Today's match...

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by Topaz, Jun 23, 2012.

  1. Topaz

    Topaz Legend

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    Should have included a Topaz/Cindy showdown, but evidently nobody from either one of our teams decided to show up!

    Cindy, this post is dedicated to you. Only against one of your teams would so much drama occur!!!

    We went into the match defaulting dubs 3.

    You guys defaulted singles 1 when your player never showed.

    We won singles 2...you guys played a somewhat pregnant and miserable gal...she did NOT look happy to be there. And I was mentally reviewing my OB rotation...just in case she went into labor. (side note...as a captain, I would default a court before putting someone out there who is pregnant in the heat we had today).

    We actually had a match at dubs 1...we lost by one game. To your teammate's credit, they did no stalling. However YOUR CAPTAIN called time early! As in, before the buzzer even went off. Eh hem. I'm not a fan.

    Dub 2 - our team apparently decided not to come without telling us. However, I didn't see your team there either! Your captain (again, I'm not a fan), tells me after the match that they were there. Cindy, do you have invisible teammates? Because they sure as heck were NOT on the court for the 15 minute grace period. Which is where they are supposed to be! Should have been a double default, but your captain insisted we defaulted. Whateveh.

    And, again, we had already defaulted dubs 3.

    So, what should have been a Topaz vs. Cindy showdown was almost nearly a Topaz vs. Cindy's captain showdown!!!! Grrrrrrr!!!!!

    And they even watered that clay right before the match...and it was still a dust bowl.
     
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  2. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    If I understood all that correctly... only 2 lines were actually played?

    That's kinda pathetic. Why bother playing league tennis if the teams are going to combine for 3 defaults out of 5 lines. Over in my area I feel terrible on the very rare occassion where I have to default even one line, because I feel like I'm cheating someone on the other team out of a chance to play.

    And isn't there a rule somewhere that says you need to have 3 out of 5 lines play in order for a match to count? (Evidently not, but I thought I read something along those lines somewhere.)
     
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  3. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    I have no idea what happened but I'm confident this will be a record setting thread--go girls! The USTA league tennis dept should send in an elite blue ribbon panel to investigate this one.
     
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  4. MesQueUnClub

    MesQueUnClub Rookie

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    Well my understanding is that the only reason Cindy plays tennis is to have material to post on this forum. Playing is secondary, a game is defaulted every time some one sneezes and 2 games default if you break a string and 3 games if you scratch your behind. The less games to play in a set, the more fun it is. Even more fun if you don't show up for the match at all.

    I am sorry that you are too ignorant to know these rules and are too much of a killjoy to show up at matches and ruin everyone's day.:rolleyes:
     
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  5. Maui19

    Maui19 Hall of Fame

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    I can't quite parse who you are ranting at there dude.
     
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  6. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Topaz,

    Well. That was a weird ending to the season, eh?

    For those following along at home, I wasn't at this match. I had another match to play.

    First of all, I do not know whether that singles player was pregnant. There are two ladies on the team with that name, and I have only met one. I didn't know this lady.

    Regarding calling time early . . . isn't there a horn? If the match wasn't over, did you guys stop anyway?

    OrangePower, this is the DC league, which is a bit odd in many ways. The flight winner is the team that wins the most individual matches. So if even one player shows up for a team, that player should try to play and win one court while the other four go as a default.

    DC is also unusual in that players pay $75 for registration and nothing else for each match played. At the end of the season, teams that are out of playoff contention (like us) start having trouble with defaults. Hey, why show up on a hot day to play 90 minutes on the miserable dustbowl clay courts in DC when you can enjoy the air-conditioned comfort of a 2-hour match in a neighboring league.

    As far as whether the Dubs Two players were actually there to claim the default . . . who was captaining the match for you? Before I write DF on my scorecard, I need to see some warm bodies there for the other team.

    As for whether our team had two players available to play Dubs Two . . . no comment. :)
     
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  7. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    If Cindy did not play, I am not interested in this thread.
     
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  8. Roforot

    Roforot Professional

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    Was there really a pregnant lady playing? How far along was she?
    I've been watching arrested development so I'm skeptical now after the fat suit episode w/ Liz Liar...

    Anyway, I know some ladies who enjoyed hitting/rallying upto 32 weeks, but their balance/running wasn't the same so it was a cooperative hitting session... a competitive match doesn't seem to be a good idea.
     
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  9. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    IDK, maybe out of respect for one's opponents?
     
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  10. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    It is not disrespectful to choose to play elsewhere, or choose not to play at all.

    What is disrespectful is knowing you don't have enough players and not saying anything to opposing captain until lineup exchange.

    It sounds like both captains were shorthanded but decided to keep mum.
     
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  11. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Just for you, sureshs, I will tell you about the drama in the match I did play yesterday (different league, different team).

    One opponent was a lady I didn't know at all. I have to say, I found her delightful. She was one of those people who clearly loves being on a tennis court. Her happiness was infectious, and I would be pleased to get to know her better.

    OK. So we start playing, and my partner is serving a long deuce game. Partner hits a deep baseline shot. One opponent is at baseline, the nice lady is at net. The deep player has no play on the ball, so she kind of looks down at the ball as it whizzes by her near the line. She sticks a finger up.

    Trouble is, the nice lady at net was also watching and she put her palms face down. Uh oh. They clearly made two conflicting calls. Our point, right?

    I said to the nice lady, "It looks like you guys made different calls, so we should call it in, right?"

    Nice lady says, "Oh, um. My partner was closer so it's her call to make. I didn't see it clearly enough to overrule her."

    I said, "Yes, but you called the ball in and gave the appropriate gesture. You don't have to overrule, but you did make a call."

    The reply was, "Well, I'm not overruling my partner, and she called it out. So it's out."

    Ahem. There's nothing you can do in an unofficiated match, so why have a hissy fit? We just played. It was a nice match overall.

    Still, there was one call my partner made later that looked a little dodgy. I didn't feel at all obligated to disagree or make a conflicting call. But hey, she was closer . . . . :huge eye roll:
     
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  12. Topaz

    Topaz Legend

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    She was. She had a cute baby bump, and she had 'the walk'. Kudos to her for coming and showing up though.

    YES! There is a horn! Your captain called time *before* it went off. I yelled back at him that the buzzer hadn't gone off yet. But, since our opponents were up by one game, they disagreed. :-/

    Like someone else said...out of respect to your opponents.

    Well, that's a good question. I was at work from 7-12. Match was at 1:30. Went I left work I had a text from our captain, asking me to captain. I replied saying yes, but she then replied saying she got someone else to do it. That person arrived right at 1:30 because she was stuck in traffic. So when it was time to exchange, I went up to the opposing captain, said I would give him the lineup but I didn't have any paper or pen. I said I would just write it on his sheet, but he didn't want me to see what he had on there.

    So...yeah. Kinda fishy. He tore off a scrap for me to write down our lineup. I'm convinced he stole court 2 dubs. So he could win. Win what? Well, absolutely nothing!
     
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  13. Topaz

    Topaz Legend

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    Actually, no, we didn't keep mum. As soon as I found your captain (I had no clue who he was) I told him we were defaulting dubs 3. I don't know if our captain had contacted him prior or not, she usually does. We're second to last place, we have nothing to gain. We just wanted to play tennis.

    To this moment, I still have no idea what happened to our #2 team. They are two players that are not known to be unreliable. I know one was at a practice in MOCO earlier that day for TH.

    Your captain said absolutely nothing about singles 1 or dubs 2 not coming. I have no idea if they thought they were on their way or not...I was playing by then.

    EDIT: though, it seems that nobody really lets people know ahead of time anymore. Memorial day weekend I got a default at #2 singles that wasn't revealed until the lineup was exchanged. We had people driving back from vacation for that match. I thought that was particularly bush league.
     
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  14. Topaz

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    Well, yes, she was.

    I've known people who play pretty late too. But it was well into the 90s and humid out. I'm sure she could have said no, but she really didn't look like she wanted to be there at all. Our player felt badly, but it isn't her fault either.
     
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  15. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Which brings up a question. When your partner is about to hit the ball, are you supposed to look at him/her briefly to get an idea of where the ball is going to go (which is why I assume the nice lady managed to see the ball behind her), or do you strictly look forward and focus on the opponents all the time? I think the pros don't look at their partners.
     
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  16. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    I look back when I think my partner is in trouble.

    I use this info to decide whether to play two back. If I see a line call, fine. I don't look back to make line calls.

    Some pros look back a lot (Bupathi) , some rarely.
     
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  17. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    I think the better way to handle it is just exchange a sheet with names in all positions (unless captains have already disclosed defaults). Some captains are unethical and try to claim a default to which they are not entitled or shift their lineup.
     
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  18. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    I always let opposing captains know ahead of time if I know I am going to have to default a line. It's the right thing to do, plus in my area all the captains know each other and tend to captain teams every year, and what goes around comes around...

    Also, if I have a dubs player unexpectedly no-show, I will give the opposing captain the option of either taking the dubs default, or else I will offer to move one of my singles players to dubs in the place of the missing player, and default a singles line instead. That way only one of the other team's players gets to sit out rather than two (and everyone on my team gets to play).

    Maybe bad captaining in the sense of pure competition, but my guys show up to play, and so do the opponents.
     
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  19. Topaz

    Topaz Legend

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    I co-captain in DC, and we have let people shuffle to let people play, and have also had people let us do the same. Because yes, at the end of the day, we are all there to play!
     
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  20. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    I will almost always tell opposing captain if I don't have enough players (hardly ever happens).

    The exception is if I suspect the other captain may not have enough players. I base this assessment on the size of their roster and whether there are difficult circumstances that make it likely they will default a line also.

    I remember one match where we knew we only had six players. This was because the match fell in the middle of spring break for public schools. I could have told opposing captain this, but I didn't know/trust her (and both teams were in playoff contention). As it turns out, they only had six players also but tried to pretend they had eight.

    I can tell you there is no way I would ever take a default if I knew it really should be a double-default.
     
    #20
  21. Roforot

    Roforot Professional

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    How many teams do you all join. I think 3 defaults should generate a warning to the captains. Here in texas I've heard of teams getting in trouble if they have 2 defaults twice in a season. I remember getting one such default when only one player showed up for dubs. He was frustrated and worried because they'd done this before.

    Our season though doesn't schedule matches on spring break or mothers day. I think my team has had one or two total defaults each season which really are unfortunate accidents or illness the day of the match.
     
    #21
  22. goober

    goober Legend

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    There are many legitimate reasons for a player not to play a league match. Being out of playoff contention or it is hot day is not one of them.
    I would have a serious problem with a player who pulled that kind of BS. If someone told me " I am not playing because I would rather sit in an airconditioned room or we are out of playoffs so I won't bother" that would be their last season on the team. Thankfully I have never had such a player. Generally people who sign up for league tennis actually want to play and I have the opposite problem of getting enough matches for everybody.
     
    #22
  23. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Players can decline to play a match for any reason. If there is an issue with a possible default, I would hope my players would go the extra mile to play. If a player tells me they are not available, I leave it at that. I won't know their reasons unless they volunteer.

    On Saturday, both of my teams were out of playoff contention. I could have played the DC match or the MD match. I chose to play the MD match. Why?

    1. DC is hot, dusty and just 90 minutes.

    2. MD is inside, AC, and two hours.

    Remember, this is not me deciding to no-show or leaving a captain hanging. This is me deciding where I want to play given that I cannot be two places at once. I most definitely will consider convenience in deciding which team gets me.
     
    #23
  24. tennis_ocd

    tennis_ocd Hall of Fame

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    Pros don't have the ability to watch their partner, the ball, where in lands on the opposite baseline, the positioning of both opponents, and both their hand gestures at moment of ball impact. Only us rec players can do all that.

    Lately I've given up turning back and now strive to read my partner's return based on my opponent's reactions.
     
    #24
  25. spiderman123

    spiderman123 Professional

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    Bryans do.

    What does Art of playing doubles say? Does the code say anything about it?
     
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  26. spiderman123

    spiderman123 Professional

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    Men's version:
    Today we played a match where one of our opponent's thought that our shot was out, other thought it was in but they decided to call it out. We moved on.

    Happens all the time.
     
    #26
  27. spiderman123

    spiderman123 Professional

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    Probably because he is afraid Paes will hit him.
     
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  28. kylebarendrick

    kylebarendrick Professional

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    Fixed it for ya!
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2012
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  29. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    I am getting contradictory answers to my question. Do pros look at the partners or not? I rarely watch doubles on TV. Some feel Bhupathi and Bryans do, others say pros don't.
     
    #29
  30. spiderman123

    spiderman123 Professional

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    In general pros don't. Bryans are notable exceptions.
     
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  31. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    Pros who win, like the Bryans, look back. Vic Seixas, even looked back while his partner was serving. When asked if he wasn't concerned with being hit by the serve he said, no, if he knew where the ball was he could get out of the way.
     
    #31
  32. Topaz

    Topaz Legend

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    Ironically, I happened to check this match's score today.

    The opposing captain put in #3 dubs as a double default.

    Which gave my team the win!

    Bizarro.
     
    #32

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