Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by billbobfrd, May 3, 2007.
i keep hitting high balls with too much topspin, what can i do to try to stop this
your post is too vague. you are hitting too much topspin and want to hit more flat?
well like if i hit it goes pretty deep and then it bounces high but it isnt very fast so its easy for my opponent to hit it
so i want to be able to hit with topspin and get it lower, it might be because im brushing too much
oh ok. topspin means its going to kick up higher. period. if you want to lower the bounce, then you have to hit more flat,with less topspin. you cant hit topspin and have it not bounce higher. if you experiment you would notice already.
One major problem with my game is that I brush up too much and hit a lot of quasi-loopers, which prevents me from hitting winners when I'm in position to do so. Although I'm capable of hitting flatter shots (brush up less, i.e. not as much low-to-high swing) if I remind myself to, I often resort to hitting these quasi-loopers.
Hitting flatter shots is something I should be doing more.
Drive through the ball more. If your racquet has enough feel then you can feel the ball on the strings when it makes contact. What I mean by drive is hit forward just a tad bit more before you start brushing up. It makes all the difference. This will not only give you a lower ball but it will also make your shot more powerful.
Hit THROUGH the ball.
All this "brushing up" business is making people do a lot of things they shouldn't do. Some people I know only know how to brush up on the ball and can't seem to actually hit the ball.
A great player I met told me this (I was new to tennis, we played, and he called me a junkballer!),
"Imagine a coffee table with 4 beer mugs sitting on it. Your swing should knock over all 4 mugs."
That is hitting through the ball. The bottom line is that you've got to change your swing path. Quit swinging upwards so much. Step into the ball. Make sure you're getting good weight transfer into the shot. Where does your follow-through end?
Are you pretty new to tennis? What forehand grip are you using?
Getting the ball consistantly deep as you say you are is a great thing... You don't want to lose that.
I agree with what's been said about swing path, but your racquet may also be a small factor. II'm willing to bet you use a lighter racquet with an open string pattern, which makes it easy to produce spin but harder to produce weight on your shots. I'm not saying you should buy a new racquet, but you will have to make a conscious effort to hit through rather than brush up. With a heavier, old-fashioned racquet, it would simply be more taxing to brush up so you probably wouldn't do it as much.
i was (am?) having the same problem... hit alot on clay with some looping hitters over the winter. so i got into huge looping topspin (maybe moonballs too)...
and now in hard court outdoor play worse and/or less topspin guys, i'm finding my topspin isn't helping me at all. doesn't seem like huge topspin causes nearly the problems on hardcourts
.. so i've moved from SW back to eastern-ish (occasional even towards continental). i find it's helping with pretty much everything, and i think it helps to be playing alot with these grips (i.e. muscle memory) when it comes to approach shots and volleys. just my opinion on the last part.
I think Bottlerocket's got a...
...pretty good handle on it. One other thing to think about is that tennis is not an arm sport, it's a leg sport. If you want to get more heaviness into the ball (which is what you want...you don't actually want to hit with less topspin...), you need to get your legs and torso involved so you're creating some serious angular momentum. The arm is just the last skater in a long line of crack the whip. Think about what a discus thrower does...it definitely ain't just an arm stroke there...
Flatten out your stroke.
What grip u usin?
That's a good point. If you're "arming" the swing (i.e. leading with the hand), that'll usually cause excessive wiping on the ball. The harder you try to "arm" it, the more topspin you'll put on the ball. You actually drive the ball harder when you're keeping your arm more relaxed and work on making cleaner contact with the racquet.
Another thing that helps to flatten the stroke is lowering your finish. If you're finishing around your ears, finish just above your shoulder. If you're finishing above your shoulder, try finishing around your arm pits.
That's a good one, thanks!.
I agree with the poster on racquet type. I have recently changed from a heavy topspinner to hitting a more flat ball. I had to change frames! Could not do it with a light weight open string pattern frame. Now I use a close 18X19 and an 18X20 pattern, heavier frame vs. my 16X19. Much more solid.
simple tip really: aim lower, like the bottom of the net, but without letting up on your swing.
This hit through the ball advice seems sound. Beer mug metaphor also vivid to ponder. Yet sometimes when I try to hit through the ball instead of brushing up on it, while also incorporating the low to high swing path as instructed, I hit rising line drive that threaten to rip a hole in top of back fence like I am George Herman Ruth! What is the solution in such a scenario then?
Sounds like an issue of timing as well as the location of your contact point.
The low to high swinging idea is something helpful for beginners. Once you progress, I think you learn it isn't that simple. Check out some videos on youtube. Look at Federer's swing path. Nobody with a penetrating forehand just simply swings "low to high". They are generally hitting with a fairly flat swing path (obviously with an upward component), a slightly closed racket face, and enough racket head speed to make everything work. Step up to and in to the ball, this is where your legs come in it.
What you must have is racket head speed. You can't just slowly swing at the ball with a stiff arm and expect to get top spin, depth, and pace. It will never happen. This is why timing and your contact point are so important.
I mentioned the follow through in my first post. Pay attention to that. Where is your arm/racket end up after the swing?
As far as the guys talking about heavier rackets, I understand what they're saying. It can help, but it isn't the solution. To think you can't hit a pentrating shot with a nice balance of spin and pace with a light racket is a terrible thing to believe. Many women touring pro's are using stock frames under 11 ounces... But this thread really doesn't need to turn into a racket thread.
If you want heavy penetrating topspin, you have to have your body positioned properly behind the ball and you have to push through as you lift upwards. Also, the poster who mentioned you have to incorporate torso rotation is right on as well.
Anyway, check out how the pros do it:
I think jco872 is right, push your bodyweight through+ get rotation as you lift upwards is the key.I use a lot of topspin+i have this same problem sometimes of brushing to much.It is a fine line of timing that makes all the difference, by just getting your weight into the shot at the right time can make the difference of a weak spinny ball+ a heavy topspin shot.
I dont agree with the knocking 4 beers down in a row swing, that is how the more conventional continental or eastern grip type players swing.If you are using sw or western grip you have to be careful of swinging through the ball to much,as dommod said he can drive the ball into back fence if he hits through it to much.
Watching the videos jco87 posted you can see they drive through some, but the racquet is quickly rising after contact.I think most of the pros power is coming from the lift+ rotation not driving through the ball, you have to drive through some, but like i said it is a fine line between to much or to little.
Does this look "conventional" to you?
Continental and eastern grippers are the ones that need an upward swing path (high follow though) to keep the ball in, esecially today with the current popular rackets. Hitting through the ball with a semi-western or nearly western grip with a slight upwards swing path will give you an incredibly effective forehand. Nadal is a huge exception to this rule, but the dwindling effectiveness of Roddick's forehand really proves it for me. Look at the guys with the best forehands in the game, the forehands that really penetrate the court. How about Sharapova? She'd be knocking all the mugs over for sure...
I'd be interested in hearing Bagumbawalla's or Tennis Mastery's take on this.
Again in that video fed is going up + to the side quickly after contact, i dont think he would have knocked 4 beers off a table. You have to hit through the ball some but not like the older style players like connors using a gate type swing.The pros are generating tremendous torque from the lift+ rotation, that is were the power comes from not hitting through the ball.In your video of fed it looks like he is finishing with a slight windshield wiper followthrough.
Are we talking mens tennis here or womens?The women definitely do swing through the ball more, now a lot of them probably would knock the 4 beers down.Almost all of the women swing a lot different than the men do, the women use the more conventional style.The women have to hit through the ball more to get enough power, the men dont hit through as much so the ball will say in the court.
How should someone with an eastern forehand swing? Still low to high somewhat? Where are they supposed to finish?
Have you tried aiming lower?
You're stating that at the highest levels of the game the men and women have to swing differently. The men have to swing upwards more and produce more top spin to keep the ball in. The women are not swinging so fast, so they don't have to. They can use a flatter swing without the ball sailing long. Did I get that right?
You are inferring that the same discrepencies between the men and women at the high levels is the same at the lower levels (3.0-4.0)? Can't be... No way.
Nobody on this board is hitting the ball nearly as hard as the top women pro's, yet they have to swing like the top men do to keep the ball in?
Makes no sense...
The women are much better than any of us will ever be, but if we are to look at any strokes for example, the women's technique is much more attainable for us. In my opinion, we should be lookin at the their forehands. If Clijsters can keep the ball in with a weighted PD by truly hitting though the ball, so can we.
Look at the best forehands in the game and you will find players hitting through the ball. Please pay no attention to Nadal for this. Look at the old Roddick, look at current Federer, look at Blake.
Using the pro's in this argument at all is sort of meaningless, but I thought it was a decent example.
I think this can be a helpful topic and I'd be extremely interested in hearing more opinions.
Yes i am stating that the pro men+women hit the ball in a different way, all you have to do is watch some slo mo clips to see that.Now i am not saying that the same discrepencies that there are between club players between men+ women that is what you are saying.
The women are better players than most anybody on this site, but i would not say that they hit harder than all the men here.I am not here to discuss the difference in the way women strike the ball.We were talking about hitting through the ball, and i dont agree with your suggestion of knocking 4 beers of a table tecnique.
If you want to use that method then go ahead many players have good luck with that method.But that is not the way of the modern pro forehand, just watch some clips in the other discussion here about the wind shield wiper forehand.It is very obvious the pros would not be knocking 4 beers off a table with most of thier swings.
They only go through the ball for a very short part of the stroke+then quickly go off to the side, this way they can hit the ball hard+apply tremendous topspin to the ball.And the most important part they can keep the ball in the court with this method.Thye days of the jimmy connors gate swing are gone!!
You need tighter sting job (for lower deflection angle) and/or change the angle at which the racket face hits the ball (the face needs to lean more forward and more parallel to the floor)
More of a drive through the ball without the adjustments above will probably have the ball sailing on you.
Yes, mostly I aim too low, heaven forbid! I use EASTERN FOREHAND. Many times I forget this low to high and safe net clearance advice and hit into net. Other times I have the trouble of rising line drive home runs. But sometimes I get it right and hit nice ball!
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