just dont have clients who spend 3 hours a day on the court.Most are playing 3 hours a week, and all they do is play and not practise.So someone like you would be a dream to work with.
    But we dont get that here, thats all I am saying.The advice from BB is not wrong, and I never said it was, it would not work for me in 7 out of 10 cases.
    But Tennis Tim, mis-information about the game, I dont think so.
    And maybe a good title for the book would be
    "Angry Isn't Always Right" :lol:
    "Humility shows the true self" 8)
    And I dont like paella...pescado en sal mejor :D
     
    #9
  10. Tim Tennis

    Tim Tennis Professional

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    Hello Johnthecoach,

    Please accept my apologies if you thought I was referring to you. No way. In fact I agree with you that you have to tailor the lesson to suit the abilities of the student and just what they really want out of the lesson.

    I think you have to admit that there is some pretty wild stuff on the site. I actually have a serve that I practice using the SW grip, toss to the left slightly, come across the ball, when I get lucky it produces a fairly flat ball that breaks like an inshut curve in baseball. I have a lot of fun with it but I would never tell people that is how you should serve.

    I think what drives BB crazy is when people try to set themselves up as experts just because they have read a few books on tennis and gone from a 3.0 to the 3.5 level in only 3 years time. :lol:

    You got to love the game.
     
    #10
  11. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    I agree with civility. I realize my wording can be rather direct and sometimes people aren't ready for it. I also realize that sometimes I can be so persuasive that I go to far. I am thankful that all my posts arent like that and the posts that are "untackful" remain a low percentage shot for me.

    On the other hand, I think we need to have arguments. We need to go back and forth and sometimes "hammer" it out. It is not always fun, but it is enlightening. It helps uncover myths and truths and at times we need to be politically incorrect. Now I know that is my feelings on things and that is how I view it.

    But if you challenge me on something or say something but dont back it up, I am not at all afraid to "bring it".
     
    #11
  12. papa

    papa Hall of Fame

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    I hope Johnthecoach gives this forum a try - I'll be looking forward to his opinions and views from across the pond.
     
    #12
  13. Mark S. Hogan

    Mark S. Hogan Rookie

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    BB, I prefer discussions to arguments, but that might just be me. I've been accused of being the Emily Post of message boards in a not so flattering way.

    I admit I want a kinder and gentler world. It may be Roosevelt’s fault. That “speak softly but carry a big stick” always struck me as a good life philosophy.

    As I have said, your work is appreciated here. You really don't have to smack anyone around to impress most of us. We be impressed anyhow. :)
     
    #13
  14. Kaptain Karl

    Kaptain Karl Hall Of Fame

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    Well, this is an “opinion forum.” Come on in. The water’s fine.

    - KK
     
    #14
  15. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Nice job {{{{BB, scratching his head :shock: }}}}, but I haven't found anything that is different or "new" that I and others haven't commented on or shared about, we just don't do it all at once. If you provide a fresh perspective then let's hear it. We have many good coaches out here on the boards: Mahboob Kann, John Yandell, Pat Dougherty. Are you above them?

    Are we still talking about the 60 year old with your information above? Have you read through all of my 3,000 posts that covers only God knows how many topics based on the posters questions? Am I doing anything wrong?

    Actually...wait a second, you implied I was wrong. You said "can you imagine if I used BB's technique for a 60 year old man, he would walk off the court."

    If I took a 60 year old man and informed him of the "Table of Contents" you extracted wouldn't he feel a bit overwhelmed? Is running around a backhand a mystery now and only you know how to teach it? Has making a C pattern around the ball changed for a runaround backhand? How about hitting a high forehand flat, recognizing the short ball, understanding grip positions and the appropriate swing path, understanding the different aspects of the court and when to know you're on defense or offense. Has that changed?

    I think I would be a little idiotic if I didn't ask him the more important questions like: What are your goals for your forehand? etc.

    What I am trying to say is, all this stuff you mentioned above is already known and taught in the USPTA by coaches and "gurus" with way more knowledge then you or I have.

    So what is new about the SW grip? Is that any different now? Is Spain teaching that the elbow is a key element of the modern forehand? Are we that far behind?

    The information you mentioned above is great stuff, but it already discussed on this board. It is alreayd known.

    I am glad you do know this stuff - now I hope to read about it! I still do not think you should provide grip instruction to a "whatever feels good" coaching method. I think the handle is designed for a reason. There are limitations to many things in tennis - this is one area that has limitations. If you didnt quite mean that, you should explain yourself better and inform the poster what you mean even if it takes some extra time to do it.
     
    #15
  16. johnthecoach

    johnthecoach New User

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    I promise not to go on any furthur with this reply...I feel its gone on too long and there are more valuable things to talk about.
    One of you said maybe I was in the wrong forum, maybe so..so which way is the forum for triple bypass players, as i am an expert in coaching those :lol:
    Now I am going to leave, but start a new subject....what the hell are you all talking about with this 3..5..level of play etc.
    we dont have this here, unfortunately a completely different system...so go to the new message as i cant see a section that will answer it.
    Sorry if this will be boring but can someone explain it please
     
    #16
  17. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Everyone wants a kinder and gentler world. But that doesn't mean it is going to happen. I think people dont understand the meaning of the word "argument" and take it to an extreme in their thoughts. Having arguments is actually healthy it actually leads to friendship and freedom.

    I have taken an argument further then it ever should have gone. But then again, the person arguing could have just agreed that I was right! If the other person was right - I would have stopped and accumulated the new wisdom and knowledge. But when someone is providing proof after proof and the other is simply "arguing" to argue. I find that foolish. Maybe even you have found yourself in an argument that went further then you thought. If you're married, I know you have!

    The definition of argument is:

    A discussion is different than an argument it usually ends with no resolution.

    The definition of a discussion is:

    This forum is setup for both arguments and discussions.
     
    #17
  18. Kaptain Karl

    Kaptain Karl Hall Of Fame

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    John - (If this works) here is the link which describes the ranking numbers we keep using in the US.

    <www.usta.com/leagues/custom.sps?iType=931&icustompageid=1655>

    (Bah! I cannot get a link to work right on this board. Use Copy/Paste in your browser.)

    - KK
     
    #18
  19. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    It is the rating system used in the United States to rate players for tournament play. 7.0 would be a professional player. 6.0 would be a very good college player.

    5.0 would be a very good recreational player to a college level player.
    And so on...

    Each level has certain player characteristics that help a player determine where they think they are so they can find someone to challenge that is better then them or the same. Also, they can use this to enter a tournament to play like players.

    I am sure you have something like that in Spain.
     
    #19
  20. kevhen

    kevhen Hall of Fame

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    I would say a very good recreational player is 3.5. To get to 5.0 it takes many years, and not just recreational hitting. Most recreational players are 2.5 or 3.0. Most club players are 3.5 or 4.0 with the club pros and college kids being in the 4.5-5.0 range. Top college players are 5.5-6.0 and satellite players are 6.5 with 7.0 being the ATP.
     
    #20
  21. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    I would say that is a very good general analysis and consistent with what I have found here on the West Coast.
     
    #21
  22. predrag

    predrag Professional

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    To clear up any confusion that has arisen recently over what the NTRP
    ratings mean exactly, here is the official guide to the ratings
    courtesy of Mr. Mike Hoye from the rec.sports.tennis.


    1.0 - You stink. You're grabbing the wrong end of the racquet and you
    think the green fuzz on the ball has something to do with velcro.

    1.5 - You still stink, but you can tie your own tennis shoes and hit a
    ball you've got in your hand towards one of the cardinal points
    without hitting yourself in the leg.

    2.0 - You've taken a few lessons, and the odour is fading. Your strokes
    begin to look less like a grandmother waving a flyswatter at a moth
    and more like you're actually trying to accomplish something.

    2.5 - This is when you start going to the club round robins, and
    discover that, despite your previous misconceptions, you still stink.
    You're doing alright if you're fed the ball, but everyone else is
    really just being nice to you until they can win the point without
    embarrasing you.

    3.0 - Same as 2.5, but with more topspin.

    3.5 - The light is dawning. Your feet begin to move more efficiently.
    They do not remain glued to the baseline, but begin to move
    around the court, even up to the net on those occasions that you
    feel like walking back to the fence to pick up the ball that passed
    you.

    4.0 - Your discovery of how to hit a serve and overhead allows you
    to be one of the people politely destroying 2.5 players on
    round robin night.

    4.5 - The ball goes where you will it to go, with authoritative pace
    and spin. You are king. You are undefeated on Round Robin night,
    and wish test your mettle with a greater challenge. You ask
    to play a match with your club's top players and after getting
    your ass whomped realize that, in fact, you stink. "But," the
    Div 1 team says magnanimously, "you're getting better."

    5.0 - Around now, pretty much everyone else at your club stinks.
    League play is the only way to get a decent match, and you're
    starting to think pretty well of yourself.

    5.5 - You crush some 5.0 punk in a league match, and tell him
    he stinks.

    6.0 - Tennis scholarship. You go to Stanford, play for the university
    team, and have some sixteen year old prodigy bagel you in
    a practice set and tell you that you stink.

    6.5 - You are offered a berth in a local ATP satellite, and lose out
    in the pre-draw round robin stage. One of the people in the
    audience played tennis with you back in round robin, and he
    tells you that you looked pretty good out there, but your
    backhand still stinks.

    7.0 - The pro level. If you're Brenda Schultz-McCarthy, your forehand
    stinks worse than Edberg's. You got to this level by yelling
    at referees or puking your guts out and beating quick-serving
    Spaniards.
    You've got a terrible serve, an irritating grunt, the best/worst
    face/legs/ass/boobs in professional sport and a wife who slaps
    officials when she disagrees with line calls. You've got no
    control, you're undisciplined and aren't willing to work hard
    and it would be great if you could just string together three
    weeks of consistent tennis. You don't know for sure how many
    miles there are to a kilometer, but you're tanking because you
    don't want to lose your number one ranking. You've been stabbed
    by a German weirdo, and took the number one ranking unfairly
    because of that. You got your ass kicked at the U.S. Open,
    and God was with you the whole time, but he wasn't helping you
    out much. You might be gay, but it's being vehemently debated,
    and probably nobody really cares anyway. You don't deserve
    the ranking you got, 'cause you only played on one surface, but
    that's OK since a drunk drove a Chevy into your kneecaps. Your
    girlfriend is suing you because you're rich and she's been given
    the boot, but your lesbian relationship with another touring pro
    is going just fine, thanks for asking. You stop claiming that
    image is everything when you realise that it's covering for the
    fact that you're a loser who can't win a tournament and decide to
    play like you mean it. Your tongue wags when you're playing.
    You're boring to watch. John McEnroe and Bud Collins are saying
    inane things about you on international television. You're
    exciting to watch. You're determined, but play a moon-balling,
    catch-and-fetch game that might win matches but is esthetically
    displeasing and you're a little on the plump side besides. And
    people on rec.sport.tennis are still debating whether or not
    you stink.
     
    #22
  23. johnthecoach

    johnthecoach New User

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    Hey predrag,
    Thats the system we have in Spain..its totally unbelievable and nobody understands it unless you are Moya,Ferrero,Nadal,Robredo,Costa, etc, and then it doesn't matter
     
    #23
  24. kevhen

    kevhen Hall of Fame

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    Yes, that pretty much sums of the sport of tennis. We all stink, no matter what level we are, and even more so after a humid match.
     
    #24
  25. Mark S. Hogan

    Mark S. Hogan Rookie

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    BB, I'm sure you know what I'm saying.

    Actually, I'm pretty good in an argument too and you'll probably see that. :twisted:

    Be well. :wink:
     
    #25
  26. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    LOL, I concur! I like the title "How to win Friends and **** off Dummies." There is never a dull moment around here.
     
    #26
  27. Kaptain Karl

    Kaptain Karl Hall Of Fame

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    I like Hoye’s Ratings Guide more than the “Official” one. That was great. I laughed more at each stage. Thanks, predrag.

    - KK
     
    #27
  28. Tim Tennis

    Tim Tennis Professional

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    Predrag,

    That was fantastic. I will have to print that out and give a copy to the local pro. He will love it.

    You got to love the game.
     
    #28
  29. predrag

    predrag Professional

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    It is an old one, posted probably around 1997 or so. 7.0 rating needs updating to
    reflect the current happenings in ATP and WTA.

    Regards, Predrag
     
    #29
  30. Mahboob Khan

    Mahboob Khan Hall of Fame

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    Great job, Bungalow Bill. Keep it up. Our job is to spread the true information about the game to our readers (in plain, simple language). Great indeed, and do not lose your heart. No reflection on this forum, I used to resist idiots, they used to cause me lots of pains, but now I have found a way to ignore them and to enjoy them. At times I feel, it is because of them that I am a tennis professional. A tennis professional should be like a spounge absorbing all good and bad remarks. You are remarkable Bill, and you are not alone.
     
    #30
  31. johnthecoach

    johnthecoach New User

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    Hey I started this discussion, and I think its been well used up.
    For all us " idiots " (thank you Mahboob Khan)
    out there working hard to help the other idiots who can't walk properly, cannot last more than 30 minutes on the court, but love every minute of it, for all those who cannot be told more than 2 different things about any stroke at the same time, otherwise they will fall over, those who don't want to listen to you, just go out there and play, those who's aspirations go no further than hitting with their wives once a week, those who only play two times a year because work doesn't allow, those who can't afford your fee, but you give them your time anyway...sob sob..that's 50% of my tennis life..and I love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    So endth this post..........please :lol:

    ps: rained today, first time in 5 months, so have some sympathy :p
     
    #31
  32. jun

    jun Semi-Pro

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    Feb 19, 2004
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    548
    johnthecoach,

    although you bring an interesting point. You have shown no sign of excellent coach. First of all, why would you say you are an idiot? M Khan wasn't referring at you. If you think you have good quailities, display them and prove them wrong. You can still be humber and display that you know your stuff.

    Second of all, don't you think even at age of 60, the person can still incorporate important fundamentals of good strokes? It doesn't matter if the person has by pass surgery, or whatever, they can still work on hitting low to high, fixed wrist etc etc.

    If I were a coach, and the student simply wanted to HIT the ball with me, I would tell him to find a hitting partnenr because I am there to work on his game, not to just feed balls. Maybe it will be different if my life line was dependent on it. But that's the attitude i have when taking lessons.

    B. Bill and M Khan provides good tips. and general drill that a person can use. No one has ever said "I am in such such condition". So everyone else is assuming s/he is in fine condition to do drills or whatever.

    From the intellectual side that they have shown, they will be able to apply their skills to special conditions...
     
    #32
  33. johnthecoach

    johnthecoach New User

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2004
    Messages:
    18
    To display signs of " excellent coach" is not possible over the web.
    The only way is to see that is watch that person working on a court...words on the internet can mean anything.
    How do you know that everthing you read here is not copy/pasted from somewhere else...do you all know each other???
    How do I know that you Jun are not some weirdo just on a site having fun, how do you know if I am really from Barcelona???
    How do you know that the all seeing Bill is what he says he is?
    So lets leave it at that...we will beg to differ..I have taught in school years before tennis, and the greatest thing I learnt is that the people we teach are all different and we the teachers are all different, and a good teacher can teach, but a better teacher knows how to teach people differently.
    Maybe the real prob we have here is the difference in cultures.I am London born, Uk and Spanish trained, you are all from the USA.
    You guys are different from us, thats a fact. I have coached the odd USA player and they are very different from coaching a Spanish guy.
    I have a pupil of mine who plays in your University tennis and he says playing in the states compared to the Uk is like" chalk to cheese"..sorry thats a very English phrase meaning " black to white"
    Thats not to say your right and we are wrong, but its the difference that makes us so unique.
    So anytime anyone of you finds themselves in Barcelona, come and look us up, ad maybe you will all learn something, for better or worse, up to you to decide.
    I spent 2 months working with Dr Allen Fox back in 1989, and it was a joy and I gained so much from him.And what I really learnt was his ability to get the best out of players by BEING DIFFERENT TO EACH OF THEM....Thats the secret to great teaching, sorry but some of you out there have alot to learn.
    Off Air...no more time for this....if your around sunny Spain..
    e-mail
    johnthecoach50@hotmail.com
     
    #33
  34. Tim Tennis

    Tim Tennis Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2004
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    Location:
    Charleston, TN
    Well said John, we love ya.
     
    #34
  35. Kaptain Karl

    Kaptain Karl Hall Of Fame

    Joined:
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    Yikes!!! Who have you been talking to???

    [KK hurries to finish (ever so slightly) changing the words as he re-types Tilden’s Match Play And The Spin Of The Ball. KK’s working title: Great Match Play: Philosophies By KK.]

    Whaddya think? Will it sell?

    - KK
     
    #35
  36. Mahboob Khan

    Mahboob Khan Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
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    Please re-read my post. I never meant any of you as an idiot.

    Yes, it is possible that people learn differently. But there has to be a standard method of coaching, however, when that standard fails then the coach should take use of another method e.g. spanish method, Swedish method, LTA/UK method, Australian method, ITF method, and/or PTR/USPTA method. A coach should keep on finding a methodology a particular student will understand. Yes, methodology could be different but that does not mean that you are teaching a different stroke. The stroke has to be biomechanically correct.

    If you cannot teach an old dog new tricks, at least you can polish the existing ones. I understand, that perhaps a 70 years old cannot hit topspin drive backhand (because he has used continental grip for his BH for 55+ years). Teaching a drive backhand to this old man will be a waste of time. However, if I feel that he is chopping down on his slice, I will teach him the correct slice, I will improve his slice. I will say, "you have excellent chop shot which is a good foundation for a slice. Let's start from high-to-low, and then take off a bit so that the racket head finish above the level of the net. Within minutes this old man will be hitting with good slice backhand.

    Mr. Johnthecoach, you are born in UK and trained in UK and Spain? Well, I was born in Nawapara, Vehari, Pakistan. Learned to play tennis in Pakistan and abroad, did my certification from the United States (PTR), Certification from ITF, Australian methodology, Nick Bollettieri coaching system, Dennis van der Meer Coaching System, attended courses on Spanish methodology, Swedish methodology, and just about every other methodology available. Plus my own 24 years+ experience with all sorts of players you mentioned. And, I was in Barcelona/Spain in 1995 attending ITF Worldwide Coaches Workshop; I was in Bangkok in 2001 attending ITF Worldwide Coaches Workshop, was in Dubai in 2002 attending ITF Asian Coaches Workshop, and I am going to New Delhi this month to attend the ITF Asian Coaches Workshop there from Oct 11-17, development high performance coaches are in attendance from all over the world. Were you there? Do you know Migael Crespo who works for ITF? Do you know Alberto Riba who works for the Spanish Federation? Go to them, they will tell you something about Mahboob Khan of Pakistan. About 20 years ago I thought that I was the best coach, about 25 years later, I have said on this forum that "you cannot fully and completely teach a stroke". How wrong I was some 20 years ago. You cannot beat the knowledge and experience.

    In order to support an argument, it is ok to refer to an authority, it is ok to even copy and paste it. Are we not supposed to read and learn? When I write on this forum, I do not write from a book because books are very complicated and my English is very simple.

    Sir, continents are coming together .. civilizations are on the path of collision so that they must know each other, and the knowledge has no boundaries. You seem to be new to this forum, and I like you. If you would like to know more about me, my tennis, my religion which is Islam, please email me: makhan67@hotmail.com. Welcome on board, John the Coach!
     
    #36
  37. jun

    jun Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
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    johnthecoach-
    I didn't mean any offense so hopefully none will be taken.

    Anyways,
    I agree that an excellent coach is able to adapt to indivisual needs better than anyone. I think it's possible over the web, certainly not as easy as in person.
    If there is anyone who's out here and trying to disguise who they are, I will give them benefit of doubt. I hope there are some credibility left in this world.

    I believe one can display his exceptional knowledge and coaching skill over the web. Good coach will always be able to express his opinion and fact in a very easy-to-understand and concise manner. S/he will be able to describe the techniques in the same manner.

    Of couse, the coach won't be able to fix or change drill to meet the indivisual need w/o seeing him/her playing. When a player looks for an answer to his/her problem, the coach can make suggestion and give advice on what kind of drills would help him / her to fix the problem, even over the web. And that's why many people do out here. And it's been proven that it has worked well ever since.

    And, I don't really buy your "you are different from us" thing. I am from south korea, I have learned tennis in Korea and U.S. And Look at the tour, are coach and player always from the same country? I don't think so.
     
    #37
  38. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Professional

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
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    This forum is titled "Tennis Tips/Instruction" and as far as that goes nobody provides it better than Bill, he is a genuine superstar. He might be a bit straightforward for some, but i have never had a prob with him. If he pointed out he thought i had made a misinformed comment then i would read what he said with interest and very likely be a better technician for it.
     
    #38
  39. Kaptain Karl

    Kaptain Karl Hall Of Fame

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    No. My Spanish is simple.
    I wish my Spanish was “as simple” as your English, MK. You’re doing just fine.

    - KK
     
    #39
  40. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
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    I think you can show how good you are as a coach anywhere. Once you got the knowledge, can show good organization and comunication skills and can prove the knowledge - you can coach.

    Nothing does a better job in testing your communication skills then writing. Writing forces you to organize your thoughts, it forces you to reread your information to see if it made sense. You can't be lazy with your writing otherwise thousands of people reading the post will go out and try the wrong thing or do it the wrong way because you didnt write clearly.

    I have coached at Vic Braden's tennis college and learned a ton from the man. I dont agree with everything he says, but the fundamental research is outstanding. I am a USPTA Certified pro, I have played college tennis, I am beginning to write articles for John Yandell and I post here regularly and enjoy it very much. The information I have provided over the years is worthless unless players truly benefited from it.

    With that said, I woudn't be able have any of the above mentioned credentials if I didnt also back it up with my play on the court and my ability to coach players.

    I honestly am looking forward to read your information so I can continue learning and growing. You are in a different part of the world and have seen and learned different things.

    If you want I will even go as far as saying "I am sorry for offending you." I will try to be more careful just so you can feel comfotable here and post your information to help all of us here.
     
    #40
  41. papa

    papa Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Messages:
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    johnthecoach wrote:

    "So endth this post..........please"

    You probably have now learned that you can elect to start a post but you cannot decide when to end it - kinda like having a child.

    Looking forward to reading your posts.
     
    #41
  42. Mahboob Khan

    Mahboob Khan Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
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    Thank you Kaptain Carl.

    Yes, you can start a discussion, but you can't end it until it ends itself.
     
    #42

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