Throttle-off release FH

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by thug the bunny, Oct 14, 2011.

  1. thug the bunny

    thug the bunny Professional

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    Lately, I am noticing that sometimes during a match I execute this swing that produces amazing results. When I am hitting well and confident, I can pull these shots off, where I prepare well, see the ball well, and then unwind accelerating the head on the desired line...but then, maybe a foot or two before contact, I throttle off. I just let go and cut the power. Everything (body, arm, racquet) keeps flowing through the ball, but it results in a pure release, and unreal power and control.

    Of course this is only possible when I have time. For many other shots you need to keep a firm wrist and (more or less) guide the head through.

    I only do this off the FH. I think the 2HBH is too restricted to allow this kind of release.

    I guess the question is, is this a valid swing thought? When I have a good ball to hit, to pursue this kind of release? Am I on the right path?
     
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  2. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    As in.... "let the racket do the work" ...?
    The reason we have a practiced and scripted prep takeback AND a scripted followthru is to allow the racket to find it's proper hitting angle to hit the ball.
    Like in golf, the swing needs the full prep stroke AND the followthru, to get the club in the right plane to hit correctly.
     
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  3. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    the above is wrong.. as the racket head travels along the path that resembles a big S for a FH, there is no moment when the wrist is 'firm and guiding'.
     
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  4. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Well, maybe a volley should be "firm and guided".
    Imagine a golfer with no takeback and no followthru expecting to hit a clean long ball....just muscle it ala Barkley.
     
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  5. Giannis

    Giannis Rookie

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  6. papa

    papa Hall of Fame

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    Relaxed wrist is the right approach but the "grip" itself has got to be firmed up at contact.
     
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  7. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    Agreed! If you keep your hand, wrist and arm relaxed and tension free, the racquet will find the proper swing path, and the weight of the racquet will be allowed to fullfil its proper function. Guiding can only result in inhibiting racquet speed and/or changing the correct swing path of the racquet.
     
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  8. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    No! That's the common wisdom that has been taught for 90 years. And it may have been correct with old school groundies in which it was also tought to **** the wrist and keep the racquet head above the hand. But, if you are hitting a modern stroke, and you keep your hand, wrist and arm totally tension free thoughout the stroke, including contact, you will be amazed at the result. It was an epiphany for me. Light weight racquets suddenly plow through the ball effortlessly. Power and spin are increased beyond anything you could produce by "swinging hard." Without interference, the racquet takes the correct, natural swing path it is supposed to take following a proper windup.

    Check out this video of Federer. Do you think he is firming his grip at contact? Watch what happens when he hits slightly off center at about :35 seconds. If his grip were any loser, the racquet would come out of his hand.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ImeQaAyFPc

    Watch this video of Soderling's forehand. Pay close attention to what happens to the racquet at contact. If he had any tension in his grip whatsoever, the racquet would not turn over like that.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JivAVMB37c0

    In this video of Nadal it may be hard to tell because he makes such clean contact. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1s6o66M1Lsg&feature=related
     
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  9. papa

    papa Hall of Fame

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    OK, we'll have to disagree here then. I want the wrist relaxed but the grip firm on contact.

    In the first clip, Federer is just warming up/working out, so I'm going to leave that one alone.

    In the second, its hard to tell from the film but I feel quite certain that the grip was firm at contact.

    If you follow Nadal, you'll see that his grip is very firm at contact.

    IMO, the grip has to be firm at contact and the wrist releases although passive rather than deliberate. It certainly isn't old school thinking and I would ask you to provide a credible reference that suggest your grip should be loose at contact - loose to me means that I could easily rotate or grab the racquet out of your hand at contact. I very loose grip is fine if I'm trying a drop-dead volley but on ground stroke the grip has to be firm at contact.
     
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  10. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    I know how you feel, I thought the same thing for about 42 years because that's what I was taught. Then I was taught a modern forehand and that premise no longer holds true, if it ever did. I don't know what your forehand looks like, but, if you are hitting a modern forehand with a firm grip at contact you are leaving much, if not most, of the benefits of a modern forehand on the table. You don't have to take my word for it, try it for yourself. Give it a hitting session and see what happens.

    Yes, when I say relaxed grip, I mean holding it with just enough pressure that the racquet doesn't fly out of my hand, similar to my grip on serve. In fact, the first few times I tried it, I wasn't sure if the racquet was going to fly out of my hand. Yes, that means you could pull the racquet out of my hand without much effort. But again, you don't have to take my word for it.

    For me, it was an epiphany. The same epiphany, I think, that Thug the Bunny started this thread for.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2011
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  11. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    I conclude that limp is a 3.5 at best... Based on his understanding of the fh, bh, and voleys
     
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  12. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    I conclude that Dozu is 2.5 at best based on his inability to spell volley.
     
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  13. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    another classic fallacy in switching out the topic.... just show your face, and we can talk.
     
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  14. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    Hahaha! I was giving you a taste of your own medicine but it was lost on you. Dozu, I can see that I ascribed more intellect to you than was merited. Sorry, I won't make that mistake again.
     
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  15. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    good - so you are the family cat
     
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  16. bhupaes

    bhupaes Professional

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    Good topic. I agree with Limpin' on this one - IMO, the wrist has to be as loose as possible, with no deliberate attempt to tighten the grip at any time. This may actually need to be learned... I'm not so sure that the body automatically does the right thing. There are many videos where one can see the racquet twist in pros' hands when they hit off center.

    I can't quite put my finger on why this works so well. In theory, gripping more firmly should add more of the mass of the hand/arm system to the effective mass of the racquet and yield a more powerful stroke, but in practice, one gets less power and less control, even for me.

    The explanations I believe in are, (1) gripping tightly also tightens the muscles that need to be loose for optimal release and slows the stroke, and (2) more mass at contact simply means more mass needs to be controlled, which is harder and so one ends up with less control.
     
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  17. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    I agree with (1) but not (2). I think that the "release" you refer to in (1) is release of the mass of the racquet. It seems to me that gripping the racquet tighter inhibits the mass of the racquet to do its job - plow through the ball and follow the natural swing path of a proper wind up and forward swing.

    I also suspect that players who think that they need 12oz + racquets to handle pace without having their racquets pushed around are gripping their racquets too tight. That's exactly what happened to me. When I discovered that I could hold the racquet loosely, I also discovered that an 11oz racquet had all the plow I needed, even against hard flat penetrating groundies.
     
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  18. papa

    papa Hall of Fame

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    Well, tomorrow is my day off and I'm not going near any tennis court BUT, tell you what I'll do. Monday, although I have clinics a good portion of the day and lessons later on, I'll have someone feed me balls and I'll give your method a try. I'm not concerned the racquet will fly from my hand (I've been at this a long time), I just find it difficult to buy into your premise and have never heard anyone suggest it. But lets see what happens.

    I suspect you would fine my forehand just fine so I think I would be a good test of your theory. Lets see what happens.

    Now, just as a matter of clarification, were talking about feeds/serves that are being delivered with good hard pace and not something just peppered over the net. I know I can hit some of the easy stuff holding the racquet with a couple of fingers and have a bungee cord around my arms but were talking stuff coming with reasonably good pace & spin - I hope that's what were talking about.
     
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  19. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFGrmHocmjM

    starting 3:50 on grip pressure.

    for a FH, should start around 2-3/10, natually tighten to 7-8/10 at impact.. this has been discussed many times.

    papa I think you are falling into the faceless trap.

    I am convinced that Limp is one of those old hacks you see play social doubles on weekends, who face some patty cake balls that his 10 oz racket with light grip pressure can still handle.

    there is no other way to explain why he said what he said.
     
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  20. papa

    papa Hall of Fame

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    Thanks dosu. I've been around this game for quite a while as a player, teacher and coach. Pretty hard to trap me although I certainly have my severe doubts about the premise being considered. As I mentioned, many of us can strike the ball pretty cleanly using just a couple of fingers and not using our arms - probably better than most players using everything so we'll see what happens.
     
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  21. bhupaes

    bhupaes Professional

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    Regarding (2), I think we're saying the same thing in different ways. The larger effective mass that includes the mass of the hand has an adverse effect on the swing path. The smaller muscles that effect finer control are not optimally effective.

    Well, racquet weight is a very personal thing. I am used to a 12 oz set up that's head light (SW about 335), but I grip very lightly. I know one 5.0 player who uses a much heavier set up than I do, and a couple of 4.5 level players whose racquets are less than 11 oz. I find that if I use a light racquet, I lose the easy power I need for first strike... and my serves slow down noticeably.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2011
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  22. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Interesting experiment today.
    I have some different rackets.
    Brought my usual Aero500 at 10.2 oz to the courts, along with my HeadTi of the same size and weight.
    Aero served DEAD balls about thigh high on the backboard most times, like 8 out of 10.
    Ti served knee high most times. Had 15 guage tourney nylon.
    Aero had 16 LuxBB.
    Balls were a mixture of 6 month old DunlopHDChampsHardCourts and really really flat PennHD's.
    Guy hitting with a very good 12 year old was 6'6" tall easy. His serves with his balls (the one he was hitting with the up and coming kid), bounced the same, but his serves were top/slices. Kid's serves didn't hit the fence on the second bounce, but he could out rally me for sure.
    I think lightweight rackets serve well if they have lots of power.
    There are lightweight rackets which are soft and have no power, of course.
     
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  23. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    Remember, I said "suspect." I say that because I've always preferred the feel of a heavier racquet, 12-12.5oz, that is fairly flexible and head light, myself. But, when I discovered the "relaxed grip," it dawned on me that the reason I preferred heavier racquets was because I wasn't allowing the mass of the racquet to do its job by gripping too firmly at contact, so I needed a heavier racquet to compensate. Obviously, my next step is to demo some lighter weight power racquets and test my theory. I'm thinking Pure Drive, Pro Open and maybe the New Head Instict, all of which are about 300g unstrung. There are so many highly ranked local juniors who use these kinds of racquets and just tear the frikkin cover off of the ball. The lighter weights don't seem to hurt them one bit.

    I also suspect (hope, pray), that gripping the racquet too firmly at contact (on all shots), is the underlying cause of my tennis elbow. Wouldn't that be an interesting discovery! If this new "relaxed grip" helps prevent that, I'll be switching back to co-poly strings shortly.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2011
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  24. papa

    papa Hall of Fame

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    Sounds like were changing the parameters of this quite a bit now. I've never mentioned holding the racquet too firmly/tight at or before contact. I think most of know what that can do especially if done prior to contact.

    Tennis elbow, can be cause by several factors but primarily by using too much arm and basically not using a proper stroke - I see it everyday. There are many ways to strike a ball but just using the arm will get everyone in trouble quickly.
     
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  25. papa

    papa Hall of Fame

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    Interesting post. I've strung with 17 LuxBB on a couple of occasions but really had trouble controlling the ball and cut it out of my racquets - fun to hit with but I just didn't have the control although the power is awesome. I've been using Prince Black's for the last couple of months and Wilson Surge's prior to that (both 100). I string my own stuff but also found that LuxBB is sure one pain in the neck to work with - like stringing with a watch spring.

    Surprised you use a 15 guage in your Aero - doesn't it make it very stiff?
     
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  26. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    Well, I've been playing tennis since 1969, evolving from Continental, to Eastern to SW grips, with every design of racquet you could imagine, and maybe some you couldn't imagine, and I never had tennis elbow until I started using polyester string. Having said that, I'm not sure what you mean by "changing the parameters." When I say "relaxed grip" I mean holding the racquet just firmly enough to keep it from coming out of your hand, and NOT adding any pressure at contact. As the OP has observed, IT WORKS. I don't think I changed that. What's not clear is whether the OP also means to decelerate his racquet. That's not a part of what I'm talking about. I'm accelerating through contact and decelerating in the follow through. But, my grip remains loose throughout.

    Whether this turns out to be a remedy/resolution for tennis elbow remains to be seen. I'm just speculating (hoping) out loud. But, think about it, if you are holding the racquet loosely so that the shock/vibration of contact is not transferred to your arm, but rather, remains in the racquet, doesn't it seem logical that a loose grip might resolve and/or prevent tennis elbow? I'm pretty excited about the prospect. If it works out, it re-opens my racquet and string options. I'd love to be able to handle a mid-weight power racquet like the Pure Drive with a full bed of RPM or Lux ALU rather than the very arm friendly, but very low powered, Dunlop 300T's (leaded up to about 12oz+), and soft multifilament strings I've been using.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2011
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  27. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    'NOT adding pressure at contact'.

    sorry Limp - sounds like 40+ years later you are still stuck at 3.5 level, because that's the kind of balls that OP is facing.

    I know, because I don't need to add grip pressure against 3.5 balls.

    this playing level would explain your opinion on FHs, volleys, bh slices.

    and who gets TENNIS elbow on FHs? that is called the golf elbow.
     
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  28. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    Perhaps your lack of understanding arises from your lack of playing experience against higher level competition. I suggest you play a few sanctioned tournaments in which, no doubt, you'll play a high seed in the first round. That way, you'll gain the experience that you need to make credible comments on a tennis forum.
     
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  29. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    wrong Limp - people already know how I play.... but nobody knows how you do

    (well, except the good players in the know who can tell that you are a low level hack based on the posts you've made).

    I am just trying to do a public service so that many beginners won't have their progress derailed by reading your stuff.
     
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  30. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    I don't think anyone on TT knows how you play, Doze. You've posted video of yourself hitting against a wall and down the middle of the court against a hacker. That has very little to do with matchplay, Dozu. If you had matchplay experience, you'd know that. Now, go play some sanctioned tournaments and get the experience you need to have the wisdom to give credible advice online.
     
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  31. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    limp - how about we make a deal. you post something against the wall or down the middle against a 'hacker', I will sign up for a tournament.

    I bet $5 now that you are gonna come up with some other lame excuse.

    faceless cowards always do - they never run out of excuses.

    come on - it's a very good offer.... my condition used to be a $3k bet... but for you, Limp, I am gonna lower the bar, to just some amateur videos.
     
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  32. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    Sorry Doze. I keep my identity on line strictly confidential. Further, posting video of me hitting against a wall would prove only that I can hit the ball, nothing more. How you hit against a wall, Doze, doesn't mean a thing when it comes to how your game holds up in matchplay.

    From your post I gather that you have no matchplay experience. Not a big deal. But, it's laughable (as well as arrogant and hypocritical), that one who has no matchplay experience, goes around assigning playing levels - not only to himself, but to others - when you haven't played any matches. Apparently, you don't understand that playing levels refer to how you play, not how you hit against a wall. Bottom line, if you haven't played sanctioned matches, then you really don't know what you're talking about when it comes to level of play.
     
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  33. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    looks like I just won the $5 bet.... no surprise there.

    I kinda feel bad for picking on a senior citizen... but tennis is tennis... It will be best that you put up a disclaimer that you cannot show your face due to the low playing level... think of the damage you can do to all the kids out there trying to learn this game.

    'strictly confidential'... yeah right, not the first time I've heard this.... wasn't there some big shot coach who couldn't show face due to some 'legal constraints'? I had to offer free legal advice from my lawyer friend... arche3 offered up his lawyers as well... alas, no bite.

    excuses excuses.... that's what faceless guys are never short of.
     
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  34. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    Hahaha! "Tennis is tennis?" How would you know? Go play a real match in a sanctioned tournament and get back. You'll be the better, wiser, player for it. Until then, you're not really a player, are you? You're still digging that hole.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2011
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  35. DavaiMarat

    DavaiMarat Professional

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    Again we fall into the game of explaining the same thing yet misunderstanding all too well what the other is saying. Grip pressure, wrist relaxation, arbitrary grip ratings i.e. 2/10, 8/10.

    When it comes down to it, the ball doesn't care...nor does the racket or strings.

    From my understanding of the OP 1st post, he's experiencing what it feels like not to muscle the ball. It's as plain and simple as that. What he's explaining as guiding is simply his way of explaining it feels like when a looser grip and arm tension is involved in striking a ball. You get a longer swing path and smoother acceleration of the racket and of course with the added benefit of greater power, control and repeatability (endurance wise).

    You can make fun of each other spelling all day. I know mine is horrible. It brings us no closer to understanding the OP and his experience.

    If someone can refute my argument please go ahead, till then OP let me know if you want some tips to repeat this type of experience. I might be able to help.
     
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  36. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    ^^ now here is something from a guy with a face, and therefore there is a base for discussion... I know exactly what you mean, and I know exactly what I should say.

    the scale of 10 - it's just a tool to communicate this feel to a student, because loose/tight/relaxed may be interpreted differently by different people, so putting a number on it could make it easier to understand.

    what you said is correct.. I am just saying that OP appears to be in the learning state where he has not faced any real incoming pace/spin yet, therefore this loosy goosy feel...

    if I hit a drop shot, I am 2/10 thru out, but if I have to counter a 85mph incoming groundie and try to hit it back 85mph, then the grip pressure will tighten to 8/10 AT IMPACT.
     
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  37. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    Did you read the whole thread? I think that I'm talking about the same thing that the OP is talking about, except, I am not decelerating. It's not clear to me if he is decelerating. What I explained in my posts is that I'm hold the racquet firmly enough to keep it from coming out of my hand, but not increading the firmness at any time including at contact. This was an epiphany for me. Read my posts and let me know what you think.
     
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  38. DjokerRules

    DjokerRules Banned

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    I haven't tried the loose grip throughout yet, but just thinking out loud. It would seem to me that if you hold the racquet loose throughout, so that it doesn't fall out of your hand, you might be defeating the purpose of the kinetic chain. i.e that the energy transferred from the rotating body to the loose whip arm is not going to be transferred to the racquet due to too loose a grip. My guess is that the grip should be tight enough such that the tennis racquet acts as a fused appendage of the hand so that the maximum amount of the energy could be transferred to it. Thoughts?
     
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  39. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    this discussion has gone to the point, where Confucius would call it 'chickens trying to talk to ducks'.

    it's very easy to fall into this trap, we perceive the world from our own individual experiences.

    take DavaiMarat for example - he hits against good pace, for rec standards, I bet $5 that his grip pressure is fairly firm at impact, and is FIRMER than before the impact.

    now - on the other side of the debate, there is a faceless guy who says - 'I don't add grip pressure', then everybody goes off with counter arguments blah blah, WITHOUT knowing what the premises are.... he is not adding pressure, why? because he has discovered some secrets in tennis? or because he is facing balls that come at 45 mph? in all likelihood, the latter is the case, because the guy is a senior citizen playing patty cake balls against other senior citizens.

    It might sound cruel or impolite, but that is the truth.

    Before we see faces, before we understand where the arguments are coming FROM, why even bother?
     
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  40. rkelley

    rkelley Hall of Fame

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    So back on topic . . .

    Yes, I think you're on the right track. I don't think of it as throtling off exactly, though I understand what you mean. I think of it as I've just unloaded everything I have into the racquet before contact. It's the whole kinetic chain idea. At contact I'm just fine tuning the power that I've already released. The racquet head just whips into the ball. Your fh, bh, and serves should all feel this way.

    Try hitting softer balls with that same feeling and form. What you should find is that those balls are almost effortless but there's still nice power.

    You can do this on the backhand too. With the two hander it's tighter feeling, but the same principle applies. And there will always be shots where you have to muscle it over, and there are some shots where want that firm grip and wrist - mostly shots where you're using your opponents power and just redirecting it. But that free flowing, whipping kind of stroke is where the big power lives. That should be the basic feeling that you're trying to achieve on ground strokes and serves.
     
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  41. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    I don't think so. The energy transferred to the racquet is the result of acceleration. If you read my prior posts, I explain that it seems to me that any muscle tension, including firming the grip, tends to inhibit both acceleration and the natural swing path created by a proper windup and forward swing before contact.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2011
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  42. Off The Wall

    Off The Wall Semi-Pro

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    Many players are reporting that the new string material is causing distress to their elbows. Some teaching pros I know are putting out warnings.
     
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  43. Can't think of a name

    Can't think of a name Rookie

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    [​IMG]
     
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  44. rkelley

    rkelley Hall of Fame

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    I've heard of lots of folks having arm problems with a full poly string bed. These are good juniors - good form and young arms. Many people go down in tension if they go full poly. Others, myself included, do a hybrid of poly and something softer. I do a poly in the mains (Luxilon or Huricane) and Babolat Excel Comfort in the crosses. I also don't like the way full poly volleys - zero feel.
     
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  45. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    Racquets are also much stiffer than they used to be. I remember when Sampras' PS85 was considered to be very stiff.
     
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  46. DavaiMarat

    DavaiMarat Professional

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    Simply my point. I think we're all talking about something we experience when we simply let go of the stroke instead of controlling every minutia. I'm not belittling anyone or anything. Just simply stating we should try to help the OP regain that sensation every time he plays...some my call it the zone...others may call it relaxed intensity.

    W.r.t to grip pressure there are different schools of philosophy on this. It's all dependent on your style and level. If you can hit the ball in the dead center of the sweet spot 10/10 times you could play with 2 fingers. However, for most of us, this isn't the case. I would advocate holding the racquet tight enough that you can always keep the frame in a proper relation to your forearm...not floppy...but not tight enough to cause tension in the arm or shoulder. This would be for ground strokes.

    Volleys on the other hand, I would squeeze a bit harder since your frame doesn't have the added benefit of momentum (unless you swing at your volleys) of your racquet to keep the frame stable during your volley. I get some kids to choke up the hand a inch when hitting them sometimes. In this case you want to create a good 'connection' between your body momentum and hand. A solid racquet head is necessary and hence a firmer grip is necessary. REmember in a good volley the head only moves 6-8 inches.
     
    #46
  47. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    this is wrong - how often do you hit dead center? 2-3 out of 10? so in theory you could produce 2-3 good fh's with 2 fingers.

    now go try that, against a ball machine set at pace that sends ball to you at your playing level, say 4.5-5.0

    I bet $5 you will produce ZERO balls that come close to what your normal FH is.

    what collides with the ball, is NOT the racket... it's the arm/racket unit.... like one of the post above, the racket is basically 'fused' to the hand like it's an extension of the arm.... if at impact no grip pressure is added, this is like hitting a ball with a broken arm or broken wrist... you can still swing fast with broken bones, but you can't compress the ball!
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2011
    #47
  48. papa

    papa Hall of Fame

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    Well, so much for that little experiment. Maybe others will have different success with a really loose grip at contact but it didn't work for me for several reasons.

    First, when one has a relatively fast swing, centrifugal force takes over and the racquet has a tendency to leave the hand - at least it did to me on a couple of occasions.

    Second, I use a relatively light frame (Prince, 100 Black) which I believe is a little over 10 oz and if my hand was really loose, the force of the ball pushes the racquet back so the hit was either extremely weak or in several cases didn't even make the net. The racquet just absorbs most/all the energy on the incoming ball and if I wasn't particularly careful striking the ball exactly on the long axis the force turned/torqued the racquet in my hand. Tried with a Wilson Surge 100 also but the results were the same.

    Third, although I've probably played more than many here, and have always advocated a loose wrist and light grip into/after contact, I found it difficult to maintain a very light grip through at and through contact - just seems very unnatural to me and it feels like I have little or no control.

    I also tried some static hitting and it didn't work well either - at least the way I hit.

    So, other than giving a few some good laughs it didn't prove anything to me. I suppose the word "firm" might mean different things to all of us. Squeezing the handle tight or as hard as you can does not mean firm to me.
     
    #48
  49. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    I suspect our premises are pretty close. I'm talking about a relaxed hand and wrist and not adding any firmness at any part of the swing, including contact. For me, it requires very little firmness to sufficiently maintain my wrist angle, but, I'm not sure how much you should maintain it. Federer, Nadal and Djoko all seem to have very flexible, relaxed wrists when looking at slow motion video of their forehands.

    As for volleys, I haven't yet experimented with this concept. It's still new to me. But, although I agree that the hand only moves a very short distance in a properly executed volley, the body is, or should be, moving forward as well. So, between the hand and body as a whole, there is probably about 1.5-2.0 feet of movement there, maybe more. Enough to get some significant acceleration of the mass of the racquet I would argue.
     
    #49
  50. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    Interesting! How would you characterize your stroke? Classing Eastern drive? Modern SW?
     
    #50

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