This generations 3 best women and mens players per surface

[jamesblakefan#1]

I think you have to include Nadal for HC. He consistently makes it well into those tournaments while Roddick is more of a choker.

Nadal has the same amt of HC slams as Roddick, but less finals. I'd put Roddick over Nadal on HC, Roddick's done it for longer and w/ more consistency on the HC than Rafa, who's still yet to make a USO final.

 

[flying24]

Well if you put Clijsters over Sharapova based on tier I titles on HC, you have to put Nadal over Hewitt and Roddick based on HC masters titles. He has 5 total while Roddick only has 4 and Hewitt 2. I can see putting Roddick over Nadal on HC, but not Hewitt. Nadal's been a top 3 player on HC for the past 4 years, and his resume backs that up.

I don't see how you rate Clijsters over Sharapova on HC. I'm ok w/ Henin, but Sharapova has 2 HC slams in 3 finals compared to Clijsters' 1 slam in 3 finals. Slams win out over all other, to me.

Nope. Hewitt has won the ATP World Championships which is bigger than a Masters. He has won that twice plus two Masters which is bigger than 5 Masters. Roddick has only one less Masters, but many more slam finals and semis on hard courts than Nadal, more than enough to offset just 1 less Masters.

I said I put Clijsters over Sharapova based on her two WTA Championships titles (again 1 of those is bigger than 1 tier title easily) AND her many tier 1 titles on hard courts. Clijsters is way over Sharapova in that, not even close. Sharapova's one WTA Championship was a total joke since Serena in the final was so injured she was hitting 40 mph serves with a completely stiff stomach and no use of the legs, and could not move at all either, and Maria still had to come from 4-0 down in the 3rd set.

If slams win out over all else you wouldnt have put Sharapova over Henin on hard courts anyway in the first place, so you are already contradicting yourself. After all their Australian Open records are the same, and Henin at the U.S Open has done far better with two titles and a runner up. Sharapova has 1 more slam in the same # of finals, that can be offset by Clijsters far superior non slam success on hard courts. Sharapova ranks only #5 on hard courts of this generation behind Serena, Justine, Clijsters, and Venus.

Well then I think you're just overrating the importance of the YEC on both sides. I agree they are prestigious events, and the pts given show that. But it's different from a normal "tournament", which makes it hard for me to place too much importance on them when rating players. Injuries usually pile up at the end of the year, which makes it hard for every player to give their best effort at the YEC. They're slightly, just slightly above a MS title, but it's hard for me to put them close to the level of a slam and elevate one player over another due to YEC titles.

Sharapova is still ahead of Clijsters to me, because a slam is a slam, and everything else is a level below. 2 slams to 1 for Sharapova. The MS and YEC should only be used when players are tied in the slam count, to me, unless there's a fluke 1 time slam winner, which Sharapova certainly isnt.

Also, look @ who each beat in their slam finals. Clijsters beat Mary Pierce, while Sharapova beat Henin, the other great HC besides Serena, and Ivanovic, who was playing good tennis at the time before her eventual downfall. She also wiped out Henin en route to that AO title in 08. So to me, there's no way you put Clijsters over Sharapova based on the slam results.

Well looks like Kim now has her own 2nd slam title on hard courts anyway, and did it by beating both Williams sisters along the way, so I guess there is nothing I have to defend my rank of Clijsters over Sharapova on hard courts against any longer.

 

[jamesblakefan#1]

Well looks like Kim now has her own 2nd slam title on hard courts anyway, and did it by beating both Williams sisters along the way, so I guess there is nothing I have to defend my rank of Clijsters over Sharapova on hard courts against any longer.

At the time, I stand by my putting Sharapova over Clijsters. Still do. Obviously coming back now, things change due to Clisters USO title, but at the time Sharapova over Clijsters was not a ludicrous stance, you know that.

 

[flying24]

I actually was considering now moving Clijsters up to being over Henin on hard courts. However Henins head to head ownership over Clijsters in slam finals on hard courts prevents me from doing so. Well as much as 2-0 can be considered ownership that is. If Kim wins a 3rd hard court slam in Australia though I probably will move Kim up over Justine even with the head to head between the two. Kim with 1 Australian Open, 2 U.S Opens, and 2 WTA Championships would have to be put over Justine with the same IMHO just because despite Justines head to head edge Justines record on hard courts has some holes in it- all those round of 16 U.S Open losses, never winning Miami. So Kim will move up from 3rd to 2nd on my list if she wins the Australian Open.