This Just In: USTA Not To Penalize Norcal 4.0/Backesto Park Team!!

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by Joeyg, Dec 20, 2006.

  1. Joeyg

    Joeyg Semi-Pro

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    Well, I spoke to a member of the 4.0 Backesto Park team and apparently the USTA decided there wasn't enough evidence to warrant any penalties for the incident at Nationals. I find this to be totally in character for the dunces at the USTA. As long as they are getting their $18.00 for every team you join, and they want you to play on as many as you can, all is good in the world of league tennis!

    Just my two cents.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2006
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  2. robkat

    robkat Semi-Pro

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    It is all about the mightly $$$.... same stuff happens here on the east coast in the USTA's Mid Atlantic section. This year and in the future, I decided to keep my $35 membership fee in my pocket due to siimlar issues, like you described above. The only thing I was getting get out of the USTA was lousy tennis and a free Tennis mag. I can get the the magazine for $12 a year and save $23.
     
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  3. Richard Pur

    Richard Pur Rookie

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    This is ridiculous!! How about a boycott? I wouldn't mind saving the $23.

    And you wonder why tennis is in a downward spiral.
     
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  4. tennismike33

    tennismike33 Semi-Pro

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    As I have no idea what happened, is there a link we can log onto and look at the details.

    Of course without the details I think the USTA screwed something up, lol!!!
     
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  5. 10sguy

    10sguy Rookie

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    *And you're gonna believe THOSE GUYS??!! Sure, it's possible that's the case - but before everyone here gets all riled up, why not get the facts? (or did you just hafta be first with the news?) *
     
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  6. BigGriff

    BigGriff Semi-Pro

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    This is not a shock to me at all. I occasionally play with a few members from the Beckesto Park team and when I spoke to them about the incident they either acted like it was no big deal or played dumb.
     
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  7. Dr. Van Nostrand

    Dr. Van Nostrand New User

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    The USTA Norcal 2006 Sanction webpage does not indicate any action was taken against any of the members of that team.
    http://www.norcal.usta.com/generic/custom.sps?iType=2058&icustompageid=17316
     
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  8. Joeyg

    Joeyg Semi-Pro

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    10SGuy,

    I could care less about being first. I am telling you that this is the case. Whether you choose to believe it or not is your business. I have been on the USTA's case in NorCal for years. I have complained about many things and nothing seems to change. The board of directors all have very specific agendas that they are pushing on the members.

    I firmly believe that as long as the board is elected by proxy that NOTHING will change. Until it is one person, one vote, we will be stuck with whomever the club owners and the insiders deem acceptable.

    Until that time, I will grudingly be playing only age group tourneys. No more of the corrupt BS shenannigans that happen in league play for me!

    Joe Grech
     
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  9. gokou703

    gokou703 Rookie

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    By the way 10sguy word gets around so fast in norcal, especially since Backesto Park is a local team (south bay). I talked to my own teammates and Joeyg is right just to let you know. Backesto park wasn't penalized. SO before embarrassing yourself on these threads you should actually find out the facts before denying anyone's word is false.
     
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  10. Raiden.Kaminari

    Raiden.Kaminari Semi-Pro

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    #10
  11. 10sguy

    10sguy Rookie

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    Hey GOUKOU703 . . . you wanna talk about it now???
     
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  12. BiGGieStuFF

    BiGGieStuFF Hall of Fame

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    Very Nice ;)
     
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  13. gokou703

    gokou703 Rookie

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    Yeah man i'm right here ready and willing to talk...btw its spelled GOKOU703 as of 12/21/06 there wasn't any action taken and i'm extremely happy that recently there was a decision that was made. If you look at the most RECENT Inside Tennis Magazine (Norcal's) Backesto Park is still recognized for their success. So with all this recognition for Backesto Park's success it wasn't so far fetched to believe that little action was taken...i.e. no record of action taken place...http://www.norcal.usta.com/generic/custom.sps?iType=2058&icustompageid=17316

    Eventually I was proven wrong but the way you responded to JoeyG's post:
    Originally Posted by 10sguy
    *And you're gonna believe THOSE GUYS??!! Sure, it's possible that's the case - but before everyone here gets all riled up, why not get the facts? (or did you just hafta be first with the news?) *

    ..was quite immature and rude...
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2007
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  14. amarone

    amarone Semi-Pro

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    Interesting grievance result write-up. I have served on a grievance committee and we always stated what our finding was. This write-up states what the committee did, then dished out the suspensions, but does not say why. One can obviously draw conclusions, but you cannot tell whether the suspensions were because people did play under a false name or because the players refused to answer the questions.
     
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  15. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    Where did they get the imposters from? Did they get them because they didn't have players available or because they wanted to make sure they won and found players not on the team that were better?
     
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  16. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    They must have got them from some losing local 5.0 team. Just kidding. Now that you mention it who are the imposters and are they included in the sanction?
     
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  17. Raiden.Kaminari

    Raiden.Kaminari Semi-Pro

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    Yeah, it's one of the problems of the national grievance decision. Besides apparently suspending the registered captain and not the acting captain for 10 years.

    If you read the other threads, they apparently got the other players from the Backesto 4.5 (former 5.0 players that tanked their matches one season to get down to 4.5).
     
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  18. Joeyg

    Joeyg Semi-Pro

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    And now the Backesto Park 4.5 team is back in business! Check out their roster this season. I am sure they are planning a return trip to Nationals after tanking their matches at 5.0! I know a bunch of these guys and to think they lost legitimately to some of these 5.0's is a joke.
     
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  19. tennis_nerd22

    tennis_nerd22 Hall of Fame

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    i agree, however, its not tennis in the world, just tennis in North America in my opinion
     
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  20. kylebarendrick

    kylebarendrick Professional

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    #20
  21. Joeyg

    Joeyg Semi-Pro

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    I see that Tuan Lam got 10 years as the captain. However, he wasn't even there. He could not make the trip. I would imagine that an appeal is imminent. As for the others, I see that anyone that played a match was suspended for 5 years. Is this fair? Some of these guys didn't do anything wrong, but just didn't rat out the imposters. I would imagine that the Texas coach who knowingly played a ranked junior and the junior himself deserve at least 5 years if this is the criteria used by USTA National to suspend people. Your thoughts?
     
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  22. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    I think everyone on the team who failed to rat out imposters should be suspended. Come on, if you *know* your captain is fielding players who are flat out not on your team, how can you stand by and say nothing?

    People who stand by while such things are going on are co-conspirators -- just as guilty as their fellow conspirators.
     
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  23. [​IMG]

    party in question. Public info. That's all.
     
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  24. cak

    cak Professional

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    Appeals had to be in by Feb 12th. I suspect they waited this long to put these on the NorCal page until all appeals ran their course.
     
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  25. Raiden.Kaminari

    Raiden.Kaminari Semi-Pro

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    I have to agree with you there ... however, as I posted before, they suspended the captain who wasn't even there, rather than the acting captain, for 10 years. The players should have reported the improper behavior of the acting captain if they wanted not to be suspended, but they thought they could get away with the "innocent, until proven guilty."

    I guess they didn't read on the boards that they had information against them collected by USTA.
     
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  26. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Hey, the captain signed the scorecards (or so I read). When I'm not at a match, I don't sign the scorecard; the sub captain does.
     
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  27. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    I am sure that forging the captains signature was not beneath anyone on that team.
     
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  28. BigJEFF

    BigJEFF New User

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    I agree

    I agree they both knew the rules and broke them
     
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  29. ferocious4hand

    ferocious4hand Semi-Pro

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    Apparently this was big enough of a story to make it in Tennis Magazine's May issue. How sad...
     
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  30. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    .......and I am sure the story was not one of the USTA's press releases. The story was big outside the USTA especially on message boards like this one. The USTA had no where to hide on this one!
     
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  31. the_playa

    the_playa New User

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    i couldn't find it in the may issue. where is it?
     
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  32. ferocious4hand

    ferocious4hand Semi-Pro

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    don't recall the page # but it was a side column not very noticable

    edit: pg 24
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2007
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  33. Cruzer

    Cruzer Professional

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    Some or maybe all of the suspended guys appear to have appealed the initial suspensions handed out. The captain's suspension is now only three years. I guess since he wasn't present his penalty should not have been more severe than those who were there. The longest suspension is five years for a few guys.
     
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  34. OzNQc

    OzNQc Rookie

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    Hey dudes....what actually happened?

    This thread sounds kinda funny, but maybe not to the losing side(s) in your USTA tourney or whatever it was!

    Sorry for asking but what actually happened??

    quite an intriguing thread...lotsa suspended players!

    I remember 2 state graders in oz having a nice push and shove on the tennis court which got them suspended a long time ago hehehe And i also heard that 2 aspiring pros at a grasscourt tourney in oz went at it in the carpark after 1 had enough of the other hooking him on line calls. The guy who was not cheating finally responded with an out call on a ball that was clearly a metre in the court hahaha And then the fistycuffs were on!
    By the way, the cheater was not allower to play in our state for 1 yr or more
    hahahaha
     
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  35. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Why were the sentences reduced so significantly? I mean, for example, the captain's sentence was reduced from a 10 year suspension to only a 2 year suspension? That's barely a slap on the wrists!

    http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/NorCalTennisTalk/message/1038

    http://www.norcal.usta.com/generic/custom.sps?iType=2058&icustompageid=17316
     
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  36. JLyon

    JLyon Hall of Fame

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    is anyone truly surprised that the USTA only gave these guys a slap on the wrist. they won't even follow their own guidelines set in place to protect the integrity of League Tennis.
    If they followed their own rules you would see a huge increase in 4.5, 5.0, and 5.5 divisions as more players would be placed in their true divisions.
     
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  37. goober

    goober Legend

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    I don't understand how they could reduce the suspension so significantly from 10 to 2 years. I don't care if he was actually there or not. He knew what was going on and condoned it. He was the captain, not some guy peripherally associated with the team. It makes the comments that the USTA made in Tennis magazine look like a joke.
     
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  38. HoustonHacker

    HoustonHacker New User

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    The suspension is ridiculously light given the fact that he has a history of breaking the rules. A long history.
     
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  39. DavaiMarat

    DavaiMarat Professional

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    Lol, Sorry Cindy but that's a very idealistic if not somewhat naive POV. You would rat on your captain for using an illegal player on a league night. You wouldn't last very long in many teams I tell you that much.

    I'm not saying what they did was wrong but would you rat on your friends and jeopardize your spot on the team? I don't think so.
     
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  40. max8176

    max8176 Rookie

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    Long history??
     
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  41. Raiden.Kaminari

    Raiden.Kaminari Semi-Pro

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    Who are you speaking about?
     
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  42. Raiden.Kaminari

    Raiden.Kaminari Semi-Pro

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    Hmmm ... Do the right thing, or just stay teammates with people who are cheaters? Some of the teams are formed to be competitive, and don't necessarily have guys who are friends. Also, players can submit information directly to USTA and request anonymity. So the right thing would have been the players present in Hawaii present information. Then again, if you are willing to stay friends with people willing to cheat, I'm sure you would be willing to be "friends" with proven murderers, con artists, ID thieves, child molesters, spouse abusers, etc. To cheat at something so small in life is pitiful, and reflects poorly on their character.

    So if it had been me on that team and I had information, I would have told the other players my name was my honor and that I wouldn't stand for what they did.
     
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  43. Raiden.Kaminari

    Raiden.Kaminari Semi-Pro

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    More like very disappointed :(
     
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  44. Raiden.Kaminari

    Raiden.Kaminari Semi-Pro

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    It was probably because the captain wasn't actually physically in Hawaii when the player replacement occurred.

    However, what I'm really surprised about is that the people responsible (the replacement player and acting captain) were not been identified and suspended.

    My suggestion would be to suspend NorCal from participating in any National event for two years.
     
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  45. Raiden.Kaminari

    Raiden.Kaminari Semi-Pro

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    I got an e-mail from USTA with the grievance appeal results, but since I didn't review any of the "appeal" information presented, I have no idea what made the National appeal committee reduce the suspensions. Needless to say, I'm sure many members of USTA are very disappointed.

    We should all contact USTA about the decision to say it's simple B.S. and to suspend NorCal from participating in Nationals until they clean up their act.
     
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  46. kylebarendrick

    kylebarendrick Professional

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    Why is suspending NorCal from Nationals a reasonable response? The event occurred at a national tournament, not a NorCal one - it was national USTA that should have caught this when it happened and taken the appropriate steps.

    If someone from your section uses a ringer impersonating a team member at a national event, should your whole section be banned also? NorCal is now requiring photo IDs at all matches. At least that's a start.

    Now if we can just get rid of the ratings appeals and add some verifiers at the District levels...
     
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  47. DavaiMarat

    DavaiMarat Professional

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    Ummmm dude,

    Cheating by fielding illegal players is one thing...being friends with thieves and child molesters are another...lets not get too dramatic here.

    I've played on alot of teams. I've captained a few and played on many. I hated captaining. I've never fielded illegal players because I was organized but I've been on teams where my captain has brought a outside player, got the club to give him a 'team' membership just to field the 5 teams we needed. Did it matter he/she was a former national ranked junior? Honestly, you'd be hard pressed to find a captain out there who hasn't had to pull some strings to field a competitive team.

    Not saying what he did was right but it's not realistic for someone to say sanctimoniously say it's easy to 'BLOW THE WHISTLE' on your captain, that's all I'm saying. For example, you friend smokes weed, it's illegal, would you call the police on him. That's all I'm saying.

    It's easy to be sanctimonious from a outsiders point of view, they got punished that's the important thing. However, to judge them beyond that and to say u'd rat out your entire team, your friends, because u were on some moral high horse is unrealistic. Quit the team maybe, but to call foul? U'd probably wouldn't want to play at that club anymore.
     
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  48. penpal

    penpal Rookie

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    I do think so.

    It's a pretty easy decision actually. Your captain plays someone who you know to be an illegal entry, you say something to an official -- case closed. And if you are friends with the captain, you tell him/her not to play this person before the incident even takes place, in no uncertain terms.

    Davai - your line of reasoning, taken to its logical conclusion, is exactly the type of reasoning that results in the formation of criminal organizations. You might say, "hey, I'm just being realistic," and that's not untrue, but that doesn't mean you should criticize someone else for acting in a way that is morally superior.
     
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  49. DavaiMarat

    DavaiMarat Professional

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    Before this becomes a mud slinging fest. If those guys truly tanked an entire season just to drop a division to win, screw 'em they got what they deserve and probably deserve more. I totally agree with that.

    However, you'd be hard pressed to find a captain who hasn't fielded someone who shouldn't be in a division. We had one team in our A league that like never had the same team twice literally. It was ringer central (like former futures/satellite players). Lol some of them didn't even speak english. In our minds they weren't even a team but what could we really do or say?
    They were too good to play in that division?

    Oh well. I just find it odd you'd condemn me to be immoral and injust. If you've played as long as I have, played on as many teams I have, you'd be hard pressed to have not been on a team who hasn't fielded a player who was over qualified for the division. I may have even been that player at some point (ie Like a friend needed a player for his B2 team.)

    Can you truly say you've never seen any of this or been on a team where anything like this has happen. Then I must be the most vile morally corrupt human being along with everyone I've played with.

    Maybe I'm wrong thinking the way I do. I tend not to judge to harshly because simply we've all been on the side of doing something 'selfish or morally questionable' at some point. Also, it tend to keep my hair brown instead of white.

    Cheers,

    Mike
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2007
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  50. skiracer55

    skiracer55 Hall of Fame

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    Wowee...

    ...so this is what NTRP leagues are all about? I rest my case. I'm going to play age group only. I'm not going anywhere near this kind of nonsense...
     
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