Top Ten from 1980 onwards........

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by JohnThomas1, Apr 23, 2005.

  1. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Professional

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    Messages:
    977
    Who are the top ten from 1980 forward? This has been my era of following tennis and i am interested to see what peeps think. Greats that achieved more before 1980 but were still playing serious tennis i want included with their earlier achievements considered. Borg, Connors, Evert etc.
     
    #1
  2. federerhoogenbandfan

    federerhoogenbandfan Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2005
    Messages:
    2,702
    Grrr, how dare you try to overshadow my thread. A hex on you a hex, a HEEEXXXX!!!!! :mrgreen:
     
    #2
  3. federerhoogenbandfan

    federerhoogenbandfan Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2005
    Messages:
    2,702
    Ok here are mine:

    Men:

    1)Bjorn Borg
    2)Pete Sampras
    3)Ivan Lendl
    4)Andre Agassi
    5)John McEnroe
    6)Jimmy Conners
    7)Mats Wilander
    8)Roger Federer
    9)Boris Becker
    10)Stephan Edberg


    Women:

    1)Steffi Graf
    2)Martina Navratilova
    3)Chris Evert
    4)Serena Williams
    5)Martina Hingis
    6)Hana Mandilikova
    7)Lindsay Davenport
    8)Aranxta Sanchez Vicario
    9)Venus Williams
    10)Henin Hardenne and Tracy Austin tied
     
    #3
  4. Serena2

    Serena2 Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2005
    Messages:
    141
    Err hello-how can seles not be included in that list????? even with the stabbing shes top 5 and without it probably the greatest ever.
     
    #4
  5. federerhoogenbandfan

    federerhoogenbandfan Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2005
    Messages:
    2,702
    Sorry, slip Seles in at #3, and bump everybody down a notch, bumping Henin and Austin off the list.
     
    #5
  6. Serena2

    Serena2 Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2005
    Messages:
    141
    Ok thanx! that sounds good to me. Maybe Henin should be included and not Mandlikova-im not sure??
     
    #6
  7. federerhoogenbandfan

    federerhoogenbandfan Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2005
    Messages:
    2,702
    It is hard to say. Mandilikova has 1 more slam, but she never had a dominant stretch like Henin-Hardenne did briefly. She had so much more longevity though, of course she was around longer, and she won her 4 slams playing against Evert and Nav.,
    and was runner up at Wimbledon twice to Henin's once. It is a tough call.
     
    #7
  8. Serena2

    Serena2 Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2005
    Messages:
    141
    Yea, your right. But id probably put Henin in just because of her backhand! And the 2003 US Open 1/2 against capriati was amazing how she won it. Only seen a bit of Mandlikova so im not sure.
     
    #8
  9. need2paint

    need2paint Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Messages:
    375
    I would put Martina ahead of Steffi. Had they been the same age I think Martina would have beaten Steffi most of the time.
     
    #9
  10. AndrewD

    AndrewD Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2004
    Messages:
    6,581
    Some good picks there. Here's mine, remembering that it's from 1980 onwards and both Borg and Austin were finished by 1981. Having Mandlikova above Venus and Justine H-H is more a case of their careers not being finished yet. If, when they are, they've added to their tallies they'll pass her. Federer's low rank is similar. He's only been dominant for the last couple of years whereas the others sustained a peak for longer and, apart from Borg and Sampras, were fighting each other for each major title. If he keeps winning then he'll most likely move up to #2 or #3.

    Men:

    1)Pete Sampras
    2)Ivan Lendl
    3)John McEnroe
    4)Andre Agassi
    5)Mats Wilander
    6)Boris Becker
    7)Stephan Edberg
    8)Roger Federer
    9)Jimmy Connors
    10)Bjorn Borg/Jim Courier

    Women:

    1)Steffi Graf
    2)Martina Navratilova
    3)Chris Evert
    4)Monica Seles
    5)Serena Williams
    6)Martina Hingis
    7)Hana Mandilikova
    8)Henin Hardenne
    9) Venus Williams
    10) Lindsay Davenport/Aranxta Sanchez Vicario
     
    #10
  11. Jet Rink

    Jet Rink Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2005
    Messages:
    677
    1. Sampras
    2. Borg
    3. McEnroe
    4. Connors
    5. Lendl
    7. Agassi
    8. Wilander
    9. Becker
    10. Edberg

    Jet
     
    #11
  12. 35ft6

    35ft6 Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2005
    Messages:
    6,557
    1. Sampras
    2. Agassi
    3. Lendl
    4. McEnroe

    from here on out, things get hazy:

    5. Becker
    6. Edberg
    7. Federer
    8. Courier
    9. Wilander
    10. Hewitt
     
    #12
  13. Deuce

    Deuce Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2004
    Messages:
    5,270
    Location:
    A not so parallel universe...
    When will you people learn the game? And how about a little respect?!

    Shlomo, Shlomo, Shlomo...
     
    #13
  14. Northerly

    Northerly Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2005
    Messages:
    139
    Henin Hardenne wouldn't have won any Slams if she'd played when Mandlikova did!
     
    #14
  15. activentures

    activentures Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2004
    Messages:
    160
    Sampras
    Lendl
    Borg
    Agassi
    McEnroe
    Connors
    Federer
    Becker
    Wilander
    Edberg
     
    #15
  16. activentures

    activentures Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2004
    Messages:
    160
    how about 90 onwards??

    Sampras
    Agassi
    Becker
    Federer
    Edberg
    Courier
    Hewitt
    Rafter
    Guga
    Kafelnikov/Safin


    I'm now cowering in a corner waiting for the bullets to strike!!
     
    #16
  17. 35ft6

    35ft6 Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2005
    Messages:
    6,557
    How about 25,000 BC on? Because scientists found the remains of a cave man, wonderfully preserved in ice, and he's holding a some type of racket. Strung with natural gut. And judging by the looks of him, he could have been the best ever. I mean, if old timers are better than modern players, and this caveman is older than anybody, then that means this uni-browed brute is the best player in history. Hurry for Grok.
     
    #17
  18. The Pusher Terminator

    The Pusher Terminator Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2004
    Messages:
    1,927
    1-10...John Mcenroe

    1-10 ...Monica Seles
     
    #18
  19. Jack the Hack

    Jack the Hack Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2005
    Messages:
    1,802
    I just posted a list in the "Lendl vs. McEnroe" thread, but I modify it for the extended range of time. Here is my top ten:

    1. Pete Sampras (Played in 18 Grand Slam finals, won a record 14! Never made it past the semi at the French, but dominated everywhere else.)

    2. Bjorn Borg (Played in 16 Grand Slam finals, won 11. He ruled the French Open and Wimbledon back to back several times, which is one of the most amazing accomplishments ever... never to be duplicated.)

    3. Ivan Lendl (Played in 19 Grand Slam finals, won 8. He was a finalist in all Slams, and could win on any surface. He changed the way pros looked at fitness, and set the pattern for power baseliners.)

    4. Jimmy Conners (Played in 15 Grand Slam finals, won 8. He is only one of three players to win a Slam on all three surfaces - grass, clay, and hard court. Won more overall tournaments - 109!!! - and matches - 1,222!!! - than any player in history.)

    5. Andre Agassi (Played in 14 Grand Slam finals, won 8. One of only three players to win a Slam on all three surfaces, and one of only 5 to win all 4 of the Slams. It could be argued as to whether he or Connors should be #4, and Andre could yet win another Slam to bump himself up.)

    6. Mats Wilander (Played in 11 Grand Slam finals, won 7. Along with Conners and Andre Agassi, he is one of only three players to win a Slam on all three surfaces. Note, the '83 and '84 Australians were on grass... and he also won a Wimbledon doubles title with Joakim Nystrom in '86. He could play on fast courts or rule on clay.)

    7. John McEnroe (Played in 11 Grand Slam finals, won 7. Tremendous artistry with the game, along with fiery outgoing personality made him a star, but he never recovered after his 12 month absence in '86 - other competitors passed him by with increased fitness, power, and desire.)

    8. Stefan Edberg (Played in 11 Grand Slam finals, won 6. Was a finalist at all of the Slams, and could be argued as better than McEnroe. However, he won 1 less Slam in the same amount of finals, so he gets bumped to #8.)

    9. Jim Courier (Played in 7 Grand Slam finals, won 4. He played in the final of all the Slams, dominating for a brief time before Sampras took off.)

    10. Roger Federer (Played in 4 Grand Slam finals - so far - and won all 4.)

    If he keeps it up, Federer will seriously challenge Lendl, Borg, and Sampras as the best overall player, post-1980 (or ever...) but he has a long way to go. Also, the likes of Safin, Ferrero, Roddick, or Nadel could easily break into the historical top 10 within the next few years.

    As far as women, I won't go into the same detail, but I think the top 5 goes something like:

    1. Steffi Graf
    2. Martina Navratilova
    3. Chris Evert
    4. Monica Seles
    5. Serena Williams

    I wish that Seles hadn't gotten stabbed as I would have loved to see if she could have gotten past Chris, Martina, and Steffi. She was dominating and on her way like Federer is with Sampras... but that crime robbed her of any chance to be best ever.
     
    #19
  20. Jack the Hack

    Jack the Hack Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2005
    Messages:
    1,802
    Ooops!

    My apologies to Becker fans!

    Boris Becker should be in there at #9 instead of Courier. Boris played in 9 Grand Slam finals and won 5. The interesting thing is that as talented as Boris was, he never won a clay tournament on the pro tour... several finals, but no wins!

    Anyway, that moves Courier down to #10, in a tie with Federer. However, as I mentioned, I think it is just a matter of time before Federer moves up and another talented youngster breaks through for 4+ career Slams. (Safin, Roddick, Ferrero, Nadel... or maybe a huge comeback by Guga or Moya?)
     
    #20
  21. Jack the Hack

    Jack the Hack Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2005
    Messages:
    1,802
    Or Hewitt hanging on and sneaking out another 2 or 3 Slams...
     
    #21
  22. Kevin Patrick

    Kevin Patrick Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    2,025
    Becker made 10 GS finals, winning 6.
     
    #22
  23. Jack the Hack

    Jack the Hack Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2005
    Messages:
    1,802
    Kevin, you are right!

    I missed the '96 Australian where he beat Michael Chang when I was putting my list together. A couple minutes after I posted the original list, I realized I made a huge omission in leaving off Becker and was scarmbling to get him added on before someone slammed my mistake!!!

    However, I wouldn't put him above Edberg at #8, who made one more final... and was a finalist at all of the Slams.
     
    #23
  24. spirit

    spirit Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2005
    Messages:
    375
    Pete Sampras
    John McEnroe (remember to add in his GOAT doubles play)
    Bjorn Borg
    Ivan Lendl
    Jimmy connors
    Stefan Edberg
    Mats Wilander
    Andre Agassi
    Boris Becker
    Jim Courier
    Roger Federer (he will definitely move up unless a catastrophe happens)

    As for women, I have more trouble rating them, but I see no reason to differ from Jack the Hacks best 5 list:

    Stefi Graf
    Martina Navritolova
    Chris Evert
    Monica Seles
    Serena Williams (if she got some good coaching and concentrated on her tennis she could move up)
     
    #24
  25. federerhoogenbandfan

    federerhoogenbandfan Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2005
    Messages:
    2,702
    I am sorry but I laugh at the thought of putting Federer below Courier, to each their own though.
     
    #25
  26. Jack the Hack

    Jack the Hack Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2005
    Messages:
    1,802
    If something were to happen to Federer today and he could never play again, he would have 4 Grand Slam titles to his name - an excellent career for anyone, and probably a guaranteed Hall of Fame induction. But, Courier would outrank him by having made 7 Grand Slam finals (winning 4), including making the finals of all four.

    I thought I made myself perfectly clear that if Federer continues on the path of dominance he is currently on, he will end up as one of the best ever - far ahead of Courier. In fact, 5-10 years from now, Courier may not be on anyone's top 10 list of the best post-80s players... while Federer might be at the top. However, he needs to keep winning and achieve the titles to solidify himself in history.

    Don't be one of those type of folks that would put Lebron James in the top 50 basketball players of all time before he ever wins a title!

    (If we are making a list of the greatest pure TALENTs in the past 25 years, let's go ahead and put Safin in the top 10. But if we are talking the best players, I have to go with cold hard accomplishments... and Federer is on the path to be one of the best.)
     
    #26
  27. federerhoogenbandfan

    federerhoogenbandfan Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2005
    Messages:
    2,702
    Federer would be above Courier even today. They both have 4 slams, Federer has won 3 of the 4, Courier only 2, Federer won 3 in one year, a momentual feat Courier never achieved. Federer has stats like 16 straight finals won, and winning his first 4 slam finals. 3 of Courier's 4 slams were at the Aussie and French, 3 of 4 of Fed's at Wimbledon and the U.S, isnt it generally considered the latter two are slightly more prestigious, more slams often still wins out, but when there is a tie or very close to a high number one would always look at that.

    If Federer retired today I would guess atleast 8 out of 10 experts would have him over Courier without problem, in fact I would bet money on it if there ever was a poll among experts of the game.
     
    #27
  28. 35ft6

    35ft6 Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2005
    Messages:
    6,557
    I remember when you could say this and absolutely nobody would argue.

    But does Todd Woodbridge deserve consideration?
     
    #28
  29. Jack the Hack

    Jack the Hack Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2005
    Messages:
    1,802
    federerhoogenbandfan,

    Very good points and I can agree with your assessment. I don't want to discount Courier's accomplishments as they are very worthy - and I don't think it is "laughable" to compare his record with Federer's at this point. However, we are splitting hairs here that aren't worth arguing over! Besides, unless something terrible happens to Federer or he becomes satisfied once he reached 7-8 Slams, he is likely to go down as one of the greatest players ever before he his done.

    (By the way, I am also a big Federer fan, so I'm not trying to say he's not already great. If I was going to pay for a ticket to a match, I would much rather watch Federer than the blunt style of Courier! Federer is the first player in years where I have watched and seen him do something so unbelievable, I've jumped out of my chair shouting "Oh my G*d, did you see that!!!")
     
    #29
  30. federerhoogenbandfan

    federerhoogenbandfan Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2005
    Messages:
    2,702
    Sorry I was in a rush when I typed my last post. You are right I probably am disrespecting Courier's record somewhat and he does have the current edge on Roger in some areas. I just think Roger's 2004 year, and the fact Courier does not top level success spread over a number of years himself, would allow Roger to be above Courier even today. Your points in Courier's argument though are all good.
     
    #30
  31. Coria

    Coria Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2004
    Messages:
    622
    From '80 on:

    1) Sampras
    2) Agassi
    3) McEnroe
    4) Borg
    5) Lendl
    6) Becker
    7) Edberg
    8) Wilander
    9) Connors
    10) Federer--and moving up!!

    1) Graf 2) Martina 3) Evert 4) Seles 5) S. Williams 6) Hingis 7) Davenport
    8) Mandlikova 9) Sanchez 10) Austin--no I would not put Venus in it
     
    #31

Share This Page