Tired Of Thinking About A Split Step

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Cindysphinx, Dec 22, 2009.

  1. TheLama

    TheLama Banned

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    Sorry to be unclear.

    I am saying that you should jump rope to train, everyday. Do so just before going on court, after you have performed your warming-up routine. However, if you just warm-up on-court, than jump rope after tennis and before you cool down.
     
  2. crystal_clear

    crystal_clear Professional

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    I don't quite get this. :confused::confused:
     
  3. crystal_clear

    crystal_clear Professional

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    Thank you~
     
  4. crystal_clear

    crystal_clear Professional

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    I like this explanation. People are able to "feel" at a certain level.

    I hate someone told me to "feel" the car when I just started to learn how to drive.

    It sounds like this person didn't know how to explain things or the person just wanted to make something mysterious.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2010
  5. crystal_clear

    crystal_clear Professional

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    How does juming rope improve split-step?
     
  6. TheLama

    TheLama Banned

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    It trains you to stay on your toes, so that it is easy to do so for long periods of time, which makes split-stepping easier.

    However, my point was that these three female players moved exceptionally well, and they all jumped rope; there's a correlation.
     
  7. TheLama

    TheLama Banned

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    Most people move hard to the hit, but not as they recover. Therefore, each time you move slow to recover, you will be late in starting to move to the next shot. As you are late for each subsequent ball, you will eventually lose the point through movement attrition, as you will finally be too off balance to control your final shot.

    Dancing-in-Place: You called it a "Pendulum Step".

    Optimal Recovery Position: This is the position on your side of the court which bisects your opponents maximum shot possibilities. This is a question for your coach, since it is best taught on-court, or as a diagram, which I cannot do here for you.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2010
  8. crystal_clear

    crystal_clear Professional

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    I see. I jumped rope less than five minutes just for warm-up before a match.

    How many minutes do those three female players jump each time?
     
  9. VaBeachTennis

    VaBeachTennis Semi-Pro

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    He does make it look so easy. Notice the "fine" adjustments and movements he makes. I think some people who have problems with the split step are not being light on their feet and are making "gross" or exaggerated movements when situation doesn't warrant it.
     
  10. TheLama

    TheLama Banned

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    5-10 minutes of jumping rope should be fine as a training period, but jumping rope should not be used as a warm-up.

    The USTA has a warm-up section on their site. They call it Dynamic Stretching, but they are all basically martial arts exercises. You should take a look.
     
  11. Topaz

    Topaz Legend

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    Why can jump rope not be used as part of a warm up?
     
  12. maverick66

    maverick66 Hall of Fame

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    Im actually interested to hear his reason because I disagree that you cant jump rope to warm up.
     
  13. Topaz

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    I disagree as well, which is why I asked.
     
  14. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Is there a reason why this is not a good warm-up? Jump roping is used as a warm-up for athletics in general. I have not heard this is not good to do. I always thought good light jump roping to get your heart rate up is a good thing. I am not talking about power jump roping.

    Yes, dynamic stretching vs. static stretching. The benefits of dynamic stretching over static stretching for tennis is good.
     
  15. crystal_clear

    crystal_clear Professional

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    Why not? Is it too violent? I find the five minutes of rope jump as effective dynamic warm-up (or I need to run around the court where there isn't much space on the indoor court .) followed by static stretch.
     
  16. TheLama

    TheLama Banned

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    Training, and warming-up are not one in the same.

    As far as jumping rope to warm-up: It's pretty difficult to "slow" jump rope. Therefore, IMO, you are jumping directly into training, and skipping the warm-up.

    Secondly, the original poster is over 35-years old, and jumping rope puts stress on the achilles tendon, which is a big injury site for older athletes.

    With that being said, I would not have my players in-general, jumping rope without a proper warm-up, as I haven't trained a player in the last 20 years who didn't have lower back issues, as it is inherent in competitive high level tennis, and jumping rope exacerbates the problem. Remember, I did state that I do not ask my players to do so, especially male players, but that three of the female players who I worked with, already did so. Injuries cost time, money, and ranking points. Be mindful that professional players usually have their own routines--that's how they got there--and female tennis players tend to be more resistant to change than male pros, and no, I don't know why, I have just experienced that they are, so if they jump rope without a problem, then there is no reason to fix what isn't broken.

    Lastly, if you are not a serious player, you certainly do not want to get injured playing tennis, just so that your real world affairs are affected negatively.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2010
  17. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Oh okay, so it is your opinion. Then I would disagree with you too.

    Light jump rope can be used as a warm-up. If a player warms up well, I don't see an issue with light jump roping at all.

    Well, I am 50 and still jump rope to warm-up. Geeez, we could say that for just playing tennis which can hammer the achilles and calf area. What running sport isn't?

    I can see what you are saying, but we really aren't talking about jump rope training. That is a whole different story. We are just talking about getting a jump rope out of your bag and skipping a little to warm-up. A player does not have to make it a high impact in order warm-up with a jump rope.

    Ranking points? All I am saying is that warming up with a jump rope is not as bad as you are making it. I like that you aree concerned for your players and that is fine, but to say it is bad when you really have no evidence to support it except for what you perceive, well, I guess it will be a matter of preference.

    Man, really now. Why would anyone want to get injured? Isn't exercise and the things we do, helping us prevent injury? If I got my jump rope out and did some like jump roping for THREE MINUTES, is this really something to blow out of porportion?
     
  18. Topaz

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    Yes, most of us realize training and warm-up are different, but the idea that jump roping can not be used as part of an effective warm up is just wrong IMO.

    And age should not be the determining factor in what a person can or can not do...there are plenty of players on this forum who are over 35 and in much better shape than the 20-somethings. (Chess springs instantly to mind, as does Moz)

    As far as 'slow' jumping...couldn't it just be the difference between double skips and single skips, and/or just jumping lighter and lower?

    I don't mean to pick on you so specifically...you've certainly offered a lot of great advice in this thread. Cindy may be over 35, but she's in excellent shape. However, I do know that she's posted about PF problems as well as knee problems, so jump roping may not be the best choice for her, but that doesn't mean others couldn't implement it quite effectively. (Cindy, any knee updates?!?)

    Personally, in my own experience (female, and turning 35 on Tuesday!), I've been told (by a soft tissue sports specialist) that my lower back problems are a result of tight hamstrings (quite common in females, who are usually much more quad dominant). Working with my pro, we've found some areas in the technique of my strokes that could be contributing to that as well. I jump rope regularly, though, and never, ever feel pain in my back while jumping. I'm curious as to why you think jump roping exacerbates lower back pain?

    Like you said, if it isn't broken, don't fix it! But I don't think 'older' (and I use that term loosely here!) players should shy away from something like jump roping if they don't have any condition that would prohibit the exercise...which is so basic, cheap, and generally a great exercise! But I also agree that, as we get older, we need to take care and not 'over do' (which many of us are prone to do)...because injuries are never any fun!
     
  19. ProfoundBasic

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    TheLama,
    In '60's and '70's, there is no 'split-step' term!
    What did we call 'the move (step)' back then?

    Cindy,
    Perhaps, you have learned the incorrect step of 'split-step'.
    What is the exact movements of the 'spite-step'? Had Jack Groppel or anyone defined it well?

    I have seen many players tired of thinking about a split step. To these players, I told them to forget about 'split-step' and just practice on 'ready, set, go'; you will find the 'feel' of the 'set' movements on your feet. When you can do the 'set' well, in tennis playing or dancing or any sports, you dont need to think about 'split-step' at all.
     
  20. TheLama

    TheLama Banned

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    I always remember split-step, and I never had to be taught to do so. I played at a very competitive level as soon as I got serious in competing at 12-years old, and the term was only mentioned to me in the context of timing, once I started working Serve/Volley and Chip-n-Charge.
     
  21. TheLama

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    Lower back issues which are not structural usually comes from the ground up, as yours does. With tennis players, calves and hammies are usually the problem area, and jumping rope tightens the calves.

    If Cindy has knee issues, then she should also be cautious as she trains footwork, because older players--as defined by when you lose your ability to fully recover after an average match for the following round--are susceptible to bursar issues and ACL tears.
     
  22. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    TheLama is 100% correct.

    Jump rope for warm up? On what planet? I have seen even young boxers go through a warm up first, THEN jump rope. Just because some posters do it and don't see negative effects right away does not mean its good for them.

    Anyway, you are not only correct but have the same opinion on jumping rope as they do at IMG, Macci's, Evert's, and Sanchez-Casal.

    At those places jumping rope is used for various purposes....AFTER a player is totally warmed up using other means. If a poster wants to jump rope for their own personal warmup, oh well. But advising others when the experts don't is irresponsible.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2010
  23. TheLama

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    Whatever works for you. At 50-years old, you should know what works, what breaks down, and what is already broken. As I specifically stated, if it isn't broken....

    But when I work with players, I only bring them to sit on the top of the precipice at very select events. Otherwise, the old, "better safe than sorry", is the rule that I follow, as junior's college admission and/or athletic scholarships are too life altering; collegiate tennis and its relationship to further careers are too important; and pro careers are just too short for me to be gambling with. My job is to help them win with the best that they can bring to the court, not what we are willing to gamble with at the table.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2010
  24. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    With you 100%. Keep up the solid advice. This forum has enough of the bad advice for sure.
     
  25. TheLama

    TheLama Banned

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    I adopted my coaching opinion about jumping rope for three reasons:

    Firstly, I personally developed shin-splints as a player, and lost a major sponsor who did not understand that being afflicted due to jumping rope was common. Secondly, my lower back tightened up as a result of using this training method on hardcourt, and so did any of my players who did so, including the three female players--but they all refused to stop because the benefits outweighed the side-effects in their opinion. Thirdly, I use to box with Golden Glovers, and practiced Chinese martial arts to cross train, and none of their managers nor my master would let anyone jump rope until after being properly warmed up.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2010
  26. Topaz

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    And sometimes there is more than one 'right' advice, as well.
     
  27. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    No jumping rope for me, sorry.

    I don't know what it is, but I just can't do it. I feel a lot of strain, and I get a headache. Didn't have the problem as a kid, but that sort of bouncing bothers me. It also annoys me, like fingernails on a blackboard.

    Weird, I know, but there you go.
     
  28. TheLama

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    Then you should absolutely not do it.

    Running in place would also be just as bad, but alternating left and right, as most players do while waiting for their opponent to strike the ball, should hopefully be OK.
     
  29. rxs10is

    rxs10is New User

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    Good advice, Lama. For some reason, skipping rope doesn't bother me, even thought I am 6'4" and heavily muscled. My friend, who is much smaller and lighter at under 6' never skips rope because it hurts his knees... but damn, he covers the court pretty good! He sprints to warm up... go figure. :confused: I would have thought sprinting would be much harder on the knees than skipping rope.
     
  30. Swissv2

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    Not being able to do a split-step consistently is hard because its not a habit yet. Let us know how you do over time.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2010
  31. larry10s

    larry10s Hall of Fame

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    you should already have split step by then:confused:
     
  32. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    I'd never sprint to warm up regardless of the situation with my knees. That would be like warming up your car by burning rubber out of your driveway. :)

    For whatever reason, straight-ahead running doesn't bother my knees and never has. Jumping, side-stepping, cross-overs -- all of that other stuff in tennis -- does mother me. And for some reason, playing on clay is making me unhappy too. I think the unexpected twisting and suchlike (e.g. stopping on one of the lines) causes extra strain or something.
     
  33. TheLama

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    You need to get them checked out. Again, my experience is more with male players, but many of my female players have had similar complaints, and are under 20-years old, but play and train for hours per day and travel constantly to compete.

    If you're fortunate, just some quad and hamstring work may do the trick and take away your pain. If you have loose ligaments, which is very possible at your age--don't stress as I am older than you--you must do these weight training exercises to tighten things-up, just to stabilize the joint, because there is nothing that you can do to tighten-up your ligaments, short of surgery. Also, make sure that they check for muscle imbalances, such as extra tight hamstrings or IT band.
     
  34. Topaz

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    ^^^Women's anatomical differences in the hip girdle make us more susceptible to knee injuries...could be why you see that so much more with your female athletes.

    Cindy, do you have/use a foam roller?
     
  35. TheLama

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    Correct and good idea regarding the roller! But that shouldn't exclude you getting your knees checked-out. OK?
     
  36. Topaz

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    ^^^you mean, Cindy, right? My knees are ok (*knockonwood*).

    That's why I asked her earlier...she had a post about her knees (she has had them looked at), and I was wondering if there was an update. I think she was considering surgery for torn meniscus, but I'm not sure if I'm remembering correctly.

    The foam roller has been a god-send for me. We should probably ALL be using one!
     
  37. Spinz

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  38. TheLama

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    If she has a torn meniscus, and loves tennis as much as she apparently does, then she needs to get the operation, work on rehabing the joint, and then go on a weight training program so that it never happens again. Lastly, if the problem is due to not being in the best of shape, then diet and nutrition need to be looked at as well.
     
  39. Topaz

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    ^^^Cindy's in great shape (I've had the pleasure of meeting her in person)...and I think she was also debating the 'when' as well as the 'if' of the surgery.

    I grew up watching my dad go through many, many knee problems and surgeries...learned my lesson at a young age! He ended up having to give up things like skiing and running all together, but then became a kick-azz cyclist!
     
  40. TheLama

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    Then she will recover very quickly. Its too bad having a meniscus problem, it is quite painful. I've always had big legs, so my knees were never an issue.

    Cycling is great for knees. Great for your dad!
     
  41. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Yeah, I have chronic knee problems. It's always something. This time around, I have been checked out and they don't know what is wrong. I think it is a meniscus. I'm planning on getting the surgery at the end of the spring season.

    Doc's advice was play as long as you want until it hurts too much; come back for surgery when you're ready.

    Thanks for the kind words, Topaz. I don't know about "great shape." I seem to be in perpetual decline. :(
     
  42. Swissv2

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    Miss-worded that. I meant when opponent makes contact with the ball, one should split step.
     
  43. crystal_clear

    crystal_clear Professional

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    Well said~

    Whoever has knee problems should try to improve quad and hamstring strength to stabilize the joint.

    What is IT band?
     
  44. Topaz

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    IT band is the iliotibial band, a band of fibrous tissues which run from your hip joint to your knee along the outer thigh. It is commonly a site of inflammation (and knots), which results in pain felt on the outside of the knee. Another tell-tale sign of IT problems are if you feel the pain when you go *down* stairs. It is a common issue for runners. Stretches, orthotics, different shoes, and using a foam roller can correct and alleviate the problem, though I've known runners who've had to go under the knife to have it 'released'.

    I've had issues with it when training for longer road races, and it will pop up from time to time during tennis, but only when I'm also running. I started using a foam roller last fall, and have had no further problems (though I haven't been running either).

    Lots more info about ITB syndrome and foam rolling can be found through google.
     
  45. TheLama

    TheLama Banned

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    The younger and healthier you are, the better the time it is to get surgery. Winter is also better because you play less, and when you do, injuries are magnified due to the cold. You are usually also less active, which is good, because active people tend to be impatient, which impairs recovery.
     
  46. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Well . . . I don't know about the whole winter thing. I don't play less in winter. I'll be on 3-4 teams this winter, but only 1-2 in the spring/summer. Also, I think rehab is tougher because it is flippin' cold outside in the winter.

    And let's hope I'll be just as young and healthy in five months as I am now. If not, my knee will likely be the least of my concerns. :)

    Anyway, I decided to wait until spring, and there's no turning back now . . .
     
  47. crystal_clear

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    Thanks Topaz for the detailed info.
     
  48. crystal_clear

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    Thank Lama for the explanation. I think I do recover slow.
     
  49. crystal_clear

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    Actually I can "slow" jump rope by alternating right and left foot touching the ground like running on the same spot.
     
  50. crystal_clear

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    I have a question. How can playing tennis (which posture) hurt the low back? What exercise can prevent the injury?
     

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