Top ten of last 3 decades on each surface

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by flying24, Jun 13, 2009.

  1. flying24

    flying24 Banned

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    Who would you say since 1980 have been the 10 top players on each surface per gender. Here would be mine:

    Men:

    Grass:

    1. Sampras
    2. Federer
    3. McEnroe
    4. Becker
    5. Edberg
    6. Connors (only the 80s onwards)
    7. Nadal
    8. Ivanisevic
    9. Krajicek
    10. Agassi



    Hard Courts:

    1. Federer
    2. Sampras
    3. Lendl
    4. McEnroe
    5. Agassi
    6. Edberg
    7. Connors (again only his 80s onwards)
    8. Courier
    9. Safin
    10. Becker


    Clay:

    1. Nadal
    2. Lendl
    3. Wilander
    4. Kuerten
    5. Borg (1980 and 1981 alone are still enough to put him here)
    6. Muster
    7. Courier
    8. Federer
    9. Bruguera
    10. Ferrero


    Women:

    Grass:

    1. Navratilova (even taking out 1978 and 1979)
    2. Graf
    3. Venus Williams
    4. Serena Williams
    5. Evert (counting only 1980 onwards)
    6. Novotna
    7. Davenport
    8. Sharapova
    9. Mauresmo
    10. Mandlikova


    Hard courts:

    1. Graf
    2. Seles
    3. Navratilova
    4. Serena Williams
    5. Justine Henin
    6. Davenport
    7. Evert (only 1980 onwards othewise would obviously be higher)
    8. Clijsters
    9. Mandlikova
    10. Venus Williams


    Clay:

    1. Graf
    2. Seles
    3. Evert (would be #1 if counted her whole career)
    4. Henin
    5. Sanchez Vicario
    6. Navratilova
    7. Pierce
    8. Kuznetsova
    9. Sabatini (amazing tier 1 success balanced by underacheving at French)
    10. Martinez (same as Sabatini)
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2009
    #1
  2. leonidas1982

    leonidas1982 Hall of Fame

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    Fair list.
     
    #2
  3. CEvertFan

    CEvertFan Hall of Fame

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    Where's McEnroe for grass? You don't even have him in the top 10.
     
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  4. Dean

    Dean Rookie

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    I agree. I'd have him at No.3 after pete and fed. 5 straight wimbledon finals 1980-84 winning 3 times.
     
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  5. egn

    egn Hall of Fame

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    The parts in bold are just my opinions but overall I agree with most of the lists and exception for mens grass all the players on the list. The womens list I felt were pretty spot on.
     
    #5
  6. tudwell

    tudwell Hall of Fame

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    What about Borg on grass? From 1980 onward, he has a win and a runner up. That's better than Hewitt or Krajicek in their entire careers!
     
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  7. imalil2gangsta4u

    imalil2gangsta4u Hall of Fame

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    Besides missing mcenroe, very fair lists.
     
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  8. PERL

    PERL Guest

    It’s something common in sports but I don’t see the point in making rankings by decade(s). It’s not natural and it’s always unfair to a player or another.
     
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  9. Cenc

    Cenc Hall of Fame

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    i can say for men tennis (what i think):
    grass:
    sampras
    becker
    edberg
    federer
    ivanisevic
    agassi
    mcenroe
    hewitt
    rafter
    nadal (although we are talking about extremely slow grass here)

    clay: (excluding borg since he was more from 70s)
    nadal
    kuerten
    bruguera
    wilander
    muster
    courier
    moya
    agassi
    ferrero
    federer

    hard
    agassi
    sampras
    federer
    lendl
    courier
    safin
    becker
    edberg
    rafter
    hewitt

    carpet
    sampras
    becker
    ivanisevic
    edberg
    agassi
    rafter
    rusedski
    hewitt
    federer
    pioline
     
    #9
  10. Dean

    Dean Rookie

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    becker and edberg above fed??? The guy won wimby 5 years in a row and holds the all time unbeaten streak on the surface.

    Ivanisevic and agassi above mac??? Mac won more wimby's than both combined.
     
    #10
  11. flying24

    flying24 Banned

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    Sorry I missed McEnroe on grass purely by accident. I inserted him in.
     
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  12. flying24

    flying24 Banned

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    I accidentally skipped over McEnroe here. I have since corrected it. Anyway considering that I see you have Ivanisevic and Agassi higher than I do, while having Krajicek, Nadal, and Connors lower.

    I rate Krajicek higher since he won Wimbledon in the ultimate fashion, beating Sampras in the midst of his run of winning all 7 Wimbledons. That to me automaticaly bumps him up.

    Nadal has still to prove longevity on the surface but he has been in 3 Wimbledon finals and a row, lost 2 to Federer one hich was a classic, and won a classic over the great Federer. I know the grass was different then but Agassi has less Wimbledon finals than Nadal already has at such a young age, has no grass titles outside of Wimbledon. Furthermore I really dont see Agassi ever winning a Wimbledon final over Federer and I will take going 1-2 vs Federer at Wimbledon with two five setters vs going 1-2 vs Rafter at Wimbledon with two five setters. Agassi also has some horrible losses in the midst of his so called prime years (atleast age wise at Wimbledon) to people like Doug Flach and a young Tommy Haas.

    Connors I give brownie points since he won Wimbledon in 1982 over McEnroe in the final which was a huge upset at the time. After McEnroe had dethroned Borg, long after Borg began his dominance of Connors, it seemed unfathomable Connors would ever win such a big title again and he managed 3 more the other 2 being U.S Opens of course). As a nearly 32 year old he also beat Lendl in the semis two years later. He was in the semis or finals 4 out of 5 years to open the decade even amongst a field of legends.

    Ivanisevic I wasnt sure how to rank. Really he was so unlucky to keep running into Sampras so in a way. On the other hand when goldenopportunities presented himself he often blew them- 1996 losing to Stoltenburg!?!?! just about an hour after Sampras's loss to Krajicek was completed (and Ivanisevic owns Krajicek head to head IIRC). 1992 Wimbledon final vs Agassi which he was expected to win. 1998 Wimbledon final with Sampras where he blew alot of chances. Then when he ultimately won it well past his prime while it was an amazing perforamnce he didnt take down any Wimbledon winners to do it. So I am not totally sure how to rank him.

    Anyway I dont have any problems with your rankings, I guess I was just explaining where mine were coming from seeing where they differ from yours.


    To be honest I never even thought of putting Rafter above those guys I have at the bottom. While back to back U.S Opens is impressive his overall hard court record IMO doesnt compare to Courier, Safin, or Becker. The biggest difference of all is Courier, Safin, and Becker achieved greatly at BOTH hard court slams, not just the U.S Open. Courier has been a multiple semifinal and finalist at the U.S Open in addition to a 2-time winner down under. Safin has been a winner at both, even though has limited # of quality showings at the Open he has 3 finals down under. Becker is a U.S Open Champion with many times in the semis there, while he is a 2 time Australian Open winner. Rafter has his 2 U.S Open titles, and no other appearances beyond the 4th round there. Then he has his 1 Australian Open semi at the end of his career, and no other appearnces beyond the 4th round there. Also looking at Masters titles and other performances on the surface he falls short of those guys clearly IMO.

    I had a hard time choosing between Courier, Federer, and Bruguera. However comparing Courier and Bruguera both have 2 French Opens and a 3rd French Open final. Both have 2 Masters titles on clay. I dont think Bruguera was ever as scary or unbeatable on clay as Courier was in 1992 though. Of course that is just an opinion, but look at the scores and the draw of Courier's 92 French title for example. 1993 was the year both were closest to their best together IMO. Courier spanked Bruguera when they played in Rome, but Bruguera got Courier at the big one at the French. IMO though Courier had an off day in that final and watching it I think prime Bruguera v prime Courier on clay that Courier would win more meetings than Bruguera on clay. I know some might disgagree on that though of course.

    I do think Courier had more big wins to win his titles on clay than Bruguera though. Both had some but Courier had more.

    Federer is a different time than either so harder to compare. His consistency over time and longevity on clay is outstanding though, and already easily surpasses both. He plays in an era of the one virtually unbeatable clay courter, yet does not (and has few other opportunities other than Nadal) have many quality wins on the surface. So a tough comparision.
     
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  13. AndrewD

    AndrewD Legend

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    You're kidding, aren't you? No Pat Cash and no Mats Wilander. That's just ridiculous.

    Mats Wilander won 2 Australian Opens on grass - against top competition (won his first by beating McEnroe and Lendl), got to the quarters of Wimbledon 3 times and had a 5-1 Davis Cup record on grass.

    Pat Cash had a career seriously hindered by injury but he still managed to win Wimbledon once, be runner-up at the Australian Open (on grass) plus 2 Quarter-finals and have a 24-4 Davis Cup record on grass.

    Krajicek (one Wimbledon win, one quarter and one semi-final) is just a blip on the radar compared to Cash and Wilander and neither Agassi nor Ivanisevic deserve to be rated above them.
    Nadal is playing in a hideously soft era and, regardless of his success, he just doesn't rate above any of the guys I've mentioned.

    Seriously though, any list that only looks at Wimbledon success when it rates grass-court players is pretty hopeless.
     
    #13
  14. Cenc

    Cenc Hall of Fame

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    i put in no order however i dont think fed is any better grasscourter than edberg
     
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