Top Spin 4 Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Odds & Ends' started by jamesblakefan#1, Jan 18, 2011.

  1. Lionheart

    Lionheart Rookie

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    I'll be online for a while if anyone wants to play ;)
     
  2. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

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    Oh it was you!

    Awesome game! That was so much fun! I'll beat you next time! :) The best thing I can do against Serve and volley points is try to crack them down the line. It's quite hard to hit cross court passing shots.

    Next time I'll play you with my serve and volley player and we'll see how I do!

    -Fuji
     
  3. Zildite

    Zildite Hall of Fame

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    ^Hey, can you play now?
     
  4. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

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    I can play in about 45 minutes if that's okay! My PS3 is being hogged for a movie from my parents right now LOL!

    -Fuji
     
  5. flyinghippos101

    flyinghippos101 Legend

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    Question: Does the matchmaker set up matches against players around your rank on 2K open?
     
  6. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Talk Tennis Guru

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    Nope, u can get someone terrible or someone great.
     
  7. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

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    Hey everyone! Going on PSN now for a bit! Anyone interested in a match?

    PSN: As_Bold_As_Lions

    -Fuji
     
  8. kiwiconman

    kiwiconman Rookie

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  9. rdis10093

    rdis10093 Hall of Fame

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    take it, I paid 60 for it
     
  10. flyinghippos101

    flyinghippos101 Legend

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    Very hot deal, pounce on it while you still can. Even Top Spin 3 hasn't reached the $20 mark, it's still hovering around the $30 mark at most retailers.
     
  11. cknobman

    cknobman Legend

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    I keep coming back to TopSpin 4 every week or two to give it another try but every time I just get really pissed off at it and have to walk away.

    Some of the things about this game are just total bs.

    Im at the tail end of my career lvl 20 and just keep encountering matches where the computer gets to pull of shots that are just not possible by a player. Im all about being fair an nothing pisses me off more than the computer being able to make shots that are just not possible for a human controlled player to do.

    Examples:
    • Return of serve: computer can just crack a 100+mph return out of no where. as a player you just dont get time to do this because you have to hold down your shot button and wait for the meter to fill up. I have "instant rocket" and still get nowhere close to a full meter before having to hit a 2nd slow serve return.
    • Running winner forehand/backhand: again same principal as return of serve. Computer on flat out run can hit the super hard winner but as a player you cannot because to fill up your meter all the way you have to stop and set up.
    • Off balanced falling backwards shots: computer can pull off super short severe angled shots or 100+ mph shots so its impossible to know what type of defense to prepare for.
    No dont get me wrong I am not necessarily saying the computer should never be able to pull off a shot like these because it is certainly possible to do in real life. What I am against though is the fact that they make it impossible for a human controlled player to pull off that shot. Its almost like a built in cheat for the computer.

    At least in every other past version of the TopSpin series there was always a way to pull off a super high risk shot like that for human controlled players.

    If there is a way in TS4 please let me know.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2011
  12. Zildite

    Zildite Hall of Fame

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    You don't really need to charge up a full power shot to get a big return of serve.
    The best thing I have found is to time it perfectly and you can club it back pretty hard more often that not with a flat shot. Also it's usually easier if its a hard flat serve coming at you too. The powderpuff ones seem to be the hardest to smack back. Finally it should be easier with a high reflex good returner like Djokovic/Murray/Agassi. No need for instant rocket.
    The hardest return I have seen was when I served flat one time to an expert-AI Murray. It was like Blake's return against Huta Galung at the USO this year but in the corner instead of down the middle :shock: If I used a topspin or slice serve I doubt that would have happened.
    They can seem unfair at times but are still beatable with the right strategy.

    I was disappointed at not being able to see a win/loss record for the 2K Open? It only shows your wins...It has it in WT but that place is annoying. Especially direct matches where it can stall in the lobby for ages. Tried to help a guy play some DM's recently and it was a pain :-?
     
  13. ChopShot

    ChopShot Semi-Pro

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    Sure, the AI cheats. Novak Trollovic and Andy Murray are the worst by far, as far as cheating goes. However, do not despair, there is a way to beat them.
    First of all, you absolutely must move them! Even an Expert AI can't blow you off the court if you move them around well enough. The importance of variety can't be understated. Topspin, topspin, then slice. Keep them guessing. If you hit the same shot over and over again, the AI will cheat into the court.
    Second of all, watch for patterns. Novak Djokovic will go DTL 9 times out of 10, use the CC opening against him. Murray will slice excessively. Come in off his short slices, or drop-shot them.
    At the net, unless you've got a volley skill of higher than 70, use the slice volley for everything except sitters. Passing shots will almost always come crosscourt. Go for placement, move your opponent around. Draw him up to the net, then volley behind him.
    When serving, placement over power. A hard, flat serve in the middle of the box will be smacked back faster than you can react. A moderately hard one in the corner of the box will send your opponent reeling. Wide serves are your best bet if you can't hit straight aces.
     
  14. jlan

    jlan Rookie

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    I'm done with this game. The online cheaters just took the fun out of it. I run into force laggers with super teleportation powers pretty much every match now. It's ridiculous.

    To all those I've played with from TW, thanks for all the fun matches :D
     
  15. Netspirit

    Netspirit Hall of Fame

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    So how do you guys deal with those robots who seem hit the ball into one of the 4 corners (2 at the service line, 2 at the baseline) EVERY time they get to the ball, at the maximum pace? There are no rallies basically. I make one sub-optimal shot, and it's all over. Are some people just this good with their reactions and controller? )

    Also, what is your typical "go to" shot - flat (A) or topspin (B)?
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2011
  16. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Talk Tennis Guru

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    Weird, that hasn't happened to me in FOREVER.

    I slice, use topspin, and go flat each about the same percent. So 33/33/33% for me.
     
  17. Lionheart

    Lionheart Rookie

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    Top Spin about 80% of the time, just like everyone does in real life. You get control and margin.

    Flat shots very rarely as you only really need them on a short ball to finish a point or to push the point to your side if you're at the baseline and it's a ball that you can be SURE to get the timing perfect.

    Slice usually to slow down a rally. Together with topspin it's very useful if you play a deep ball to the middle in a tough rally. No matter what your opponent level is they will usually miss.
     
  18. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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  19. FedExpress 333

    FedExpress 333 Professional

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    I LOVE this update!
     
  20. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Talk Tennis Guru

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    Hmm im ready to try that out :)
     
  21. Netspirit

    Netspirit Hall of Fame

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    Good update. I was getting tired of those super-powerful weirdos, dropshot abusers and magicians hitting slice winners from improbable defensive situations. )

    I am slowly getting better. However, there are still quite a few people (especially from the very top of the rankings) who dismantle me 0 and 0 without any serious rallying. I find comfort in telling myself that I, unlike them, actually have a life and career. )

    I noticed that once I play on some particular surface, I get the timing grooved in and the game becomes all about who makes the "first strike" - corner shot at the maximum power. In 2K Open, however, surfaces are random, so by the time I get used to one, the match is mostly over. /
     
  22. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Talk Tennis Guru

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    The update is ok, but I think drop shots already had to be precise enough. Now they float too much.
     
  23. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

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    The new update is odd! I play as Roddick most of the time these days, and I serve and volley with him mostly now. I can't play defense with him because he's too slow and slices just float up!

    I still have to play around more with the update and keep working at it!

    -Fuji
     
  24. Brollipower

    Brollipower Guest

    Most Roddicks i play online play 10 miles behind the baseline and whack the ball at full power whenever they can....
     
  25. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    Good. No offense but the super slices from defensive positions was one of the biggest flaws in the game. Glad that they no longer exist.

    ---

    Just had an angry moment where I was Fed against Djokovic online and Djoker broke me to win a set and did his stupid little chest bump thingy.

    [​IMG]

    I just wanted to rip his face off! :twisted:

    Gladly I won 10-8 in the 3rd TB. All in all I think the update is ok. Still not as many UEs as I would like, though I did have 29/15 W/UEs so who knows. But still good that the slice has finally been toned down.
     
  26. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Talk Tennis Guru

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    I don't really like the update too much. Why hit a slice if it doesn't stay low? Why drop shot when it lands past the service box? They ruined Becker for me (who I was best with) now im best with Murray and Roddick.
     
  27. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

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    Same with me! I'm playing pretty good with Roddick now that I got used to it, but it was nice being able to play A LITTLE bit of defense! Now it's hard to win unless you are able to transition to offense right away!

    -Fuji
     
  28. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Talk Tennis Guru

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    Too many UE's on routine shots too, to me it was perfect after the first or 2nd update, however it was before this one. Now this one is too sketch. Im still gonna play though, but I don't feel as good as I was before at all.
     
  29. rdis10093

    rdis10093 Hall of Fame

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    my guy I made was all about def. Now, his slice is crap. New update makes it harder to go from def. to kill shot
     
  30. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Talk Tennis Guru

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    Slices are such crap now, it makes me mad bc I loved my backhand slice. Same with droppers.
     
  31. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

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    Exactly! Also I saw that today, A TON of people were getting robbed on there serves. I was playing at RG and these guys were serving really well, IN THE BOX IN THE CORNER, EVEN LEAVING A BLOODY MARK, and the game would call it out. It did this to at least 20 first serves! I don't like winning when the game is calling good shots out.

    The biggest improvement I've actually noticed was my serve and volley guy! His volleys seemed to get a bit of a boost when they weren't "perfect", but still "good". Before a "good" was only mediocre, but now I am able to hit winners off of "good" volleys! :)

    -Fuji
     
  32. rdis10093

    rdis10093 Hall of Fame

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    i could never hit drop shots on the game, but my bh slcie was my money shot
     
  33. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    Well it's more realistic, before on defense you could hit unrealistic laser slices that would instantly turn the point for you. Does that happen in real tennis when a guy is 10 ft behind the baseline? Of course not. So all in all it's more realistic.

    Sounds like a lot of you were slice cheesers, which this update finally killed. The slice was overpowered anyways, how many slice FH winners do you see in a real match? In TS4 before the update the slice FH was one of the strongest shots, lol. Now slice is actually a strategic defensive shot instead of a powerful offensive shot. I like it.
     
  34. flyinghippos101

    flyinghippos101 Legend

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    I agree, this patch definitely made the gameplay a great deal more realistic. But I suddenly feel that post patch, the slice isn't even practical in a defensive position. Sure the sniper slice shots that turned the tide of a rally were annoying, but I can help but feel they nerfed the slices a tad too much. Guys like Fed are meant to have great slices, they could've at least nerfed the fh slice and tweaked the bh slice so as to make it less of an offensive weapon and more defensive but still make it so that it still stayed low.

    Btw sorry I didn't respond to your invite, I was downloading resi 4 and ust left my Xbox on while I was doing homework.
     
  35. Zildite

    Zildite Hall of Fame

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    Fed should have a good slice but there is nothing in the game that gives him that advantage. Guys with Slice Invasion/Poisoned Slice like Murray/Simon/Chang should be better but I'm not sure that I noticed much difference.
    Should be better with slower slice at least, I mostly liked it for the low bounce which isn't as effective now or playing a control shot to kill the pace.
    Drop shots are still ok for me, the update doesn't seem like it will make me play that much different.
    Gameplay tweaks are alright, wouldn't mind some DLC pros/venues/gear though. PSN store link is still empty :oops:
     
  36. flyinghippos101

    flyinghippos101 Legend

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    Took some time to test this patch out some more and played for an hour or two and now I realized that this patch is terrible. It's one thing to balance and tweak slices so that you're not hitting impossible winners from defensive positions or hitting ridiculous slices on the defensive that changes the dynamics of the rally; but its another to nerf the slice to the point where it's impractical to use it under any circumstances. This patched has practically relegated the slice to being a shot that, no matter what position you're in and how time you have to set up, will land short and is practically a guarenteed winner for your opponent.

    Not to mention this slice patch only makes Fed worse (who was already a crap character to begin with) who at least had a decent slice to compensate for his poorly distributed stats anyways. Now he doesn't even have that anymore. I'm playing Fed, there's no reason why his slice is on par with Nadal's despite both reality and his in-game slice ability.

    You dun' goofed 2K.
     
  37. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    I don't agree. I've used the short slice quite a bit to force UEs from my opponents. If I had to choose to have the slice overpowered or underpowered I'd say underpowered would be the way to go. So in that regard I'm ok w/ the slice.

    I know your guy is slice invasion so you relied on the slice quite a bit, but from other players' perspective the slice was far too dominant and you'd see things like slice rallies and slice passing shots which barely ever happen IRL. And it's still possible to hit good slices, just not as easy and not as strong. All in all I have no problem w/ that part of the update.

    And FWIW I have played a few matches w/ Fed since the update and am still able to win with him. You can't rely on the slice as the main aspect of your game, which again I'm ok with since what pro does? The slice is primarily a defensive shot meant to draw errors as a change of pace, not an offensive shot. So in that regard the update has it spot on.

    And from what I've seen slice returns are still quite useful when use correctly.
     
  38. Zildite

    Zildite Hall of Fame

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    It doesn't seem so bad to me although I haven't played online since the update.
    Played expert-Djokovic @ Miami with Fed using a lot more slice than normal and still won a hyper TB 20-14 with 16W/0 UE.
    The depth looked alright, even hit the baseline a few times when I got perfect timing. Actually the bonus for getting perfect timing seemed more noticeable which I liked.
     
  39. flyinghippos101

    flyinghippos101 Legend

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    Sure, slices were a vital part of my guy's game and I definitely agree that they were overpowered. But tweaking it to the opposite extreme is hardly a suitable remedy. Why not establish a good medium and have it still be a practical shot?

    And i'm still winning matches with Fed, but it's harder. It's not that I relied on Fed's slice too much, but it was definitely a shot that I used to tie his game together. Sure slices are predominantly a defensive shot, but it's not beyond the realm of possibility to change the rhythm of the rally with a decent slice during a neutral rally. It was only uber defensive slices that raised eyebrows. And this patch , IMO, I feels completely neglects this.
     
  40. SStrikerR

    SStrikerR Hall of Fame

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    Hm, I havent been connected to online for about a month now, so I'm wary to connect my xbox to Live again for a while. Drop shots are terrible with the latest update I received, but I'm satisfied with the game how it is right now I suppose.
     
  41. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Talk Tennis Guru

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    I agree. They RUINED Becker for me like I said, the funny thing is i've played with a few guys now. I used to HATE Nadal, but now out of the 5 guys I tried, his slice is the best. Weird!?! I don't think they nerfed his at all. Nadal slices as well as everyone else used to. Try it out if you don't believe me. Now im Him/Murray/Roddick the most, and can't play with Becker to save my life.
     
  42. BigServer1

    BigServer1 Legend

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    The update definitely increases errors, slice isn't as effective.

    Overall though I don't hate it, it's definitely more realistic.
     
  43. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Talk Tennis Guru

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    How cute is this? Lol

    [​IMG]
     
  44. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

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    LOL! I really like that!

    -Fuji
     
  45. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Talk Tennis Guru

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    Dead topic, no bueno. So guys what would u say is your best strength and or weakness in this game when you play online? A strength of mine is im not afraid to mix it up, I never get predictable, and always go for my shots. I'll throw in a dropshot when down match point like it's the first game of the match. You?
     
  46. Zildite

    Zildite Hall of Fame

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    I guess I go with consistency, although its harder in online play than offline. Not sure if I'm better than average at figuring out peoples patterns, but that is usually key to winning. If you are predictable, you will probably get beat unless you are really good at what you do.
    Not great at holding serve all the time. I think when I played jlan I had one service hold, but three breaks. Don't really have a reliable go-to plan. Not so great at the net online as well.

    Also good at trolling people by winning with Bouchard ;D
     
  47. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Talk Tennis Guru

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    Yeah I love playing guys that S&V bc I always figure out ways to break them down before the match is over.
     
  48. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    Well with my created pro I'm the master of attacking the short ball and finishing at the net. I come to net at least 20+ times in a best of 3, 6 game match. But lately when I play I've been playing 2K Open w/ Fed and using the big FH and coming to net to finish points. So yeah, net play is essential for any player I use. Though I still can win w/ Blake even though his net stats aren't as high.
     
  49. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

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    I've started to really mess people up! I made my counter puncher almost totally defensive baseliner, but then I practiced serve and volleying with him with great success! :)

    -Fuji
     
  50. flyinghippos101

    flyinghippos101 Legend

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    I usually just play with Wozniacki now.

    17 wins and counting
     

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