To Quit Tennis?

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by AngeloDS, Nov 7, 2005.

  1. AngeloDS

    AngeloDS Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2005
    Messages:
    1,676
    So, I got the chance to hit with my varsity coach the other day from High School. I was excited, I wanted to show him how much I have improved since we last met. I felt good.

    During the match I felt like Roddick vs Federer. I don't know if it's a mental thing, or a physical thing but I didn't feel any pressure mentally. But my game naturally, did not even come close to his. He was on another planet.

    It feels after months and months of a lot of practice and training has come down to nothing. It feels like I haven't improved against him. He was my goal to beat, if I could beat him I could go to the next level. But, I didn't even come close even after working so hard. Not even close.

    I'm completely destroyed, and so is my fighting spirit. Not sure if I should continue, or just quit.
     
    #1
  2. Exile

    Exile Professional

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2005
    Messages:
    1,049
    Continue, you came this far, keep going.

    Work on a mental game, more strategy, more consistancy, more power, w/e you think you needed.
     
    #2
  3. Happyneige

    Happyneige New User

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2005
    Messages:
    78
    Don't get discouraged. As much as I hate being defeated, I learn so much more when I lose than when I win. Be analytical and figure out what went wrong with your game. Take this as an opportunity to improve your game. You can do it!
     
    #3
  4. goober

    goober Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2004
    Messages:
    8,491
    First of all, how good is your coach? If he is like a 5.0-5.5 and you are a 4.0, you may have improved significantly lets say to a 4.5 and he would still cream you. Your coach may know your game inside and out and know how to beat you if he sees you playing everyday.

    I wouldn't quit tennis becuase you can't beat him. Why are you even playing tennis? I play for fun and for some exercise. Competition is also great. I have a nemesis that I have never beaten. I won't stop playing though even if I never beat him.
     
    #4
  5. SageOfDeath

    SageOfDeath Guest

    I feel that way too sometimes when I've improved so much but very little of it shines through matches. Keep in mind he was your coach, he probably knows your strategy, weaknesses, strengths, that might still be the same.

    Keep improving and don't get discouraged.
     
    #5
  6. dmastous

    dmastous Professional

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2005
    Messages:
    1,132
    This isn't as uncommon as you may think. It might be a mental hump that you need to get over. Maybe there is small voice in your mind that you will never be able to play good against your former coach. Even if you pass him in ability, you may remain intimidated.
    Or maybe your former coach has imporved along with you.
    I remember a time when I thought I could hit the ball pretty good with a friend of mine, and a guy I used to know who had always been better than me started hitting on the next court over. Gradually I felt more and more unworthy. As I watch he and his partner whacking groundies back and forth, my game just withered and eventually I felt hopless.
    Was it a case of me thinking I wasn't up to their level of play? Was I intimidated? Maybe all of the above. It just happens that way sometimes.
    What do you think Layton Hewitt thought after getting beat so badly in the US Open final a couple years ago?
     
    #6
  7. nViATi

    nViATi Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    2,223
    No offense but this seems like one of those "emo xanga posts".

    We can't decide for you if you want to play tennis again or not. It's your choice. If you hate it, we can't make you love it again. If you love it, we can't make you hate it. Just relax for a day and think about it. Think about all the experiences you've had playing tennis. Did you enjoy it or not?
     
    #7
  8. cervelo

    cervelo Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2004
    Messages:
    353
    First, for a little perspective, Agassi has LOST twice as many tough matches than you and I have EVER PLAYED!!!! (and I'm Agassi's age!!!)

    Q1: do you like/love tennis? If yes, then you're hooked for life, resistance is futile.

    #1: Your game is your's ... no player, no result or experience will ever change the fact that you are unique and so is your game. Sometimes, it leaves you short on the scoreboard, but experiencing a loss should always make you better. Look at it as an opportunity to learn about what strokes work for you, what worked against you, what you like to do and why your opponent wouldn't let you do it ...

    Quite frankly, my losses have taught me more about my tennis and about strategy in general than any of my wins.

    Q2: why did you lose?

    #2 Understanding a loss is critical to the learning process ...

    Ask yourself: who did what against whom and what was the result? For example, he attacked my BH with slice and I couldn't handle the low balls ... he served with a high percentage of 1st serves to keep me behind the baseline for a weaker return. ALWAYS, ALWAYS ANALYZE THE MATCH UP!!! NO NEGATIVE FEELINGS PLAY INTO THIS!!! YOU MUST BE AN ACTIVE THINKER AND STRATEGIST AND THERE'S NO TIME TO WASTE WORRYING WHETHER YOU'RE "A GOOD PLAYER."

    It's not a battle or a war, it's tennis; and you're out there ... playing!!!! There's no shame in losing a match ... in this case, you will never know what your coach is thinking about your game anyway! Heck, he could lie either way.

    You have no choice but to show up with your game and just play!!

    No pressure, no expectations or opinions. Hit your shots, analyze the strategy and accept the result- and learn from it, either way.

    What else would you rather be doing???
     
    #8
  9. AngeloDS

    AngeloDS Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2005
    Messages:
    1,676
    I play tennis for competition and I take it pretty seriously. But, not being able to come close to matching my varsity coach after several months of working on my game and my body. It seemed like I didn't even improve a little bit.

    Is there that much of a difference between going from each level playing a higher level person? A 3.0 player sucks against a 5.5 player, but a 4.0 player should atleast match up with a 5.5 and not get completely demolished. And a 4.5 player should atleast match up better. Is there that much of a gap?

    I feel like Roddick vs Federer. My goal to transfer in Division I and play for the tennis team seems impossible now. If I can't come close to my varsity coach who is 50+, and a 5.5 player. If I can't beat him, it's obvious I can't beat or match anyone else.

    I don't think it's a mental hump. I went into it feeling great, like I could match up to him or beat him. I did not hesitate at all on my shots when I had the chance to hit a good shot, and same for my serves. I didn't hesitate or give a second thought to it. I need to get better, but in the time alotted it seems impossible.
     
    #9
  10. Noelle

    Noelle Hall Of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2004
    Messages:
    1,771
    Angelo, it seems obvious that right now you have a very negative attitude towards your game. Until you get over this, you'll never be able to play your best at all. Now, that best might not be able to beat your coach now, but you just have to find ways to beat your coach. Roddick has been trying to do this all this year because Federer's better play is forcing him to try to find ways of beating him. (Granted it's been a little two-steps-forward-one-step-back in Andy's case, but that's not the topic we have here.)

    Winners never quit. Quitters never win.
     
    #10
  11. cervelo

    cervelo Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2004
    Messages:
    353

    I'm probably a 5.0 (but unrated) and I just played a solid 4.0, beat him 6-1, 6-1!!! So yes, there's a huge difference!!!! Your 5.5 coach could bagel me!!!!

    Seriously, forget the score, forget your ego, and forget your desire to impress your coach!!! If he's truly a 5.5, believe me, he knows the game enough that he saw your improvement!!!

    As a 4.0, you MUST begin to understand the fact that any matchup is critical and you MUST figure out ways to impose your strengths against any other player's weaknesses. Developing a BOMB serve is worth nothing if you consistently place it in your opponent's wheelhouse, right?

    Also, understand THE MATCHUP!!! What strokes work for you, which ones don't???? What exchanges occurred that frustrated you? I bet there's a pattern!!!

    Finally, the set score means nothing!!!! My 4.0 opponent who I mentioned earlier ... he had some looks at certain times but failed to execute fully- I was able to attack with my FH and get looks at his shots and turn them around on him when it counted. So, the set score was a runaway but I'm not convinced that the overall play was so obviously one-sided. Had my opponenet been able to attack my BH with penetrating and low slice, the result may have been very different.

    So.... Don't get so caught up in set scores ... a 6-2 set is only a loss by 2 breaks, possibly only 4 TOTAL points against serve !!!! so it could be that not much separates you from your opponent after all, just that he won the right several points at the right time ...
     
    #11
  12. Marius_Hancu

    Marius_Hancu G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2004
    Messages:
    17,850
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    #12
  13. AndrewD

    AndrewD Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2004
    Messages:
    6,581
    Why don't you just ask your ex-coach what he thinks about your rate of improvement and goals? Surely he'd be in a better position to comment than anyone else.
     
    #13
  14. theace21

    theace21 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    Messages:
    3,263
    Maybe he knows your game better than you do. He probably found a couple of areas that you need improvement on and took advantage.

    Ask him what you need to work on.
     
    #14
  15. Geezer Guy

    Geezer Guy Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2005
    Messages:
    2,792
    Location:
    Big Canoe, GA
    Angelo, I think you're expecting too much of yourself - of ANYONE for that matter. You can't just pick up the game, practice HARD for a couple of months, and then expect to beat someone that's been playing (COACHING!) for years. Really, consider the odds that a young guy new to the sport can beat someone who actually TEACHES other people how to play. That only happens in Saturday morning movies.

    Seriously, you will need to work LONG and HARD for YEARS to develop your skills to complete against and beat a top player. Don't let that discourage you though. Tennis is a great sport that you can play all your life. There are few other sports like that. Keep practicing and playing. Keep striving to be your best. And, somewhere along the way, try to be realistic.

    Also, for me anyway, the physical side of tennis comes around faster than the mental side. You may develop a pretty good forehand, but you've got to know when to go for it, where to place it, etc. This takes a LOT of match play, as well as reading (or somehow learning) about playing tactics, dealing with pressure, etc. All of this can take a long time to develop. I don't want to discourage you - I just want you to have realistic expectations.

    You may also want to think about having more performance based goals than results based goals. From reading your posts, you seem very results oriented. If you don't get the results you want (beating your coach, for example) it can be pretty disheartening.
     
    #15
  16. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    11,885
    Sounds like you practiced the wrong things maybe? Sounds like you set unrealistic goals maybe? Sounds like you didnt really execute a game plan? Or it sounds like you still have a long way to go. Tennis is a process, a journey.
     
    #16
  17. Tim Tennis

    Tim Tennis Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2004
    Messages:
    1,073
    Location:
    Charleston, TN
    AngeloDS you are just posting to be posting as indicated by your statement, "But my game naturally, did not even come close to his." You knew he was going to crush you so what is this boo hoo stuff, "I'm completely destroyed, and so is my fighting spirit. Not sure if I should continue, or just quit." Give me a break, you are not going to quit because some guy 3 (male levels) above yours beats you. You would be lucky to get a few points. If you want a bunch of simpathy and poor baby stuff you need to go join some women's support group forums. Tough love baby, get out there and play.
     
    #17
  18. JeffH1

    JeffH1 New User

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Messages:
    63
    Your not having enough fun

    It's disturbing to me to see kids/teens having the fun drilled OUT of them by parents/coaches. Maybe you've forgotten how to have fun.

    My martial arts teacher could beat me blind folded. He would not let me hit him, but he could see every improvement in me. Me beating him was not the point. He would see improvements in technique, footwork, balance, etc. Your coach was prob looking for the same. Beating him was not the point to your encounter!

    Forget the coach! How do you stand up against the other talent on your team? Oranges for Oranges, if you get my drift.

    We all make choices. It's my gut feeling that if you quit tennis, you'll regret it later, but it's not my call...it's yours.
     
    #18
  19. ATXtennisaddict

    ATXtennisaddict Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 3, 2005
    Messages:
    4,278
    angelo, I know how you feel dude.

    I've been on a losing streak lately. I even lost to this really old dude who couldn't run last weekend. I gave up tennis for the rest of the year. Take a rest. hopefully come back hungry.
     
    #19
  20. dannyjjang

    dannyjjang Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Messages:
    646
    ey how old is your coach?? Angleo and mayb its the STRING cuse i hate TNT! (it dies to fast, mayb thats the reason?) you son of a locksmith!
     
    #20
  21. raftermania

    raftermania Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2004
    Messages:
    2,626
    Location:
    Ontario
    Gosh, I've been training for 20 years to beat Roger Federer, and when my moment finally came I got smoked! Gosh, I hate tennis, I'm going to quit. wahhhhh, i can't play tennis if I'm not the best boohoo

    Just joking with you angelo. Basing your motivation on results is a dangerous ballgame. Instead of having one broad goal of defeating your coach, make many smaller, progressive goals, i.e. get my first serve percentage to 80%. Don't take this loss as a total failure, he is your coach afterall, do you think he would want one of his players schooling him?

    Forget about your ideal levels of accomplishment, you can still play competitive ball and have a blast at the same time.

    "Winners never quit. Quitters never win." haha Noelle is a genius.
     
    #21
  22. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    11,885
    LOL! LOVE IT! "Tough love baby, get out there and play".

    That reminded me of a day out surfing at Log Cabins North Shore Hawaii. Waves were huge and looking to just eat something. A friend of mine fresh from Florida was freaking out and hyper ventilating. "Oh my god, they are too big, oh my god, I am freaking out, etc, etc, etc. He was a basket case.

    We were scared as well but there has to be a time when you say "screw it, I am going for it". My friend paddles over and hits him upside the head and says "would you shut up and take off on one". lol

    Tough love, baby.
     
    #22
  23. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2004
    Messages:
    4,885
    Hang in there kid. Almost all of us oldtimers have a tennis horror story or two that could have lead to a exit (quitting) the game long ago. But we're still here. Heck I just lost a big doubles match Sunday after having match point in the 3rd set tiebreak, losing it and then double faulting match point down. It's a situation that rarely happens but next time I'll do what I can to make sure the same situation does not occur. e.g. I should have been at net on matchpoint after my return instead of slugging from the baseline and isolating my partner at net. Then when I was serving match point down I should not have gone for such a big first serve. I'll live to play another day, for the better.

    Look at it each match and practice for the positives and constructively use what happened on the court to plan for your next outing. Tennis takes a long time to develop and progress. During some of those periods actually seeing your own progress may be difficult to quantify. A good coach or team mate can sometimes help. Did you ask your coach for constuctive feedback after playing him? If he's any good he'll have good things to say and hopefully also give you the reality of what you need to work on in a positive manner. Remain positive.
     
    #23
  24. Xevoius

    Xevoius Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2004
    Messages:
    527
    I have a hitting partner that plays in the same division as I do. He blows me off the court if I try and go toe to toe with him from the baseline and since serve and volley is his actual play style, I feel like I am totally trumped every time we play a match - the last time we played he bageled me.

    This was after he took a bunch of time off!!!

    Anyways, since I have been able to routinely take the beating month after month, I think I have found a chink in his armor. It took me months to finally come up with some type of plan to start evening out the percentages of points won. It also took some physical conditioning as I needed to find some way to stay in the points longer.

    As a result, I feel I am close to getting my first "practice set" win on him and if it takes another couple of years to get it, so be it. The extra work I have put into beating the guy will pay off in my better physical health, strength and more wins on everyone else.

    Good luck with your nemesis and find a smaller fish to routinely hand a beating to so that you can work to get your confidence back.
     
    #24
  25. Marius_Hancu

    Marius_Hancu G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2004
    Messages:
    17,850
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    Yes, there's only one player in the world who doesn't have this problem right now: Roger Federer.
     
    #25
  26. shindemac

    shindemac Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2005
    Messages:
    2,289
    No way you should quit. You should definitely learn from your losses and see what areas you need to improve. It's very unrealistic to expect to beat someone 3 levels higher than you, let alone someone even one level higher than you. Yes, the differences in levels are that huge, and most players underestimate this. Otherwise anyone could improve from 4.0 to 5.5 in one summer and play in Div I tennis. I don't want to discourage you, but I hope you'll be more realistic and realize it takes a LOT more work to even go up one level.

    You should be setting smaller and short term goals along with your long term goal (play in div I tennis). Maybe beat the next person better than you on the team, and then the next, etc. Increase your first serve percentage, accuracy, etc. Maybe play in USTA league tennis and move up to the next rating, 4.5. Also, never think you're the top dog. Instead be hungry and always strive to improve.
     
    #26
  27. stc9357

    stc9357 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2005
    Messages:
    406
    Stop acting like a baby and get on the court if you keep having a neg. attitude you won't get better. If I coninually felt sorry for myself then I would suck you take your lumps and keep moving. You have to have the attitude that you can do this. Go whoop his ***.
     
    #27
  28. FiveO

    FiveO Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2005
    Messages:
    3,260
    "What? Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!..........And it ain't over now. 'Cause when the going gets tough . . . the tough get going. Who's with me? Let's Go! Come on! AAAAEEEEEGGGHHHH!!"

    -John "Bluto" Blutarsky


    Nah. Don't quit. Look at it this way, it hurts like hell because you care enough about it. That's a good thing to a point. Putting too much into the outcome of any one match is probably the wrong approach. Everyone does it, but it is still the wrong approach. Think back to Roddick's loss to a sub-par Federer in Cincy this summer. Andy was coming off one of his best wins this year, dominating Hewitt in the semis. He was playing great. Then Fed slapped him back into the rank and file. I think Roddick went into a tailspin for a month or more in the aftermath of that match. It happens. Don't quit over it. Take some time, maybe a couple days, to reflect and learn from the experience, then come back with fresh batteries. What doesn't kill us, makes us stronger.
     
    #28
  29. AngeloDS

    AngeloDS Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2005
    Messages:
    1,676
    I'm going to stop tennis for awhile, atleast 2 weeks to let my body get to 100% and my mind to 100%. I think my body is burning out from tennis and training, but my mind hasn't.

    I know I'm lacking in experience, because I've been drilling and training so hard but haven't had much match experience (in higher levels).

    I'm going to sign up in th USTA and do tournaments to get more experience in higher levels of play.
     
    #29
  30. x Southpaw x

    x Southpaw x Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2005
    Messages:
    753
    Location:
    UMaryland-CP
    You a college tennis player Angelo? It says so in your sig. You know I'm dieing to be in your position. Instead of being able to have 3 hours of solid tennis practice everyday, I'm stuck with ****ing schoolwork and essays. One day I hope to enter my college varsity team... just like you one day hope to beat your coach. I think it'll happen.
     
    #30
  31. goober

    goober Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2004
    Messages:
    8,491
    I like this one:


    Trautman: You did everything to make this private war happen. You've done enough damage. This mission is over, Rambo. Do you understand me? This mission is over! Look at them out there! Look at them! If you won't end this now, they will kill you. Is that what you want? It's over Johnny. It's over!

    Rambo: Nothing is over!!! Nothing!!! You just don't turn it off! You asked me I didn't ask you! And I did what I had to do to win...
     
    #31
  32. ironchef21

    ironchef21 Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    126
    I'd ask myself the fundamental question: Do I enjoy tennis? If yes, don't quit. If it makes you miserable, then stop.

    Let's face it, if you play tennis or any other sport you're going to lose your share of matches. Your game will stagnate from time to time or you'll face mental blocks. In my opinion if you are passionate enough for a particular sport that should overcome any "setbacks" you'll face along the road. But only you know that.

    You probably just need a temporary break. You should probably stop and reassess where you are and what your goals are and how you can improve. Then come back refreshed and ready to go.
     
    #32
  33. hipster

    hipster New User

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2005
    Messages:
    74
    I'd find someone that sucks and beat up on them. If you keep playing against people that you can't beat, of course your confidence is going to hit the bottom.
     
    #33
  34. cervelo

    cervelo Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2004
    Messages:
    353
    You know what else occurred to me, where you likely failed to improve and I'm sure your coach noticed ... MENTALLY!!!

    Your game plan wasn't working and you failed to analyze and got noticeably frustrated. Maybe your level isn't such that you have a PLAN B or C, but by imploding, you stopped evaluating shots and match-ups. This is, by itself, is a way to fail and (sorta) stop trying.

    An improving player eventually comes to grips with the risk of losing and never stops strategizing. You'll live to play tennis again and again and again. So in that respect, you never really lose at tennis, but at each outing, you can run out of time before figuring out a way to start winning.
     
    #34
  35. dannyjjang

    dannyjjang Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Messages:
    646
    play table tennis
     
    #35
  36. goober

    goober Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2004
    Messages:
    8,491
    wrong thread... oops
     
    #36
  37. Kaptain Karl

    Kaptain Karl Hall Of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2004
    Messages:
    5,236
    Location:
    The High Country of Colorado
    KK reveals a Coach's secret.​

    AngeloDS - You've gotten really good advice. I'm going to post from "the other POV." That of the Coach's.

    My best HS player from two years ago "ought to be" rated at least a 4.5. I post "ought to" because his head is still holding him back.

    He has played practice sets against me the last three years ... and won more than half of them. But every time we've played a Ladder Match (On our Town's Ladder.) I have won.

    It drives him nuts.

    He believes he should beat me. (He is 19; I am 49. His belief is colored by the confidence of Youth, IMO.) He simply hasn't done so ... yet.

    Last summer we met in a tourney. He was playing well -- and both my calves were cramping. I won in a 2nd set Tie-breaker. (He never knew I was hurting. Either I managed to "disguise" my limping ... or when you're limping off both legs it looks normal.)

    As his former Coach, I really look forward to the day he "breaks through" and beats me. (Honestly!) But -- as his former Coach -- he's going to have to earn it. If I don't play my best, I would insult him. When he wins I want it to be because he won; not because I gave it to him.

    Your Coach will not insult you by "taking it easy on you." You wouldn't enjoy the special sweet taste of victory, if you thought he'd eased up.

    Keep trying. In a few years you may take him. Only then will you realize the only person whose pride rivals yours on that day ... will be his.

    - KK
     
    #37
  38. Camilio Pascual

    Camilio Pascual Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    1,825
    First of all, everybody here is giving you really good advice.

    From what you say above and what is in most of your other posts, I think you are putting WAY too much importance on your results against one, single player. You are making generalized "catastrophic" predictions ("I can't beat or match anyone else"), from a single case and it will not help you perform your best.
    How have you been doing against other players? Have you lost to somebody and then beaten them in a rematch?
    You are on the right track to sign up and play some tournaments. Good luck.
     
    #38
  39. markp

    markp New User

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2005
    Messages:
    13
    as an 18 #1 junior from venezuela a 50+ pancho segura kicked my butt on the court and then told my dad the "plan" he saw for me was to win the nc2as in 2 years. go figure. two points: don't sweat it, and you'll rarely beat your coach.
     
    #39
  40. akj27

    akj27 Banned

    Joined:
    May 22, 2005
    Messages:
    940
    hes not really a college player
     
    #40
  41. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    11,885
    That is excellent advice. Great post KK.
     
    #41
  42. joe1987

    joe1987 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2005
    Messages:
    630
    Location:
    Scotland
    After reading marius link I just realised I'm a 5.0, always thought I was a 4.5..
     
    #42
  43. rommil

    rommil Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2004
    Messages:
    7,770
    Location:
    CT
    If you ask me, I'd only quit if I lose my arms and legs.
     
    #43

Share This Page