Thrown match

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by tdhawks, Jul 12, 2013.

  1. schmke

    schmke Professional

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    This probably deserves its own new thread, but we've been discussing here so I'll keep it here.

    I have another scenario where it seems pretty clear that an opponent of a self-rated player can have a match rating calculated and potential strike before the self-rated player has played their first 3 matches. Or this DQ was the result of something other than 3 strikes.

    See http://tennislink.usta.com/Leagues/...C7E5027D4A59487F3E2D1C63D2B1&par2=2013&par3=0

    The 5/5 match was played with another self-rated player (not a problem) but against a self-rated player (Kendall) playing his first (and only) match of the year. So this can't have generated a match rating.

    The 6/2 match was played with a C-rated partner against a self-rated player (Mikhail) playing just his second match. Unless Mikhail has a dynamic rating for computing opponents ratings against after just one match, this can't have generated a match rating.

    The 6/16 match was with the same self-rated partner as earlier and against a self-rated player (Terry) playing his first match. This can't have generated a match rating.

    The 7/14 match was a default, so no match rating.

    So through 4 matches, there should be no match ratings calculated. He proceeds to play 2 matches at Districts, both generating match ratings so I can see there being 2 at this point, but he now shows at DQ in TennisLink.

    Ideas?
     
    #51
  2. J_R_B

    J_R_B Hall of Fame

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    I think there is something else going on here. The two kids that got DQd are two of the top high school players in S Jersey, and I think this may have been a self-rating grievance or something. MO got DQd in a match he lost 2 & 2. It doesn't seem like a dynamic DQ to me.
     
    #52
  3. schmke

    schmke Professional

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    That's what I thought too, but someone else told me it was a 3 strike DQ.
     
    #53
  4. schmke

    schmke Professional

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    Well, looking at MO, I could perhaps explain his as a 3 strike DQ, but not JP.

    MO played on 4/28 with a low/middle 4.5 against two very good 4.5s and won a close match, that certainly gave him a strike.

    His 5/5 and 6/16 matches were the first and third of JPs matches so against self-rated in their first matches and shouldn't have changed anything.

    The 2&2 loss on 7/27 was a reasonable match rating (played a guy on his way to being bumped up), but given how high the first match was likely kept his dynamic high enough to still be a strike.

    Then the 7/28 was a very good match rating and would have kept his dynamic above the threshold and would be his third strike.
     
    #54
  5. goober

    goober Legend

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    I have seen it lots of times. Problem is that is impossible to prove. Unless the guy admits to doing it exactly how are you suppose to prove that he tanked? He can always say he was sick, injured, had a bad day or whatever. However when you see a 4.0 player who was on a team at Nationals just months earlier lose badly in straight sets to a 3.5C who has 50% winning record at 3.5 it is obvious what is going on. Probably the worst case I have seen is a guy get his ESR bumped to 4.5. He actually entered 4 tournaments in the fall and lost every single match including consolations to get his end of year rating to 4.0. He actually got his team to sectionals but the irony is that he ended up not making it nationals because one of his players got DQ at sectionals.

    The bottom line is unless you get rid of the incentive (sectionals and nationals) you will never get rid of teams doing this. Teams that are put together with the sole purpose of making it to post season will always have some element of this. You never see tanking in flex league and tournaments because there is no incentive to do so.
     
    #55
  6. chatt_town

    chatt_town Hall of Fame

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    You are right about that. You actually see people playing up a higher level because they aren't worried about being bumped. It's funny how that works with people.


     
    #56
  7. J_R_B

    J_R_B Hall of Fame

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    It's possible. Realistically, neither MO nor JP nor the guy MO lost to 2 & 2 are legit 4.5s. The guy who beat MO supposedly played with the Argentinian Davis Cup team as a hitting partner or something crazy like that and then signed up as a 4.0 (!) last year. He was eventually DQ'd, but it left him with an untouchable 4.5 B rating for this year.

    Ironically, there was a kid playing at the Philly 4.5 districts who was even better than all of these guys. He was hitting 100mph winners from absolutely everywhere on the court. The top level of 4.5 playoff tennis is just insane.
     
    #57
  8. J_R_B

    J_R_B Hall of Fame

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    Incidentally, IA, the other singles player (who won) on 7/27 plays one spot below MO on the same HS team that finished the year #9 in NJ. I was playing on the court next to that singles match, and that kid is a real stretch to call 4.5 as well. He was playing a guy who was a long time 5.0, and was undefeated at 5.0 last year playing all singles and got bumped down because everyone he played was a 4.5 playing up. He was blown off the court with only a little effort.
     
    #58
  9. schmke

    schmke Professional

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    You'd think he would have been part of the same self-rate grievance then. But if there was a grievance, perhaps the originator accomplished what they wanted from just JP being DQd and it would have cost more to file on another player.

    Note that I show IA likely having 2 strikes at this point. The 6/16 loss is likely the reason why not 3. Which back on the original subject of this thread, could it have been a thrown match? He did beat the same player 6-4,6-3 earlier in the year. A rematching ending up 6-4,6-2 the other way is certainly not that odd, but looking at the whole picture makes you go hmmm.
     
    #59
  10. J_R_B

    J_R_B Hall of Fame

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    I doubt it was a thrown match, but who knows? We're talking about kids who are prone to inconsistency and streakiness, so it just as easily could have been a bad match. The guy he played in those matches is also very good. He's a younger guy (mid/late 20s) who was bounced from 4.5 to 5.0 and back to 4.5 in the last couple years, so he's a top 4.5 singles player. I could easily see him winning legitimately if the kid had an off day.
     
    #60
  11. schmke

    schmke Professional

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    I was just told by someone that spoke to a league coordinator that he was told JP had 2 strikes coming in to Districts. I still don't see how, only 1 match was played against players with any kind of rating, but there you go. Either there are some shenanigans going on or something was lost in the communication.
     
    #61
  12. J_R_B

    J_R_B Hall of Fame

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    That's impossible. In the first match, three guys were S-rated playing their first match. The second match was a 3 & 2 win vs a 4.0 playing up and an S-rate whose only other match was a 1 & 0 loss (against a guy who is good for sure, but NOT a top ranked 4.5). The third match was two S rated kids playing their first match. I don't see ANY strikes before districts. The only way the second match could possibly be a strike is if JP the Dad had like a 3.5 DNTRP or something that would push up the kid's match rating super high, but he was 8-0 at 4.5 including 2-0 at sectionals in 2012, so that seems highly unlikely. It seems absolutely impossbile to me that JP's DQ was a three strike DQ.
     
    #62

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